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[Riky]

I would be better off if they didn't use a technique that is not noticeable during gameplay? I need to succinctly explain why I am not asking Bethesda to remove something that is NOT noticeable during gameplay? A technique, which is not noticeable during gameplay, is a "image quality destroyer".




Amazing how such hyperbole can be derived from a visual artifact, that is only visible while "rapidly panning the camera" and pausing to capture an unresolved frame from the game.

Yep worth it to keep the lower bounds higher for no noticeable impact. Good to see third parties getting on board with it now.

 

[jroc74]

Vaseline Rendering Solution hideously strikes again.

I dont understand why....if its gonna look like that.

 

[MarkMe2525]

VRS is visible during gameplay, you are halving and in some case shading at quarter the resolution. How visible it is, is dependent on implementation and how aggressive you reduce the shading rate. You are sacrificing shading resolution for performance.

If it cannot be perceived, it is not visible. Is it there...yes, but not visible.

 

[BouncyFrag]

Braindance edit mode?

 

[Topher]

TL-DR

- Only supported on new-gen consoles and PC, dropped support for PS4/XBO
- Dogtown has more open and 'car friendly' layout for traversal

Visuals:
- Perf and RT on PS5/SX, and Perf and Quality on Series S

- Perf mode:
- PS5: 1080p~1440p upscaled to 1800p
- SX: 1152p~ 1440p upscaled to 1800p
- SS: 648p~900p upscaled to 1080p

- RT/Quality mode:
- SX|PS5: 1440p upscaled to 2160p
- SS: 1080p upscaled to 1440p

- All 3 consoles have lowered the performance modes max resolution ceilings in the latest patch
- Xbox consoles show signs of hardware VRS
- FSR2 can sometimes 'breaks and re-resolve' image, seen in Quality mode and mostly on Series S
- PS5|SX still have FSR2 related shimmering resolve in some areas, and the peak resolution is lower so they can look a little bit less defined in stills

Performance:
- Dogdown is heavier on resources than most Night City
- All consoles drop from 60fps in open world traversal, mostly pronounced on SS
- Driving can cause performance to drop to 50s or below. Combat also drops but is less intrusive
- 30 FPS Quality mode is also prone to drop frames here and there during fast traversal
- DF thinks it's better to stick to 60FPS even though the FPS dips can be annoying

- Older areas:
- Performance is notably better in Patch 2.0 compared to previous patches in older areas
- SX prone to drop more frames when driving in Night City
- 30 FPS modes are mostly locked 30 with minimal drops

- Most other changes in patch are artistic, eg more notable vignetting in some places, difference in camera placement when driving etc
- Changes here and there in textures, color grading, lighting in some areas also seen
- No notable bugs during DF testing

The video says Xbox version in performance mode does not run quite as "stably" as the PS5.

Timestamped:

 

[GHG]

I would be better off if they didn't use a technique that is not noticeable during gameplay? I need to succinctly explain why I am not asking Bethesda to remove something that is NOT noticeable during gameplay? A technique, which is not noticeable during gameplay, is a "image quality destroyer".




Amazing how such hyperbole can be derived from a visual artifact, that is only visible while "rapidly panning the camera" and pausing to capture an unresolved frame from the game.

Edit: I said Bethesda instead of CDPR. My bad, I was playing Starfield while typing this out.

If you can clearly see it in a youtube video when it's in motion then you'll be able to see it when it's running natively on your screen.

It's an IQ destroyer, end of.

 

[Darsxx82]

You could use that argument on any image - unless you see a side by side comparison you may not realise. But that doesn't negate the fact, and it is a fact. That there's some image degradation going on with the technique on this example. Its Ok to debate if its actually noticeable or not. As many variables like panel quality, size and seating distance are going to have an impact. But on my 85" panel I'd be surprised if it didnt look better without. Historically I've seen similar type zoomed in comparison shots for AA techniques and your eye can usually pick up on it.

On your 85" screen, perhaps you will appreciate and celebrate an extra general sharpness better than the degradation of detail of a specific object or texture in a specific darkened area.

And no, the comparison with AA type differences is not correct or comparable here. Different AA affects the overall image, VRS only affects objects and textures in specific places outside the central scene. In fact, VRS is not activated in bright places or during the day.

The VRS usage base has one object. Gain extra resolution/general definition and, if possible, extra fps at the cost of a degree of degradation of elements and objects that are generally "imperceptible" or very difficult to discern.
Of course, the result will depend a lot on its better or worse implementation.

 

[MarkMe2525]

If you can clearly see it in a youtube video when it's in motion then you'll be able to see it when it's running natively on your screen.

It's an IQ destroyer, end of.

I literally played it for 3 hours on my 75" (since patch). You're full of it. Give it up.

 

[GHG]

I literally played it for 3 hours on my 75" (since patch). You're full of it. Give it up.

Yeh and when I see what you're having to be subjected to it looks like vaseline compared to what I'm running.

Keep using those emojis, maybe you can imagine one up in the VRS soup.

 

[adamsapple]

The video says Xbox version in performance mode does not run quite as "stably" as the PS5.

Timestamped:

- SX prone to drop more frames when driving in Night City

 

[Topher]

adamsapple

My bad.....missed that.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Yeh and when I see what you're having to be subjected to it looks like vaseline compared to what I'm running.

Keep using those emojis, maybe you can imagine one up in the VRS soup.

"Vaseline" "VRS soup" if this is indeed how you perceived the game running on XSX, might I suggest an eye exam. If it is just a case of you being disingenuous, well I guess that is just par for course.

 

[adamsapple]

adamsapple

My bad.....missed that.

 

[Heisenberg007]

It's funny to see the same folks who used to talk non-stop about "Software Tier 1 VRS" on PS5 vs. "Hardware Tier 2 VRS" on XSX now downplaying the VRS poor results saying it's hard to notice lol.

 

[Skifi28]

It's funny to see the same folks who used to talk non-stop about Software Tier 1 VRS on PS5 vs. Hardware Tier 2 VRS on XSX now downplaying the VRS poor results saying it's hard to notice lol.

Add it to the list.

 

[King Dazzar]

And no, the comparison with AA type differences is not correct or comparable here. Different AA affects the overall image, VRS only affects objects and textures in specific places outside the central scene. In fact, VRS is not activated in bright places or during the day.

I get that. The point I was making. Is that the 400% zoom in shouldn't be used as a reason to discard why you wouldn't see the degradation. For example: the two key bits on that image, where I reckon you would likely notice. Would be the 09010 on the left of the image, with one readable and the other illegible. And the (what looks like) badly aliased lines of the pyramid structure as a consequence of VRS.

 

[SlimySnake]

- Perf mode:
- SS: 648p~900p upscaled to 1080p

Just to put this in context.... 75% of the xbox userbase will be playing this game at 648p or without ray tracing support.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Just to put this in context.... 75% of the xbox userbase will be playing this game at 648p or without ray tracing support.

 

[adamsapple]

It's funny to see the same folks who used to talk non-stop about "Software Tier 1 VRS" on PS5 vs. "Hardware Tier 2 VRS" on XSX now downplaying the VRS poor results saying it's hard to notice lol.

Well, Tier 2 *is* objectively better than Tier 1, especially with games which do DRS scaling.

While the use of Tier 1 VRS in Gears Tactics offered some great performance gains, it had some small compromises to visual quality and didn’t work well with Dynamic Resolution Scaling. As a result, we investigated the extra flexibility allowed in Tier 2 to see if we could solve the Tier 1 shortcomings.

Just to put this in context.... 75% of the xbox userbase will be playing this game at 648p or without ray tracing support.

The game isn't always on the lowest bound of the DRS.

By that logic you can say 100% of PS5/SX owners will be playing this at ~1080p.

 

[SlimySnake]

Well, Tier 2 *is* objectively better than Tier 1, especially with games which do DRS scaling.






The game isn't always on the lowest bound of the DRS.

By that logic you can say 100% of PS5/SX owners will be playing this at ~1080p.

does it have RT?

 

[Heisenberg007]

Well, Tier 2 *is* objectively better than Tier 1, especially with games which do DRS scaling.

Tier 1 or Tier 2 ... VRS is a shit technology that makes the games look worse. We've seen it in Dead Space, Cyberpunk, Doom Eternal, and other games.

Burn down that vaseline and save humanity.

 

[adamsapple]

does it have RT?

No, and DF recommends people play the mode without RT anyway.

Tier 1 or Tier 2 ... VRS is a shit technology that makes the games look worse. We've seen it in Dead Space, Cyberpunk, Doom Eternal, and other games.

Eh, not really, unless you're playing games with the magnifier app on.

Oliver: "In actual gameplay, I didn't find that the VRS was noticeable."

Both Doom Eternal and Dead Space remake are generally considered better on Xbox for better performance and higher DRS, with no visual differences.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Just to put this in context.... 75% of the xbox userbase will be playing this game at 648p or without ray tracing support.

 

[SlimySnake]

No, and DF recommends people play the mode without RT anyway.

the point is that the xsx owners still have a choice.

Its not the first time we have seen this on the sx. plenty of games have shipped without rt. plenty of games dip below 720p. Yes, PS5 and XSX have 60 fps modes that dip to 720p but they are still rare where as lack of RT and low resolutions seem to be a standard on what essentially the preferred next gen console from MS likely being owned by 2/3rd of the xs userbase.

I think MS missed a trick here. Shouldve released a $399 8 tflops GPU and a $599 16 tflops GPU. Way better value and everyone wouldve got the next gen experience.

 

[DeepEnigma]

the point is that the xsx owners still have a choice.

Its not the first time we have seen this on the sx. plenty of games have shipped without rt. plenty of games dip below 720p. Yes, PS5 and XSX have 60 fps modes that dip to 720p but they are still rare where as lack of RT and low resolutions seem to be a standard on what essentially the preferred next gen console from MS likely being owned by 2/3rd of the xs userbase.

I think MS missed a trick here. Shouldve released a $399 8 tflops GPU and a $599 16 tflops GPU. Way better value and everyone wouldve got the next gen experience.

Or just do a diskless XSX for $399 like Sony did.

 

[violence]

This spoiled more than I would’ve liked. I wish I didn’t watch it.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Eh, not really, unless you're playing games with the magnifier app on.

Oliver: "In actual gameplay, I didn't find that the VRS was noticeable."

Both Doom Eternal and Dead Space remake are generally considered better on Xbox for better performance and higher DRS, with no visual differences.

Oliver is a blind idiot then, isn't he?

Besides, literally what purpose does VRS serve here? It makes the game look worse on XSX and doesn't even improve its performance, as the PS5 still sticks to 60 FPS better than XSX despite no VRS?

VRS literally serves 0 purpose here.

 

[Putonahappyface]

Needs more Vaseline.

 

[adamsapple]

Oliver is a blind idiot then, isn't he?

Besides, literally what purpose does VRS serve here? It makes the game look worse on XSX and doesn't even improve its performance, as the PS5 still sticks to 60 FPS better than XSX despite no VRS?

VRS literally serves 0 purpose here.

In this one games example, yes. CP 2077 always ran a bit better on PS5 since the next gen versions launched, and VRS has been there since then, it's not something added to this patch. There's nothing new here that wasn't there since Jan 2022.

One outlier example doesn't mean the feature as a whole doesn't work.

That's akin to discrediting PS5's faster SSD just because Mortal Kombat loads faster on SX.

 

[Riky]

No, and DF recommends people play the mode without RT anyway.




Eh, not really, unless you're playing games with the magnifier app on.

Oliver: "In actual gameplay, I didn't find that the VRS was noticeable."

Both Doom Eternal and Dead Space remake are generally considered better on Xbox for better performance and higher DRS, with no visual differences.

Id said they wished all platforms supported it, guess they're pretty qualified to know.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Id said they wished all platforms supported it, guess they're pretty qualified to know.

iD also disliked the XSS, guess they're pretty qualified to know.

 

[King Dazzar]

In this one games example, yes. CP 2077 always ran a bit better on PS5 since the next gen versions launched, and VRS has been there since then, it's not something added to this patch. There's nothing new here that wasn't there since Jan 2022.

One outlier example doesn't mean the feature as a whole doesn't work.

That's akin to discrediting PS5's faster SSD just because Mortal Kombat loads faster on SX.

I'll be honest, I think with CP2077, you're dying on a hill that's simply not worth the stance. You're defending the indefensible. Image quality takes a hit and performance gains aren't there. If you really wanted to push the VRS "experience", then Gears 5 would be a far more defensible hill to choose.... just a thought.

 

[adamsapple]

I'll be honest, I think with CP2077, you're dying on a hill that's simply not worth the stance. You're defending the indefensible. Image quality takes a hit and performance gains aren't there. If you really wanted to push the VRS "experience", then Gears 5 would be a far more defensible hill to choose.... just a thought.

Oh no no, I think there's a misunderstanding. I'm saying that *this* games implementation is not the best in terms of performance gained. Not defending VRS/Xbox for this game in particular at all. *

* That being said, I played the base game after it got the next-gen patch last year and the drops are well within the VRR range in most cases so it was a mostly smooth experience anyway, outside of frame time related drops that VRR can't fix.

The fact that they dropped the games max res from 2160p to 1800p even in the original game areas is a bummer. Why not just have DRS scale more aggressively instead of reducing the max resolution.

Even in the most optimal situations, it will not look as good as it did pre-patch.

 

[shamoomoo]

If it cannot be perceived, it is not visible. Is it there...yes, but not visible.

While that can be a thing,that sounds really weird when there were a few other games that had bad implementation on there Series' consoles with one being obvious in a DF head-to-head,that being Doom.

 

[King Dazzar]

Oh no no, I think there's a misunderstanding. I'm saying that *this* games implementation is not the best in terms of performance gained. Not defending VRS/Xbox for this game in particular at all. *

* That being said, I played the base game after it got the next-gen patch last year and the drops are well within the VRR range in most cases so it was a mostly smooth experience anyway, outside of frame time related drops that VRR can't fix.

The fact that they dropped the games max res from 2160p to 1800p even in the original game areas is a bummer. Why not just have DRS scale more aggressively instead of reducing the max resolution.

Even in the most optimal situations, it will not look as good as it did pre-patch.

I think the frame rate on both is far more of an issue. I've got VRR on a very high end 8k LCD. But its not quite as good image quality as with it off. And even on my smaller OLED, you can get things like gamma shift with VRR enabled. But yeah VRR makes it far more playable.

 

[Tripolygon]

One outlier example doesn't mean the feature as a whole doesn't work.

It is not one outlier. The feature is working as it should. You trade shading resolution for performance. It’s like dynamic resolution scaling where you trade resolution for performance.

That's akin to discrediting PS5's faster SSD just because Mortal Kombat loads faster on SX.

That’s not an apt analogy as you cannot discredit PS5 SSD. Your analogy is like discrediting XSX hardware advantage because PS5 performance better in this game.

 

[Macaron]

Someone wanna tell me if this game HDR still broken without having to watch a 13 min vid ?

 

[MarkMe2525]

While that can be a thing,that sounds really weird when there were a few other games that had bad implementation on there Series' consoles with one being obvious in a DF head-to-head,that being Doom.

Hey there, I am aware that there are some good implementations and some bad implementations of VRS. Those situations don't have anything to do with the implementation here in CP2077, which is what I am discussing. I realize it can be hard to follow in a thread with so many discussions going on, I just wanted to be clear.

 

[SKYF@ll]

DF"The new patch on Xbox Series consoles doesn't seem to run quite as consistently as the PS5 code. "
XBOX seems to have image quality issues with VRS and FSR2 reconstruction.
Three years later, Cyberpunk has evolved a lot since its release date.(more stable 60fps)

Cyberpunk 2077: Phantom Liberty - an ambitious evolution targeting today's consoles

Plus: has the 2.0 upgrade delivered tech improvements to the established game?

www.eurogamer.net

 

[MarkMe2525]

That’s not an apt analogy as you cannot discredit PS5 SSD. Your analogy is like discrediting XSX hardware advantage because PS5 performance better in this game.

His point was you should not derive conclusions from a single data point or outlier. He provided a data point that suggested XSX has faster loading than PS5, when we know this isn't the case in the vast majority of cases.

So, for the point he was attempting to make, the analogy works.

To be clear, I am not attempting to bolster anyone else's argument. Just wanted to comment on that specific point.

 

[King Dazzar]

Someone wanna tell me if this game HDR still broken without having to watch a 13 min vid ?

Its fine on PS5 when I tested it.

 

[Tripolygon]

If it cannot be perceived, it is not visible. Is it there...yes, but not visible.

It is there and perceivable, the question is does it detract from the overall presentation? There is a difference between rendering at 4K native vs rendering at 1080p and upscaling to 4K. Is it obvious when played in isolation? No but it is there and perceivable. It becomes glaringly more obvious when compared against something "better" or if the base resolution is too low to resolve to a higher quality pixel.

His point was you should not derive conclusions from a single data point or outlier. He provided a data point that suggested XSX has faster loading than PS5, when we know this isn't the case in the vast majority of cases.

So, for the point he was attempting to make, the analogy works.

To be clear, I am not attempting to bolster anyone else's argument. Just wanted to comment on that specific point.

The analogy does not work. It is not one data point, every game that uses VRS trade image quality for performance. VRS is made specifically to trade shading resolution for performance. You halve or shade at quarter the resolution in order to gain more performance that is its entire purpose. So, you can't then say it is not working correctly when it is doing exactly what it is intended to do. It plays nicely with certain games because they are able to hide it better, but the entire purpose is to shade at a lower rate to gain performance.

 

[Physiognomonics]

Resolutions found

Apparent VRS implementation on Xbox versions

Resolution in performance mode dropped to 1800p from 2160p, makes the game look slightly blurrier on both consoles

Always the same problem with hardware VRS on Xbox, it looks bad. What's good to have a 10% higher resolution (well in worst cases) if the image looks noticeably lower resolution because of VRS?

PS5 looks higher resolution and has better framerate here.

 

[MarkMe2525]

It is there and perceivable, the question is does it detract from the overall presentation? There is a difference between rendering at 4K native vs rendering at 1080p and upscaling to 4K. Is it obvious when played in isolation? No but it is there and perceivable. It becomes glaringly more obvious when compared against something "better" or if the base resolution is too low to resolve to a higher quality pixel.

The analogy does not work. It is not one data point, every game that uses VRS trade image quality for performance. VRS is made specifically to trade shading resolution for performance. You halve or shade at quarter the resolution in order to gain more performance that is its entire purpose. So, you can't then say it is not working correctly when it is doing exactly what it is intended to do. It plays nicely with certain games because they are able to hide it better, but the entire purpose is to shade at a lower rate to gain performance.

I know what VRS is. He analogy was good even if you don't like the way it was presented. It is not perceivable in normal gameplay.

 

[onQ123]

People really didn't understand the point of VRS lol


The point is to save GPU time by doing less work in the places people wouldn't really notice ( Sadly we notice lol)

 

[Gamerguy84]

Performance mode is definitely the way to go with this on PS5 and SX. I only played for a couple minutes with RT on but it felt like a slide show.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Resolutions found

Apparent VRS implementation on Xbox versions

Resolution in performance mode dropped to 1800p from 2160p, makes the game look slightly blurrier on both consoles

Wtf? Makes no sense for the quality mode since it never went lower than 30 fps to begin with. Though one thing I did notice is 30 fps feels more playable now, as if they reduced some input lag.

The performance mode needed it's target res dropped a bit because it never felt like a locked 60 on ps5. Feels much better now.

Overall Cyberpunk 2077 on console is still very disappointing imo. They never got RT reflections to work in Quality mode (despite it saying in the Graphics menu when NExt gen update came out) and it's taken 3 years to get a totally stable 60 fps (where they've had to both lower resolution and use FSR which means ugly artifacts).

In fact I wonder if the original 1260p mode from back in 2020 had sharper image quality than what we have now. Certainly the game looked better when Next Gen patch released and it was 1440p without FSR.

I think its pretty natural to wonder also how much attention was taken away from consoles to be put towards their business arrangement with Nvidia.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

In 90% of games released VRS looks dogshit with just slight resolution/fps (or nothing) increase.

Totally not worth using.

The one game that vrs worked well for is Doom Eternal, which looks sharper on SX than Ps5 in its RT mode.

 

[clarky]

How many video can they milk from a single game?

I think starfield had like 3 videos? How many for CP already?

This is at the absolute cutting edge of videogame shinnys fella, its DF's wet dream. Expect vids for years to come.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Tier 1 or Tier 2 ... VRS is a shit technology that makes the games look worse. We've seen it in Dead Space, Cyberpunk, Doom Eternal, and other games.

Burn down that vaseline and save humanity.

Whatever they did in Doom Eternal worked really well. I have it on both ps5 and sx and it looks better on xbox in rt mode. I believe the res is a bit higher but more importantly, sx has higher anisotropic filtering. Now, whether the AF is higher because of VRS is another question. Reflections are more clear on Xbox too.

But that's just one game that seems to have implemented VRS correctly.