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[Daneel Elijah]

I'm looking forward to Forza and Hellblazer to really show off the Series X mind, just like Flight sim. By all means make fun, if I'm wrong.

It is what happened for the PS3. Sony best studios used it well and gave us masterpieces. If Xbox can do the same it would be great. And as Xbox games will go to PC too no one will be left behind. Just that after games like Redfall and Halo Infinite it is hard to believe in them. For me at least. If you are wrong and the Series X does not have even one or two showcases in the next two years then Xbox is doomed. Nobody will laugh at it because we would have moved on I think.

 

[Rykan]

And teraflop is only a constituent of a GPU's horsepower to begin with. There are other throughputs but DF seem to intentionally avoid mentioning the other pieces of the power puzzle since the beginning of the generation.

This is a complete misrepresentation that only intents to fuel the “DF is biased!! Narrative.” which in itself is completely baseless and unfounded.

 

[Killjoy-NL]

If only Cerny would have explained how the PS5 was designed, tech "experts" like DF could've known this pre-release...

 

[twilo99]

It's all about the magical SSD.

That’s the only “generational” leap with the current consoles, the rest are marginal improvements.

 

[8BiTw0LF]

 

[Fbh]

We've certainly come a long way from the "SX will notoriously outperform PS5 in all games and Series S will offer literally the same performance and experience but at a lower resolution" narrative we got before this gen.

With more processing power,the team at Nintendo could've done more and improved the image quality.

But that's the thing, with more processing power the team at Nintendo might have added even more physics based mechanics.
99% of other AAA teams these days get more hardware power and they just use it to make the same types of games they've been doing for the last decade, but with nicer graphics and performance destroying ray tracing.

Games like TotK showed that the whole narrative that "devs just can't do more stuff with physics because of these damn jaguar CPU's" was always bullshit. It was never the hardware holding them back, it was the focus on graphics above everything else.

 

[Fake]

It seemed to matter a lot when PS4 had more than XB1.

8 GB GDDR5 vs 8 GB DDR3

Unless you live under some rock, even Microsoft rejected this stupid ideia of using DDR3 and made the Xbox One X using GDDR5 as PS4 started.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Looking back at mark cerny was clowned for saying teraflops don't matter

Cerny is the best exclusive Sony ever had
The gift that keeps on giving

 

[cireza]

That's one side of the marketing hyperbole this gen. "World's most powerful console" was the other.

Dumb in both cases.

 

[twilo99]

It is what happened for the PS3. Sony best studios used it well and gave us masterpieces. If Xbox can do the same it would be great. And as Xbox games will go to PC too no one will be left behind. Just that after games like Redfall and Halo Infinite it is hard to believe in them. For me at least. If you are wrong and the Series X does not have even one or two showcases in the next two years then Xbox is doomed. Nobody will laugh at it because we would have moved on I think.

Yes, ultimately how well optimized the software is matters a lot, so the game developers hold the key to unlocking whatever potential performance the box has.

I think Forza Horizon and Gears show some of that pretty well, especially for the series s since that one requires the most in terms optimization.

Let’s see what else they come up with, but I’m guessing things will peak on the next two years or so. Forza Motorsport should be a good start.

 

[Investor9872]

Series S redeemed?

Series S main issues wasn't TF. It's the amount of RAM memory that's the issue.

 

[onQ123]

I really did try to talk to you people

If Microsoft don't use just the TFLOPS to compare Xbox Series X GPU to the Xbox One & Xbox One X why is everyone else using it to compare it to PS5 ?

They only claim a 4-6X raw GPU advantage over Xbox One while having 9X TFLOPS advantage , The triangles rate advantage is the part that bring it down to 4 -6X the raw GPU output & PS5 actually has the advantage in triangle & pixel fill rate so why do people keep using the Xbox Series X GPU...

www.neogaf.com

Is the Console GPU FLOPs era going the way of the Bit era? I for one welcome our new GB/s marketing overlord

Bits was so important in marketing until we reached 32-bits , for example Sony didn't make a big deal about PS1 being 32-bit even though that was the marking thing that was big in the 80's & 90's but it was probably the CDs that gave PS1 the marketing edge. Atari & Nintendo used 64 in their...

www.neogaf.com

 

[MasterCornholio]

Yep. And that's why DF is saying what they are saying. The power delta this gen has been largely irrelevant.

People like dealer set some expectations extremely high. Even Digital Foundry had high hopes for the Series X. But the reality ended up being very different.

 

[Insane Metal]

Have mentioned this for quite awhile but they really wont want to talk about TFs when the PS5 Pro launches as its going to look like a letdown

So do you think MS has a 'Pro' console in the works as well?

 

[shamoomoo]

Done more what? None of their vision was compromised save for the image quality and the textures. 60FPS would have been a great option though.

More enemies/variety,a livelier world, better effects and better animations.

 

[MasterCornholio]

So do you think MS has a 'Pro' console in the works as well?

Im guessing they do. It wouldn't make sense for Sony to only have a Pro console while Microsoft doesn't produce a competitor to it.

 

[RoadHazard]

You probably meaning transforms more vertices or FMA(Fuse, Multiply, Add), unless talking about the rarely used(in X1X/PS4 Pro) using of CUs to shade in compute shaders.

Even a straight comparison between 10TF and 20TF isn't necessarily true.

Nvidia GPU FP16 and FP32 are the same performance, whereas the (PS4's)PS5's ACEs count for async compute mean that its FP16 are closer to double its effective FP32 teraflops rate - say if used in the nanite pass of UE5 and some of the lumen stuff like the signed distance field calculations for coarse RT.

I mean, the GPU is also used for shading. I.e. combining textures, lighting, shadows, transparencies, etc, into a finished pixel. A more powerful GPU can push more pixels (i.e. higher resolution).

As for TF comparisons, I'm talking in terms of comparable architectures, like what we have in the XSX vs PS5.

 

[JimboJones]

This is a complete misrepresentation that only intents to fuel the “DF is biased!! narrative.”

Yeah but I'm not surprised with the op trying to misrepresent DF.

On paper there is an advantage and that's what they where looking for, just like on paper there is a huge SSD advantage on the PS5 but in the real world it doesn't amount to much difference.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

Could someone provide a spreadsheet with the specs of the Ps5 and Xbox Series X? I just realized I never read about it.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

Could someone provide a spreadsheet with the specs of the Ps5 and Xbox Series X? I just realized I never read about it.

PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X specs: CPU, GPU, storage and more compared

This is the essential PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X specs comparison: CPU, GPU, storage, backwards compatibility and more compared by Digital Foundry.

www.eurogamer.net

 

[twilo99]

Yeah but I'm not surprised with the op trying to misrepresent DF.

On paper there is an advantage and that's what they where looking for, just like on paper there is a huge SSD advantage on the PS5 but in the real world it doesn't amount to much difference.

The capabilities are very similar, it’s all about what the developers can do with it.

 

[REDRZA MWS]

The "tera"flop does matter, but it's not the whole story. Just because you have the most horsepower in your car, will not mean you can win all the races.

No, but you should have the tools and more room to “win the race”.

 

[Sleepwalker]

So do you think MS has a 'Pro' console in the works as well?

No but he has said he expects MS will release their next gen console earlier than the PS6 (as of now)

 

[twilo99]

PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X specs: CPU, GPU, storage and more compared

This is the essential PlayStation 5 vs Xbox Series X specs comparison: CPU, GPU, storage, backwards compatibility and more compared by Digital Foundry.

www.eurogamer.net

I remember all the speculation about that variable clock speed on the PS5.. do we now know if it continuously runs at max speed during full load?

I had no idea about the CU count, that’s all the rage with the latest AMD GPUs not having more CUs compared to RDNA2, but in this case here it makes no difference at all.

 

[UnNamed]

If teraflops don't matter what metric should we use?

Dragonball scale.

 

[jroc74]

Series S redeemed?

TIL these console only have a CPU.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Cross gen games....the gen that kept on delivering. But absolutely, TF didn't mean shit this generation.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I remember everything speculating about that variable clock speed on the PS5.. do we now know if it continuously runs at max speed during full load?

I had no idea about the CU count, that’s all the rage with the latest AMD GPUs not having more CUs compared to RDNA2, but in this case here it makes no difference at all.

Sadly no clear answer since. But no one complained since the lauch and I think that it was more of Cerny being prudent than a true problem. The variable part was more of a between two frames fast dip than a true slowdown that would require work to fix. And it was about managing power draw better( if the GPU is underutilized more power go to the CPU and vice versa). I may be wrong about it.

 

[jroc74]

That's good. I've never depended on TF to buy a GPU. I look at benchmarks comparing frame rates at specific resolutions. That's how I'll judge the Pro as well.



Actual gaming benchmarks.

Exactly, which is wild because I could have sworn thats what most use when comparing desktop gpu's.

I think the lesson is that the overall package matters, never just 1 spec.

And you will have ppl using the PS4 vs XBO as an example when again tf didn't tell the whole story.

 

[RoboFu]

I think that they both perform and are so closely the same that both consoles lack identity.

I wish someone would be brave enough the throw in some crazy proprietary graphical accelerator of some kind. I don’t know what it could be but that’s the point. Do something crazy and unexpected.

At one time I could tell you what console the game was on by just looking at a screen shot. Now days it could be on any of the new or last gen consoles.

 

[Snake29]

The first wave of games back at the launch was already a big blown in the 12 Teraflop face of MS and their fans. From the start, the PS5 already outperformed the XSX. After a few months of those releases, this whole "Tools" bullshit began.

But it’s been three years and i have not seen anything revolutionary inspired. It’s been the same old stuff from the ps4 era.

We have seen more interesting tech stuff on the PS5 then on the XSX.

 

[twilo99]

I think that they both perform and are so closely the same that both consoles lack identity.

I wish someone would be brave enough the throw in some crazy proprietary graphical accelerator of some kind. I don’t know what it could be but that’s the point. Do something crazy and unexpected.

At one time I could tell you what console the game was on by just looking at a screen shot. Now days it could be on any of the new or last gen consoles.

Yes, the difference is so marginal it doesn’t really matter.

That’s why those clowns at DF are splitting hairs just to put out their content for the fanboys to munch on … oh look at that 2 FPS dip.. unacceptable!

 

[twilo99]

The first wave of games back at the launch was already a big blown in the 12 Teraflop face of MS and their fans. From the start, the PS5 already outperformed the XSX. After a few months of those releases, this whole "Tools" bullshit began.

Outperformed it by how much exactly? Is it a meaningful difference? Are Xbox players robbed from some stunning visual experience that can only be had on the PS5?

Its all about the 3rd party developers utilizing the boxes properly, and they almost never do that for both brands.

 

[peish]

does ps5 really have an extra arm cpu with 512mb for OS tasks?

That makes ps5 have more memory and cpu than xsx...

 

[Neo_game]

SX has 20% bigger chip approx. So it is technically superior and more expensive. PS5 is more efficient and has less bottleneck so performance between them is more or less same. The biggest giveaway was when SX also using dynamic resolution. Many were saying PS5 will be dynamic or fps will be variable where as SX will maintain the res and fps.

 

[Aenima]

TF would only matter as a metric if the things being compared had the exact same architecture and specs. I find it weid how DF was pushing the TF narrative for so long being a tech site. When everyone use benchmarks on PCs and cellphones to measure a device performance.

 

[jroc74]

Digital foundry admits teraflops don't matter anymore after 3 years of this being pushed by them
This is fitting with the new pro consoles rumors coming don't rely on Teraflops

1:05:38



Looking back at mark cerny was clowned for saying teraflops don't matter

it does matter but it doesn't
you see cerny showed 2 GPUs with the exact same TF, he said he prefers one with lower CUs and higher clocks because it will be faster, while the bigger and slower GPU is hard to use all his slow CUs

The Road to PS5 is amazing, that is all. I hope Cerny keeps doing 'Road to' for PS home consoles.

Bottom line, both MS and Sony had specific design goals. Going forward I think it would be wise to not underestimate a device until we see real world results. From resolution to fps to graphics the PS5 has shown it can hold its own.

SX has 20% bigger chip approx. So it is technically superior and more expensive. PS5 is more efficient and has less bottleneck so performance between them is more or less same. The biggest giveaway was when SX also using dynamic resolution. Many were saying PS5 will be dynamic or fps will be variable where as SX will maintain the res and fps.

Beat me to it.

 

[Daneel Elijah]

I think that they both perform and are so closely the same that both consoles lack identity.

I wish someone would be brave enough the throw in some crazy proprietary graphical accelerator of some kind. I don’t know what it could be but that’s the point. Do something crazy and unexpected.

At one time I could tell you what console the game was on by just looking at a screen shot. Now days it could be on any of the new or last gen consoles.

Sony tried with the Cell. And it was hard for them because of it. Apple managed to create their own silicon but it took them more than a decade and have done so with the huge mobile market in mind. The console gaming market is small so it would be hard to do the same. It is true that the consoles lack identity compared to previous generations but the Dualsense is a clear differenciator that made the PS5 a clear jump from the PS4. Try going back, the DS4 feels weird to me. At least Sony also tries with the PSVR 2 to give some of that innovation that we lack those days in gaming.

 

[Snake29]

Outperformed it by how much exactly? Is it a meaningful difference? Are Xbox players robbed from some stunning visual experience that can only be had on the PS5?

Its all about the 3rd party developers utilizing the boxes properly, and they almost never do that for both brands.

They are robbed with false PR bullshit from the start, but the first benchmarks showed how they were just brainwashed by MS their buzzwords and their big mouth on twitter. CoD, Dirt 5, Valhalla etc already ran better on PS5 then XSX.

No it's not like their games looked like pixelated games, but it was funny to see all the crow eaters.

does ps5 really have an extra arm cpu with 512mb for OS tasks?

That makes ps5 have more memory and cpu than xsx...

The PS4 and Pro also had additional hardware for the OS and background tasks during restmode. The PS4 Pro DDR4 ram was 1GB and i don't know how many the PS5 has, maybe 2GB?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Console launch, when Xbox Series X has more TF than PS5.

DF: "Tera flops matter."

Before PS5 Pro's launch, amidst a strong possibility that there won't be an Xbox Series Pro.

DF: "Tera flops do not matter."

 

[OverHeat]

Tflops do matter flex’s 4090 rtx

 

[Mokus]

does ps5 really have an extra arm cpu with 512mb for OS tasks?

That makes ps5 have more memory and cpu than xsx...

Doubtfully. It's the first time I hear this since the PS5 specs were revealed.

 

[Freelance Yakuza]

I remember all the speculation about that variable clock speed on the PS5.. do we now know if it continuously runs at max speed during full load?

I had no idea about the CU count, that’s all the rage with the latest AMD GPUs not having more CUs compared to RDNA2, but in this case here it makes no difference at all.

I love this conversation because "Cu" is slang for Anus in Brazilian Portuguese.

 

[Thief1987]

Doubtfully. It's the first time I hear this since the PS5 specs were revealed.

?
There is a DDR4 512Mb chip, it's being used for OS and background tasks.

 

[HeisenbergFX4]

So do you think MS has a 'Pro' console in the works as well?

Nope and if they do literally no one knows about it

I do think they are going to start "next gen" way earlier than Playstation though

 

[damidu]

anyone with half a brain could see this coming,
also lol! its shills like df that tried to push the tf narrative in first place, then when things didnt pan out they came up with
more stupidity like "immature tools, lazy devz, bla bla"
they are finally coming around half a gen later.

 

[zeldaring]

We've certainly come a long way from the "SX will notoriously outperform PS5 in all games and Series S will offer literally the same performance and experience but at a lower resolution" narrative we got before this gen.



But that's the thing, with more processing power the team at Nintendo might have added even more physics based mechanics.
99% of other AAA teams these days get more hardware power and they just use it to make the same types of games they've been doing for the last decade, but with nicer graphics and performance destroying ray tracing.

Games like TotK showed that the whole narrative that "devs just can't do more stuff with physics because of these damn jaguar CPU's" was always bullshit. It was never the hardware holding them back, it was the focus on graphics above everything else.

Can't really compare TOTK to 99% of AAA games. look at Elden RIng for example it runs like crap on ps4. If devs are going for a realistic looking open world, and not cell shaded.,those physics would hurt performance and honestly they don't add much to gameplay unless your game is built around them like TOTK.

 

[nowifenolife]

Teraflops don't matter when it's like the difference between ps5 and x. Teraflops will matter whens it's like the difference between pro and x

 

[Honey Bunny]

Can someone catch me up on this: roughly what percentage of multiplat games are better on PS5 vs XSX?

 

[Topher]

Nope and if they do literally no one knows about it

I do think they are going to start "next gen" way earlier than Playstation though

That's going to be a shaky situation if true. Are they going to continue supporting XSX and XSS for a substantial period of time into their next gen? If they are then won't they still have games that have to work with XSS and continue to have that "held back" stench. If not then they are cutting XSX/XSS gamers loose far too early and they may be rightfully pissed.

Phil Spencer better have a good plan to navigate those waters.