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Stilton Disco
Member
On a far more cheerful note, and because my wife is awesome, I got home to find this waiting for me:
She's done with this Doctor Woke retardeness too basically.
She's done with this Doctor Woke retardeness too basically.
In my opinion, they should have retired or at least sidelined the original doctor, then freely design the female doctor as a new timelord. That would have gotten me personally interested. Instead I instantly feared the worst, especially since the change came after/at a time where the whole *turn established charachters female* woke party was in full force.
Sadly, it came true and it broke my already shaken relationship with Doctor Who. The Sarah Jane Adventures (RIP Elisabeth) I will remember fondly in comparison.
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Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Not all the potential was explored yet.
She clearly has all her limbs intact, GTFO with this overprivileged woman.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Ever since Tom Baker's Doctor had Romana as a sidekick, I've wanted a Doctor Who show that features a female Time Lord companion where The Doctor plays a minor role.
Instead we get a female Doctor playing a minor role to the rest of the ethnically and age diverse companions.
nush
Gold Member
On a far more cheerful note, and because my wife is awesome, I got home to find this waiting for me:
She's done with this Doctor Woke retardeness too basically.
Wow that's ace!
Stilton Disco
Member
Hey now, Michelle Gomez's Missy is easily in the top three versions of the character, and is exactly the kind of reimagining of a character we want: not woke, just competent casting.Just reading random stuff about the series and I got a laugh out of the pictures of The Master on Wikipedia lol, pretty easy to see when we hit current year. Female Master, PoC Master, where will they go next?
The new guy is, well it's hard to tell whether he's miscast or that the writing and directing is just shit, but he's certainly not shown any reason for why he's been cast in such a major role so far.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Capaldi is brilliant - he had some really shit material to work with but he dragged it out of the mire. His work as Malcolm Tucker does make him a personal favourite of mine outside of Doctor Who of course.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
This isn't a unique phenomena. My wife's to the left of me, fairly woke tbh but even she has hit a point of boredom with the overt preaching to be found on some shows (The Last Leg really pissed her off with this stuff).
Nymphae
Banned
I haven't seen those portrayals so I'm not saying they're bad until I have, my point was that you can clearly see when wokeness became a factor in casting. That woman actually really looks the part though from some pictures I've seen, she's got the eyes.
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
My wife got hounded on Facebook because she belongs to a Doctor Who group and said she was sick of the new show preaching so much and that for that reason she preferred the older series - in particular the Tom Baker era.
She got dogpiled by all the "Well you must be some kind of Trump-loving bigot" comments that she left the group and we decided we just won't be watching the new episodes and have officially given up on Doctor Who. All this "if you're not with us, you're against us" rhetoric of today get so, so tiresome.
GreyHorace
Member
I left a Witcher group on facebook after I called out a bunch of people accusing others of racism when they complained about the woke casting choices. Even after I pointed out that labeling people as racist is a pretty cheap way to win an argument and just used to silence dissenting voices.
But nope. People were having none of it. The Witcher is their diverse show of choice at the moment and no one's taking it away from them. I just want to enjoy my genre media in peace so I up and left.
As for Doctor Who, yeah, I'm not watching any more of it after the stunt they pulled in that Judoon episode. Bringing Jack Harness back? Okay. Obviously a ratings stunt to pull back the old fans. Nothing too offensive. But having a black woman be an early incarnation of the Doctor and implying she's earlier than Hartnell? Okay. Fuck you Chibnall.
Nymphae
Banned
Pretty off topic, but this just made me think about Dawson's Creek which I've been watching lately, and it is kind of mindblowing in a 2020 sense how white that show is. Not a single black character for like the first 3 seasons. It wasn't all that long ago that huge mainstream shows could get away with this. What dark ages! I'm on the like fourth season and they just finally brought in a female PoC character that is the exact same as Dawson but smarter, wittier, and a better film director.
GreyHorace
Member
And in Doctor Who's 50 plus year history, we didn't have a regular POC character until Noel Clarke's Mickey Smith in the NuSeries premiere in 2005. And then the first true companion of color arrived in 2007.
Not that I minded. I thought Martha Jones was a good companion and while they did acknowledge her skin color in some moments it was done in a fun manner and not really made a big deal out of. What made her stand out though was that she had an actual personality and was played by a good actress like Freema Agyeman.
These two new POC companions? I couldn't give a shit about them. Hell, I can't even remember their names because they're so dull and uninteresting. Chibnall and his writers forgot to give these POCs any actual character to make viewers relate to them. The old white guy is actually the most likable one but that's probably because Bradley Walsh is such a good actor.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Missy was excellent. I’m quite happy to let them have that one, because she was well written and her acting was fantastic, very charismatic.
-Arcadia-
Banned
And in Doctor Who's 50 plus year history, we didn't have a regular POC character until Noel Clarke's Mickey Smith in the NuSeries premiere in 2005. And then the first true companion of color arrived in 2007.
Not that I minded. I thought Martha Jones was a good companion and while they did acknowledge her skin color in some moments it was done in a fun manner and not really made a big deal out of. What made her stand out though was that she had an actual personality and was played by a good actress like Freema Agyeman.
These two new POC companions? I couldn't give a shit about them. Hell, I can't even remember their names because they're so dull and uninteresting. Chibnall and his writers forgot to give these POCs any actual character to make viewers relate to them. The old white guy is actually the most likable one but that's probably because Bradley Walsh is such a good actor.
Back when black characters, or characters of different races were inspired creative/casting choices, and a true part of the show that people loved, instead of a diversity checklist.
The pandering, like many things woke, is ironically kind of racist.
goldenpp72
Member
My problem with him is that he was intentionally downplaying the quirky aspects of the character. Every iteration basically had a physical quirk or something interesting about their costume.
10th Doctor eschewed the costume quirks entirely, and literally is just a dude with a leather jacket. He did not look out of place on modern Earth 2005 in the slightest, and that's what I found off-putting. Eccleston was really good actually, but his Doctor didn't look enough like what I know the doctor to be.
Yeah he was good but felt very normal, he was also short lived and followed immediately by tennent so that likely didn't help his long term rep.
Furlong
Banned
I never found any of the new Doctors likable, they just seemed like gurning twats to me.
Stilton Disco
Member
Ok, each to their own and all that, but if we're going to start throwing accusations of gurning and twattery around, there are plenty of examples of both in Classic who.
Most notably in Tom Baker infact, whose greatest ever portrayal of the character, is a Brian Blessed level massive ham who switched between acting like a borderline psychopath one moment to as if he had suffered some form of brain damage then next, and was bloody glorious.
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Furlong
Banned
Tom Bakers performance worked because he is an eccentric person in real life. By his own admission he was just playing himself most of the time. The new Doctors were trying to act eccentric by shouting and pulling funny faces, and it was awful to watch.
Stilton Disco
Member
Regardless of whether it was deliberate acting or good casting, the behavior was still a part of existing Doctor Who characteristics both durint and even before Tom Baker, with Patrick Troughton and John Pertwee making use of overly exagerated facial expressions as well as both scripted and interpreted rude and eccentric behaviours during their runs, both traits continued by Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy.
I'd go so far as to say only Matt smith and Peter Capaldi really employ Gurning and Twattish behaviour infact, with Christopher Eccleston being far more subdued than is normal for a Doctor, a deliberate choice on his and Russel T Davis part.
David Tennant meanwhile, is pretty much being himself but excitable or angry, and even then it's dialled down from a similar performance in Casanova, and with a London-ish accent, which was a deliberate choice on his part because he saw the Doctor as effectively 'Rose's Doctor' after she'd helped his previous incarnation so much.
Basically, you're both slagging the show off for being consistent with itself and exaggerating the issue.
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Orpheum
Member
Good question. It's possible to turn it around at least. I mean the walking dead season 7 and 8 were fucking awful and they definitely improved with no. 9 and 10
Nymphae
Banned
Just bought Tom Baker Season 1 blu ray. I fear I may have fallen down a very deep rabbit hole here lol...
I wish these things had more organized releases. If you search on amazon for Doctor Who DVDs/Blurays, there is a ton of stuff and it's hard to know what has been released for purchase. I don't get why they just don't start at Doctor 1 and do them chronologically. Like you can find weird assortments of seasons on blu ray, you can get some seasons from pretty much every one of the doctors, but nothing is complete yet. Like they have Tom Baker season 1 and....7? wtf.
I mean I was digging around wikipedia pages for DW home releases, and it's just really deep and confusing....this is from an article on a doctor who wiki about the releases
Why can't they just pick a numbering convention and make it universal......
I wish these things had more organized releases. If you search on amazon for Doctor Who DVDs/Blurays, there is a ton of stuff and it's hard to know what has been released for purchase. I don't get why they just don't start at Doctor 1 and do them chronologically. Like you can find weird assortments of seasons on blu ray, you can get some seasons from pretty much every one of the doctors, but nothing is complete yet. Like they have Tom Baker season 1 and....7? wtf.
I mean I was digging around wikipedia pages for DW home releases, and it's just really deep and confusing....this is from an article on a doctor who wiki about the releases
Why can't they just pick a numbering convention and make it universal......
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#Phonepunk#
Banned
they need a Missy spin off show. she is easily one of the best characters in the entire show's run.
pretty much impossible. iirc the BBC had destroyed or lost many tapes for the Doctor Who show over the decades it has been on. this is especially for the early seasons. often we have an entire show's audio but no video, possibly storyboard or still photos. every now and then new episodes or footage surfaces from the collectors scene, and it gets included by archivists in new releases. sometimes you will get partial episodes made from what content is available at the time. count in the idea that they were releasing stuff in all the decades, and it's a bit of a mess lol. Tom Baker is always a good choice IMO.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
Part of the issue is that a lot of the episodes simply don't exist any more. The BBC haven't done a great job of maintaining their older content.
Nester99
Member
I hope this season/version ends with some huge battle between the Doctor and the master that ends up with both of their deaths. During the regenerations, something gets quirky and nice hopefull helpfully person is created along with a dark brooding person. Memories are bit off and intertwined due to the quirky part previously mentioned.
The Doctors companions assume the “hopefull and helpful nice one” is the doctor and they go on a whole year of fun and fantastic adventure, stoping the dark brooding character a few time along the way. Two season later we find out the guy we thought was the do it or is actually the master and the dark brooding guy is the doctor and the companions have actually been helping the master do horrible things masking it as “virtue”. The doctor revived himself, saves the day and we all learn not to judge a book by its regeneration!
The Doctors companions assume the “hopefull and helpful nice one” is the doctor and they go on a whole year of fun and fantastic adventure, stoping the dark brooding character a few time along the way. Two season later we find out the guy we thought was the do it or is actually the master and the dark brooding guy is the doctor and the companions have actually been helping the master do horrible things masking it as “virtue”. The doctor revived himself, saves the day and we all learn not to judge a book by its regeneration!
Nymphae
Banned
So is that why they are releasing the "complete" blu ray collections in weird sequences? I'm aware of the missing episode issue, but from what I read today, this current line of blue ray collections is intended to be a complete work, as complete as possible. Why release Tom Baker season 1 and 7, are those "complete" seasons? It's a bit of a bummer for big fans for sure. I've read there are quite a few patched up episodes that have the complete audio over production still or what not, several animated attempts., it would be nice if they got these on the BR collections going forward.
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Urprobablyright
Banned
I think the general standard of fantasy that we're exposed to is on such a steepening curve that Doctor Who has been running on nostalgia fumes for both the current Dr and Lewis Capaldi. I think the Tennant (and that guy before him) reboot had a shelf life and it expired around the start of the last decade. A new generation picked it up and were encouraged to love it by enthusiastic parents, but that generation is getting tired of it and the new generations are resistant to the strain~
The kind of rapid fire special effects and cgi of a tv series that is hugely repetitive.. what was once perhaps a series of episodic touchstones for us to soak up (the doctor's wit, the mortal companion's eventual savvy and mastery, the fate of the world in the balance, the returning faces with even worse savvy and mastery smirks...) now fails to stand up to comparison with a fair slice of the computer games that have been coming out.
And i have no idea but i guess Netflix would probably have something to do with it too~
The kind of rapid fire special effects and cgi of a tv series that is hugely repetitive.. what was once perhaps a series of episodic touchstones for us to soak up (the doctor's wit, the mortal companion's eventual savvy and mastery, the fate of the world in the balance, the returning faces with even worse savvy and mastery smirks...) now fails to stand up to comparison with a fair slice of the computer games that have been coming out.
And i have no idea but i guess Netflix would probably have something to do with it too~
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Stilton Disco
Member
Once again, Big Finish have you covered.
The show is over half a century old, has pretty much had constant new good stories made throughout that time, and has constant change built into its very core.
There is pretty much no other show on earth that has such an ability to renew and revitalise itself, and it's been loved by generations of people precisely because of that.
The only problem it has is that it's being made by idiots that care more about spreadung their political beliefs than making any kind of entertainment.
With a good cast, good writers, and an understanding of the fact that it's supposed to be quintessentially British at its core, and it would be fantastic again.
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-Arcadia-
Banned
I can’t help but think that they need to graduate some writers from Big Finish, to writing the actual show. Much better than the, ‘Uh, Chibnall is free, I guess?’ that we ended up with.
Of course though, as long as the BBC is shot through with things like literal diversity quotas, and a focus on agenda over entertainment, I’m not sure it matters who writes the show. It’s simply the wrong era for Doctor Who to exist, and I’m not against it going back into hibernation until a better time, where a creative with a genuine love for the show can give it the spectacular revival it deserves.
Of course though, as long as the BBC is shot through with things like literal diversity quotas, and a focus on agenda over entertainment, I’m not sure it matters who writes the show. It’s simply the wrong era for Doctor Who to exist, and I’m not against it going back into hibernation until a better time, where a creative with a genuine love for the show can give it the spectacular revival it deserves.
BouncyFrag
Member
BBC needs to figure out a way give the 8th Doctor his own series proper. It’s takes him all of three seconds to perfectly convey that he is the Doctor. These 7 minutes put to shame what we’ve gotten with Chibnall these last two seasons.
‘Bring me knitting’ was epic as fuck...lol.
‘Bring me knitting’ was epic as fuck...lol.
GreyHorace
Member
Paul Mcgann was actually my first Doctor. The ill fated TV movie was my first exposure to the series.
Watching it now, it's really not that good. But Mcgann owns the role in that hour and a half so brilliantly. It's really too bad we never got a new series starring him.
Stilton Disco
Member
As awesome as Mcgann was in this, I'm still annoyed by the retcon of John Hurt's super secret Doctor having been the hidden special 'fighty' Doctor that was responsible for all the Time War stuff.
They'd been building up to the Time War for years with Mcganns stories, and as good an actor as Hurt was, he was much less suited to the role of the Doctor, and making him deliberately be a warrior version of the character undermined the pathos and tragedy in the Doctor having been the ultimate optimistic pacifist, that had tried so hard to be a force for good in the universe, only to end up being the biggest monster of them all with more blood, guilt and shame on his hands than either the Time Lords or the Daleks.
Honestly, the more I rhink about it, the more I think the 50th was the turning point where the show stopped being must see TV, and started to become a ratings chasing, gimmick driven brand, willing to do anything to grab a headline, regardless of whether it made sense in canon or what the longterm consequences would be.
And, of course, that blind trend chasing and overuse of shocking twists is exactly the chink in a shows armour far left zealots use to worm their way in.
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
I lost the little interest I had when this lady (who is a good actress) was cast in the role. Her accent and general portrayal is so far from the original idea of DW it just doesn't work for me.
Going back to the gender thing, this is another example of just casting (usually white) women in franchises that were formerly male fronted has crashed and burned. Ghostbusters, Charlie's Angels, MIB, Oceans 15 or whatever that shite was. The list goes on.
Going back to the gender thing, this is another example of just casting (usually white) women in franchises that were formerly male fronted has crashed and burned. Ghostbusters, Charlie's Angels, MIB, Oceans 15 or whatever that shite was. The list goes on.
Doom85
Member
Ocean's 8 actually did pretty well at the box office making over 4 times its budget. It probably helped that A) there wasn't going to be an Ocean's 14, Clooney flat out said he would not want to do an Ocean's sequel without the full team in respect to the late Bernie Mac, and B) it's not like the previous films had a flawless record anyway (most seem to agree 12 isn't bad but definitely a step down from 11 and 13). It's a decent film IMHO, Sandra Bullock and Cate Blanchett have good chemistry together, and I liked Rihanna's character.
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hariseldon
Unconfirmed Member
To me there's no reason it couldn't have worked with a woman. They just chose the wrong one. That and the writing continues to be utter turd.
Nymphae
Banned
I haven't seen a single one of her episodes yet, but I think this is all a damn shame because I really like the aesthetic of the character. It feels decidedly feminine without being unnecessarily sexy, yet also feels completely in line with things the Doctor would wear and has worn in the past.
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Evil Calvin
Afraid of Boobs
I have been a Who fan since the early 80's and must admit that series 11 sucked. This current series 12 is much better but still is tiring having a diverse cast checklist (regulars and guest actors). Jodie still doesn't feel like the Doctor to me (and I was all gung-ho with giving her a chance). Maybe it's the writing or maybe it's the acting, but it doesn't feel right. Also, as someone pointed out earlier, they have a time and space machine but have yet to go off Earth this year. Geez!!!
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Pagusas
Elden Member
She is a great actress but at least for this role, she’s doing a very bad job (and it’s likely the direction and not her). She feels like she’s pretending to be the doctor. It’s not her role, she’s just pantomiming what everyone has done before her. I hate it, it feels cheap, like a knock off cheap China made 10th doctor
Nymphae
Banned
This fire sale on Doctor Who content at Amazon still going strong, I really wonder why it's all being so deeply discounted for such an extended period.
I recently came into a small amount of money burning a hole in my pocket, and I couldn't pass up these sales, I ordered 4 complete Blu Ray seasons (2 Baker, 1 Pertwee, and 1 Davison) and The Five Doctors DVD. I'm trying to stop but everything is so cheap right now.....
I recently came into a small amount of money burning a hole in my pocket, and I couldn't pass up these sales, I ordered 4 complete Blu Ray seasons (2 Baker, 1 Pertwee, and 1 Davison) and The Five Doctors DVD. I'm trying to stop but everything is so cheap right now.....
Caffeine
Member
ye but the earlier stuff is good.
Stilton Disco
Member
Nu Who previously acted as an advertisement for the classic releases.
New fans would get hooked, start picking up the references to older stories, then buy the classic adventures.
With the current series turning people off in droves, I'm hardly surprised interest in the older stories is drying up too.
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Nymphae
Banned
We could probably use a Doctor Who OT. I've recently blew through the Eccleston and Tennant DVD collection I purchased. Halfway through I bought the Smith & Cipaldi collections as well. Man this show is so great. Not sure why I fell off during the Tennant run, it really was incredible. Eccleston's tenure was great, but Tennant really owns the character and the production values were really good throughout that era.
It's a shame the minisodes were not included on these DVD collections, I was reading about some of those, and Time Crash sounded cool so I had to check it out, and it was so great to see Davison and Tennant together. Heartwarming to see him call Davison "his Doctor."
I just started the Smith run, and I'm liking him so far. It's tough to warm up to a new Doctor especially coming off a legendary run like Tennant's, but I think I will like him.
It's a shame the minisodes were not included on these DVD collections, I was reading about some of those, and Time Crash sounded cool so I had to check it out, and it was so great to see Davison and Tennant together. Heartwarming to see him call Davison "his Doctor."
I just started the Smith run, and I'm liking him so far. It's tough to warm up to a new Doctor especially coming off a legendary run like Tennant's, but I think I will like him.
Makariel
Member
Nymphae
Banned
I finally saw the source of a few different gifs, I had always wondered where they were from. Particularly this one, I've always loved the emotion in this one, I figured it was some movie I hadn't seen:
(apologies to those who can't see this gif)
I love Tennant's final words too, I didn't want him to go yet either
jshackles
Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
David Tennant is is also married to Peter Davison's daughter so it's crazy that he's his son-in-law now. His wife Georgia also played his clone daughter Jenny in the episode "The Doctor's Daughter". They met during the filming of that episode. She had a previous child at a young age (who is now 17 himself, an actor, and wants to play The Doctor some day) and the Tennants have four young children together and seem super happy together.
Sometimes real life is crazier than fiction.
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The worst part about all this woke nonsense is that it's just bad and anyone who criticizes is labelled a sexist simply for saying how bad it truly is.
I'm old enough to remember when they were able to write interesting women characters. Xena was a great show (in comparison to Nu Who) as was Buffy the Vampire slayer.
I'm old enough to remember when they were able to write interesting women characters. Xena was a great show (in comparison to Nu Who) as was Buffy the Vampire slayer.
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Doom85
Member
But let's not forget generalizations are used by quite a few anti-SJWs to be just as dismissive of one's opinion.
"Hey, I liked Terminator: Dark Fate."
"Yeah, no surprise, it's there to appeal to SJWs."
"Look, it's not a perfect movie and 1 and 2 are better, but it's the first post-2 Terminator I legit enjoyed."
"Because it had three strong female leads, one of them was Hispanic? That's the only reason you liked it."
"What, no, I just thought they were pretty cool. Plus Arnie's inclusion was well-handled and he also got some badass moments."
"Pssh, the REAL Terminator fans know it sucked. That's why the audience score for RT was so low, while the SJW critic score was so high."
"Actually, the audience score was at 82% and the critic score was only at 70%."
".......SJW."
"Yes, that's certainly a word in your vocabulary."