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EU Sales January 2023 - PS5 up 202%, Xbox down 32%.

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Biggest strength they have is having enough money to not go bankrupt thanks to Sony like 3DO, Atari and Sega did. If Sega had MS money they would still be in the game and Sony would still be steamrolling them.
I think the opposite. If your parent company's money is the only thing that's keeping you in the game even after 20 years in the industry, and not your own contributions/games/brand power, then you have bigger things to worry about.
 
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recma12

Member
Not commenting on sales, but one thing I've very much noticed this gen here in Finland: Xbox has like zero advertising. The only time you really see a Series console being advertised is if a particular store has a sale or somesuch, but nothing from Microsoft. Whereas ads from Sony (and to a lesser extend, Nintendo too) can be found all over - just catching up with a few of my Youtube subscriptions right now and there's a proper (not just gameplay but a scripted and filmed) ad, subtitled to Finnish, for Forbidden West. Even though the game is hardly new.

To me it seems Microsoft is still concentrating their efforts mainly on the US market, which of course is their prerogative, but if you're going for a global audience, you need a global advertising push as well. And if you're thinking "who cares about the ads" - that's just not how things work. You absolutely need marketing.

Same here in Germany.
Xbox marketing is pretty much non existent.
Can't even remember the last time I saw an Xbox TV spot, billboard or sponsoring deal.
I would bet my ass that a vast chunk of the population here doesn't even know what gamepass is and couldn't explain the difference between a XSS and XSX.
By contrast, anytime I watch TV with my daughter a Nintendo spot comes on. Also remember my wife getting a ton of Ring Fit Adventure ads during her "women shows".

I really have no clue why Xbox is cheaping out on EU marketing so much. Just get some football kit deals, run ads on TV, maybe sponsor some events or simply put people into stores with an Xbox kiosk to show off your (pretty good) stuff.
IMO the value proposition for the Series consoles with Gamepass isn't as straightforward as MS thinks, it needs some explaining.

Like, if Xbox did a FIFA 24/Series S bundle for 299€ with 3 months of gamepass and they blast that shit all over TV, football stadiums etc. I do believe people will give it an honest look.
If they continue to sit on their hands while Sony does this (see below), they have no shot.


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PeteBull

Member
No console wars, but does this console EVER have any fucking good news?

It's always "wait for next year", game cancelled, sales down 300%, 900p, etc.

They've been in this thing for 20 years now ffs.
i remember early xbox 360 gen when they got quite a few(some very long timed but no1 knew it was timed) jrpg exlusives, then non x360 users were jelly af, since we love/loved the genre, unlike most of xbox users, was alpha as fuck move and probably at relatively low cost vs what buying activision-blizzard or even bethesda/zenimax is.

What playstation owners wouldnt really want aka start rioting is if ms bought sega/square/capcom/namco bandai since i think thats tons of amazing(forgotten by CEO's who areant really gamers but vastly engraved into players memories) IP's and tons of very passionate and talented devs that just lack proper budget to make japanese gaming great again, all those games back in 80's, 90's, early 2k's had amazing graphics and had a soul, which is often unheard of in shitty current western AAA titles, to not look far- Saints Row reboot or Gotham Knights =/
 

PeteBull

Member
XBO sold ~55M.

MS will be lucky to reach 45M this gen.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One in the wiki they estimating between 51 and 59m for xbox one, basically half of ps4 totals, so indeed, if it goes like that xbox series consoles will have tuff time selling even measly 50m.

Now its almost 3:1 worldwide for ps5 vs xb series consoles, at least according to official data while xbox slows down and playstation gains momentum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
At such a small number of sales there is no way xbox is suply constrained, im sure they hoped at least for 20m+ sales by now, looks like series s basically flopping hard vs ms expectations.
 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_One in the wiki they estimating between 51 and 59m for xbox one, basically half of ps4 totals, so indeed, if it goes like that xbox series consoles will have tuff time selling even measly 50m.

Now its almost 3:1 worldwide for ps5 vs xb series consoles, at least according to official data while xbox slows down and playstation gains momentum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_game_consoles
At such a small number of sales there is no way xbox is suply constrained, im sure they hoped at least for 20m+ sales by now, looks like series s basically flopping hard vs ms expectations.

XB is barely scraping 8m a year these days. If sony can actually hit 30m as rumoured, it could be close to 4:1 worldwide this year. I don't see starfield boosting sales much to combat it.
 

PeteBull

Member
MS needs what every console/platform needs, high quality exclusives, if it has those- consoles will start flying of the shelves(not xss, coz by now its clear most customers dont want it even if price is much cheaper vs xsx/ps5), if it doesnt then yup, big downhill run ahead, we will know soon enough.
 

recma12

Member
i remember early xbox 360 gen when they got quite a few(some very long timed but no1 knew it was timed) jrpg exlusives, then non x360 users were jelly af, since we love/loved the genre, unlike most of xbox users, was alpha as fuck move and probably at relatively low cost vs what buying activision-blizzard or even bethesda/zenimax is.


IMO they kinda stopped trying.
360 mostly did well because:

- cheaper than the PS3 by a good margin
- equivalent or (mostly) better performance than PS3
- high quality games you couldn't play elsewhere (Halo, Gears, Forza)
- full blown marketing campaign
- aggressive "moneyhat" deals for popular 3rd party stuff

There were "alpha as fuck" moves everywhere, as you put it.
Nowadays it feels more like MS has given up.
With X1 and XSX they have cancelled out most of the advantages the 360 had.

The big acquisitions are nice but where are the tangible benefits for Xbox users?
If MS had just moneyhatted Elden Ring (for example) now THAT is a tangible benefit that might make you get an Xbox.

"Well, one day we might get some CoD operator skins that aren't available on PlayStation" isn't.
 
Like, if Xbox did a FIFA 24/Series S bundle for 299€ with 3 months of gamepass and they blast that shit all over TV, football stadiums etc. I do believe people will give it an honest look.
If they continue to sit on their hands while Sony does this (see below), they have no shot.
I don't know. I think software and consumer loyalty is key, meaning some years of must haves are required, not some single titles even if those would be Fifa, Madden or CoD, ie overall more than just good hw and occasional hits. I think pretty much no one would seriously argue that XBX isn't the better hw and I guess most would say GP is very noice especially if you have also a PC, definitely equal or better than Plus (in principle, excluding your games preference), but their audience never expanded beyond what they already were able to gather at 360 days. They have the studios, now, imho maybe even more variety than Sony, but they have to prove their promises and finally actually deliver. And only after a couple of games people will notice and start to trust. Americans have maybe some pride in supporting their company, Japanese lean definitely towards their product, but Europeans have no "natural" loyalty. Here the better platform wins.

I think it was an error but I saw a 260€ Fifa23 bundle for Series S some time ago, iirc right around when it released, and they definitely had the naked Series S for 222 last christmas. Which is imho an insane deal, at a time where PS5 had just its first preorder phase open for anyone and anyone was able to get it if he accepts a wait for maybe until end of january (so just missing out on xmas but I think most got 'em earlier), but PS5s were still not readily available. Weirdly enough XBX stock kind of vanished for a while around xmas and the Forza bundle is now the one you can order at amazon. They sell less and still are somewhat supply constraint themselves.

I guess MS invested also a bit more into streaming. Sony still has not swapped out PS4s and equipped PS5s while MS runs their streams on XBX. No idea about the numbers, but having a couple of thousand reduces their hw sales but increases their MAU numbers since most units will be used somewhat shared.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism

OuterLimits

Member
Up 200% is good but yeah, factor in that the PS5 was extremely difficult to impossible to find in Jan 2022. The numbers are dismal for Xbox though.
 

hinch7

Member
MS needs what every console/platform needs, high quality exclusives, if it has those- consoles will start flying of the shelves(not xss, coz by now its clear most customers dont want it even if price is much cheaper vs xsx/ps5), if it doesnt then yup, big downhill run ahead, we will know soon enough.
Tbh I'm not sure if big exclusives will help on Xbox's trajectory that much. PlayStation has grown so much the last generation and Xbox has shrunk in mindshare with converging interests in TV and movies to games. Microsoft and Xbox just doesn't have that pull with their IP's outside of maybe Elder Scrolls. And even with ES, I'd argue how relevent the IP is and will be going forward. They just don't have a killer app (currently). I mean they do have Halo but that's a franchise tainted and frankly outdated.

I'd also bet that most people who play video games (on consoles) would only consider owning one home console and at the moment PS just has too many games to pass up on.
 
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Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
Yeh but would only change percentage a bit, it's not like PS5 is a predominantly physical copy machine. So:

75% PS5
25% XBS

At best?
Yep, PlayStation's digital ratio is usually ~70%. Even if we assume that Xbox's digital ratio is 80%,

70% of a larger pie would still be significantly higher than 80% of a smaller pie.

Chris even said it himself that "this will likely get a little smaller"

 
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Yep, PlayStation's digital ratio is usually ~70%. Even if we assume that Xbox's digital ratio is 80%,

70% of a larger pie would still be significantly higher than 80% of a smaller pie.

Chris even said it himself that "this will likely get a little smaller"



So he did say a little smaller. So likely not a huge difference between the two (physical vs digital split).
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
So he did say a little smaller. So likely not a huge difference between the two (physical vs digital split).
Yeah, it is mainly because of the larger PlayStation market share and total sales. And because PS already has a very high digital ratio. Even if Xbox's is even higher, it can't have too much of a gulf.

So 82:18 will likely become 78:22 or 75:25 at best, but anything beyond that would be quite unrealistic to expect.
 
Yeah, it is mainly because of the larger PlayStation market share and total sales. And because PS already has a very high digital ratio. Even if Xbox's is even higher, it can't have too much of a gulf.

So 82:18 will likely become 78:22 or 75:25 at best, but anything beyond that would be quite unrealistic to expect.

Yeah I'm not expecting to much of a difference but we will see when they give us the numbers.
 

Ogbert

Member
I still think the answer lies with Gears of War.

MS has managed to the the coolest console game on the face of the planet into a boring, tired old game. They need to completely rework it, make it their evergreen title, like Destiny 2.

PvE, PvP, seasons, loot, everything under the sun.
 

recma12

Member
I don't know. I think software and consumer loyalty is key, meaning some years of must haves are required, not some single titles even if those would be Fifa, Madden or CoD, ie overall more than just good hw and occasional hits. I think pretty much no one would seriously argue that XBX isn't the better hw and I guess most would say GP is very noice especially if you have also a PC, definitely equal or better than Plus (in principle, excluding your games preference), but their audience never expanded beyond what they already were able to gather at 360 days.

Yeah this is a good point as well.
Xbox really picked the wrong generation to drop a turd like the "Xbox One with Kinect".
Digital game purchases and the accounts they are tied to weren't much of a big deal in the PS360 era.
Last gen was the real turning point where everyone made a proper account, bought some games, added some via PS+, created friendslists and shit.
Most of that happened on PSN and PS4, so this makes it extra hard for Xbox to win market share.

A Series S with GPU is a great deal in a vacuum, but not so much when it also means walking away from hundreds of dollars in PSN purchases, trophies and friendslists.
People are lazy and staying in the PS ecosystem is much easier than switching to XBL.

IMO Gamepass will help a but but MS is still paying for their "TV!TV!TV!" sins under Mattrick imo
 
Yeah, it is mainly because of the larger PlayStation market share and total sales. And because PS already has a very high digital ratio. Even if Xbox's is even higher, it can't have too much of a gulf.

So 82:18 will likely become 78:22 or 75:25 at best, but anything beyond that would be quite unrealistic to expect.

thats not great for xbox at all. UK is supposed to be one of its stronger markets, yet they only have a small share of a massive game like harry potter. we already know europe wont be doing them any favors at all. these kinda numbers make it easy for sony to negotiate deals with publishers for marketing or even timed exclusivity.
 

Heisenberg007

Gold Journalism
thats not great for xbox at all. UK is supposed to be one of its stronger markets, yet they only have a small share of a massive game like harry potter. we already know europe wont be doing them any favors at all. these kinda numbers make it easy for sony to negotiate deals with publishers for marketing or even timed exclusivity.
Yes, if these numbers indeed turn out to be like what we're anticipating, your point is very valid and is a big cause of concern.

But it's worth reiterating that these are just estimates at the point, based on data that's currently inaccessible to us. It is possible that the physical + digital data may actually turn out to be wildly different, and the total sales split isn't as bad on PS and Xbox. But let's see.
 
You can toss in standard wireless controllers and achievements which everyone in the industry copied. It's nonsense to claim MS hasn't made significant contributions to the gaming industry.
Yes but all their contributions were with Xbox and it's successor Xbox360.

It has been downhill since then.
 

kaizenkko

Member
Like, if Xbox did a FIFA 24/Series S bundle for 299€ with 3 months of gamepass and they blast that shit all over TV, football stadiums etc. I do believe people will give it an honest look.
If they continue to sit on their hands while Sony does this (see below), they have no shot.
It's a common thought that the Series S is an excellent console for those who only play COD, Fifa, Apex and others, but that couldn't be more wrong. Microsoft has already done this same promotion in other markets and the result was poor.

They lost the possibility of gaining an audience in those two years that Sony was without a stable PS5 stock, but now it's gone.
 
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Yes, if these numbers indeed turn out to be like what we're anticipating, your point is very valid and is a big cause of concern.

But it's worth reiterating that these are just estimates at the point, based on data that's currently inaccessible to us. It is possible that the physical + digital data may actually turn out to be wildly different, and the total sales split isn't as bad on PS and Xbox. But let's see.

theres no way digital will be that different. like you said, best they could get is a 75:25 split. its even worse when you realise that the two consoles are quite close in the UK. software sales really are tanking on xbox. its becoming a small platform for 3rd party games. even for major releases.
 
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PeteBull

Member
Tbh I'm not sure if big exclusives will help on Xbox's trajectory that much. PlayStation has grown so much the last generation and Xbox has shrunk in mindshare with converging interests in TV and movies to games. Microsoft and Xbox just doesn't have that pull with their IP's outside of maybe Elder Scrolls. And even with ES, I'd argue how relevent the IP is and will be going forward. They just don't have a killer app (currently). I mean they do have Halo but that's a franchise tainted and frankly outdated.

I'd also bet that most people who play video games (on consoles) would only consider owning one home console and at the moment PS just has too many games to pass up on.
Thats the only thing that helps, look at switch, graphically their machine is maybe 1,3rd of xbox one( not one x, just plain xbox one that launched in 2013), and most games look somewhere midway ps360 to ps4/xbox one games, some look similar to 2 gens ago aka x360/ps3 games.

Yet it sold already 122m consoles(handhelds, but thats beside the point) official info ofc https://www.polygon.com/23589062/nintendo-switch-third-best-selling-game-console

And whats most curious/weird- its keeps on selling visibly better from xbox series consoles, as we can see in every npd/global sales treads, it only has one advantage over microsoft consoles- and that is high quality exclusive games, it loses big time in online features, graphical power, overall system features and basically everything else.

Hell, recently ninny got so bold( confident?) that their have risen new zelda game price to 70$, and im sure game gonna sell gangbusters, easily 15-20m copies, who knows maybe more if it gets ported to switch 2.
Reason ppl bitching but will be forking up those 70$ is simply quality of the game, and it wont be like- ok i will buy it- it will be- give it into my veins and take away those measily 70bucks.
 

Hendrick's

If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
It is a mindshare problem, Xbox has had little presence for the past few months.

PlayStation has had last of us, god of war, and Harry Potter marketing. That has pushed their brand even further in visibility.

Xbox had has no real news besides firings and Activision blizzard challenges.
Xbox just had a showcase with release dates and dropped a GOTY contender. What has Sony done this year?
 
Yeah, it is mainly because of the larger PlayStation market share and total sales. And because PS already has a very high digital ratio. Even if Xbox's is even higher, it can't have too much of a gulf.

So 82:18 will likely become 78:22 or 75:25 at best, but anything beyond that would be quite unrealistic to expect.

Yeh, 25% at best for Xbox.

It was a masterstroke for Sony to get the marketing rights for the game, as Hogwarts is a juggernaut. Reading the InstallBase forums, people are estimating 20m sold through for the game in less than a year. Franchise will be one of the very biggest going forward if they can get a sequel out in 3-4 years.
 
Xbox just had a showcase with release dates and dropped a GOTY contender. What has Sony done this year?
Games don't sell only on day one and this year started like 6 or 7 weeks ago, lmao.

Sony has been making sure PS5 has stock since January and all their games are climbing up all charts.
They just got a major TV show that also is increasing sales to a game they released last year.
Today they are releasing Returnal on PC and next month TLOU as well.
They will be releasing VR2 in like 2 weeks with god knows how many games, including some developed by their own studios.

In 2 weeks from the 3 console manufacturers, Sony will be the one with more games released this year, and also hardware (VR2 and a new controller).

Your post makes no sense...
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
I still think the answer lies with Gears of War.

MS has managed to the the coolest console game on the face of the planet into a boring, tired old game. They need to completely rework it, make it their evergreen title, like Destiny 2.

PvE, PvP, seasons, loot, everything under the sun.

Coolest? That’s really debatable.

Gears of War was supposed to be an action horror game. Great co op campaign.

Its downfall is actually turning it into a mindless shooter. And you think the answer is more of that?

Gears of War needs to scale down hard, not up imo.
 

hinch7

Member
Thats the only thing that helps, look at switch, graphically their machine is maybe 1,3rd of xbox one( not one x, just plain xbox one that launched in 2013), and most games look somewhere midway ps360 to ps4/xbox one games, some look similar to 2 gens ago aka x360/ps3 games.

Yet it sold already 122m consoles(handhelds, but thats beside the point) official info ofc https://www.polygon.com/23589062/nintendo-switch-third-best-selling-game-console

And whats most curious/weird- its keeps on selling visibly better from xbox series consoles, as we can see in every npd/global sales treads, it only has one advantage over microsoft consoles- and that is high quality exclusive games, it loses big time in online features, graphical power, overall system features and basically everything else.

Hell, recently ninny got so bold( confident?) that their have risen new zelda game price to 70$, and im sure game gonna sell gangbusters, easily 15-20m copies, who knows maybe more if it gets ported to switch 2.
Reason ppl bitching but will be forking up those 70$ is simply quality of the game, and it wont be like- ok i will buy it- it will be- give it into my veins and take away those measily 70bucks.
Thats the thing, on consoles.. if a manufacterer don't have the software to back it up you're not going to get the sales. Most people don't give a crap about specs so long as the games and platform are playable and aren't broken. Just look at Pokemon sales, absolutely doing rounds.

MS has been sitting on its hands for far too long for internal development for games and it has affected the brand and its perception. Last year was pretty bad for MS in terms of content in comparison to what released on the Switch and PS4/5. And by the end of the year lost a lot of momentum from the initial sales. You can have the best subscription service ever but if you don't have essential on there and must play games, it doesn't mean much. People have shown they don't care for prices. Games, consoles or otherwise.
 
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PeteBull

Member
Thats the thing, on consoles.. if a manufacterer don't have the software to back it up you're not going to get the sales. Most people don't give a crap about specs so long as the games and platform are playable and aren't broken. Just look at Pokemon sales, absolutely doing rounds.

MS has been sitting on its hands for far too long for internal development for games and it has affected the brand and its perception. Last year was pretty bad for MS in terms of content in comparison to what released on the Switch and PS4/5. And by the end of the year lost a lot of momentum from the initial sales. You can have the best subscription service ever but if you don't have essential on there and must play games, it doesn't mean much. People have shown they don't care for prices. Games, consoles or otherwise.
Cant disagree here, low instal base= hard to get 3rd party exclusive(they will be very costly), but ms had almost 2,5 years with new console gen aka hard reset of instal base to buy 5-10 high quality exclusives and make sure fans/fanatics of such title buy it/console.

Sony did it with demons souls remaster, ratchet, returnal, so we know its doable/probable even for company thats not as filthy rich, but there has to be actual willingness, like for example hi-fi rush, but not one game, xbox needs 20 such games, asap.

Edit- and lets not forget timed exclusives too, ghostwire tokyo and dealthloop, those are microsoft teams now that made timed exclusives for sony to bump up sales/give more games early in ps5 lifecycle, not like microsoft cant make them spit some quality games now, no?
 
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Sw0pDiller

Member
With all this hope upon Starfield to "save" xbox. This better not be a typical Bethesda launchgame. The succes of the game may not even be measurable with all these GP subscribers not spending any more money. Maybe we can see a bump in GP subs? And the unavoidable "we see a massive surge in users since Starfield launched" twitter?
 

hinch7

Member
Cant disagree here, low instal base= hard to get 3rd party exclusive(they will be very costly), but ms had almost 2,5 years with new console gen aka hard reset of instal base to buy 5-10 high quality exclusives and make sure fans/fanatics of such title buy it/console.

Sony did it with demons souls remaster, ratchet, returnal, so we know its doable/probable even for company thats not as filthy rich, but there has to be actual willingness, like for example hi-fi rush, but not one game, xbox needs 20 such games, asap.

Edit- and lets not forget timed exclusives too, ghostwire tokyo and dealthloop, those are microsoft teams now that made timed exclusives for sony to bump up sales/give more games early in ps5 lifecycle, not like microsoft cant make them spit some quality games now, no?

Thats why Microsoft are betting big and are currently with their hands tied with ABK. You can't win mindshare and marketshare without being aggressive when you're behind.

But yeah thats 2.5 years, coming off a fairly poor generation prior (Xbox One). If they didn't focus so hard on aquiring publishers and IP's and tried like they did in the 360 era we could've seen some big competition from Xbox, this generation. I mean they had 10's of billions of dollars to splash out which could've gone towards explanding their own teams and third party games. Instead, they pulled their wallet out. Easier to buy off big exclusives permanently with Bethesda games and ABK titles I guess. And then hope that pay dividends in gradually peeling people away from PS when you control CoD among other strong IP's. I mean going by this year, without Bethesda.. XGS's output would be quite barren.

Its a pretty gross move imo but capitalism and all that.
 
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