Bernoulli
M2 slut
that's not a good strategy, 3rd party games will still look like current gen games so why they would do that?
and if PS6 comes one year later in can do an undercut with better and cheaper HW
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Digital Foundry about XSX teraflops advantage : It's kinda all blowing up in the face of Xbox Series X
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
and if PS6 comes one year later in can do an undercut with better and cheaper HW
nowifenolife
Member
Does it matter that much tho? Because who ever is better it's not usually by much. I could be wrong as I haven't been keeping up with the comparisons for for quite some time
balls of snow
Member
Trust the engineer who made the damn thing.
What a revelation.
Nah, look at Killzone Shadowfall to Red Dead Redemption 2 to Last of us 2 on a ps4 base. All at 1080p but varrying degrees of mindblowing throughout the years. Devs know how to squeeze that little extra out of the hardware after years of working on it. Happens every gen.
What a revelation.
Nah, look at Killzone Shadowfall to Red Dead Redemption 2 to Last of us 2 on a ps4 base. All at 1080p but varrying degrees of mindblowing throughout the years. Devs know how to squeeze that little extra out of the hardware after years of working on it. Happens every gen.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Phil Spencer's plans to navigate those waters:
- Buy a publisher to divert the attention,
- Invite all "influencers" to exclusive dinners so they can "manage expectations",
- Release a statement "We've heard the feedback, and we're fully committed to doing better and supporting the next consoles for a longer period."
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Said it before and I'll say it again:
Using basic metrics like tf as a comparator works on PC because the technology that connects them is basically the same. On a console this simply doesn't apply because everything else can be custom built, and that can substantially impact performance.
Using basic metrics like tf as a comparator works on PC because the technology that connects them is basically the same. On a console this simply doesn't apply because everything else can be custom built, and that can substantially impact performance.
Bernardougf
Gold Member
PaintTinJr
Member
But most of the other features are fill-rate limited and not part of the vertex/geometry pipeline that the Teraflops (CUs solve), and the PS5 is in a different higher range than the XsX GPU for fill-rate.
Dorfdad
Gold Member
It's not about the specs really. What we're doing here is throwing more brute force at games instead of enforcing and optimizing existing engines and specs to their capacity. Nintendo has proven time and time again on low end hardware you can achieve some beautiful results. Microsoft in my opinion has not really placed a mandate or given developers better tools. Sony to their credit seems to have a better approach with their support and development teams than Microsoft currently does, which allows developers to get more out of the base units.
They way I look at it is if you a Ferrari and a Prius on the same road full of potholes and cracks in the pavement it doesn't matter which car you drive your still hammered by the road (tools) if you pave the one with the Prius and leave the Ferrari on the bumpy one the Prius which is underpowered will get you there quicker and smoother than the other.
We're always so quick to more on to new hardware and push the boundaries instead of taking the time to maximize the current systems IMHO.
They way I look at it is if you a Ferrari and a Prius on the same road full of potholes and cracks in the pavement it doesn't matter which car you drive your still hammered by the road (tools) if you pave the one with the Prius and leave the Ferrari on the bumpy one the Prius which is underpowered will get you there quicker and smoother than the other.
We're always so quick to more on to new hardware and push the boundaries instead of taking the time to maximize the current systems IMHO.
PaintTinJr
Member
I have a new theory that the XsS reason to exist and be "current gen" was Microsoft's way of lowering expectation for their cloud offering, by saying you can play next-gen games on Xcloud, and they'd provide a (cloud degraded) approximation of the XsS experience, making it easier to do higher number of simultaneous cloud sessions with a better margin.
Which if true, means the appetite to go above XsX and make the Xcloud offering look even more inferior would be inconsistent. so I'm now starting to think XsX revisions will be the last Xbox consoles and they are now all in on Cloud..
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FunkMiller
Gold Member
I don't think there's ever been a console as wasted as the Series X. It's a genuinely great bit of kit, but MS just seem to constantly and consistently shit on it in one way or another, right out of the gate, and up to today.
Operations66
Member
Your playing sucks. My ears!!
There there...
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zeldaring
Banned
We had games like the order 1886, star wars battle front, and uncharted 4 that showed off ps4 way before that though. Mean while on current gen games look like ps4 games at 60fps and higher resolution, diminishing returns i guess.
Pasta la Vista
Gold Member
And how has MS used that advantage?
twilo99
Member
I think you mean deceived not robbed but even then the differences are so small that it doesn’t matter at all which console you have to play CoD on..
twilo99
Member
More importantly, by how much are they better?
Since they are 3rd party, the performance difference between the two means nothing since we have no idea how much resources, time, and general skill the dev team has to maximize the box.
JerryinSoCal
Member
The difference in the console space at least is last gen it did matter because the TF advantage was a significant percentage. The One X was better than the PS4 Pro in every way, it was also more expensive and came out a year later. A 1.7TF advantage between those two machines was about 30% which is pretty significant especially when you add in the extra memory etc but with the current gen there is only about a 15% theoretical difference between the GPU's when it comes to TF's but the PS5 is actually better than the Series X in some ways so most of that theoretical advantage is taken away., When a game has a higher native res on Series X it tends to have a smoother framerate on PS5, so it stands to reason that if they lowered the res on Series X to the same level as the PS5 they'd probably smooth out some of the performance issues and the games would basically be identical.
twilo99
Member
I think their first party games won’t be an issue.. how would they deal with the 3rd party situation is going to be very interesting indeed.
semiconscious
Member
well, you see, that's because it's the narrative up to the point that the participants in creating the narrative decide that it no longer is...They are talking like they are not largely participated in creation of this teraflops narrative
Team Andromeda
Member
I thought Halo Infinite was good and looks very nice and it's a cross gen game . Redfall was crap and it seemed never mind the engine , the team werent good enough. I've never seen AI so bad. That to me is more on the developer side, than hardware.
PS3 shower when development lead on it, it could match the 360. The Series X issue , is like for the Saturn, PS3 it's not the lead development platform.
I think the Xbox won't do better unless MS sorts out it's marketing and pushing it's brand showing what the Series X can do . I'm sick of people at MS or on Xbox Era thinking it's all about buying ever mode studios and nothing to do with PR or making better use of what resources the Xbox team already got.
Jibran#one
Member
Nintendo switch is a prime example of horse power game is total bs ,they sell the most consoles they have the best game on a cpu that's less powerful than 5 year old mobiles.
Just release games that are consistently 90+ and see how people flock towards the system.
Just release games that are consistently 90+ and see how people flock towards the system.
Fart Knight
Al Pachinko, Konami President
digoutyoursoul
Member
Don’t buy their systems at launch anymore, hold off, let them prove it’s capabilities first . They don’t care as long as people keep giving them money or have an army of fakes kissing their arse on social media.
Guerilla Munch
Member
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
Halo was bad from a PR perspective. I know that it is a wrong thing to do, but playing and loving TLOU 2 and Ghost of Tsushima and looking around that time at Craig made it hard to trust them. I understand that for those that played the game it had good points. Just that it is not a 10/10 game in my opinion and those kind of games are what Xbox needs to get better like the PS3 did. I agree that not being lead platform is a problem but look at games like Resident evil 4 remake and Hogwarts. They are not bad on the Series X. On the contrary. So not being lead platform is not a huge problem.
Xbox have to give us great games. I hope that Starfield will be one. And that we will get others. The question is will they even try? Or will they go for a early start nest gen in 2026/2027 like some people have been saying recently? On the PR side Xbox have to be more global too. Outside of the Us they are inexistent sadly.
Lysandros
Member
The power delta is non existent this generation.
Yup.
Which Series console gets discontinued first is gonna be a shit show, no matter which one.
If they both get discontinued at the same time.....oh boy.
Lysandros
Member
XSX having a 18% larger APU doesn't make it "technically superior", superiority is about the whole not just a facet.
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Nothing new here, tf aren't created equal, what's your point?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
The problem is that all that power is not harnessed as much by developers as people would have liked because a.) they could not or would not produce as many XSX units as we would like and b.) devs have to target the XSS so they tend to use it as a baseline which does hold your design back somewhat… also it is apparently a much more expensive design to manufacture and yet most games are not showing the superiority you claim, some have kind of lost the head to head benchmarks… that to me a superior architecture does not make (XSX is not a bad design, I am not saying it is).
SenkiDala
Member
Lol DF, that's some sick arsonist firefighters move. "Gngngngn 12TF gngngn 10TF" on hundreds of videos and at the end "guys why people are obsessed about TFs ? It doesn't mean anything".
Most reasonable gamers know this since decades. The 64 bits of the Jaguar, the huge superiority of the N64 next to the PS1 and at the end most of the gorgeous games releasing exclusively on the PS1, didn't they learn anything ?
Most reasonable gamers know this since decades. The 64 bits of the Jaguar, the huge superiority of the N64 next to the PS1 and at the end most of the gorgeous games releasing exclusively on the PS1, didn't they learn anything ?
It's not small cause it's pointless if parity deals just ended up eating almost every released content, parity deals are a thing.
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zeldaring
Banned
Ps5 share the same library as ps4, and is doing great. horse power does does matter. Playstation has been the most successful consistent consoles and their consoles have been doing great for decades and if they chose to make weak hardware they would be wiped out.
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This is just not the case. Based on the initial 7nm designs there's no meaningful cost difference or yield difference between them. In pure wafer costs XSX APU is like $5-10 more assuming a $10K wafer with both getting around 160-180 chips per. The XSX chip is like 15% bigger, it's no big deal.
Mobilemofo
Member
Was it not pretty obvious from the specs that xboxX wouldn't be a big leap at all? It's always been about the games...if it was just about power, Microsoft would have had the jump along time ago. It's why Sony has been able to outperform Microsoft in the console wars..
Yeah , just like Hulk Hogan not being the strongest wrestler despite being the number one contender, you can't be serious just throwing logic away for this analogy.
ShaiKhulud1989
Gold Member
PS VR2 and DualSense is the all Identity i need this gen.
You can't emulate this with TFs.
Neo_game
Member
According to these number it is:
AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs
AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bit
AMD Playstation 5 GPU Specs
AMD Oberon, 2233 MHz, 2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bit
twilo99
Member
Neither system is a "big leap" other than switching to SSDs
bitbydeath
Gold Member
If they butterfly it again then it’ll probably land around 21TF.
peish
Member
some one here posted about the arm soc with 512mb, but is it verified?
According to these number it is:
AMD Xbox Series X GPU Specs
AMD Scarlett, 1825 MHz, 3328 Cores, 208 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 10240 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 320 bitwww.techpowerup.com
AMD Playstation 5 GPU Specs
AMD Oberon, 2233 MHz, 2304 Cores, 144 TMUs, 64 ROPs, 16384 MB GDDR6, 1750 MHz, 256 bitwww.techpowerup.com
according to even amd themselves, ps5 is 4700s, xsx is 4800s. One step up
AMD 4800S Xbox Chip Shows Perils of Pairing CPUs with GDDR6
Turns out GDDR6 is much worse in the latency department compared to DDR4 and DDR5.
www.tomshardware.com
hullostranger
Member
Quality games to play
Mokus
Member
The memory is definitely present, not sure about the arm. But it's nothing significant to make an impactful difference. I think it is meant only for tasks that don't need the more expensive RAM or CPU to work properly: bios, network, Bluetooth, wireless.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
I doubt they'll need to do that. I think part of the function of the additional I/O hardware on the PS5 APU is there to simplify interfacing such that the actual structure of the GPU is less of a concern.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
Is this the xbox persecution complex post of the day? It grows tiresome.
MAX PAYMENT
Member
Is this the same reason the ps3 was more powerful than the Xbox 360 but every game performed significantly worse?
Deerock71
Member
Captain Toad
Banned
No. Each console "outperformed" the other about half the time. But, the differences were so small that no one likely would even know who "won" without sites like DF analyzing things frame by frame.