Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
Quote me when I said "old games, don't matter" or is that just another in a long list of lies?
Just bump some old console launch DF threads and see it for yourself.
Quote me when I said "old games, don't matter" or is that just another in a long list of lies?
Just bump some old console launch DF threads and see it for yourself.
The fact that it's so important to you, says a lot about youThought not, liar.
Anyway nearly all the games were patched like Immortals to match the PS5 versions or like Dirt 5 to end up superior.
Why you're so upset about the Xbox performance being increased says something about you.
Do you really think they are doing commissioned work without explicitly saying so? And you thinking that sets a dangerous precedent? What if you are wrong? xDBut do you really believe they were randomly playing Control - again - with all the other stuff they could be doing, and felt a smoother frame-rate ? because I suspect they were either doing commissioned work for Xbox to assess the improvement in the Xbox firmware, or they've been commissioned to do this to re-promote Control.
It sets a dangerous precedent for them and makes all their analysis opinion redundant beyond the 10mins after they do a video IMHO
Since when does certification look for non-critical performance issues? They don't. Neither platform holders certification has been incompetent nor developers are. The first don't care about performance when it's above a low limit and the second ones can choose to release a game when they think it's good enough to do it. There's nothing of being wrong, immoral or incompetent. You know you can always make things faster, you have to place a line somewhere.With Nintendo, PlayStation and Xbox have full certification processes for games releasing, if the results of DF are fleeting, what purpose does their channel even have beyond fuelling wars?
Or are we to say that platform holders certification has been incompetent since the dawn of DF? Or if not, are we saying the people that make the games and choose to release, after passing certification are wrong, immoral or incompetent - like it appeared in the Cyberpunk situation?
Do we know that? If it's a system-wide level like they are speculating how are you so sure that's not affected?And no Hitman flower field is not effected by this, unless patched.
The fact that it's so important to you, says a lot about you
But then again it's not totally surprising since you had a complete break down over the launch comparisons.
The flower field seems to be a classic GPU bottleneck. Transparency effects are exponentially more demanding with increases to resolution. Xbox pushes 44% more pixels than the PS5, which means the flower field demands much more than a 44% increase in performance.Do we know that? If it's a system-wide level like they are speculating how are you so sure that's not affected?
We don't, however it's most likely simply Direct X issues with draw calls. The flowers were dynamic, which means the object is drawn one by one, as at instance of the object (so you can apply physics to it) and that is very well documented disadvantage of the Direct X architecture. And why I am that certain? Well as I said in OG Hitman 3 DF thread, I was part of the team who did Kingdom Come and to make our grass interactive, there was some real magic done by our sw engineers there. I was explaining how it works in our case in the aforementioned thread.Do you really think they are doing commissioned work without explicitly saying so? And you thinking that sets a dangerous precedent? What if you are wrong? xD
Since when does certification look for non-critical performance issues? They don't. Neither platform holders certification has been incompetent nor developers are. The first don't care about performance when it's above a low limit and the second ones can choose to release a game when they think it's good enough to do it. There's nothing of being wrong, immoral or incompetent. You know you can always make things faster, you have to place a line somewhere.
Do we know that? If it's a system-wide level like they are speculating how are you so sure that's not affected?
IIRC you started spamming the forum with misleading comparison pictures in every thread you could before the ban hammer.I didn't have a breakdown at all,
Another figment of your imaginationIIRC you started spamming the forum with misleading comparison pictures in every thread you could before the ban hammer.
But sure, not a break down
But do you really believe they were randomly playing Control - again - with all the other stuff they could be doing, and felt a smoother frame-rate ? because I suspect they were either doing commissioned work for Xbox to assess the improvement in the Xbox firmware, or they've been commissioned to do this to re-promote Control.
It sets a dangerous precedent for them and makes all their analysis opinion redundant beyond the 10mins after they do a video IMHO, as they are admitting that every game or game update they've ever tested - all the way back to the 360/PS3 gen - is unlikely to yield the results they pour pages of text nit picking on, because every time a new firmware arrives on a console, every game needs tested again.
Testing games at launch and after game updates tells the consumer something, to inform the quality of work by the developer. Selectively testing a game after a system update feels like a pointless endeavour as the next system update could just as easily alter that result, and creates a factorial to infinity level workload to provide gamers with accurate info about their game's current performance on their consoles.
On PC yeah, I can't recall any other console that had game improvement from a system level update. Please correct me if I'm wrong.Suddenly you care about old/cross-gen games. Before this when PS5 had the better overall performance in almost every game so far you acted like a clown. “Old games, don’t matter”.
I really don’t like the idea to re-re-revisit a game based on this, as if we haven’t see enough of this mediocre game already.
Games improve on every device with system level updates, api or driver level. It’s nothing new or shocking.
Another figment of your imagination
Hate to be the one to break this to you but the performance mode after the latest patch has a higher resolution on XSX as per NXgamer and VG tech found that the PS5 version can drop to 900p and hit 41fps
Yeah I agree it's pretty bad, glad I've got VRR
Luckily the average framerate is in your shots, "really bad" is between 56 and 59fps in those shots, VRR takes care of that easily for me. All while running at higher resolution in performance mode and having more crowds and cars as NX Gamer said. He also says loading hitches are worse on PS5, loading times are worse on PS5, reflections and transparencies are worse as well so lower settings on PS5.
DF, NXGamer and everyone else and their mothers: "PS5 performs better overall".
Riky: "let me post this screenshot 20 times to prove them wrong".
Since you are effectively calling me a liar.. I just had to go and prove it.
It wasn't long ago you must have a selective memory..
Like I said, spamming the forum with total BS about CyberPunk 2077 in several threads like someone who had totally lost it. Aka a breakdown.
Love this post.. summed your madness up perfectly.
So guess I'm right... again.
Before Readpop(?) bought Eurogamer, DF was officially spun off into its own company AFAIR and on their website at the time to officially setup, Xbox (and PlayStation too IIRC) were part of their testimonial customers. It was official info from DF at the time, so I assume they still do work for Xbox, and probably PlayStation and Nintendo too, as they are still in business.So what is you issue exactly? The fact they found better performance?
do you have any evidence to back up your claims of being commissioned to do this? Or just wild accusations?
On PC yeah, I can't recall any other console that had game improvement from a system level update. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Cyberpunk, the PS4 and Xbox One game that has no native PS5/Series patch? So not what we're talking about here at all then.
Your obsession with me and another user is quite alarming, I think you need help, you literally follow us around the forum no matter what the subject.
I posted in this thread about DF saying performance has increased on Xbox for Control and probably some more games, this seems to have triggered a couple of people as seen by recent posts, obviously like I've said before they can't even cling to those launch comparisons anymore, must be tough.
Before Readpop(?) bought Eurogamer, DF was officially spun off into its own company AFAIR and on their website at the time to officially setup, Xbox (and PlayStation too IIRC) were part of their testimonial customers. It was official info from DF at the time, so I assume they still do work for Xbox, and probably PlayStation and Nintendo too, as they are still in business.
Before Readpop(?) bought Eurogamer, DF was officially spun off into its own company AFAIR and on their website at the time to officially setup, Xbox (and PlayStation too IIRC) were part of their testimonial customers. It was official info from DF at the time, so I assume they still do work for Xbox, and probably PlayStation and Nintendo too, as they are still in business.
You are saying it yourself to demonstrate how redundant the work is, as it is "non-critical" and the developers and the platform holder have said the experience is good to go.Do you really think they are doing commissioned work without explicitly saying so? And you thinking that sets a dangerous precedent? What if you are wrong? xD
Since when does certification look for non-critical performance issues? They don't. Neither platform holders certification has been incompetent nor developers are. The first don't care about performance when it's above a low limit and the second ones can choose to release a game when they think it's good enough to do it. There's nothing of being wrong, immoral or incompetent. You know you can always make things faster, you have to place a line somewhere.
Do we know that? If it's a system-wide level like they are speculating how are you so sure that's not affected?
That's kind of interesting since I said something similar to you the other week about harassing me.
Still sore about that huh?
At least I was able prove you had a complete breakdown over some comparisons and leading to a ban.
That's really sad.
And yet you managed a total breakdown leading to a ban.It would be hard to have a breakdown when you've got Series X and VRR,
You're quite rightYou two are embarrasing yourself.
Crazy if the tools thing ends up being completely true and Series X has seen improvements across the board due to them!
...THE TOOOOLZZZZZ Have arrived?
When you factor in that the info is like fish & chips - only good while fresh - the very need for faces off is pointless, and reductively become warring material, no?
Some users sadly love to use comparisons as console war material. For a lot of them it's the only topics that they actively participate in.Has it ever not been warring material, though? Sure, there might be a small niche of afficionados out there, who sees it as a technical walkthrough of how any given platform performs - but for the vast majority it only serves to fuel their need for warring.
Yup, but that doesn't mean something couldn't be done at the driver level that helped in that scenario. We simply didn't know, what's why I was asking.The flower field seems to be a classic GPU bottleneck. Transparency effects are exponentially more demanding with increases to resolution. Xbox pushes 44% more pixels than the PS5, which means the flower field demands much more than a 44% increase in performance.
Well, that means that it would be possible to improve performance all across the board by improving DX performance. Do we know that's not the case?We don't, however it's most likely simply Direct X issues with draw calls. The flowers were dynamic, which means the object is drawn one by one, as at instance of the object (so you can apply physics to it) and that is very well documented disadvantage of the Direct X architecture.
I'll look into that, thanks for posting it.And why I am that certain? Well as I said in OG Hitman 3 DF thread, I was part of the team who did Kingdom Come and to make our grass interactive, there was some real magic done by our sw engineers there. I was explaining how it works in our case in the aforementioned thread.
Yup, it has always been. I would remove metric comparisons from everywhere and only leave the technical talk.When you factor in that the info is like fish & chips - only good while fresh - the very need for faces off is pointless, and reductively become warring material, no?
Yes and when it’s paid work they have to promote it as an advertisement. Look at their past paid work for both Sony and Microsoft it states when the video starts it’s paid forBefore Readpop(?) bought Eurogamer, DF was officially spun off into its own company AFAIR and on their website at the time to officially setup, Xbox (and PlayStation too IIRC) were part of their testimonial customers. It was official info from DF at the time, so I assume they still do work for Xbox, and probably PlayStation and Nintendo too, as they are still in business.
it is locked, that's the issue. it unlocks as soon as you open up Photo mode, and in photo mode the Xbox hangs usually above 48fps, which would be more than enough for almost every VRR capable TV to adjust for. and even if it goes below that, set your Xbox to 120hz and your VRR window gets dropped as low as 24hz thanks to frame doubling.
the developers should give an option to unlock the framerate in graphics mode so that users with VRR screens can actually use that mode. it's barely playable in its current state. that 30fps feels so sluggish it's unbearable.
Ah gochya, slowly caught up to this thread lol
I thought it felt way worse than like 45-55fps, that makes sense. But for some reason it also feels worse than locked 30fps typically in this mode, something about this engine is weird. All the lights get really smeary at lower fps too with motion blur off.
Eh, you might be being a bit too harsh here. They did after all admit and were up front about issues with the tools that pretty much everyone here laughed as 'excuses'. I do feel bad for people who had to suffer through months of uneven performance in games (AC Valhalla, DMC and CoD's 120 fps mode, and Control were some of the worst offenders), but MS paid for it too by getting a lot of bad press for their most and more importantly "more" powerful console at the start of the gen. They say first impression is the last impression, and I think MS has probably paid for it and hopefully learned their lesson.This is what I have been saying it, and it's not really a "driver" it's more like a "compiler" for the...alright that's just semantics. But basically what is called "performance stack".
It was same situation at late 2016 with X1X and KC: D was build initially on nightly builds of XDK, that's why the Xbox version was probably worst one at the release.
But still, year later almost, it's really as if these consoles should have been released this year.
Embarrassing for MS and what is worse, happened again.
And no Hitman flower field is not effected by this, unless patched.
All in all I really really like XSX, but just looking at official info released by MS with insider builds suggest, that software is wonky at best. And if you don't believe me, see how many games does not support Quick Resume, even at the system level it should not be problem to freeze/pause any vm. They are simply doing still something around memory architecture and games which are larger in RAM than certain threshold simply does not support this stuff. My take, does not have to be truth, but I have some info obviously.
I hope this info is not under NDA, but meh, I was told, not that I actually see with my own eyes release notes of GDK.
The PS5 has a better fillrate than the XSX. It's not simply about the res. If they had the same res and just as many transparency effects the PS5 would perform better.The flower field seems to be a classic GPU bottleneck. Transparency effects are exponentially more demanding with increases to resolution. Xbox pushes 44% more pixels than the PS5, which means the flower field demands much more than a 44% increase in performance.
I believe it's harsh but fair. Lets say that the organisation should be better, because yes they catch a flak, but also they threw devs under the bus with their own "black box" (basically the graphics API) and my message is more emotionally charged, because how much more work (I know crunch and shit, but this was boring crunch, that's the worst, where you are not in fault but the provider) it took to made it run so, so back then. I apologized if inappropriate.Eh, you might be being a bit too harsh here. They did after all admit and were up front about issues with the tools that pretty much everyone here laughed as 'excuses'. I do feel bad for people who had to suffer through months of uneven performance in games (AC Valhalla, DMC and CoD's 120 fps mode, and Control were some of the worst offenders), but MS paid for it too by getting a lot of bad press for their most and more importantly "more" powerful console at the start of the gen. They say first impression is the last impression, and I think MS has probably paid for it and hopefully learned their lesson.
I am just happy that they continued to improve and have resolved the performance issues without the need for patches. I was not expecting it and as someone who didnt buy their tools excuse, I am glad to be proven wrong. I am a big tflops whore, and it's good to see tflops matter once again. This is personal crusade but tflops are tflops and I really dislike how people on these boards have stopped using actual specs to discuss hardware. Now we can finally see just how well these games perform and we should see a more 1:1 difference in performance per pixels in pS5 and XSX games.
That's taken from latest alpha skip-ahead release notes... which is obviously tip of the iceberg.Known Issues
We understand some issues have been listed in previous Xbox Insider Release Notes. These items aren’t being ignored, but it will take Xbox engineers more time to find a solution.
We’re still tracking these known issues:
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- Pins related to the new Edge browser will not work if you decide to remove your console from the Xbox Update Preview.
- Workaround: Pins should be deleted and re-added.
Guide
- We’ve received reports that controller input is not working when a game is launched.
- Workaround: Reboot the console and relaunch the game.
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- We are investigating reports of the audio mixer being unable to adjust chat/game audio levels.
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- Some users have reported that the icon for a disc-based title is not appearing on the dashboard.
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- Workaround: Some users have reported a simple reboot resolves the issue. If that doesn’t work, a factory reset should get the console back up and running again. Instructions can be found here under “Reset using your console” and selecting the “Reset and keep my games & apps” option. If you do end up performing a factory reset please submit feedback after completing this step via Report-a-problem.
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Doubtful. The fillrate surplus would probably not alleviate the teraflop surplus.The PS5 has a better fillrate than the XSX. It's not simply about the res. If they had the same res and just as many transparency effects the PS5 would perform better.
Yeah, those are some weirdly amateur issues from a literally trillion dollar software company. These consoles ship once every 7 years so I agree they should launch without these basic issues. I was just bitching about the state of VRR in the other Sony thread. It's simply unacceptable.I believe it's harsh but fair. Lets say that the organisation should be better, because yes they catch a flak, but also they threw devs under the bus with their own "black box" (basically the graphics API) and my message is more emotionally charged, because how much more work (I know crunch and shit, but this was boring crunch, that's the worst, where you are not in fault but the provider) it took to made it run so, so back then. I apologized if inappropriate.
However it's not MS alone, let's say Sony had some initial software issues with rest mode, no VRR, only beta access to SSD, etc.
Plus obviously this on MS side:
That's taken from latest alpha skip-ahead release notes... which is obviously tip of the iceberg.
As a consumer, I have very little issues (outside of CEC, does not work almost 90% of the time, worked perfectly with X1X), but as a dev... I have my... comments.
Yeah the word is probably "disappointment", because the potential for the better performance was and clearly is there, the problem is that MS pretty heavily depends to AMD SW engineers for the whole graphical API, Sony has mostly their own ones, which consists of people employed in Santa Monica, ND, etc... Which shows. Obviously AMD is present, but it's not driving force.Yeah, those are some weirdly amateur issues from a literally trillion dollar software company. These consoles ship once every 7 years so I agree they should launch without these basic issues. I was just bitching about the state of VRR in the other Sony thread. It's simply unacceptable.
As a developer, I have to blame management on this. This kind of stuff is always due to lack of resources which is tied to the budget. I have no idea why MS of all companies cant afford to give their software team all the resources they need but to finally figure out performance issues 9 months after launch is not acceptable. Especially since they shipped with known issues so it's not like this stuff kind of sneaked up on them. Surprisingly, almost all of Sony's brand new UI features worked on day one. So credit where credit is due even if they cant get VRR to work.
Like I said, it's a shame that people who bought these consoles day one got a sub optimal experience playing games like AC which had some crazy consistent drops to mid 40s. I can imagine the hysteria if AMD launched a 10 tflops 6600 XT and a 13 tflops 6700 xt, and the 6600xt was a locked 60 fps while the more expensive and more powerful GPU sat around 45 fps.
EDIT: haha I went hunting for a Valhalla comparison of that infamous torch stress test, and found this meme I had made around launch. So I guess it was the tools after all lmao.
Would love to see DF test all these games to see if the performance has scaled back up to at least PS5 levels if not higher.
I gotta say this gen has been a rollercoaster. First PS5 gets out tflopped by Phil Spencer then PS5 games start outperforming at launch. Then MS takes back the lead in some games, and now we are literally going back in time to retroactively win back those lost comparisons. What a twist.
Doubtful. The fillrate surplus would probably not alleviate the teraflop surplus.
But do you really believe they were randomly playing Control - again - with all the other stuff they could be doing, and felt a smoother frame-rate ? because I suspect they were either doing commissioned work for Xbox to assess the improvement in the Xbox firmware, or they've been commissioned to do this to re-promote Control.
It sets a dangerous precedent for them and makes all their analysis opinion redundant beyond the 10mins after they do a video IMHO, as they are admitting that every game or game update they've ever tested - all the way back to the 360/PS3 gen - is unlikely to yield the results they pour pages of text nit picking on, because every time a new firmware arrives on a console, every game needs tested again.
Testing games at launch and after game updates tells the consumer something, to inform the quality of work by the developer. Selectively testing a game after a system update feels like a pointless endeavour as the next system update could just as easily alter that result, and creates a factorial to infinity level workload to provide gamers with accurate info about their game's current performance on their consoles.
Digital Foundry said the opposite, it's quiet rare that it touches games without patches.Its pretty standard for firmware updates to try and improve performance, its not like MS have just invented the practice.
The games I see not support QR are typically those with online elementsThis is what I have been saying it, and it's not really a "driver" it's more like a "compiler" for the...alright that's just semantics. But basically what is called "performance stack".
It was same situation at late 2016 with X1X and KC: D was build initially on nightly builds of XDK, that's why the Xbox version was probably worst one at the release.
But still, year later almost, it's really as if these consoles should have been released this year.
Embarrassing for MS and what is worse, happened again.
And no Hitman flower field is not effected by this, unless patched.
All in all I really really like XSX, but just looking at official info released by MS with insider builds suggest, that software is wonky at best. And if you don't believe me, see how many games does not support Quick Resume, even at the system level it should not be problem to freeze/pause any vm. They are simply doing still something around memory architecture and games which are larger in RAM than certain threshold simply does not support this stuff. My take, does not have to be truth, but I have some info obviously.
I hope this info is not under NDA, but meh, I was told, not that I actually see with my own eyes release notes of GDK.
As we already knew, it's still up in the air though regarding general performance improvements.They say in this video that they are unaware of any previous OS update for a console ever doing this, so it's a unique situation.
The results will be interesting.
He/she is confused with standard firmware updates that improve platform stability etc This is new in the console space if it indeed improves performance across multiple titles.Digital Foundry said the opposite, it's quiet rare that it touches games without patches.
True however, there are games which had qr support and lost it after native patch. Or not having one in a first place, some games haven sort of on-off approach, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. However this is good for a future, let's say. Better memory management is what the consoles needs.The games I see not support QR are typically those with online elements
The fact that it's so important to you, says a lot about you
But then again it's not totally surprising since you had a complete break down over the launch comparisons.