-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Bafta changes criteria for two awards to increase diversity
- Thread starter Enzom21
- Start date
- Status
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
Just so it's clear:
That is insane to me. It's one thing to support diversity financially but something else to limit awards like this, it seems extremely excessive.
*edit* nvm, just read the first post. Are those categories major ones?
Still seems extreme. Why the hell should for example a film about a small white british town by a small studio not be eligible as Outstanding British Movie just because?
*edit* nvm, just read the first post. Are those categories major ones?
Still seems extreme. Why the hell should for example a film about a small white british town by a small studio not be eligible as Outstanding British Movie just because?
Messofanego
Banned
This should be in OP, too.
"The requirements only apply to the Outstanding British Film or Outstanding Debut by a British Writer, Director, or Producer awards."
Anyway, that means more films will be set in London, heh. Mike Leigh and Ken Loach are probably sweating
Wonder if they have to send a photo of their whole team to see if there is racial diversity. Or have movies about LGBT. It should be interesting. I'm sure there will be filmmakers who don't care about getting an award and just continuing the status quo.
BTW this is timed nicely with Ava Duvernay's recent tweet for doing a mannequin challenge video of her diverse team for A Wrinkle In Time:
https://twitter.com/ava/status/798269610483032064
"The requirements only apply to the Outstanding British Film or Outstanding Debut by a British Writer, Director, or Producer awards."
Anyway, that means more films will be set in London, heh. Mike Leigh and Ken Loach are probably sweating
Wonder if they have to send a photo of their whole team to see if there is racial diversity. Or have movies about LGBT. It should be interesting. I'm sure there will be filmmakers who don't care about getting an award and just continuing the status quo.BTW this is timed nicely with Ava Duvernay's recent tweet for doing a mannequin challenge video of her diverse team for A Wrinkle In Time:
https://twitter.com/ava/status/798269610483032064
This should be in OP, too.
"The requirements only apply to the Outstanding British Film or Outstanding Debut by a British Writer, Director, or Producer awards."
Anyway, that means more films will be set in London, heh. Mike Leigh and Ken Loach are probably sweating
BTW this is timed nicely with Ava Duvernay's recent tweet for doing a mannequin challenge video of her diverse team for A Wrinkle In Time:
https://twitter.com/ava/status/798269610483032064
Oh thank god, I couldn't stand another movie featuring my back yard of Chester in the North West. 2012's The Wedding Video was quite enough of that
MikeHattsu
Member
It would be if they have enough diversity in the crew.
Messofanego
Banned
Or highlighting a failing in getting diverse crews. If most people in the team are white, that shows not enough people of colour are being hired to be gaffers, lighters, audio designers, digital intermediate editors, etc.
The last British film that I saw was diverse even in the cast was from this year with Remainder.
SuperEpicMan
Banned
From this, my understanding would be, that it is a combination of both on-screen and off-screen talent which is taken into account. I was initially worried it would be strictly character diversity, which for some movies isn't particularly feasible (i.e. Moon).
Messofanego
Banned
I don't know, do we really need more movies about small white British towns getting awards? I thought Mike Leigh and Ken Loach got that covered.
Also, it's about off-screen talent too. You can have a diverse team and still shoot on location in a small white British town.
Ventilaator
Banned
I can think of plenty of reasons to have an all white cast, but zero for why the entire production crew would be completely white males, so hitting the requirements shouldn't be a problem.
I can understand the production staff diversity requirement, but I'm with you that there can be plenty of valid reasons to have a movie starring entirely a single race of people: historical pieces, or based on remote communties in various places in the world, for example.
I get what they're trying to do, but it feels like the wrong way of doing it. It's a culture change needed, not a potentially unfair enforcement.
Edit: I see the "two of" now.
You're not to decide what movies we need or don't lol.
Yes but that still doesnt change anything if people as a small studio from their hometown make a movie. This seems to be targeting the wrong people - small "white productions" - instead of the bigger studios who have way more power in that regard(outreach and hiring possibilities).
It doesn't have to be the cast, diversity in crew counts too.
It's all there, in the OP.
The Maverick
Member
There's going to be a lot of concerned people who didn't read the OP shortly.
I appreciate the thought behind this, but this is the sort of initiative that pushed people towards Trump / Brexit. The intention is right but the optics are just horrendous.
The UK is 87% white, there are vast swaths of the country where that number is even higher than that so the only place you could realistically set your movie are London, Birmingham and maybe Leicester?
The UK is 87% white, there are vast swaths of the country where that number is even higher than that so the only place you could realistically set your movie are London, Birmingham and maybe Leicester?
This was my impression.
The UK is 87% white with other ethnicities being highly localised. If you're outside an area where there's diversity chances are your entire crew and your actors are going to be white.
I don't see what's wrong with this, they aren't saying you have to have a diverse cast necessarily. The production as a whole needs to tick a couple of these boxes:
On-screen characters and themes, senior roles and crew, industry training and career progression, and audience access and appeal to underrepresented audiences.
Seems fine to me. If in 2016 you are still filling 95% of cast, crew and production roles with white men then you probably need to be given a kick in the arse.
On-screen characters and themes, senior roles and crew, industry training and career progression, and audience access and appeal to underrepresented audiences.
Seems fine to me. If in 2016 you are still filling 95% of cast, crew and production roles with white men then you probably need to be given a kick in the arse.
CyclopsRock
Member
It's tough, though. I work for a London film company and I'd say 95% of our freelance on-set guys (gaffers, grips etc) are white (and most of those are British); That's just who is out there, applying. Our edit and CG teams are more diverse by a pretty significant way, but actually on set?
Edit: I wrote 95% here without seeing Ushojax's post above, btw.
Cultural changes don't just happen though. If the enforcement of this is unfair, let's bitch about that and keep it under scrutiny and keep hammering at it until the enforcement standards are fair and that in turn feeds into a cultural shift.
'The potential enforcement could maybe be unfair so fuck it, let's not do it and hope culture changes by itself'? Not good enough.
Introducing a benchmark we can work on and refine? Cool.
Equally I really hope people realise we're not just talking race here but gender also.
MikeHattsu
Member
Diversity also covers disability, age, gender and people from lower socioeconomic
groups as far as I can see from the BFI leaflet:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org...fi-diversity-standards-leaflet-2016-05-11.pdf
Oh, and also an option for 'substantial local employment' for the crew thing if you're outside of greater London.
John Kowalski
Banned
Good.
Yup, people are going to miss (or intentionally overlook) this part and not realise the industry behind-the-camera has an even bigger problem
lol no
1. Brexit and Trump didn't happen because of the fight for inclusivity. And even if it did, are you really suggesting it should stop to appease moronic, bigoted people?
2. Read the statement. This can be demonstrated behind-the-camera too.
If you don't think this is a big problem, I'll happily take you into Soho House so you can see for yourself how much of this industry is just upper middle-class white men.
And it doesn't change anything in regards to small productions. The UK is 87% white. If I'm someone from a small white town and form a studio with my white friends to make a movie about said town I am automatically disqualified for an award because of race.
Again, targeting the wrong people. It could easily adjusted if there was an exception for exsmple for certain budget limits, studio sizes or sth similar
Charles Brandon
Member
Hmmm. Looks very subjective to me. What does diverse mean specifically in this context? is it x% non-white or does each minority have to be represented? Does this cover sexuality and gender too? And disability? What if your production has a very small cast and crew? How is appeal to an unrepresented audience judged? What is an unrepresented audience?
For big studio pictures this shouldn't be a problem because there is enough staff and HR to accommodate these demands. For smaller, regional, indie productions I can see this being extremely problematic to the point that many small films will probably just choose not to be considered.
For big studio pictures this shouldn't be a problem because there is enough staff and HR to accommodate these demands. For smaller, regional, indie productions I can see this being extremely problematic to the point that many small films will probably just choose not to be considered.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
It'll be difficult for smaller teams, I think. If you're a 5 man indy team and you hired totally at random from the British population, there's only a 50% chance you'd have picked someone who wasn't White British. But for the bigger filmhouses (anything ~25+ people), this is absolutely great and I hope it prompts some real changes.
EDIT: Oh, saw this:
Makes it super easy to fill. If you don't have a single woman (50% of the population), member of the working class (~33% of the population), a single person classified as having some sort of disability or impairment (~19%), non-white British person (~13%) of the population, or non-heterosexual person (~6%)... I'm pretty okay with you not getting the award.
EDIT: Oh, saw this:
Makes it super easy to fill. If you don't have a single woman (50% of the population), member of the working class (~33% of the population), a single person classified as having some sort of disability or impairment (~19%), non-white British person (~13%) of the population, or non-heterosexual person (~6%)... I'm pretty okay with you not getting the award.
Stallion Dan
Member
Rules made by people in seats who have no clue about the real world.
Many debut is gonna be low budget and sourced locally, so good luck being diverse in majority white areas.
Many debut is gonna be low budget and sourced locally, so good luck being diverse in majority white areas.
Riposte
Member
http://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-38313381 (better article)
What do the last two mean, exactly?
What do the last two mean, exactly?
If you can form a studio and produce a movie worthy of qualifying for the BAFTA awards this applies to, and we're probably talking at least 100 to 200 employees bare minimum for the production (not just the internal development team, but any extras, financiers, technicians, people you consult et al), and get it so 100% of the best candidates for the job are white males you just happen to know in your friend circle, and you can show evidence that you didn't seek to recruit them through a formal interview process, then yes.
You'd also be breaking statistical odds far higher than the 87% figure you cite.
Com Truise
Member
If that 87% white number is true then everything about this just seems bizarre as fuck. Maybe save your diversity requirements for countries that are actually diverse lol.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
Baftas going to be empty then.
Is the UK 87% male too?
MikeHattsu
Member
Looks like there's an allowance for smaller crews:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org...fi-diversity-standards-faqs-2016-05-11-v1.pdf
Maybe they could slightly tweak their name to make it more appealing the following year.
NAFTAS? NAMBLA's?
All for this, even if it's only the two main British categories.
Nobody's forcing you to make your film this way, but if you want the PRIVILEGE of being recognised by this particular celebrated academy of artists, then you need to offer privilege to others (who probably would be overlooked normally due to a lingering racial division among many aspects of society, deliberate or not).
Nobody's forcing you to make your film this way, but if you want the PRIVILEGE of being recognised by this particular celebrated academy of artists, then you need to offer privilege to others (who probably would be overlooked normally due to a lingering racial division among many aspects of society, deliberate or not).
Gotta love the backflips people are already doing to make this appear unworkable. Apparently films are being made that only ever require 5 white friends from the middle of england? And apparently there isn't a bunch of other qualifying factors that have nothing to do with race?
Diversity doesn't just mean include more black/asian people.
Audience access and appeal to under-represented audiences - so if the entire cast and crew was white, middle-class men, they could still qualify if the story was about something under-represented, like living with a disability or something.
Diversity doesn't just mean include more black/asian people.
Industry training and career progression - this industry has a massive problem with low paid entry-level jobs going to friends and family, or otherwise connected people. Assistant/runner jobs being horsetraded, making it very difficult for someone with no connections to start working on-set. So they could qualify for one of these awards by demonstrating they went outside of the industry bubble to find runners for example.
Audience access and appeal to under-represented audiences - so if the entire cast and crew was white, middle-class men, they could still qualify if the story was about something under-represented, like living with a disability or something.
Charles Brandon
Member
Well that's good.
I dunno. I think the devil here is in the detail. Do you have to have a selection of people from all different genders/sexual preferences/races/classes/abilities or is it enough just to have some people that are not middle-class, straight, able-bodied, white men. If the latter, then does just hiring women allow you to meet the criteria? Or just hiring people from a lower socio-economic group (and how the fuck is that judged?)?
Its hard to understand how these criteria can be set without making them either ridiculously prescriptive or so easy to game that they may as well not exist.
One should always old out hope.
Messofanego
Banned
The "significant change" will bring in more people from minorities, women, people with disabilities and from lower socio-economic groups, Bafta said.
Not just accounting for white people. UK is quite diverse, compared to other European countries and USA. It's just not as reflected in the arts and can afford to be, hence this decision.
MikeHattsu
Member
It's not just about race. It's also about disability, gender, age, sexual orientation and people from lower socio-economic groups.
For diversity in the crew:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org...fi-diversity-standards-leaflet-2016-05-11.pdf
And for people from lower socio-economic groups:
http://www.bfi.org.uk/sites/bfi.org...fi-diversity-standards-faqs-2016-05-11-v1.pdf
The UK seems to be significantly more white than the US? Are there higher numbers in disabled or lower socioeconomic economic groups?
This is not just about race, though. Diversity covers a lot of underrepresented groups. See above.
Charles Brandon
Member
It is. Although there is a big difference between the major cities (as diverse as anywhere on earth) and the smaller towns, villages and the countryside (99% white).
- Status