Support NeoGAF

[mxbison]

A lot of people say that female game characters, that have been modeled from some real-life actress, are ugly like 3/4 times.

Because all they know is porn stars and anime girls.

 

[Whitecrow]

You may wanna know how boobs get when girls are lying down and how different they are from when they are standing up.
Do you even know how gravity works?

 

[Danjin44]

Fair enough. For me characters can he ugly or pretty. I like style and unique more than “attractive” as in sexy. Additionally graphically impressive is also appreciated.

To me there are two different type of “ugly” one ugly character but well made model and another one is badly made models like you see in most Bethesda games.

 

[captainnapalm]

You people need to accept the reality in front of your face - a number of developers are purposefully making female characters look less attractive - it's been going on for a few years, and it's absolutely as a result of the industry being populated with people with pronouns in their bio who think just like an average Resetera poster. It's the same toxic influence that leads to all the shitty identity politics and race-swapping in TV shows and movies these days. These people aren't hard to spot - they all have the same opinions and think the same dumb things.

 

[Bernd Lauert]

You people need to accept the reality in front of your face - a number of developers are purposefully making female characters look less attractive - it's been going on for a few years, and it's absolutely as a result of the industry being populated with people with pronouns in their bio who think just like an average Resetera poster. It's the same toxic influence that leads to all the shitty identity politics and race-swapping in TV shows and movies these days. These people aren't hard to spot - they all have the same opinions and think the same dumb things.

Conspiracy theory: the reason we got uggo females in video games now is because a lot of the designers are MTF trans "women" who can't deal with feminine, beautiful women because it triggers their gender dysphoria, so they make them ugly. I 100% believe this.

 

[captainnapalm]

Conspiracy theory: the reason we got uggo females in video games now is because a lot of the designers are MTF trans "women" who can't deal with feminine, beautiful women because it triggers their gender dysphoria, so they make them ugly. I 100% believe this.

It's not just the transgender thing. Feminism is basically the ultimate ugly girl philosophy - it's absolutely filled with women who are resentful of more beautiful women. Your average blue-haired pierced weirdo is basically filled with rage that they didn't look like Tiffany the cheerleader at school. It's all based on resentment.

And yes these women are now all over the gaming industry - and so are loads of super weak liberal men who buy into all that nonsense to fit in with the in-crowd. Guys like Neil Druckmann or the men who made Horizon Zero Dawn - they see themselves as heroes to their in-group for embracing woke and feminist agendas.

 

[llien]

without makeup?

Why stop there dude?
Why not include "after sleepless night"?
Or hangover?

Add scale to things, please!

 

[GuinGuin]

Face models are just a base for them to work from. Then they made models that will fit into the aesthetic of their game.

 

[llien]

If Horizon ZD were a movie you would haven't even had an inkling of a thought that her chin was big or off-putting, because all of the angles would be from flattering angles(head height or above) like they should be, and almost all movie directors would have never done a first person shot from this sitting dude's point of view on an actor:

Let it be, please.
Not only her face, but her body has been changed too.

And no, it' snot because "but it's computers". Gorilla is freaking amazing at turning people into 3D models, from the same game:

 

[llien]

Don't let social media, magazine covers, and makeup warp your perception of reality.

Don't present outliers (people with problematic skin, covering up, people faking eyes and eyebrows) as something normal and mainstream.

 

[McCheese]

Conspiracy theory: the reason we got uggo females in video games now is because a lot of the designers are MTF trans "women" who can't deal with feminine, beautiful women because it triggers their gender dysphoria, so they make them ugly. I 100% believe this.

Without evidence I would say that you sound like a complete idiot, but yes, we've had character artists from bioware come out and say that they are making characters more trans friendly by reducing bust size etc. So as much as I want to bash you for saying it so bluntly, you're not wrong.

Aloy however always looked a bit odd, I think it's intentionality just how she is, remember she was a social outcast in the first game that nobody would even speak to, so I think making her into a stunner would of made that less believable. And even then, she's hardly Quasimodo.

 

[Ailynn]

Yikes.

What are they doing to her bone structure? Are they slowly turning her into Robert Z'Dar?

 

[PeteBull]

No1 can deny they made Alloy's face much uglier even in the first game, 2nd game is just going all out to the point of meme potential, halo infinite had/has its craig moment, alloy's much uglier/chubby/maskuline face is that moment.
I doesnt take anything away from actual game, just it tells u what agenda ppl in command(be it dev studio or sony) are pushing. And yup Abby in TLOU sequel looking like she is on srs amount of juice(no, u cant achieve that look w/o performance enhancing drugs, and yup its crazy unrealistic in post apocalyptic scenario- irl to keep such look u gotta not only constantly take peds, but also keep doing ur blood tests to counter many sideffects, yet Abby got a very feminine voice of Laura Bayley somehow) or even Joel looking like old weak scrawny man there vs captain america look in the first game is same agenda to me
It is what it is.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

This is such a non issue. She's fine. Looks good. Not seeing the need for weirdness around it. Some games have fanservice, some games don't. Either way is cool.

 

[Dr.Morris79]

Games should have uglier people in them. You going through a war or demon invasion or some shit you shouldn't be looking like a GQ model the whole time.

It's a game, not real life.

 

[ZywyPL]

I honestly never care if video game characters are attractive. I ain't fucking them.

 

[yamaci17]

Probably because almost no one thinks Mario is fucking ugly.

I can't think of a male protagonist who is ugly to me, but then again I don't find men attractive so their appearance usually is inoffensive unless theyre really hideous like some of the dudes in the Witcher.

Like, Wario is ugly. Mario is just Mario.

Shrek disagrees!

Witcher 1 Geralt looked very off,

papa niko!

 

[sobaka770]

This thread is embarassing. Aloy always looked like she has some baby fat and that's fine because she's like 17-18 years old in the game and her face is just slightly wider than the usual "beauty standards" whatever that means.

Concerning differences between HZD and HFW it's even more embarassing - same single snapshot of a distorted focal lens to convey a concussed NPC is used to further the riddiculous "western devs make women less hot" claim. Horizon was never a stylized game about hot waifus and overmuscled jocks fighting robot dinosaurs. Aloy looks grounded in this world and the stylistic choices made for the game in terms of color, clothing, NPC detail and that's what matters most. Moreover I couldn't see any major difference in her appearance apart from enhancements to skin shaders, more "muscles" to convey emotion and general detail coming with next-gen enhancements. Same for the other guy - he looks a bit different than in the first game but consistent enough because they used better tech.

This fake narrative is pathetic (in this case at least), go outside once in a while JFC.

 

[Hoppa]

Hope Guerilla release a makeup and face lift DLC for the large amount of gamers who would apparently rather play a cavewoman makeover simulator

 

[TGO]

That's not have make-up works.
What it could be is shadow and lighting.
The wrong amount shadowing, positioning, highlights etc can change the appearance despite the facial structure being 1:1
This is why some portrait art of faces can look off because the shading and highlights don't match that of the real life counterpart

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I personally never liked scan faces in games because they always something off about them.

I personally like custom faces that most Japanese developers use for their games.....They less realistic but I don't know they feel more natural to me.

More natural? She looks like a bug-eyed demon.

 

[UnNamed]

You people need to accept the reality in front of your face - a number of developers are purposefully making female characters look less attractive - it's been going on for a few years, and it's absolutely as a result of the industry being populated with people with pronouns in their bio who think just like an average Resetera poster. It's the same toxic influence that leads to all the shitty identity politics and race-swapping in TV shows and movies these days. These people aren't hard to spot - they all have the same opinions and think the same dumb things.

And someone already said to me to not call this "conspiracy theorists", because in the end it works in the same way:
-a supposed problem.
-a supposed agenda or plan by unknown actors.
-a group self consideted too smart to be tricked
-implying people that don't agree with this are probably stupid, but fortunately some people are here to say the truth.
-the supposed plan is not revealed and probably will never be, but the lack of proves is the real prove something is goin on.

Aloy is ugly is not a criticism, it's just an opinion.
When a mere opinion can cause such a big problem for someone, we need to understand if people can cope with real problems.

 

[M1chl]

`member?

I also like that male model was unaltered...

 

[Danjin44]

More natural? She looks like a bug-eyed demon.

Say what you want but I personally prefer that over uncanny valley.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

Say what you want but I personally prefer that over uncanny valley.

I can prefer it, I guess, when everything is stylized. But an A B comparison to a real life face makes that picture look rather horrifying.

 

[nbkicker]

You just need to look at the capcom leak to see whats going on behind closed doors with them saying they need to change how they portray woman in games, saying female and lbgtq charachters should be potrayed as strong intresting charachters like abby for lou2 and not woman in distress like princess peach and zelda, even re3 etc they changed the charchters look and clothing , mortal kombat changed the look slightly of the female charachters and fully clothed them, ive taught kickboxing for 25 yrs and ive had women come into the club that looked stunning without makeup that could kick half of lads arses yet in games now that just seems u cant have that

 

[GymWolf]

Lack of makeup change the facial features like jaw or chin??

Fiuu, the more you know.

 

[Oddvintagechap]

Sam still looks like Sam or Norman Reedus no matter the camera angle . The face modelling is outright superior or Kojima don't tamper with the face for certain "intentions" , that is all .

He looks fat as hell what you mean

 

[GymWolf]

Because this is how people look in real life:

Jokes on you

 

[GymWolf]

That character model is so bad I don't think it was even based on a real person.

To me it looks like some artists with Xbox 360/PS3 era skill sets made up a terrible looking character from scratch.

It's that bad.

 

[N1tr0sOx1d3]

Personally I thought Jackie Stallone did a tremendous job playing the Duke in Village….

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Dude, most.people on this forum don't know what a woman with no makeup looks like unless it's their mother or sister they grew up with...

Forums? Heh, I think most people in the world haven’t seen most women without make-up unless maybe they live with them. I’m sure there are a plethora of women who even sleep in make-up nowadays.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I think most of this issue boils down to limitations of in-game lighting solutions. I think we have all seen images of rather "fake" looking games completely transformed by Ray tracing.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

They look nothing alike and in game Jill looks like a toad.

I actually think Jill looks attractive in RE3: Remake and they did an admirable job of portraying her real life model in-game. She came out better than most, if not all the Western game female face scans imo.

 

[MAX PAYMENT]

I actually think Jill looks attractive in RE3: Remake and they did an admirable job of portraying her real life model in-game. She came out better than most, if not all the Western game female face scans imo.

Agreed!

 

[captainnapalm]

`member?

I also like that male model was unaltered...

I mean, this is just absolute slam dunk 100% proof that they are doing this.

 

[Omegaking]

I think most of this issue boils down to limitations of in-game lighting solutions. I think we have all seen images of rather "fake" looking games completely transformed by Ray tracing.

The problem is very simple. Too many gamers are looking for a human connection with these fake characters. the perception of a problem would go away if people simply look at these characters as art. all they have to do is step outside and meet real women and they would realize, majority of women don't have perfect triangular faces. Simply stop looking at game characters as your personal f***k dolls and problem solved.

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Games should have uglier people in them. You going through a war or demon invasion or some shit you shouldn't be looking like a GQ model the whole time.

That should apply to movies and TV shows as well then. Imo, games shouldn’t always get singled out. Why get a skinny pretty supermodel like they normally do for a superhero or protagonist who fights when you can get huge muscular or obese woman with scars all over her face showing she’s battle hardened?

 

[RedWhiteBlue]

making sure they don't get articles written about them on shite like kotaku or polygon.

I wonder if we might get some whistle-blower devs exposing this in future years.

You'd have to imagine that behind the scenes on these games there is effort being made to stay off the radar of Twitter, ResetEra and Polygon/Kotaku etc.

The last thing they want is disgusting male nerds turning their flagship female character into a "pin up" and all the negative coverage that would come with that.

So people can argue all day about Aloy's appearance but I don't think anyone can deny that there is a strange relationship between western devs and "activists" in the community and media.

 

[RedWhiteBlue]

all they have to do is step outside and meet real women

Why is this the go to argument for so many people?

Do people honestly believe that folks who think something is "off" with Aloy's character design just happen to never go outside and don't have a family and so they have never seen a woman?

I mean, you would have to literally never even go out of the house to not see regular women all the time.

Kinda funny.

 

[ZywyPL]

all they have to do is step outside and meet real women and they would realize, majority of women don't have perfect triangular faces.

That's exactly the point - if I wanted to look at ugly people, I'd simply go outside, there's plenty of them. Hell, I can even just look into a mirror. But in video games or movies, which are the mediums where only the imagination is the limit, people expect not only fantastic worlds and events, but also characters that are indeed not common in a real world, people want to see bad ass motherfucker who single-handedly takes out tens of bad guys, saving the hostages, his wife, entire world etc., same goes for female characters, people expect perfection literally, Lara Croft would be one of the most recognizable gaming characters if she was some retired granny from Returnal, one one wants that. And above anything else, people aren't dumb nor blind, they see what's going on, they see the models are fucked up on purpose. But then again, people vote with their wallets, the question is are they able to put their money where they mouth is.

 

[Omegaking]

That's exactly the point - if I wanted to look at ugly people, I'd simply go outside, there's plenty of them. Hell, I can even just look into a mirror. But in video games or movies, which are the mediums where only the imagination is the limit, people expect not only fantastic worlds and events, but also characters that are indeed not common in a real world, people want to see bad ass motherfucker who single-handedly takes out tens of bad guys, saving the hostages, his wife, entire world etc., same goes for female characters, people expect perfection literally, Lara Croft would be one of the most recognizable gaming characters if she was some retired granny from Returnal, one one wants that. And above anything else, people aren't dumb nor blind, they see what's going on, they see the models are fucked up on purpose. But then again, people vote with their wallets, the question is are they able to put their money where they mouth is.

lol, yes imagination is the limit in games that is why play them. but, I'm not the artist that makes them. so, choose wisely which game/art I pay for. if you don't like the art direction of the game don't buy it. or fund your own game.

 

[Mister Wolf]

That's exactly the point - if I wanted to look at ugly people, I'd simply go outside, there's plenty of them. Hell, I can even just look into a mirror. But in video games or movies, which are the mediums where only the imagination is the limit, people expect not only fantastic worlds and events, but also characters that are indeed not common in a real world, people want to see bad ass motherfucker who single-handedly takes out tens of bad guys, saving the hostages, his wife, entire world etc., same goes for female characters, people expect perfection literally, Lara Croft would be one of the most recognizable gaming characters if she was some retired granny from Returnal, one one wants that. And above anything else, people aren't dumb nor blind, they see what's going on, they see the models are fucked up on purpose. But then again, people vote with their wallets, the question is are they able to put their money where they mouth is.

Its not even just the women. Hetero men have admiration for handsome men that are desired by alot of women. This article speaks for itself:

The Highest-Paid Actors Of 2020

Never mind the box office. This year’s top-earning movie stars have a new way of filling their pockets with massive paydays.

www.forbes.com

No one wants to look at average/ugly unless you are a comedian or just have such a unique appearance that its polarizing.

 

[LazyParrot]

You don't remember a 20 page thread when devil may cry used real life face capture?

Can't say I do. Got a link?

 

[Omegaking]

Why is this the go to argument for so many people?

Do people honestly believe that folks who think something is "off" with Aloy's character design just happen to never go outside and don't have a family and so they have never seen a woman?

I mean, you would have to literally never even go out of the house to not see regular women all the time.

Kinda funny.

How can her design be off if that is what gorillas attended for her to look like? She is a drawing, the artistic creation of an artist. You might as well go as far as saying that women that do not have a perfect triangular face look off. what is kinda funny is that these arguments boil down to men wanting to get it off fake characters.

 

[Stitch]

the yakuza games are pretty good at not turning the real life models into goblins ingame

 

[spyshagg]

Maybe they are going for realism. Being inclusive of Insulin Resistant Pre-Diabetic Girls, because you know, she is in the West now.

Or maybe she aged.

Or maybe some influential developer in the studio now has a daughter that grew up to be puffy faced.

We will never know. Yet, stranger things have happened (see BF V)

 

[Three]

Can't say I do. Got a link?

What I could find for the moment but this set it off

Layna Lazar makes point about pro-sexuality art, reignites feud with insomniac dev - twitter outrage mobs

Lazar's Artstation portfolio - for context So, the whole thing that sparked this weeks controversy was the lady character from DMC5. Layna's point was that the feminine features of the character had been made more 'androgynous' I guess is the word. She illustrated this here: Then, she used a...

www.neogaf.com

They had a problem with the characters face and bigger jaw there too even though it was face scanned.

 

[LMJ]

why should it be about "fucking" them exactly!? Just because you want to see good looking character in media doesn't mean you want to "fuck" them.

Well said, the answer is its an easy way to shut down dissent/opinions they don't like...

Why is this the go to argument for so many people?

Do people honestly believe that folks who think something is "off" with Aloy's character design just happen to never go outside and don't have a family and so they have never seen a woman?

I mean, you would have to literally never even go out of the house to not see regular women all the time.

Kinda funny.

Sadly debate has reached this point, if you DARE to even point out something regarding the odd state of women in western games, you are misogynistic, xenophobic,sexist, racist etc

Essentially it's a defense mechanism to protect unwelcome opinions, threatening viewpoints...

Both sides use it too...I miss actual debate lol

 

[Three]

the yakuza games are pretty good at not turning the real life models into goblins ingame

Because some of them actually edit them after the fact. Like making their mouths smaller or their chins pointy. Mostly the studios who hand animate and have stiff animations rather than face capture.