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[Red Blaster]

Just sayin'.

While I expect to 360 to be pretty powerful, how come all the work in progress stuff on it looks pretty meh for next-gen, while the PS3's work in progress stuff (such as the Gundam demo, from a second rate developer, no less) looks quite a bit better?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Haven't been following RE5 THAT closely, but is this game still targeted at being a couple years away? If so, i have a hardtime believing they have the realtime visuals this advanced on a game that is so early. CG?

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Says who? I fully expect RE5 to look that good in game.

I fully expect it to look "like" that too. But look closer, you can tell it's concept art. Unless the developers have come up with a filter that makes things look like paintings.

 

[sangreal]

While I expect to 360 to be pretty powerful, how come all the work in progress stuff on it looks pretty meh for next-gen, while the PS3's work in progress stuff (such as the Gundam demo, from a second rate developer, no less) looks quite a bit better?

You think the Gundam demo isn't possible on the 360? Its running off just the PPE and some geforce cards. Nothing about that is more powerful than the 360.

 

[Loki]

Well, the last pic is absolutely NOT realtime in any sense of the word. The other 2 not so sure about. The closeup certainly look very doable.

The middle pic only looks "doable" because of the slightly polygonal ears. However, there is some SERIOUS texture work going on in that pic, and it makes me skeptical that it's real time, or even an in-game cut scene. Check out the shoulder strap in particular-- that's just nuts. Also, anyone else notice that the finish on the gun barrel is the exact same texture that they used for the PS3 DMC demo? Awesome shots all around, despite the fact that the last shot is a bit too colorful for me-- sorta like Resident Shenmue. I'd prefer something a bit grittier, if not altogether dark.

 

[SolidSnakex]

I fully expect it to look "like" that too. But look closer, you can tell it's concept art. Unless the developers have come up with a filter that makes things look like paintings.

That scene is in the trailer.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

That scene is in the trailer.

Well color me stupid. *pun intended*

*Sal's cred takes 101 damage*

*Sal's credhealth is now 3*

 

[Red Blaster]

You think the Gundam demo isn't possible on the 360? Its running off just the PPE and some geforce cards. Nothing about that is more powerful than the 360.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm sure it is possible on 360. I'm just wondering why DoA4 looks as unimpressive as it does, especially considering how powerful the 360 is allegedly gonna be. I'll leave it at that, don't wanna drive this thread down the wrong road.

 

[olimario]

I fully expect it to look "like" that too. But look closer, you can tell it's concept art. Unless the developers have come up with a filter that makes things look like paintings.

Hrmm... I'm not seeing what you are. It looks in line with the rest of the screens all taken from the video.

 

[Outdoor Miner]

Hrmm... I'm not seeing what you are. It looks in line with the rest of the screens all taken from the video.

>

 

[Pimpwerx]

This wasn't the most impressive thing shown at the PS3 presser. I don't know why it wouldn't be possible and then some. I actually expect it to improve over this, b/c as many people bitched about the Ni-Oh demo, this ain't any better. It's still just one character in a corridor/alley. How is it not possible? The only questionable thing is the screen resolution. It's not 720p or 1080p. But otherwise, the level of detail (textures and geometry) are what we should expect next-gen. Seeing stuff like Lair and Ni-Oh, and even the older stuff like Fight Night and Molina make it apparent to me that there's definitely a smaller gap to CG-level visuals. What's so hard to replicate here? I'd like to know. PEACE.

 

[Shogmaster]

While I expect to 360 to be pretty powerful, how come all the work in progress stuff on it looks pretty meh for next-gen, while the PS3's work in progress stuff (such as the Gundam demo, from a second rate developer, no less) looks quite a bit better?

Why do people keep forgeting the differences in the dev kits when it's not for a X360 trolling? It's far easier to work on dev kits that are 75~80% of final hardware power than on kits that are 25~33%.

MS took a big gamble on the Xenos, and this pre-Beta kit development period is the price they'll have to pay for such innovation in the GPU design since no existing GPU can be used to approximate it's features and powers in the dev kits until the final GPU design taped out and was manufactured. Simply using multiple X800/850 in the X360 Alpha kit was not an option for MS (far different architecture, no multi GPU ATI option available in G5 PowerMacs), where as it was fairly simple for Sony to get 6800SLI or G70 to mimic RSX in it's PS3 Alpha kits.

 

[Wunderchu]

This wasn't the most impressive thing shown at the PS3 presser. I don't know why it wouldn't be possible and then some. I actually expect it to improve over this, b/c as many people bitched about the Ni-Oh demo, this ain't any better. It's still just one character in a corridor/alley. How is it not possible? The only questionable thing is the screen resolution. It's not 720p or 1080p. But otherwise, the level of detail (textures and geometry) are what we should expect next-gen. Seeing stuff like Lair and Ni-Oh, and even the older stuff like Fight Night and Molina make it apparent to me that there's definitely a smaller gap to CG-level visuals. What's so hard to replicate here? I'd like to know. PEACE.

I agree ... as I posted in the Team Xbox Forums (here: http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=361407 ):




I do expect the graphics of Resident Evil / Biohazard 5 will look very close to what is shown in these pics. [although likely with visible aliasing, unlike the completely smooth edges seen in these pics (even with 4x AA , the edges will not be as smooth as in these pics)]


... after all, Resident Evil / Biohazard 4 already has this level of graphics, and it's 'only' on the GCN:

[source: http://media.cube.ign.com/media/015/015821/imgs_5.html ]

[source: http://media.cube.ign.com/media/015/015821/img_2526621.html ]

It's far easier to work on dev kits that are 75~80% of final hardware power than on kits that are 25~33%.

MS took a big gamble on the Xenos, and this pre-Beta kit development period is the price they'll have to pay for such innovation in the GPU design since no existing GPU can be used to approximate it's features and powers in the dev kits until the final GPU design taped out and was manufactured. Simply using multiple X800/850 in the X360 Alpha kit was not an option for MS (far different architecture, no multi GPU ATI option available in G5 PowerMacs), where as it was fairly simple for Sony to get 6800SLI or G70 to mimic RSX in it's PS3 Alpha kits.

I agree .... another thing, the X800 doesn't even have shader model 3.0 support, while the GeForce 6800 does.....

 

[Izzy]

It's amazing what devs are pulling off PS3 this early.

 

[olimario]

This wasn't the most impressive thing shown at the PS3 presser. I don't know why it wouldn't be possible and then some. I actually expect it to improve over this, b/c as many people bitched about the Ni-Oh demo, this ain't any better. It's still just one character in a corridor/alley. How is it not possible? The only questionable thing is the screen resolution. It's not 720p or 1080p. But otherwise, the level of detail (textures and geometry) are what we should expect next-gen. Seeing stuff like Lair and Ni-Oh, and even the older stuff like Fight Night and Molina make it apparent to me that there's definitely a smaller gap to CG-level visuals. What's so hard to replicate here? I'd like to know. PEACE.

This is leagues better than the Ni-Oh demo. The character is more detailed, the environment is more detailed, the lighting and shadowing are better, and the animation is top notch.

The number of things happening on screen does not dictate how impressive a title is.

 

[dicklaurent]

Why was there no BI O HA ZARD FIVE voice in the vid? That's all I'm wondering about.

 

[SolidSnakex]

This wasn't the most impressive thing shown at the PS3 presser.

I'd put Gundam atleast on the same level as this. I doubt it'll be anywhere near as good as RE5 when they're both done, and RE5 isn't coming out for several years. But the mech modeling in Gundam is downright amazing.

 

[Pimpwerx]

Why do people keep forgeting the differences in the dev kits when it's not for a X360 trolling? It's far easier to work on dev kits that are 75~80% of final hardware power than on kits that are 25~33%.

MS took a big gamble on the Xenos, and this pre-Beta kit development period is the price they'll have to pay for such innovation in the GPU design since no existing GPU can be used to approximate it's features and powers in the dev kits until the final GPU design taped out and was manufactured. Simply using multiple X800/850 in the X360 Alpha kit was not an option for MS (far different architecture, no multi GPU ATI option available in G5 PowerMacs), where as it was fairly simple for Sony to get 6800SLI or G70 to mimic RSX in it's PS3 Alpha kits.

GoW ran off a 6800SLI setup. I don't think the featureset is the problem, just the USA. But if they're targeting the final hardware, I don't see what the big issue is with the visuals? For a trailer, you can pack in all the effects and just run at a really shitty framerate and speed it up. OTOH, for realtime stuff, that's the only time they need to cut effects out. And it's not like the PS3 dev kits are gonna be fully-featured either. Missing bandwidth, plus whatever extras RSX has (if any). Some of the 360 stuff was just crap. Kinda like I-8 and Project Force look fairly underwhelming compared to the other stuff shown. But stuff like GoW and PGR3 still look good, so I don't think blaming the kits is appropriate.

Remember, a lot of that stuff is coming from PC devs. They were never the benchmark setters in the console market. PEACE.

 

[dicklaurent]

I'd put Gundam atleast on the same level as this. I doubt it'll be anywhere near as good as RE5 when they're both done, and RE5 isn't coming out for several years. But the mech modeling in Gundam is downright amazing.

Wasn't the Gundam thing pre-rendered?

 

[SolidSnakex]

Wasn't the Gundam thing pre-rendered?

The one shown at the Playstation Conference was real time.

 

[Pimpwerx]

This is leagues better than the Ni-Oh demo. The character is more detailed, the environment is more detailed, the lighting and shadowing are better, and the animation is top notch.

The number of things happening on screen does not dictate how impressive a title is.

They're both just scripted trailers. Neither is gameplay. But Ni-Oh had a very detailed main character (as evidenced by the video opening), and multiple guys in a battle. RE5's trailer was one character, of similar detail (though I should refrain from saying that until we get direct-feed shots) in a corridor. RE5 looks good, but the best thing we've seen so far? I don't think so. I think when we get direct-feed shots of Lair and Gundam and Ni-Oh, it's not gonna stand out. It's a limited trailer. The game is not 3-5 years off, but it should still have a good year or more worth of dev left on it. If the next-gen can't pull that off, then why bother shelling out money? PEACE.

 

[Straightballin]

No they actually played it during the confrence.

 

[Wunderchu]

I don't think the featureset is the problem

AFAIK, shader model 3.0+ compared to shader model 2.0a is quite a significant difference, IMO....

 

[Bluemercury]

The one shown at the Playstation Conference was real time.

Someone in this forum who was at conference said this was embarassing......

 

[Shogmaster]

GoW ran off a 6800SLI setup. I don't think the featureset is the problem, just the USA. But if they're targeting the final hardware, I don't see what the big issue is with the visuals? For a trailer, you can pack in all the effects and just run at a really shitty framerate and speed it up. OTOH, for realtime stuff, that's the only time they need to cut effects out. And it's not like the PS3 dev kits are gonna be fully-featured either. Missing bandwidth, plus whatever extras RSX has (if any). Some of the 360 stuff was just crap. Kinda like I-8 and Project Force look fairly underwhelming compared to the other stuff shown. But stuff like GoW and PGR3 still look good, so I don't think blaming the kits is appropriate.

Remember, a lot of that stuff is coming from PC devs. They were never the benchmark setters in the console market. PEACE.

You're fucking kidding me, right Duane? X800/850 is NOTHING like the Xenos! All the work devs have done so far is just well educated guesswork based on info MS and ATI gives them on how things are suppose to work on the final GPU. They just can't try stuff and test them out on the actual hardware until they get the Beta! It is like flying sorely based on instrumentation. It is NOT the optimal way of doing development.

How can someone so obsessed and versed in 3D technology can't grasp that simple concept?!?

 

[Wario64]

Someone in this forum who was at conference said this was embarassing......

i remember reading somewhere that the game was hardly utilizing full power...but yeah, it did look pretty bleh

 

[olimario]

They're both just scripted trailers. Neither is gameplay. But Ni-Oh had a very detailed main character (as evidenced by the video opening), and multiple guys in a battle. RE5's trailer was one character, of similar detail (though I should refrain from saying that until we get direct-feed shots) in a corridor. RE5 looks good, but the best thing we've seen so far? I don't think so. I think when we get direct-feed shots of Lair and Gundam and Ni-Oh, it's not gonna stand out. It's a limited trailer. The game is not 3-5 years off, but it should still have a good year or more worth of dev left on it. If the next-gen can't pull that off, then why bother shelling out money? PEACE.

Chris and the Ni-Oh guy are not comparable. I think most will agree.

 

[Striek]

Why do people keep forgeting the differences in the dev kits when it's not for a X360 trolling? It's far easier to work on dev kits that are 75~80% of final hardware power than on kits that are 25~33%.

How is the PS3 kit 75%? Its CPU is running at 75% (maybe less SPEs), the exact same speed the X360 CPU is running at; 75% (only 2 cores).
Then you have a huge difference in bandwidth between devkits...supposedly current devkits only have 1/10th of the bandwidth between CELL <=> GPU as there will be between CELL <=> RSX.

 

[dicklaurent]

The one shown at the Playstation Conference was real time.

Oh, ulp.. only seen the E3 one. :|

 

[Redbeard]

Someone in this forum who was at conference said this was embarassing......

I think he said that what was embarassing was that the demo consisted of little more than walking a pretty-looking robot down a street until a cutscene was triggered.

Even though the mechs look really good they look pretty simple; nowhere near the detail of what we're seeing in RE5.

 

[Shogmaster]

How is the PS3 kit 75%? Its CPU is running at 75% (maybe less SPEs), the exact same speed the X360 CPU is running at; 75% (only 2 cores).

Cell in the devkit is just an underclocked version of the Cell that will be in the final machine. The CPUs in the X360 dev kit is hardly the same as the CPU in the X360. XeCPU is designed for multithreaded, multicore FLOPs performance (2 hardware threads per core x 3 cores = 6 hardware threads @3.2Ghz). The G5 2.5Ghz is single threaded, and is a OOOE integer monster instead of in order FLOPs monster. It's a night and day difference.

Then you have a huge difference in bandwidth between devkits...supposedly current devkits only have 1/10th of the bandwidth between CELL <=> GPU as there will be between CELL <=> RSX.

That could be easily be remedied by having faster (or more) local RAM on the GPU for the kit. It's not big as a deal than using GPU with totally diefferent architecture.

 

[Pimpwerx]

You're fucking kidding me, right Duane? X800/850 is NOTHING like the Xenos! All the work devs have done so far is just well educated guesswork based on info MS and ATI gives them on how things are suppose to work on the final GPU. They just can't try stuff and test them out on the actual hardware until they get the Beta! It is like flying sorely based on instrumentation. It is NOT the optimal way of doing development.

How can someone so obsessed and versed in 3D technology can't grasp that simple concept?!?

The Xenos dev kits out since E3 had more final hardware in them. And most games shown were not playable. If Epic can slap together a 6800SLI rig to run their game in realtime, why can't other devs use a similar rig to emulate the effects they want to get in final hardware? SM3.0 is support in the 6800. It's about the effects, not the framerate. Are you expecting a big leap over the E3 stuff shown? I'm very skeptical of that. I expect incremental improvements for both Sony and MS's games. I don't see why devs would produce demos on SM2.0 hardware when they have a launch 4-6 months earlier than Sony. Yet Sony devs used a year old card that supported SM3.0 in order to better approximate the end result. Hell, use post-process/render packages to show what the final product will look like. The dev kit argument is tired and beat. If it was a Capcom or Konami or EA saying this, then I'd believe it. But it's mostly been a bunch of PC devs making what amount to excuses for producing visuals that didn't look much beyond high-end PC games.

Don't get me wrong, there will be improvements. But between now and launch, how much time is there to add effects AND tighten code? Something's gotta give here. I look at what the best dev on the Xbox is doing with the 360 now, and I laugh. DOA4 isn't next-gen, it's lighting diminishes the other improvements that have been made. If final dev kits start pumping out killer visuals all of a sudden, I'll gladly eat crow. But GoW and PGR3 are whipping the shit out of the competition visually so far, and they have access to the same dev kits as anyone else. And if GoW can utilize a year-old card to help replicate some of the SM3.0 effects, other devs should be able to do the same. Come Monday, it's time to put up or shut up for a lot of the 360 devs. The hardware is capable of more. I'm not convinced some of these PC devs are up to the challenge though. PEACE.

 

[Wunderchu]

How is the PS3 kit 75%? Its CPU is running at 75% (maybe less SPEs), the exact same speed the X360 CPU is running at; 75% (only 2 cores).
Then you have a huge difference in bandwidth between devkits...supposedly current devkits only have 1/10th of the bandwidth between CELL <=> GPU as there will be between CELL <=> RSX.

you have a point, IMO.. the power of the PS3 dev. kit seemed to be a lot less powerful than final hardware, as well ...

remember what Mark Rein said:

On PS3 dev kit:

"Any time we created any content it looked exactly the same on PC as it did on PS3. The only thing was, even though we had these ass-kicking Nvidia 6800 Ultra SLI systems, when we got the actual RSX card, even though it's not running anywhere near full speed, it was more than twice as fast as our SLI setup."

[source: http://www.ga-forum.com/showthread.php?t=55531 ]

 

[MrSingh]

OK here's a tip for the tards in this thread (too many of them to count). the RE5 video shown at the PS show was created on 360 kit.

Carry on.

*edit ^running^created

 

[AtomicShroom]

Must. Contain. Drool.

 

[sangreal]

OK here's a tip for the tards in this thread (too many of them to count). the RE5 video shown at the PS show was running on 360 kit.

Carry on.

:lol if true

 

[Suikoguy]

OK here's a tip for the tards in this thread (too many of them to count). the RE5 video shown at the PS show was running on 360 kit.

Carry on.

And, your proof is?

 

[anthony]

i love you yellow ace :lol

 

[Pimpwerx]

OK here's a tip for the tards in this thread (too many of them to count). the RE5 video shown at the PS show was created on 360 kit.

Carry on.

*edit ^running^created

Created? You mean on the incomplete dev kits? No way. They are not the powerful enoughs. :lol That said, it's very much possible, and I don't expect the trailer at the 360 presser to look any different than this. This should be easily attainable by both machines. It's the fucking next-gen, people. PEACE.

 

[Kleegamefan]

jesus....the direct feed shots look insane...

 

[MightyHedgehog]

This should be easily attainable by both machines. It's the fucking next-gen, people. PEACE.

Indeed. Why some people think this shit is somehow a strain on X360 and not PS3 boggles the mind.

 

[Shogmaster]

The Xenos dev kits out since E3 had more final hardware in them. And most games shown were not playable. If Epic can slap together a 6800SLI rig to run their game in realtime, why can't other devs use a similar rig to emulate the effects they want to get in final hardware?


SM3.0 is support in the 6800. It's about the effects, not the framerate. Are you expecting a big leap over the E3 stuff shown? I'm very skeptical of that. I expect incremental improvements for both Sony and MS's games. I don't see why devs would produce demos on SM2.0 hardware when they have a launch 4-6 months earlier than Sony. Yet Sony devs used a year old card that supported SM3.0 in order to better approximate the end result. Hell, use post-process/render packages to show what the final product will look like. The dev kit argument is tired and beat. If it was a Capcom or Konami or EA saying this, then I'd believe it. But it's mostly been a bunch of PC devs making what amount to excuses for producing visuals that didn't look much beyond high-end PC games.

Don't get me wrong, there will be improvements. But between now and launch, how much time is there to add effects AND tighten code? Something's gotta give here. I look at what the best dev on the Xbox is doing with the 360 now, and I laugh. DOA4 isn't next-gen, it's lighting diminishes the other improvements that have been made. If final dev kits start pumping out killer visuals all of a sudden, I'll gladly eat crow. But GoW and PGR3 are whipping the shit out of the competition visually so far, and they have access to the same dev kits as anyone else. And if GoW can utilize a year-old card to help replicate some of the SM3.0 effects, other devs should be able to do the same. Come Monday, it's time to put up or shut up for a lot of the 360 devs. The hardware is capable of more. I'm not convinced some of these PC devs are up to the challenge though. PEACE.

There seems to be two camps on how they are targetting performance:

1st camp aims high and hopes that they didn't overshoot the target with what their engine can do on the final hardware. This is definitely riskier, but the payoff will be greater (EPic with GoW).

For Epic, the engine is not a moving target, since for all intents and purposes is finished. And they are taking a little bit of a gamble that the engoine will run at the speed they are expecting on the Xenos with the assets they ahve created on the UE3 engine. They need to target the geometry and other assets in the dark, based on guestimates. If they are off, then it will mean they will have to live with slower framerate or take out number of characters since it will be nigh impossible to remodel everything with lower polycount.

2nd camp aims low (most of the X360 devs fit here) with the Alpha kit work, and with the arrival of the Beta kit, they will add FXs and assetts as the engine allows. This is obviously far safer method, but is generating the most of the initial backlash against the X360.

The fact is, Duane, we are just seeing the beginnings of adding of FXs and assetts in X360 games in the second camp. So your ass will have to remain a bit more patient.

Anywho, I don't expect any of the first gen X360 games to be anywhere near representative of what the hardware is really capable of. Not even PGR3 and GoW.

 

[Pimpwerx]

There seems to be two camps on how they are targetting performance:

1st camp aims high and hopes that they didn't overshoot the target with what their engine can do on the final hardware. This is definitely riskier, but the payoff will be greater (EPic with GoW).

For Epic, the engine is not a moving target, since for all intents and purposes is finished. And they are taking a little bit of a gamble that the engoine will run at the speed they are expecting on the Xenos with the assets they ahve created on the UE3 engine. They need to target the geometry and other assets in the dark, based on guestimates. If they are off, then it will mean they will have to live with slower framerate or take out number of characters since it will be nigh impossible to remodel everything with lower polycount.

2nd camp aims low (most of the X360 devs fit here) with the Alpha kit work, and with the arrival of the Beta kit, they will add FXs and assetts as the engine allows. This is obviously far safer method, but is generating the most of the initial backlash against the X360.

The fact is, Duane, we are just seeing the beginnings of adding of FXs and assetts in X360 games in the second camp. So your ass will have to remain a bit more patient.

Anywho, I don't expect any of the first gen X360 games to be anywhere near representative of what the hardware is really capable of. Not even PGR3 and GoW.

We'll see. But we agree on the last part. This is the tip of the iceberg. Next-gen is gonna own us all. PEACE.

 

[PG2G]

How is the PS3 kit 75%? Its CPU is running at 75% (maybe less SPEs), the exact same speed the X360 CPU is running at; 75% (only 2 cores).
Then you have a huge difference in bandwidth between devkits...supposedly current devkits only have 1/10th of the bandwidth between CELL <=> GPU as there will be between CELL <=> RSX.

The real problem with the dev kits isn't so much the CPUs, its the GPUs. The PS3 dev kits have been running on (I think) 6800 Ultra SLI and G70s, which is obviously a much better approximation of the console's power than a X800 is. Especially when you consider that the X800 is neither unified (edit: oops) nor shader model 3.0. I think X360 has been at an obvious disadvantage as far as developement hardware is concerned.

 

[Kleegamefan]

I have to admit some of the early PS3 stuff are REALLY impressive in my eyes...

Hopefully we will see some stuff at this level on Monday...

I would think X360 is actually in the ballpark of PS3 graphically but the stuff sofar doesn't show it at all...

Again, for something that is supposed to be inferior to X360 in the areas of AA, the image quality of these PS3 games looked pretty damn good to me...

X360 and PS3....bring them both on I say

 

[RonaldoSan]

I can see why Sal would see it as a concept art. The blurry parts is caused by the lightning and some haze effect.

I don't see why Capcom wouldn't give us what they show us. I mean sure they made changes to RE4 since initially shown but it was still the same technology.

 

[Prine]

OK here's a tip for the tards in this thread (too many of them to count). the RE5 video shown at the PS show was created on 360 kit.

Carry on.

*edit ^running^created

beta kits?

WOW that really is fucking impressive

 

[jett]

Xdudes, you really need to lift up your expectations a bit. Not everything that looks kickass is gonna be CG.

 

[Kleegamefan]

beta kits?

WOW that really is fucking impressive

He was Joking....

It may actually be true, but nothing has been announced yet as to whether the RE5 we are seeing was developed on PS3 or X360

My guess is PS3...

 

[rod]

You should wait for the PS3 so you can play it on a next-gen system instead.

shut up anihawk...just shut up