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[semicool]

Digital Foundry claims "While the jury is still out in the absence of higher quality assets, what we've seen so far across the board shows little to no evidence of the use of variable rate shading - a technique Microsoft is championing as a key efficiency driver in next-gen rendering."

Speculation: This seems at odds with some who were claiming that PS5 had VRS because it's in RDNA2. If that's the case, is it possible the XSX could have a more advanced or higher version of RDNA2 as the PS5 shows no evidence of VRS, at least as of yet? Or is it possibly just a custom feature for XSX GPU...ergo not a standard RDNA2 feature? Or will other PS5 games show it on a per game by game basis in the future?

Link: https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2020-ps5-reveal-does-it-deliver-the-next-gen-dream

 

[Stevonidas]

Hold up, lemme git muh snacks fo dis...

A'ight, continue.

 

[megreotsugua]

Who cares about vrs. It blurs the graphics and detail.

It's just one of Alex Bagtalia obsession over nothing.

You don't miss the forest for the tress.

 

[Dee_Dee]

This thread is gonna be fun to watch

 

[-Arcadia-]

(War drums)

 

[sol_bad]

What is VRS?

 

[Rikkori]

Thing is, its efficiency varies on a game by game basis. I don't think you were ever gonna see it in every title, and you won't for Xbox/PC either. It's too early to jump to conclusions imo, but I do hope we see it used more going forward.

 

[too much eslim]

Interesting if true the Delta between the two consoles is going to be even bigger than we thought. The XsX is going to punch way above it's weight with VRS and machine learning.

 

[-Arcadia-]

What is VRS?

You shade things in direct view of the player, and lessen the effect for things out of view or further from it, is my understanding.

Basically a smarter way of doing things, that saves computation for other tasks.

 

[LostDonkey]

 

[Thaedolus]

BuT I tHoUgHt DF WaS a BuNcH oF MiCrOsOfT fAnS

 

[Batiman]

Oh dear god no

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

It might not have it. But nothing shown yesterday was exactly super impressive graphically where they might need to use it. I mean even Ratchet was only 30fps

MS apparently have their own patented version, and it’s also built into RDNA2 GPU’s. So PS5 can have it too.

 

[skneogaf]

I'm sure Sony developers will figure it out, they can just checkerboard everything again. It looked good enough in god of war etc.

 

[Aceofspades]

Well, DF doesn't know shit.

I'm still waiting for Xbox One "move engines" and "Edram" to bridge the power gap with PS4.

They are clueless

 

[bitbydeath]

I thought it was already stated that VRS is a Direct X feature so it obviously won’t show up on PS5.

PS5’s equivalent for those features is the geometry engine.

 

[Andodalf]

Even if no games shown use it, it doesn’t mean they don’t have it. It’s also not super easy to tell even with the 4K YT videos. Time will tell.

I thought it was already stated that VRS is a Direct X feature so it obviously won’t show up on PS5.

PS5’s equivalent for those features is the geometry engine.

Iirc Vulcan and open GL can use VRS. Geo engine is a different thing

 

[DeepEnigma]

 

[XBlackCavendishX]

I thought we played games for fun or have I been doing it wrong all along?

 

[JLMC469]

Well, DF doesn't know shit.

I'm still waiting for Xbox One "move engines" and "Edram" to bridge the power gap with PS4.

They are clueless

 

[DeepEnigma]

I thought it was already stated that VRS is a Direct X feature so it obviously won’t show up on PS5.

PS5’s equivalent for those features is the geometry engine.

Don't ruin the fun!

 

[semicool]

I thought it was already stated that VRS is a Direct X feature so it obviously won’t show up on PS5.

PS5’s equivalent for those features is the geometry engine.

If the results are the same, then DF saw no evidence. My understanding is that they are different results. Nvidia has VRS in their RTX line of GPU s. Case in point, in the same article about the Geometry Engine:

"Elsewhere, another aspect of the Cerny presentation paid off spectacularly. One of the key features of the new GPU is the Geometry Engine, giving developers unprecedented control over triangles and other primitives and easy control over geometry culling. There's nothing new in terms of principles here - it boils down to removing the need to render triangles that end up being invisible in the final frame. The less geometry you process, the less work there is for the GPU, meaning that resources can be used elsewhere. The immense richness in detail seen in idTech 7 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare's IW8 engine owes much to culling. However, the next-gen geometry engine does this at the hardware level, while opening the door to primitive shaders, which helps to streamline the entire process.
"

PlayStation 5: Does the new Sony console deliver the next-gen dream?

Yes, we finally saw the console, we know what it looks like and how gigantic it is - but crucially, yesterday's PlaySta…

www.eurogamer.net

VRS in other commentary.
"

 

[Coolwhhip]

I thought we played games for fun or have I been doing it wrong all along?

its war, so we fight about technical details we are all clueless about.

 

[Dee Dah Dave]

Geometry engine is the RDNA2 mesh shaders and stuff, VRS is separate from that. Be hopes they have it anyway because it gives about a 25% saving in GPU rendering for no real perceived image quality loss.

 

[Andodalf]

If the results are the same, then DF saw no evidence. My understanding is that they are different results. Case in point, in the same article about the Geometry Engine:

"Elsewhere, another aspect of the Cerny presentation paid off spectacularly. One of the key features of the new GPU is the Geometry Engine, giving developers unprecedented control over triangles and other primitives and easy control over geometry culling. There's nothing new in terms of principles here - it boils down to removing the need to render triangles that end up being invisible in the final frame. The less geometry you process, the less work there is for the GPU, meaning that resources can be used elsewhere. The immense richness in detail seen in idTech 7 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare's IW8 engine owes much to culling. However, the next-gen geometry engine does this at the hardware level, while opening the door to primitive shaders, which helps to streamline the entire process.
"

PlayStation 5: Does the new Sony console deliver the next-gen dream?

Yes, we finally saw the console, we know what it looks like and how gigantic it is - but crucially, yesterday's PlaySta…

www.eurogamer.net

VRS in other commentary.
"

what you reference is about not drawing triangles you don’t see, vrs is about doing less precise/ lower res shading on pixels on screen that aren’t important. These pixels are seen, and essentially show up as parts of the screen having low res effects on them, kinda like how you can see the pixelation in shadows or light shafts in most current gen games

 

[TGO]

Not being funny but If you can tell then it's not very good, no?

 

[ManaByte]

 

[semicool]

what you reference is about not drawing triangles you don’t see, vrs is about doing less precise/ lower res shading on pixels on screen that aren’t important. These pixels are seen, and essentially show up as parts of the screen having low res effects on them, kinda like how you can see the pixelation in shadows or light shafts in most current gen games

That's my understanding too. That's was my reply that the Geometry Engine is not a VRS equivalent. XSX has mesh shaders for that pipeline.

 

[rnlval]

Well, DF doesn't know shit.

I'm still waiting for Xbox One "move engines" and "Edram" to bridge the power gap with PS4.

They are clueless

X1X is the fix against XBO.

 

[GribbleGrunger]

Perhaps the PS5 doesn't need a workaround?

 

[DeepEnigma]

If the results are the same, then DF saw no evidence. My understanding is that they are different results. Nvidia has VRS in their RTX line of GPU s. Case in point, in the same article about the Geometry Engine:

"Elsewhere, another aspect of the Cerny presentation paid off spectacularly. One of the key features of the new GPU is the Geometry Engine, giving developers unprecedented control over triangles and other primitives and easy control over geometry culling. There's nothing new in terms of principles here - it boils down to removing the need to render triangles that end up being invisible in the final frame. The less geometry you process, the less work there is for the GPU, meaning that resources can be used elsewhere. The immense richness in detail seen in idTech 7 and Call of Duty Modern Warfare's IW8 engine owes much to culling. However, the next-gen geometry engine does this at the hardware level, while opening the door to primitive shaders, which helps to streamline the entire process.
"

PlayStation 5: Does the new Sony console deliver the next-gen dream?

Yes, we finally saw the console, we know what it looks like and how gigantic it is - but crucially, yesterday's PlaySta…

www.eurogamer.net

VRS in other commentary.
"

No, the results will not "be the same" in a traditional sense. From what I understand, both are using their own method to get more out of their consoles without sacrificing too much if at all on screen visually for the gamer.

There is no more advanced RDNA2 than the other... MS chose their VRS customization, and Sony chose their Geometry Engine customization within that RDNA2 architecture block. Both doing so to get more bang out of the silicon with tricks which is the only thing "the same" with their goals.

It all comes down to how they are implemented. I personally prefer the less intrusive looking approach, since I tend to wander my eyes all over the screen a lot, not just the view the game wants me to look.

 

[semicool]

No, the results will not "be the same" in a traditional sense. From what I understand, both are using their own method to get more out of their consoles without sacrificing too much if at all on screen visually for the gamer.

There is no more advanced RDNA2 than the other... MS chose their VRS customization, and Sony chose their Geometry Engine customization within that RDNA2 architecture block. Both doing so to get more bang out of the silicon with tricks which is the only thing "the same" with their goals.

It all comes down to how they are implemented. I personally prefer the less intrusive looking approach, since I tend to wander my eyes all over the screen a lot, not just the view the game wants me to look.

No Geometry Engine with primitive shaders on the PS5 is comparable to mesh shaders on the XSX. VRS is something MS, Nvidia and AMD have on their newer and forthcoming GPU s.

Similar idea in that you save on unnecessary rendering but geometry(ps5 geometry engine, XSX mesh shaders) vs shading application(VRS)

What is variable rate shading: Xbox Series X feature explained

How Microsoft hopes to have the visual edge over Sony’s PS5 with Xbox Series X variable rate shading

www.google.com

 

[Andodalf]

Not being funny but If you can tell then it's not very good, no?

It varies by implementation, but it’s quite hard to see in motion, and even more so when actually playing games. The DF video about it shows it well. The gears tactics video shows a game where it’s not so great, mainly because the game is more static.

think about a racing game where the sides of the screen are moving super fast and have motion blur, wouldn’t it be better to spend more attention on the cars and tracks?

 

[Xplainin]

I thought it was already stated that VRS is a Direct X feature so it obviously won’t show up on PS5.

PS5’s equivalent for those features is the geometry engine.

Geometry Engine is more Mesh Shading.
I would have thought Sony would have mentioned VRS by now if they had it, but until Sony gives out some more info, hopefully in the teardown reveal, we cant really judge much.
VRS would have been available to them via RDNA 2 if they wanted to option it, so maybe they have their own solution, or didn't value it.

 

[LostDonkey]

Perhaps the PS5 doesn't need a workaround?

 

[DeepEnigma]

No Geometry Engine with primitive shaders on the PS5 is comparable to mesh shaders on the XSX. VRS is something MS, Nvidia and AMD have on their newer and forthcoming Gpus.

I am pretty sure it does a few more advanced things that traditional mesh shading since it’s on the hardware level.

 

[Andodalf]

Geometry Engine is more Mesh Shading.
I would have thought Sony would have mentioned VRS by now if they had it, but until Sony gives out some more info, hopefully in the teardown reveal, we cant really judge much.
VRS would have been available to them via RDNA 2 if they wanted to option it, so maybe they have their own solution, or didn't value it.

It’s entirely possible their engines just don’t make use of it yet, few PC games support it

 

[Leonidas]

Ouch if true. VRS is a great feature of next-gen PC GPUs since 2018.

 

[Thugnificient]

Maybe cause none of the games needed it? The fact that VRS invisible is a good thing, not a bad one.

 

[Die Namek Ability]

If im not mistaken ps4 pro could do VRS so why would the ps5 not be able to? My take is these games didn't need VRS an could hit thier targets while native 4k. As the graphic fidelity is more demanding as the generation progresses i think you will see more and more VRS if devs have a high fps in mind.

 

[DarkBatman]

I thought we played games for fun or have I been doing it wrong all along?

No, we do it to have a massive console war to laugh about the rival's lack of VRS and some other stuff we never heard of.
Burn all your games and start hating. DO IT!!! (/s - putting that in just in case...)

 

[Nikana]

Well, DF doesn't know shit.

I'm still waiting for Xbox One "move engines" and "Edram" to bridge the power gap with PS4.

They are clueless

 

[INC]

Who cares about vrs. It blurs the graphics and detail.

It's just one of Alex Bagtalia obsession over nothing.

You don't miss the forest for the tress.

More useful for VR tbh

 

[psorcerer]

UE5 engine demo was all VRS, the fuckers could not even pixelcount that it was 1440p until told. DF...

 

[IntentionalPun]

I thought we played games for fun or have I been doing it wrong all along?

DF exists to analyze graphics.

I personally don't pay attention to it other than it's just kinda interesting. Outside of terrible performance none of their analysis is gonna change my mind about a game but it's still interesting stuff.

They aren't always right though lol

 

[Thugnificient]

If im not mistaken ps4 pro could do VRS so why would the ps5 not be able to? My take is these games didn't need VRS an could hit thier targets while native 4k. As the graphic fidelity is more demanding as the generation progresses i think you will see more and more VRS if devs have a high fps in mind.

Since when could the PS4 Pro do VRS?

 

[eastwood333]

Who cares about vrs. It blurs the graphics and detail.

It's just one of Alex Bagtalia obsession over nothing.

You don't miss the forest for the tress.

Actually it sharpens detail where it matters most, while blurring things that are less noticed/if noticed at all in the background.

Has nothing to do with Alex. It's one of the core new features in RDNA2 and onwards. Hellblade 2 was already shown to be using the feature in the trailer.

Graphics get better by better software,improved effiecient implementations.

What you just said is sheer nonsense and naïve.

 

[eastwood333]

If im not mistaken ps4 pro could do VRS so why would the ps5 not be able to? My take is these games didn't need VRS an could hit thier targets while native 4k. As the graphic fidelity is more demanding as the generation progresses i think you will see more and more VRS if devs have a high fps in mind.

You're mistaken unless PS4 Pro was secretly using RDNA2 architecture several years in advance.

 

[Quantum253]

VRS=Gameplay trailers doesn't mean actual gameplay.

Spoiler

I'm just playin. I highly doubt, although both customized to each hardware, that there's hardly any differences between the RDNA2 chip benefits in both consoles. We have still yet to see a third party title running side by side to know what the differences really are.

 

[ManaByte]

You're mistaken unless PS4 Pro was secretly using RDNA2 architecture several years in advance.

It really was beta tested in the future!

VRS=Gameplay trailers doesn't mean actual gameplay.

Spoiler

I'm just playin. I highly doubt, although both customized to each hardware, that there's hardly any differences between the RDNA2 chip benefits in both consoles. We have still yet to see a third party title running side by side to know what the differences really are.

We saw Ratchet gameplay.