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[Dacon]

A lot of people say that female game characters, that have been modeled from some real-life actress, are ugly like 3/4 times. Or that the devs messed with the facial structure of the game model.

What if however that's actually what the actress looks like without makeup?

Contouring (?) or intricate makeup seems to act as an optical illusion, and make the actress look like she might have a narrower nose, more pronounced cheers, etc. whereas a game isn't modelling that.

I'm probably wrong, but when motion capture or photogrammetry images are taken, I imagine it maps facial features as x,y, z points. So mapping points on the face wouldn't register those fake features made by makeup. The end result is a character with a wide/long chin, or round face, or just plain average looking.

We really out here pretending that it's the lake of makeup making them look like this?

Makeup only accentuates a woman's natural beauty. I doesn't matter if you sprinkle gold dust on it, a turd is still a turd. An attractive woman is an attractive woman, and there's plenty of women out there who don't wear makeup and are still gorgeous.

My first girlfriend never wore makeup and she still had me fiending for her 24/7.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Don't let social media, magazine covers, and makeup warp your perception of reality.

I don't do social media (outside boards like here). Maybe I'm lucky, but the women around me (I'm in the mid 40s, so women tend to be late 30s to late 40s) don't have the looks problems western video games protagonists have, and it's not because they're all secretly Instagram modelling around me.

If I lived at a different place I'd think that European/North American fair skinned women are fugly if my only source was gaming (not saying women from other parts of the world are not just as beautiful, but they don't have to suffer from uglifying that video games does to their image).

To be fair most people aren't that good looking to begin with, whatever the gender they have.

I mean, here is my last selfie:

 

[Faithless83]

The sooner you guys see the fucking agenda being pushed the better.
Light doesn't change features. Mouth, chin, jaw line eyebrows, nose, sizes and positions are all over the place.

The dev stuck to the original material:

It's beyond beauty standards, it's about purposely changing a character face.

Yet we have Lance Reddick unaffected by "lighting"

Same facial features as the actor.

New female light agenda detected, huh?

 

[Dacon]

The point is that artists don't like following forumas/traditions because they're inherently boring.

Artists want to break new ground. Not make a character pretty because people are used to pretty characters.

What artists are you talking about? Because this is complete horseshit. Artists draw/paint/orchestrate what they want because it makes them happy and is what theyre interested in. Most of the artists you'll find on the internet are just making what they like because it is enjoyable.

For many of them it's pretty women, handsome men, pretty men, cute things, or absolutely monstrous things like Ryan Ottley . Some artists enjoy combining those things. There is no artistic standard, it's just about where your personal interests lie. It has nothing to do with breaking new ground, most artists learn from emulating life, and other artists. There is little ground to break.

The amount of artists trying to somehow revolutionize character designs are miniscule imo. I can tell just from having taken a character design course from industry leaders. Making characters ugly/plain is hardly a revolutionary ground breaking take.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

You're a bit premature. You're asking for a response to something that was never posited.

I'd be open to you describing the exact flaw in my original post, though. It will allow you start over, at least.

The sooner you guys see the fucking agenda being pushed the better.
Light doesn't change features. Mouth, chin, jaw line eyebrows, nose, sizes and positions are all over the place.

The dev stuck to the original material:

It's beyond beauty standards, it's about purposely changing a character face.

Yet we have Lance Reddick unaffected by "lighting"

Same facial features as the actor.

New female light agenda detected, huh?

It's pretty clear since the first game that her looks were slightly altered. People have used countless ways in this very thread to explain to you why something can look 'off' with actual evidence to boot(from development to photography to film), and you dismiss it all as an agenda. That's the problem.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

The sooner you guys see the fucking agenda being pushed the better.
Light doesn't change features. Mouth, chin, jaw line eyebrows, nose, sizes and positions are all over the place.

There is no way anyone comparing Aloy to Horizon 1 or the source actress can deny Aloy's head just blew up. If nobody saw the clip showing a slim body wrapped in tons of weird clothes, going by that head pic alone, everyone would think Aloy is a 300 lbs fatty.

Whether Sony wants to mess with her looks based on politics or not who knows.

I'm more amazed a game studio would bother even hiring an actress to do mocaps and facial scans if the end result is going to look nothing like her. Why even bother.

 

[Faithless83]

It's pretty clear since the first game that her looks were slightly altered. People have used countless ways in this very thread to explain to you why something can look 'off' with actual evidence to boot(from development to photography to film), and you dismiss it all as an agenda. That's the problem.

It only affects females then? Why is that?
Look even his EAR is a 1:1 copy.

But hey, it only affects females and it's not an agenda.

 

[Tmack]

Incel alert... I knew we were all fucked when I saw people say they didn't get returnal because of the character model... its a very weird thing to obsess over

Out of nowhere every female character becomes fugly bloated and those who notice that trand are the ones obsessed with it? Huh

 

[TheMay30thMan]

It never ceases to amaze me how whenever an average-looking, NOT REAL, video game character is criticized, some posters justify it by claiming “women don’t look like that in real life.”

Where on earth do you live? Where every single person you see on a daily basis is ugly. I’m not convinced these people ever go outside.

 

[onnextflix5]

Come on it obvious, they want tone down misogyny in games, one way to do that is making them look ugly. Its a shame, but can we do, it dose not matter if these games succeed or not, the lara croft characters are in the past, funny as it puts me me off playing these games even more then before, its fantasy for fucks sake, so what if these women look good.

 

[Raonak]

What artists are you talking about? Because this is complete horseshit. Artists draw/paint/orchestrate what they want because it makes them happy and is what theyre interested in. Most of the artists you'll find on the internet are just making what they like because it is enjoyable.

For many of them it's pretty women, handsome men, pretty men, cute things, or absolutely monstrous things like Ryan Ottley . Some artists enjoy combining those things. There is no artistic standard, it's just about where your personal interests lie. It has nothing to do with breaking new ground, most artists learn from emulating life, and other artists. There is little ground to break.

The amount of artists trying to somehow revolutionize character designs are miniscule imo. I can tell just from having taken a character design course from industry leaders. Making characters ugly/plain is hardly a revolutionary ground breaking take.

So we agree! Artists don't care about what the idiots of the internet want (attractive characters)

they want to make things they find interesting/challenging/satisfying.
A lot of artists don't like designing someone/something that is flawless, because it's inherently boring.

Artists want to make what they want to make. And I'm gonna celebrate their artistic freedom.

Aloy doesn't look like a supermodel.

and that's a good thing

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

It only affects females then? Why is that?
Look even his EAR is a 1:1 copy.

But hey, it only affects females and it's not an agenda.

I swear some of you have horrible enough memory that you really need to see a doctor.

And don't get me started on sports games(which should be easy since it's the same damn game every year but fans clowned their devs for this shit too):

 

[Dacon]

So we agree! Artists don't care about what the idiots of the internet want (attractive characters)

Depends on what they've been paid to do and what their market is. Those "idiots" are consumers too, and every sale matters.

they want to make things they find interesting/challenging/satisfying.

Depends on whether they're self employed or a smaller piece of a greater team whose own vision is compromised by that of the collective. Something like Aloy's appearance will have been iterated on again and again by different artists based on what their art director, and the director of the game wants. It's not a solo job.

A lot of artists don't like designing someone/something that is flawless, because it's inherently boring.

Who are you speaking for?

Artists want to make what they want to make. And I'm gonna celebrate their artistic freedom.

Except when theyre working for a company that dictates the direction both their designs and inspiration for those designs take.

You only have so much freedom as corporate dictates. There isn't some coalition of artists who have a ton of creative freedom to do whatever they want in a games production. It's why gay romances that Bioware wanted in their games were removed at the behest of corporate, despite what the developers wanted.

Aloy doesn't look like a supermodel.

Your opinion.

and that's a good thing

For you.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I swear some of you have horrible enough memory that you really need to see a doctor.

And don't get me started on sports games(which should be easy since it's the same damn game every year but fans clowned their devs for this shit too):

Kurt Angle. Worst one by far.

 

[Faithless83]

I swear some of you have horrible enough memory that you really need to see a doctor.

And don't get me started on sports games(which should be easy since it's the same damn game every year but fans clowned their devs for this shit too):

There is a difference in having a mocap and manually sculping the face. We can establish that, right?
That said, we are talking the same game, within the same timespan between them (story wise).
Yet only one of the characters is affected by the "fugly raytracing" that hit and deform Aloy's face.

 

[Raonak]

Depends on what they've been paid to do and what their market is. Those "idiots" are consumers too, and every sale matters.

Depends on whether they're self employed or a smaller piece of a greater team whose own vision is compromised by that of the collective. Something like Aloy's appearance will have been iterated on again and again by different artists based on what their art director, and the director of the game wants. It's not a solo job.

Who are you speaking for?

Except when theyre working for a company that dictates the direction both their designs and inspiration for those designs take.

You only have so much freedom as corporate dictates. There isn't some coalition of artists who have a ton of creative freedom to do whatever they want in a games production. It's why gay romances that Bioware wanted in their games were removed at the behest of corporate, despite what the developers wanted.



Your opinion.



For you.

Literally no-one will boycott Horizon because Aloy doen't look hot enough.
Artists know they can push boundaries such as making average looking female characters.

It'll annoy the idiots who get trigged by average looking characters.
but those idiots are gonna buy the game anyway, or weren't planning on buying the game ever.

Sony knows how to give it's artists plenty of creative freedom. that's why they're the best in the biz.
Characters don't have to look like supermodels! and that's a good thing for the medium as a whole.

 

[Derift]

Out of nowhere every female character becomes fugly bloated and those who notice that trand are the ones obsessed with it? Huh

abit hyperbolic doncha think...2 characters that aren't very attractive (to you) and all of a sudden its all women... that being said it would be a good point to note that 40%+ of PlayStation owners are women maybe just maybe they might not want to see women sexualised at every turn.... you wanna see sexy women then go watch porn i dont play games to get boners...

 

[Croatoan]

Would be interesting to know what the fairer sex have to say. It feels like there are lots of men screaming their lungs out on this topic.

My wife prefers playing as "cute" women. I'll leave you to decipher what cute means.

Honestly she was helping me with a character design the other day and all if her choices where more "risque" than mine, all because she thought it was a cuter outfit.

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

There is a difference in having a mocap and manually sculping the face. We can establish that, right?
That said, we are talking the same game, within the same timespan between them (story wise).
Yet only one of the characters is affected by the "fugly raytracing" that hit and deform Aloy's face.

Oh, I finally understand the type of person I'm talking to now. You once again ignored evidence in order to support your narrative. The faces I presented were scanned. But that doesn't matter because I see the bigger picture with you now...no matter how ugly a scanned male's face is done, you simply can't see it. Why would you? There are pretty and ugly males done in games all the time so even when a face is horrible-looking it's already the norm. This is why when an average-looking woman is shown on screen it sticks out like a sore thumb to you and you call it an agenda, because this hasn't really been a thing before these last two gens. So of course you're going to call it an agenda regardless of intent. It all makes sense now.

 

[Faithless83]

abit hyperbolic doncha think...2 characters that aren't very attractive (to you) and all of a sudden its all women... that being said it would be a good point to note that 40%+ of PlayStation owners are women maybe just maybe they might not want to see women sexualised at every turn.... you wanna see sexy women then go watch porn i dont play games to get boners...

Then why it only affects the female characters?
Why we have these in the same game?

How is this about sexualization? It's her FACE not her body.

 

[Faithless83]

Oh, I finally understand the type of person I'm talking to now. You once again ignored evidence in order to support your narrative. The faces I presented were scanned. But that doesn't matter because I see the bigger picture with you now...no matter how ugly a scanned male's face is done, you simply can't see it. Why would you? There are pretty and ugly males done in games all the time so even when a face is horrible-looking it's already the norm. This is why when an average-looking woman is shown on screen it sticks out like a sore thumb to you and you call it an agenda, because this hasn't really been a thing before these last two gens. So of course you're going to call it an agenda regardless of intent. It all makes sense now.

You're the one moving goal posts. I shared two characters on the same game, yet this is not enough evidence?
How?

 

[ArtemisClydeFrog]

the lara croft characters are in the past

The "lara croft characters" are literally in the present. Fortnite has multiple skins of her, and there's of course the games featuring Lara Croft (Tomb Raider!)

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

You're the one moving goal posts. I shared two characters on the same game, yet this is not enough evidence?
How?

Because of the camera angles and mm focal length. We've already told you this on page one. The picture you love to keep sharing is taken from an 'eyeball camera pov' of another character who is at ankle height from the ground, looking up at Aloy. The picture of the other character is taken at above chest height, like all flatering movie camera angles would be. Stop posting for a minute, breathe, go to google, and do some research on cameras. Please, I'm begging you.

Oh hey, look at this shot, different camera 'type', higher angle:

Yet no one posts this gif or the trailer image related with it. Gee, I wonder fucking why.

 

[Harlock]

 

[Excess]

that being said it would be a good point to note that 40%+ of PlayStation owners are women maybe just maybe they might not want to see women sexualised at every turn....

Just anecdotally, but the women I do know who play video games either are indifferent or actually prefer sexy female characters.

And just as personal preference, but I prefer the same of my male characters. Example: HGH Chris Redfield is much more preferable to me than skinny-boy Redfield. I want to be swol like Chris and mass-murder 500 lycans; it's all part of the power-fantasy.

 

[Lethal01]

You're the one moving goal posts. I shared two characters on the same game, yet this is not enough evidence?
How?

Ofcourse not. You are posting just two pictures of characters taken from totally different angles with different focal length and then use that as evidence that one is more true to the source than the other.
So you think you see one character that was changed from the actor and one that stayed the same and start ranting about how this game has an agena against having beautiful women.

Both of these conclusions have extremely flimsy evidence to support them.
1. There are tons of other photos where she looks close to the source or prettier.
2. Even if she was extremely off model, it would be far more likely that the devs already had something in mind for how she would look since she's the main character and just used a real face that is similar as a starting point to create their own character OR B, they edited her more because she was young in the previous game. Rather than them going "She's too pretty, we can't have pretty gitls in video games"

Even if you had ended up being right the evidence you have right now is laughable

 

[Faithless83]

Because of the camera angles and mm focal length. We've already told you this on page one. The picture you love to keep sharing is taken from an 'eyeball camera pov' of another character who is at ankle height from the ground, looking up at Aloy. The picture of the other character is taken at above chest height, like all flatering movie camera angles would be. Stop posting for a minute, breathe, go to google, and do some research on cameras. Please, I'm begging you.

Oh hey, look at this shot, different camera 'type', higher angle:

Yet no one posts this gif or the trailer image related with it. Gee, I wonder fucking why.

Ofcourse not. You are posting just two pictures of characters taken from totally different angles with different focal length and then use that as evidence that one is more true to the source than the other.
So you think you see one character that was changed from the actor and one that stayed the same and start ranting about how this game has an agena against having beautiful women.

Both of these conclusions have extremely flimsy evidence to support them.
1. There are tons of other photos where she looks close to the source or prettier.
2. Even if she was extremely off model, it would be far more likely that the devs already had something in mind for how she would look since she's the main character and just used a real face that is similar as a starting point to create their own character. Rather than them going "She's too pretty, we can't have pretty gitls in video games"

Even if you had ended up being right the evidence you have right now is laughable

Go on, I'm game. Look at the jaw line:

Is this enough? Her ear is the same though.

 

[Three]

Doesn't explain why this shit doesn't seem to happen when non-Western devs do it.

You don't remember a 20 page thread when devil may cry used real life face capture?

 

[Three]

Then why it only affects the female characters?
Why we have these in the same game?

How is this about sexualization? It's her FACE not her body.

Somebody clearly has never facetimed anyone

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Go on, I'm game. Look at the jaw line:

Is this enough?

I'll match your image by posting Aloy looking down as well.

I can understand completely why creative teams don't like browsing social media by the way.

Please, Please, Please, Faithless83 go learn about cameras. I could be way more harsh in this conversation but I genuinely want you to leave this discussion more knowledgeable.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I dont know how anyone can deny Sony made Aloy's face chubbier.

 

[Lethal01]

Go on, I'm game. Look at the jaw line:

Is this enough? Her ear is the same though.

Her ear is her same, so is the rest of her.

 

[Derift]

Then why it only affects the female characters?
Why we have these in the same game?

How is this about sexualization? It's her FACE not her body.

sorry but this is getting pathetic... you going to keep showing the same picture where it looks "unfavorable" ??? jesus christ get a grip dude

but since you want to make unfair comparisons how about i show you this

does she look fat here?? this is taken from the same trailer you took the other guy from

or here she looks fine right???

 

[AJUMP23]

I dont know how anyone can deny Sony made Aloy's face chubbier.

Maybe she found a man so she is eating good in the neighborhood, because she is loved.

 

[Faithless83]

I'll match your image by posting Aloy looking down as well.

I can understand completely why creative teams don't like browsing social media by the way.

Please, Please, Please, Faithless83 go learn about cameras. I could be way more harsh in this conversation but I genuinely want you to leave this discussion more knowledgeable.

sorry but this is getting pathetic... you going to keep showing the same picture where it looks "unfavorable" ??? jesus christ get a grip dude

but since you want to make unfair comparisons how about i show you this

does she look fat here?? this is taken from the same trailer you took the other guy from

or here she looks fine right???

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

I see your point about cameras and I believe Bo_Hazem did a great job explaining it.
That however is not the case as I'm pointing out time and time again.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

I see your point about cameras and I believe Bo_Hazem did a great job explaining it.
That however is not the case as I'm pointing out time and time again.

I don't know, seems like I have a wide range of flavors in women in general. I would even take an ugly woman with amazing body over a beautiful one with less attractive shape for example as I prefer body over facial beauty.

 

[Derift]

Just anecdotally, but the women I do know who play video games either are indifferent or actually prefer sexy female characters.

And just as personal preference, but I prefer the same of my male characters. Example: HGH Chris Redfield is much more preferable to me than skinny-boy Redfield. I want to be swol like Chris and mass-murder 500 lycans; it's all part of the power-fantasy.

sorry but its bullshit in my opinion non of us complained when we were playing as a unattractive fat plumber...

 

[Faithless83]

I dont know how anyone can deny Sony made Aloy's face chubbier.

Don't fat shame fictional characters man.
You would have been banned on the "reee" place.

 

[Lethal01]

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

We can, it's a great example. An example of how much the camera angle, lighting, focal length and expression can affect the perceived shape of a person's face.

I see your point about cameras and I believe Bo_Hazem did a great job explaining it.
That however is not the case as I'm pointing out time and time again.

It is, since you are claiming she looks different from the the original actor when she looks identical in many shots that you choose to ignore..

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

These are different angles! One is a lower shot, the other is eye level!

 

[Faithless83]

sorry but its bullshit in my opinion non of us complained when we were playing as a unattractive fat plumber...

I don't know, seems like I have a wide range of flavors in women in general. I would even take an ugly woman with amazing body for example as I prefer body over facial beauty.

I agree with Bo_Hazem I like my girls meaty (not obese though. People seems to think they're the same thing now)
My point is why change it? There is no need to, so much so, that they didn't change it on the male actor.

 

[Dacon]

sorry but its bullshit in my opinion non of us complained when we were playing as a unattractive fat plumber...

Yeah don't hate on Mario to make your stupid point.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Excess]

sorry but its bullshit in my opinion non of us complained when we were playing as a unattractive fat plumber...

Well when your only other choices are a blue hedgehog and a yellow ball, a fat plumber isn't such a bad power-fantasy, is it?

 

[Bo_Hazem]

I agree with Bo_Hazem I like my girls meaty (not obese though. People seems to think they're the same thing now)
My point is why change it? There is no need to, so much so, that they didn't change it on the male actor.

I don't care about her looks in-game but looks off from the original actor, so maybe the ones behind modeling should either do a better job or keep their agenda out if there is any.

She doesn't look ugly at all, but inaccurate enough as well and the real model is prettier.

 

[Faithless83]

These are different angles! One is a lower shot, the other is eye level!

Both opened mouths shots, slightly down gazes. See how pronounced the chin render is vs the actress?
Come on man, I'm playing your game.

 

[MrPotato]

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

I see your point about cameras

Not with that example

 

[JeremyEtcetera]

Both opened mouths shots, slightly down gazes. See how pronounced the chin render is vs the actress?
Come on man, I'm playing your game.

The first gif I posted to match yours is at an even level though, camera-wise. You're not playing my game because you're not understanding the game itself.

Again, go do some research on camera angles, or I don't know, go facetime someone/anyone like T Three said.

 

[Derift]

Yeah don't hate on Mario to make your stupid point.

its a valid point... why is it a problem if we play as a "unattractive" woman (not that i find her unattractive) but no one bats an eyelid that we have been playing as a number of fugly men for years (not that i cared anyway) .... its honestly a shame that this is what gaming has come to people are making up conspiracy theories about a so called agenda... its pathetic... just play the damn game

 

[vpance]

And here I thought we could use this shot as an example:

I see your point about cameras and I believe Bo_Hazem did a great job explaining it.
That however is not the case as I'm pointing out time and time again.

Apart from the jaw/cheek thing, the actress actually has quite large eyes. That's lost with Aloy in HFW.