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[LazyParrot]

So according to 80% of the comments here these games are only good because they are "hard"....

Sounds like a shit reason for a game to be good tbh.

Mechanically, Souls games aren't hard at all. They're challenging in that they require you to carefully consider your environment, your enemies, and your own abilities before you take action. If you can do that, you won't be having any issues. I tend to see combat in Dark Souls more like a series of puzzles than some sort of skill-based challenge. Think hard enough, and you can find a way trivialize almost any encounter.

 

[FunkMiller]

Then don't play the game? I don't get it. If you only have an hour or 2 a week, then there are literally hundreds of games you probably haven't played yet that are easier and just as enjoyable. Why would you go out of your way to choose the game where half the point (or more) is the challenge, when you don't have the time and/or patience to overcome said challenge? The game isn't for you.
Imagine buying a roguelike and bitching that there is permadeath, because you don't have time for that shit? Or buying a metroidvania and bitching that you don't have time to get items/abilities to unlock areas, so there should be an option where it is all unlocked from the getgo?
It doesn't make any goddamn sense.

"I haven't got time to play a hard game" is clearly a bullshit bit of reasoning that gets employed, because it sounds better than "I'm not good at these games". Utterly disingenuous to suggest that having limited time to play has anything to do with it. If you have limited time, you can't play any games. You make time to play games if you're a gamer.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

If you don't have time and aren't interested in the gameplay, watch an LP and skip through whatever you don't like.

 

[Dr_Salt]

So according to 80% of the comments here these games are only good because they are "hard"....

Sounds like a shit reason for a game to be good tbh.

If you actually made a little effort to read the thread you would know that difficulty is a core ingredient of the game design. The games are not hard for the sake of being hard or for the memes.
How hard is this to understand for some people?

 

[gamer82]

For people who have a life and don’t have a lot of time to replay the same section over and over again.

It would be great to have an easy setting so I can actually enjoy a Souls game for once.

Ninja Gaiden Black has an easy setting if you died 3 times in a row or something like that. It never took away from the original experience

And please don’t tell me about coop MP. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

yes for the likes of me, the only reason i haven't dared to try the souls games, my stress levels are bad enough and inventory management kinda puts me off.

it does look a nice remaster so i may just be tempted with spiderman for launch , if preorders don't fall through

 

[Von Hugh]

Being good at DS and shitting on other lesser gamers is my only source self-confidence, so no.

 

[-MD-]

Play a different game if this one is too hard for you.

 

[NT80]

Put a map system in there. When I first played Demon Souls the lack of a map was really annoying. I hated getting lost in the shitty areas particularly the poison swamp.

 

[Geki-D]

It wouldn't really work because of the way online works in these games. Can't have people leveling on an easy mode then invading normal games.

 

[T8SC]

"I haven't got time to play a hard game" is clearly a bullshit bit of reasoning that gets employed, because it sounds better than "I'm not good at these games". Utterly disingenuous to suggest that having limited time to play has anything to do with it. If you have limited time, you can't play any games. You make time to play games if you're a gamer.

What a load of shite.

 

[lame gag1990]

If you don't want to learn how to play a game, just watch the thing on YouTube.

 

[The Hamburglar]

CAnt believe this thread has gone on for so long. Is this reee and people crying about accessibility now?

 

[gamer82]

if the game ever gets an easy mode, the devs and publisher are doing it to sell more copys and thats up to them, all these people on here bashing that what you can do is simply ignore the option in the menu.

Your super hard macho insta death mode still stands, the game wants to sell to a wider range of people to make money back on next gen it's called options talk about entitled.

telling people to get good etc lol god loves keyboard warriors .

flame away pass the salt when your done.

 

[mindfreak191]

There's an easy mode already, don't know what you're talking about?

 

[Mihos]

if the game ever gets an easy mode, the devs and publisher are doing it to sell more copys and thats up to them, all these people on here bashing that what you can do is simply ignore the option in the menu.

Your super hard macho insta death mode still stands, the game wants to sell to a wider range of people to make money back on next gen it's called options talk about entitled.

telling people to get good etc lol god loves keyboard warriors .

flame away pass the salt when your done.

I bet your chili taste like ketchup

 

[FukuDaruma]

I wonder if a game like Last of Us, gameplay wise, had just the "Grounded" difficulty... would it automatically be a better game?

Then there would be the same people saying "but it's easy", "git gud" and feeling good with themselves just because they can enjoy what you can't.

The pure fact that the game experience will be exactly the same for the people that like it hard, and the only thing is that they don't want you being able to enjoy the game your way says a lot.

 

[NahaNago]

I hope it does have an easy mode.

 

[TheSHEEEP]

At least call it "Game Journalist Mode" or people would get confused.


Seriously, though:
Not everything needs to be accessible to everyone. Only the developers have a say in how easy or hard they want to make their game. It's their vision and their project, this isn't some crowdfunding project owing something to someone.

 

[Digity]

Some people here need to go play Escape From Tarkov. People on the EFT subreddit always asking to make things easier, the fans and the devs just laugh. The draw to something like that is how punishing it is, there is no better feeling than making it out alive with all your gear plus a full backpack. If that game was made easier to accommodate shit players it wouldn't be half as good as it is. The devs have made a conscious decision to make the game punishing and it's better for it.

Now something like EFT is far more punishing than Demon's Souls and it isn't something I play but I can certainly see the appeal it has. Keeping everyone on an equal level and forcing the player to overcome tough obstacles is what the game is about.

 

[steve_o_3000]

I’m creeping up on 40. I’m finishing up my master’s degree and have 3 kids in high school. I have never beat a Soul’s game. This will be my first. Shit looks amazing.

 

[Randall365]

Souls games are about the thrill of beating a boss after learning their moves for ages/getting ultra lucky on the second try; learning an area and navigating it with ease after the initial nightmare it appeared to be and the satisfaction of developing your character so you can take on areas that destroyed you initially.

how would an easy mode work - let you smash a boss after mashing R1 first time, or give you way more Health so normal enemies are no threat and any new area is just an easy speed run to the boss?

I mean, there’s not much game left after that - certainly no satisfaction. If you just want the story, watch YouTube.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

No OP

DS needs new content.

 

[SkylineRKR]

Easy mode is fine.

I played the game a lot, and its sequels as well, but for newcomers an easy mode with forgiving respawns or something is never a bad choice. You don't have to select it.

 

[Self]

I wonder if a game like Last of Us, gameplay wise, had just the "Grounded" difficulty... would it automatically be a better game?

No, because it wasn't designed around that difficulty in the first place. It's an extra, on top. Do you people really belive that a harder game immediately passes for 'Souls quality'? That's so naiv pal.

 

[FukuDaruma]

No, because it wasn't designed around that difficulty in the first place.

It was designed around ALL the available difficulty choices. The same would be true for any souls games if they decided to include any, but it seems they are the only games where difficulty can't be adjusted for different levels because... some obscure reason that doesn't apply to any other game, ever.

Do you people really belive that a harder game immediately passes for 'Souls quality'? That's so naiv pal.

So if any souls game stop being that hard for some people it automatically retracts quality from it? sure, specially for those that would never play in "non hard" modes anyway.

People good at souls games seem to enjoy the most the inability of others of enjoying the game. It's not that the games would change ANYTHING for them, they just don't want others to be able to enjoy them.

 

[fersnake]

no

edit: just go watch someone good play the game on youtube.

 

[Self]

People good at souls games seem to enjoy the most the inability of others of enjoying the game. It's not that the games would change ANYTHING for them, they just don't want others to be able to enjoy them.

Do you really think that 'souls people' want you to fail? They want you to overcome the obstacles the creators designed for you... for good reasons.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Souls games are about the thrill of beating a boss after learning their moves for ages/getting ultra lucky on the second try; learning an area and navigating it with ease after the initial nightmare it appeared to be and the satisfaction of developing your character so you can take on areas that destroyed you initially.

how would an easy mode work - let you smash a boss after mashing R1 first time, or give you way more Health so normal enemies are no threat and any new area is just an easy speed run to the boss?

I mean, there’s not much game left after that - certainly no satisfaction. If you just want the story, watch YouTube.

Hyperbolic much, ain't we?

What about a middle ground between "impossible" and/or "frustrating" for some people that just lack the necessary skills (eye to hand response, etc) and "mash R1 to kill boss at first try"?


Honestly, what I enjoy the most about soulsborne games are the Art. Both visual and sound/music. Youtube/Twitch quality is a piece of shit for that. And whenever possible, I like to play on PC, in 3D using Reshade+SuperDept3D and enjoy the immersion. As the OP pointed out, I don't have the time/patience/skill to frustratingly repeat the same passages over and over again. So I end up making my own "easy mode" using cheats, trainers, ... but it would be better if the devs design each difficulty level.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Do you really think that 'souls people' want you to fail? They want you to overcome the obstacles the creators designed for you... for good reasons.

FACT is: any other difficulty mode would not change ANYTHING for you or any of the other people that don't want the devs to put choices.
It's YOU that don't want the creators to give others what they want, even when that would NOT affect your experience in ANY way.

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

yes for the likes of me, the only reason i haven't dared to try the souls games, my stress levels are bad enough and inventory management kinda puts me off.

it does look a nice remaster so i may just be tempted with spiderman for launch , if preorders don't fall through

There isn't any inventory management. You lose souls (currency) if you die, but you have a chance to get them back. Even if you lose them permanently, though, eventually you realize that losing them isn't that big of a deal and you can usually make them back pretty easily.

Basically, if you're afraid of losing your souls, cash them out and you won't have to worry about it while you explore.

 

[Self]

FACT is: any other difficulty mode would not change ANYTHING for you or any of the other people that doesn't want one.

It changes the creators intend. The creator doesn't want YOU to play the game. But YOU...

 

[FukuDaruma]

It changes the creators intend. The creator doesn't want YOU to play the game. But YOU...

Yeah, that pathetic excuse doesn't fly at all, because here we are discussing if the devs may put an easy mode to appeal to a wider audience, but it's you who does NOT want it for others. So it isn't about the "creators intent" at all, but about you feeling as a special soulflake.

 

[Saruhashi]

For people who have a life and don’t have a lot of time to replay the same section over and over again.

It would be great to have an easy setting so I can actually enjoy a Souls game for once.

Its always interesting to see how other people engage with videogames.

For example, I don't really understand people who build up a massive backlog of games. Or why it's even framed as a "backlog".

This is a new one though.

"I've got better things to do than play videogames, I have a life, so the developers should just make the game have an easy mode so I can get it over with."

OP, videogames are not supposed to be like a job or a chore, you know.

There would come a point where I'd question why you even bother?

You could not buy the game at all and save 70 bucks. No way I am believing that you'd see the game has easy mode and so you spend money on it knowing it will be over and done with easily and quickly.

What ever happened to the single player "game" aspect of this medium? Do so many people really not care for the idea of "beating the game"?

Maybe that's why the console announcements are all about that "interactive storytelling" and actual gameplay footage is thin on the ground.

Every game wants to be like an HBO series first and maybe you can have some gameplay too. Not too difficult though. Wouldn't want to keep the player from their more important things. Gotta have that story mode so that the player doesn't need to interact with that pesky gameplay.

The usual arguments and explanations for why Souls games have a singular difficulty have already been done.

It just seems to me like there are far too many consumers who just don't like any kind of challenge because they see the games as something to blast through, check it off the backlog and then post on social media "OMG just beat Demon's Souls, those graphics, amirite?"

I wonder if we'd even have a "Souls" genre if the original had come with an easy mode.

 

[False]

That thread tag! I'm dying!

If a game's difficulty is part of it's design philosophy, it stays.

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Yes, I demand an easy mode. I already beat Demon's Souls and Bloodborne by myself. I have nothing to prove. I really don't care if it disables trophies or whatever, I never check those. I don't even know where they are or how many I have.

I feel sorry for all these people who needs the challenge to feel good about themselves. I play lots of games on easy or very easy. So what?

 

[Mossybrew]

Mechanically, Souls games aren't hard at all. They're challenging in that they require you to carefully consider your environment, your enemies, and your own abilities before you take action.

This is disingenuous because what you are describing is in fact a form of difficulty. Anyone that tries to argue that these games aren't "hard" is just playing with semantics. By any way we can judge modern videogames, the Souls games are a challenging genre. And they should be, there is huge variety in games and challenging games definitely have their place. I don't care for this genre, but even I would say these game don't need an "easy" mode because that undermines one of the basic foundations of what these games are. If like me, you just don't have the patience for this style, hey, there are thousands of other games to play, let these masochists have their particular brand of fun here.

 

[TintoConCasera]

I would say that Souls games arent THAT hard. It's just that games in general are way, way easier than they used to be.

 

[Saruhashi]

Souls games are about the thrill of beating a boss after learning their moves for ages/getting ultra lucky on the second try; learning an area and navigating it with ease after the initial nightmare it appeared to be and the satisfaction of developing your character so you can take on areas that destroyed you initially.

how would an easy mode work - let you smash a boss after mashing R1 first time, or give you way more Health so normal enemies are no threat and any new area is just an easy speed run to the boss?

I mean, there’s not much game left after that - certainly no satisfaction. If you just want the story, watch YouTube.

Yeah, I mean a Souls boss that I can beat on my 1st, 2nd or 3rd attempt is basically not a good boss fight. You should be going through the fog expecting to lose as you discover all the bosses moves and tells and then experiment with your own style.

I imagine that some of the Easy Mode Mafia would break down crying after they lose for the 3rd or 4th time. "Waaaa, I don't have time for this, I'm supposed to be fluffing my wife's boyfriend, reeeee".

I feel like ideally an action game like this, considering game mechanics and their complexity and the game's setting and atmosphere, should provide enough challenge that you actually feel some kind of accomplishment after working to master a level and/or boss fight.

 

[KiNeMz]

If you have kids. You should be setting a good example.

 

[Dr_Salt]

So if any souls game stop being that hard for some people it automatically retracts quality from it? sure, specially for those that would never play in "non hard" modes anyway.

People good at souls games seem to enjoy the most the inability of others of enjoying the game. It's not that the games would change ANYTHING for them, they just don't want others to be able to enjoy them.

This is one of the dumbest things I've read here.
I wouldn't call myself a souls expert but I did beat Sekiro and DS3 and I remember enjoying it so much that I bought DS3 for a friend because I wanted him to experience the fucking amazing rush you get when you beat one of those hard ass bosses.

 

[Saruhashi]

Yeah, that pathetic excuse doesn't fly at all, because here we are discussing if the devs may put an easy mode to appeal to a wider audience, but it's you who does NOT want it for others. So it isn't about the "creators intent" at all, but about you feeling as a special soulflake.

Wow. Some people really care so passionately about not even having a handful of games every generation that are challenging with no difficulty options.

Like you can't even let people have the 3 From Software games per generation without screeching that they are exclusionary or whatever.

Its like there is such a strong jealousy felt towards people feeling a sense of accomplishment that so many turn to "let's shame them over thinking completing a game is an achievement and push for their games to have an easy mode, that'll teach them."

I get it to some extent. I've sat in changing rooms and listened to rival teams celebrating and getting all the congratulations while we tried to come to terms with not being good enough. I've narrowly missed out on qualifying times at running events and the other dudes wives and girlfriends congratulated them while my wife has to drive us back home and say "maybe next year". It sucks and it's tough to take.

What I've never thought of is just mocking and deriding the concept of achievement and then trying to fundamentally change the concept of challenge and achievement so that everyone is equal. Why not just drive the marathon course in a car? I just want to see the course! Why not end every match in a draw? Let's just give everyone a trophy!

Nothing worse than a sore loser and honestly this bullshit over difficult games just fucking REEKS of sore loser.

"Look at those Gamers thinking they are King of the World cos they beat that hard game! How pathetic! Let's put an easy mode in every game and see how smug they feel when anybody can beat the game with no effort at all."

Loser Mentality.

 

[KiNeMz]

Its always interesting to see how other people engage with videogames.

For example, I don't really understand people who build up a massive backlog of games. Or why it's even framed as a "backlog".

This is a new one though.

"I've got better things to do than play videogames, I have a life, so the developers should just make the game have an easy mode so I can get it over with."

OP, videogames are not supposed to be like a job or a chore, you know.

There would come a point where I'd question why you even bother?

You could not buy the game at all and save 70 bucks. No way I am believing that you'd see the game has easy mode and so you spend money on it knowing it will be over and done with easily and quickly.

What ever happened to the single player "game" aspect of this medium? Do so many people really not care for the idea of "beating the game"?

Maybe that's why the console announcements are all about that "interactive storytelling" and actual gameplay footage is thin on the ground.

Every game wants to be like an HBO series first and maybe you can have some gameplay too. Not too difficult though. Wouldn't want to keep the player from their more important things. Gotta have that story mode so that the player doesn't need to interact with that pesky gameplay.

The usual arguments and explanations for why Souls games have a singular difficulty have already been done.

It just seems to me like there are far too many consumers who just don't like any kind of challenge because they see the games as something to blast through, check it off the backlog and then post on social media "OMG just beat Demon's Souls, those graphics, amirite?"

I wonder if we'd even have a "Souls" genre if the original had come with an easy mode.

We wouldn't be having this discussion, about a remake on a PlayStation console that's coming out in 2020 if this game had an easy mode.

 

[zaanan]

I got you, fam. Here’s your easy mode:


You’re welcome

 

[DrumNBassDanTTV]

The option would be good imo, i mean its supposed to be difficult but i have mates that really want to play the dark souls games and just give up, for ppl like that it would be ideal so they can enjoy and finish the game (despite it been opposite of how a souls game should be)

 

[Tchu-Espresso]

How does the lack of Easy Mode hurt anyone?

Give your head a wobble.

 

[Knitted Knight]

I've had this argument soo many times it's crazy so I rather not bother anymore. People will have their opinions on it and stick with it cause reasons. It's what it's.

I would however love to see it happen just to see how individuals would react to it.... as an isolated case. You're still getting Elden Ring anyway so...

 

[Omnipunctual Godot]

Oh is it meant to be one of those annoyingly hard games?

I’ll probably give it a miss then. The fleeting times I have to play games should probably be spent on something else.

It's not annoyingly hard. The challenge is actually incredibly fair.

 

[Saruhashi]

So according to 80% of the comments here these games are only good because they are "hard"....

Sounds like a shit reason for a game to be good tbh.

I disagree here.
Challenge can be a great reason for a game to be good.
Especially if I have to work hard to get good.

I mean there's a reason why you wouldn't want to race a toddler in a 10k foot race. There's a reason why you wouldn't want to play tennis against a child.

The game is no good if you are guaranteed and easy win.

Seems like a lot of people can't handle the idea of not having a way to trivialise the game so they can coast their way to the end credits.

 

[DunDunDunpachi]

Give your head a wobble.

Why is the complaint supposed to be respected in one direction but not the other?

I don't gripe when games or genres don't cater to me. I simply don't buy them.

 

[FukuDaruma]

Wow. Some people really care so passionately about not even having a handful of games every generation that are challenging with no difficulty options.

Like you can't even let people have the 3 From Software games per generation without screeching that they are exclusionary or whatever.

Its like there is such a strong jealousy felt towards people feeling a sense of accomplishment that so many turn to "let's shame them over thinking completing a game is an achievement and push for their games to have an easy mode, that'll teach them."

I get it to some extent. I've sat in changing rooms and listened to rival teams celebrating and getting all the congratulations while we tried to come to terms with not being good enough. I've narrowly missed out on qualifying times at running events and the other dudes wives and girlfriends congratulated them while my wife has to drive us back home and say "maybe next year". It sucks and it's tough to take.

What I've never thought of is just mocking and deriding the concept of achievement and then trying to fundamentally change the concept of challenge and achievement so that everyone is equal. Why not just drive the marathon course in a car? I just want to see the course! Why not end every match in a draw? Let's just give everyone a trophy!

Nothing worse than a sore loser and honestly this bullshit over difficult games just fucking REEKS of sore loser.

"Look at those Gamers thinking they are King of the World cos they beat that hard game! How pathetic! Let's put an easy mode in every game and see how smug they feel when anybody can beat the game with no effort at all."

Loser Mentality.

Comparing a personal videogame experience to sports competitions, changing rooms, your wife's disappointment with you...

That collection of absurd stupidities, mental fantasies and straw man fallacies are so not validly related to anything been said that almost don't even deserve an answer.

No one can say what it is that you lose with those games having different difficulty options, because there is NOTHING. Just that pathetic "soulflake club" exclusivity feeling. The people asking for different difficulty options are not the ones that want to subtract anything from your experience. On the contrary, it is you that want to prevent others from enjoying the game in different ways, that again, does not affect your experience, at all.

As you clearly stated, your "sense of accomplishment" is not about you beating the game on Hard mode, but about preventing other people enjoying it easier.
That dependency on other's experiences for you to be able to feel "accomplishment" and "a winner" is just pathetic.

Can you beat Bloodborne blindfolded and using a dance mat controller with your ass? congratulations! good for you, "accomplished winner"! guess what, normal people that want difficulty options doesn't care how you enjoy your game. This isn't a competition, and their enjoyment of the game doesn't depend on yours.