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[Eddie-Griffin]

Here’s an example of 3M sitting on shelves.

http://[URL]https://www.neogaf.com/threads/ps4-passes-63-3-million-shipped-as-of-june-30.1414015/

[/URL]

Not sure what the big deal is, Xbox numbers are still good.

That's not 3 million on the shelves, that's sony shipping 3 million to retailers.

On the shelves means they have been sitting unsold on the shelves for an extended period of time.

I don't know why this is confusing to people, the 900k on the Xbox One were literally sitting on shelves, people were still selling launch editions months after launch, piles of consoles on the floor in Mediamarket, and even in the US, Microsoft had to deal with that stock first. They had to make an excuse for their previous report of selling every console they could ship when people dug into their reports and saw 3 million sold only of the 3.9 million shipped, that stock was there at least until Titanfall.

 

[El Pistolero]

This sounds more likely, we know it's selling better than previous Xbox consoles so nicely done my friend

PS5 at 22 millions...vs XS at 20 millions...
Nah...

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I've been online since the 90s and its always bickering about sales that never actually makes a difference. Good on you for thinking these threads about sales matter.

You asked why sales matter, not about the opinion about the discussion in this thread.

 

[Ezekiel_]

Ampere's numbers make sense.

Prior gen was 2:1, so this is in line with that, and considering supply issues for PS5.

 

[bentanchorbolt]

You asked why sales matter, not about the opinion about the discussion in this thread.

I'm not going to split hairs with you. Have a good one.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

That's NPD, are you saying NPD can't be trusted?
eedar.com

EEDAR is not NPD. EEDAR is part of the same group of companies but it is usually for estimates and isn't the actual tracker, that's why EEDAR isn't the focus of NPD threads because NPD threads are from actual tracking directly from the core company. Another issue with EEDAR is they are trying to estimate international sales, which NPD directly doesn't do and focuses primarily in NA, and a few other countries. Back then that was something new they were expanding on too.

This is why your chart had the PS3 ahead of the 360, despite both companies reporting sales numbers in reverse order in that same holiday period. Also, international sales are not entirely accurate.

Unless Sony and Microsoft were lying, that shows EEDAR was wrong. However, given the Xbox One's deep fall, i can see that 20 million being plausible because by the end of 2015 whatever international momentum it had was long gone outside of Canada and Mexico. So i can see that number being plausible.

But answering your previous question again, I stopped at August 2015, so I'm not sure why you brought up 20 million in December?

PS5 at 22 millions...vs XS at 20 millions...
Nah...

17-20 million.

 

[bitbydeath]

That's not 3 million on the shelves, that's sony shipping 3 million to retailers.

On the shelves means they have been sitting unsold on the shelves for an extended period of time.

I think this is where the confusion is coming in, they’re the same thing. If you can buy it, it’s sitting on shelves and with retailers.

Eg. These have been shipped by Microsoft but aren’t yet sold to customers.

 

[nominedomine]

I think the shock comes from people that live in the US and just assume that it's like that for the rest of the world.

Maybe in the US people are lining up to buy Xboxes in bulk but it ain't be like that anywhere else.

 

[Mr Moose]

EEDAR is not NPD. EEDAR is part of the same group of companies but it is usually for estimates and isn't the actual tracker, that's why EEDAR isn't the focus of NPD threads because NPD threads are from actual tracking directly from the core company. Another issue with EEDAR is they are trying to estimate international sales, which NPD directly doesn't do and focuses primarily in NA, and a few other countries. Back then that was something new they were expanding on too.

This is why your chart had the PS3 ahead of the 360, despite both companies reporting sales numbers in reverse order in that same holiday period. Also, international sales are not entirely accurate.

Unless Sony and Microsoft were lying, that shows EEDAR was wrong. However, given the Xbox One's deep fall, i can see that 20 million being plausible because by the end of 2015 whatever international momentum it had was long gone outside of Canada and Mexico. So i can see that number being plausible.

But answering your previous question again, I stopped at August 2015, so I'm not sure why you brought up 20 million in December?



17-20 million.

You should tell them that.




You didn't provide any source for your numbers.

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

I think this is where the confusion is coming in, they’re the same thing. If you can buy it, it’s sitting on shelves and with retailers.

it's not the same thing, i gave an example you conveniently skipped about what the unsold stock did to the Xbox One and negative consequences of it. You can't just make up your own definition different from what everyone understood clearly in 2014. No one was making the comparison you are. Everyone knew that it was an issue, and it proved to be an issue when MS had to work to sell those consoles and had a bunch of launch inventory on the floors months later.

You know no one was talking about shipments to retailers on delivery, it was the fact they were unsold for months that was the issue back then.

You should tell them that.

You're tweets didn't disprove my point, they aren't NPD the core company, they were apart of the companies under it.

EEDAR also tried to predict international sales when that was a newer thing, as NPD was mostly for NA sales and still is. Not much coming out of EEDAR these days.

 

[adamsapple]

PS5 at 22 millions...vs XS at 20 millions...
Nah...

I think Series sales/shipped to sale is comfortably at or above 15m if I were to take a conservative guess.

 

[Mr Moose]

You're tweets didn't disprove my point, they aren't NPD the core company, they were apart of the companies under it.

EEDAR also tried to predict international sales when that was a newer thing, as NPD was mostly for NA sales and still is. Not much coming out of EEDAR these days.

Still waiting for your source...

Yeah no shit, they literally say that they changed to NPD Games and that changed to NPD Group. Did you read the Tweets?
Click this eedar.com

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Still waiting for your source...

Yeah no shit, they literally say that they changed to NPD Games and that changed to NPD Group. Did you read the Tweets?
Click this eedar.com

Yeah, and still no charts from them about gaming happening much now or before the change. They aren't the tracker.

You still haven't even answered the original question, what does you bringing up 20 million units in December have to do with me estimating there were 15 million Xbox Ones aold in August using the sources in the OP? You have constantly avoided that question.

You are arguing me back and forth for what reason? The OP goes over the steps.

Xbox One was nearing 10 million early November, sold 1.2 million in Nov US alone, sold 1.3 million December US alone. Assuming 2 million from those thread estimate world wide, that puts the Xbox One between the 13-13.5 million in January.

I then made an estimate that the Xbox on sold at least 2 million between January and August 2015, based on the monthly NPD thread here and using a similar ratio for ROTW.

Now explain to me why you brought up 20 million sold by December. Still hasn't been explained, what does that have to do with what I posted for August?

 

[kirby007]

Seeing as Ampere is paid by Sony insiders ( read: jason ) its their job to make MS look bad

 

[Mr Moose]

Yeah, and still no charts from them about gaming happening much now or before the change. They aren't the tracker.

You still haven't even answered the original question, what does you bringing up 20 million units in December have to do with me estimating there were 15 million Xbox Ones aold in August using the sources in the OP? You have constantly avoided that question.

You are arguing me back and forth for what reason? The OP goes over the steps.

Xbox One was nearing 10 million early November, sold 1.2 million in Nov US alone, sold 1.3 million December US alone. Assuming 2 million from those thread estimate world wide, that puts the Xbox One between the 13-13.5 million in January.

I then made an estimate that the Xbox on sold at least 2 million between January and August 2015, based on the monthly NPD thread here and using a similar ratio for ROTW.

Now explain to me why you brought up 20 million sold by December. Still hasn't been explained, what does that have to do with what I posted for August?

Because that's the number I could find for 2015, which is why I am asking for your source for those.
https://gamerant.com/xbox-one-sales-10-million-units/
Those shipped numbers are your source? I thought this topic was about sold-through numbers, my mistake.

 

[jm89]

Seeing as Ampere is paid by Sony insiders ( read: jason ) its their job to make MS look bad

Jason schreier?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Because that's the number I could find for 2015, which is why I am asking for your source for those.
https://gamerant.com/xbox-one-sales-10-million-units/
Those shipped numbers are your source? I thought this topic was about sold-through numbers, my mistake.

The Neogaf numbers in the OP are sold through, not sure why you skipped over them.

 

[kikii]

boxonex does 4k while seriesS struggle to handle 1080P, we live in weird times

 

[Mr Moose]

The Neogaf numbers in the OP are sold through, not sure why you skipped over them.

The close to 10M number is shipped, the NPD sold through numbers for December don't tell us the whole story. I wish they were more open with their numbers and NPD ranking games by $... Want to know the numbers sold not the $.

boxonex does 4k while seriesS struggle to handle 1080P, we live in weird times

Wrong thread?

 

[Ezekiel_]

Seeing as Ampere is paid by Sony insiders ( read: jason ) its their job to make MS look bad

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

The close to 10M number is shipped, the NPD sold through numbers for December don't tell us the whole story. I wish they were more open with their numbers and NPD ranking games by $... Want to know the numbers sold not the $.

and November.

They tell us what the floor is, that's all we need in order to determine how good or bad the Ampere quote is. If Xbox One was already above or near 13 million by January 2015, than by August it had to be even further, and since we know from Microsoft that the Xbox Series consoles are ahead of the Xbox one and 360, it makes the 13.8 way too low.

Yes we don't know the exact number it's at because Microsoft won't tell us, and NPD switched to revenue instead of units years ago. Only for a special report, or a Matt tweet that goes into units do we know what units are of anything. Microsoft of course won't give us anything either, not sure if that's Phil's fault or Don's fault though.

 

[Kagey K]

Microsoft of course won't give us anything either, not sure if that's Phil's fault or Don's fault though.

Neither it's Satyas fault.

MS used to be a toxic place to work because divisions used to compete against each other and the results were all numbers based.

Satya came in and eliminated number reporting to clean it up and make the divisions less hostile towards each other.

 

[bitbydeath]

it's not the same thing, i gave an example you conveniently skipped about what the unsold stock did to the Xbox One and negative consequences of it. You can't just make up your own definition different from what everyone understood clearly in 2014. No one was making the comparison you are. Everyone knew that it was an issue, and it proved to be an issue when MS had to work to sell those consoles and had a bunch of launch inventory on the floors months later.

You know no one was talking about shipments to retailers on delivery, it was the fact they were unsold for months that was the issue back then.

I’m still not seeing the difference here?
There’s Shipped, Sold but what’s the third differentiator in specific terms?

 

[Eddie-Griffin]

Neither it's Satyas fault.

MS used to be a toxic place to work because divisions used to compete against each other and the results were all numbers based.

Satya came in and eliminated number reporting to clean it up and make the divisions less hostile towards each other.

That's what was reported in some cases, however, Xbox still ran on numbers for sometime after he was installed as CEO, and he was in charge when Microsoft was fudging windows 10 numbers through an aggressive forced installation update that pissed many people off.

 

[nominedomine]

boxonex does 4k while seriesS struggle to handle 1080P, we live in weird times

They overcomplicated things this gen to try and close the gap with PlayStation just to find themselves in pretty much the same place they were before but now having to carry the Series S around with them for the rest of the generation. What are they going to do when Sony shows up with a PS5 Pro, they'll release another console?

 

[FritzJ92]

They overcomplicated things this gen to try and close the gap with PlayStation just to find themselves in pretty much the same place they were before but now having to carry the Series S around with them for the rest of the generation. What are they going to do when Sony shows up with a PS5 Pro, they'll release another console?

Are you assuming Microsoft isn’t working on a pro version?

 

[nominedomine]

Are you assuming Microsoft isn’t working on a pro version?

Nope, I'm just predicting handling 3 consoles at the same time is going to be a mess, not to mention that they would have to scale games all the way from 4TF to whatever the Series X Pro will be.

 

[lh032]

EXPECTED.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Price raise will help, Sony nice like that.

 

[Tiago Rodrigues]

Price raise will help, Sony nice like that.

You think Sony will stop selling everything they can produce until 2023? Lmao ok...

 

[buenoblue]

Xbox is winning though

 

[Topher]

Seeing as Ampere is paid by Sony insiders ( read: jason ) its their job to make MS look bad

I think Series sales/shipped to sale is comfortably at or above 15m if I were to take a conservative guess.

Shipped to retailers, probably. Sold through, debatable.

 

[Sanepar]

Series s/x will not even be close to 360 sales in the end.

If a crap console like xbox one sold 50 millions, series s/x can go close or beat 360.

23-26 Microsoft will have so many games ready.

 

[John Wick]

I hate to break it to people that are clinging to Game Pass being the Sony killer. I love Game Pass but so far it hasn't made a significant dent in PS sales or it's PS+ subscription count. It is not like it is a new service that just launched. It has been out for what? Five years now?

Haven't you heard it's Kryptonite for PS5.

 

[kirby007]

If a crap console like xbox one sold 50 millions, series s/x can go close or beat 360.

23-26 Microsoft will have so many games ready.

the failure rate isn't high enough

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I hate to break it to people that are clinging to Game Pass being the Sony killer. I love Game Pass but so far it hasn't made a significant dent in PS sales or it's PS+ subscription count. It is not like it is a new service that just launched. It has been out for what? Five years now?

I dont think too many people care about whether or not GP takes over console gaming. It's simply a good option for gamers who like sub plans where you can get it dirt cheap with promos. Who doesn't like good value and deals?

It's like someone comparing whether NF, Disney or Hulu are gaining or losing ground against each other. Who cares.

 

[nominedomine]

If a crap console like xbox one sold 50 millions, series s/x can go close or beat 360.

23-26 Microsoft will have so many games ready.

If MS was selling a crappy console like you suggest for the past 9 years then it makes it really hard to set up the stage for it's successor to be successful.

You can't show up mid-gen, when everything has already been established as if nothing that happened before mattered. That is a terrible plan.

 

[DarkMage619]

I dont think too many people care about whether or not GP takes over console gaming. It's simply a good option for gamers who like sub plans where you can get it dirt cheap with promos. Who doesn't like good value and deals?

It's like someone comparing whether NF, Disney or Hulu are gaining or losing ground against each other. Who cares.

It's nice to have a service that regularly gets new games to play and let's people try games they over wise would have never tried. It a fantastic service no matter how many people sign up to it or competiting services.

 

[MScarpa]

Warriors still fighting for their beautiful plastic boxes I see. Besides that, glad everything is selling well. Not like we didn't already know this but Back to some MMA. Good luck guys.

 

[Sanepar]

If MS was selling a crappy console like you suggest for the past 9 years then it makes it really hard to set up the stage for it's successor to be successful.

You can't show up mid-gen, when everything has already been established as if nothing that happened before mattered. That is a terrible plan.

This gen is different. Nothing is all set.

They turned the table too late last gen. Xbox one first hardware and the idea around the console was failure.

They will have more than 30 studios after activision deal. It is impossible to no be relevant with that.

 

[nominedomine]

It is impossible to no be relevant with that.

We'll see.

 

[DaGwaphics]

It's nice to have a service that regularly gets new games to play and let's people try games they over wise would have never tried. It a fantastic service no matter how many people sign up to it or competiting services.

Plus they've recently spent close to $80b to make it more interesting for us in the future, kind of makes the early years of the service a moot point.

 

[kikii]

The close to 10M number is shipped, the NPD sold through numbers for December don't tell us the whole story. I wish they were more open with their numbers and NPD ranking games by $... Want to know the numbers sold not the $.

Wrong thread?

nah, Series S is kinda cheat, i do wonder how many Series X's is sold, prolly 3mil

 

[reinking]

I dont think too many people care about whether or not GP takes over console gaming. It's simply a good option for gamers who like sub plans where you can get it dirt cheap with promos. Who doesn't like good value and deals?

It's like someone comparing whether NF, Disney or Hulu are gaining or losing ground against each other. Who cares.

Sure, I agree. I even said I love Game Pass. My post was in context to the post I was replying to.

 

[solidus12]

VGChart shows somewhere between 22 mil vs 16 mil

None of it matters since MS wont release official numbers and its all estimates anyhow

https://www.vgchartz.com/article/45...22-sales-comparison-charts-through-august-13/

They (Amper) gotta be wrong
Because I've heard that Xbox is outselling PS5 worldwide:

 

[rickybooby87]

Posting for the new page again, it was tracking 12m + in January. It is very unlikely it has only sold 1.8m units since then. Ampere's numbers are off.

Unfortunately MS will probably never reveal official numbers so let the gif party continue.

Im sure it’s tapered off since then. Literally every big box store I visit has 3-4 XSS on the shelf. I personally think the numbers are a little higher and, xbox will continue to sell well until it hits that 40-60 million units sold range which seems to be the ceiling.

 

[Airbus Jr]

After god of war ragnarok the numbers will skyrocket

 

[FritzJ92]

Nope, I'm just predicting handling 3 consoles at the same time is going to be a mess, not to mention that they would have to scale games all the way from 4TF to whatever the Series X Pro will be.

Weren’t they currently handeling x1,X1S,X1X,XSS,XSX?

 

[Rykan]

After god of war ragnarok the numbers will skyrocket

Doubt it. System remains sold out everywhere, GoW or not. Lack of games isn't what's holding sales back.

 

[SoloKingRobert]

so now VGchartz matters?