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[coffinbirth]

I still think a big success is like 8 million lifetime. There's no way they are hoping for 15, 20, etc.. As far as sony support, AAA-grade VR is basically completely on them and jthey likely know that, too. They need to either make the games themselves of pony up like they did with RE8. The launch is strong but I hope they have a plan to keep it fed on a relatively small userbase. All we know now is that the launch is good and early adopters ony have faith to go on from there.

Well, personally I think this is a much harder sell than PSVR, despite obviously being much better hardware. 40% smaller userbase, higher price, and they burned the impulse purchase for exciting new tech card already. It's gonna take a LOT to get anywhere NEAR PSVR1 numbers, at that's at about 5 million units last I checked.

 

[THE DUCK]

But THE DUCK told me this was thrown together in two weeks because of low psvr2 pre orders

Pretty good for a couple months work! You can thank me later for pressuring sony to show it to a gaming outlet.

 

[Crayon]

Well, personally I think this is a much harder sell than PSVR, despite obviously being much better hardware. 40% smaller userbase, higher price, and they burned the impulse purchase for exciting new tech card already. It's gonna take a LOT to get anywhere NEAR PSVR1 numbers, at that's at about 5 million units last I checked.

Better software and much better future-proofing should help a lot. If it trails vr1 for the first two years, that's where the vr1 sales hit a wall. Unfortunate since the library slowly filled out but hit a crossover point where vr1 was just way out of date and the new standard for conrtollers was hurting it. That will all be different here. I don't see it being that hard to do better than the first one, at least over lifetime. As for the hot new thing card, most of the buyers are either going to have just a psvr1 that they were happy enough with, or never had vr at all. Maybe a quest. Most have never used a pimax or vev 2 pro or anything else comparable. It's only the second console vr unit to hit the marker. It should be novel and exciting even if not in the same was it was when consumer vr was all new.

 

[BackBackPunch]

One thing that i hate about driving/racing games in VR is the disconnect you feel from your body. If you play with a gamepad, it's weird because your virtual arms are holding the steering wheel. If you play with a steering wheel, then it's weird because when you move your hands off the wheel IRL, your virtual hands stay attached to the wheel.

There's no real good way to fix this without using hand tracking so that the game mimics your actual hand motion and position.

 

[Romulus]

One thing that i hate about driving/racing games in VR is the disconnect you feel from your body. If you play with a gamepad, it's weird because your virtual arms are holding the steering wheel. If you play with a steering wheel, then it's weird because when you move your hands off the wheel IRL, your virtual hands stay attached to the wheel.

There's no real good way to fix this without using hand tracking so that the game mimics your actual hand motion and position.

Never had this issue with either method. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

 

[PixelatedBeast]

Yeah, free VR headset, free advanced copy of game. My dead grandmother would probably like it too.

Bruh, what are you doing? Because clearly you arent thinking straight, lol. The headset isnt even out yet. GT7 is already available, the VR version is free. In fact, its on sale right now on PSN...

The PSVR has better specs than the Quest 2. Is it hard to believe GT7 is the premier racing game on PSVR now? Full game fully playable, high fidelity and wheel support? VR fits very well with racing games.

 

[jm89]

Pretty good for a couple months work! You can thank me later for pressuring sony to show it to a gaming outlet.

Article on famitsu kaz says gt7 was built with vr in mind. Not a couple of months work.

 

[kyliethicc]

hardcore GT player hands on impression

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Pretty good for a couple months work! You can thank me later for pressuring sony to show it to a gaming outlet.

Despite VR data found in the game from over 8 months ago but okayyy, just take the L

 

[ZehDon]

quick notes

full game (except local split screen obviously)
every mode, car, track, online, full AI, full dynamic weather, etc
play with dualsense or wheel, not sense controllers
new VR exclusive showroom mode to look at cars
foveated rendering eye tracking
4K HDR 120 hz

Boom. Now I'm excited. They really should be shouting this stuff from the roof tops.

 

[Crayon]

Yeah, free VR headset, free advanced copy of game. My dead grandmother would probably like it too.

There goes every positive preview of anything ever.

 

[Crayon]

Boom. Now I'm excited. They really should be shouting this stuff from the roof tops.

I'm getting this feeling like they are almost soft launching this. Not the game but the psvr2 in general. Everything has been so low-key since the beginning. Why, who knows. Seems dumb. There is probably a good reason. But it might just be plain dumb lol.

 

[Rivet]

Wow. The full GT7 game in VR +the VR showroom for every car... That's a car lover's dream come true. It's really hard not to go day one on this now. If only it wasn't so expensive...

 

[kyliethicc]

I'm getting this feeling like they are almost soft launching this. Not the game but the psvr2 in general. Everything has been so low-key since the beginning. Why, who knows. Seems dumb. There is probably a good reason. But it might just be plain dumb lol.

its a few things

1 the high price will limit initial sales but ensure profitability. better look to start price high and bring it down over time versus raising the price later

2 VR2 really requires hands on. eye tracking can't be properly conveyed on a stream. needs word of mouth

3 games & install base are chicken and egg. best bet is get the system out there so devs have customers waiting

so best to just get it out now and let it build over the years. they'll make a profit on every unit and all the software and it will serve its purpose as a cool bonus for PS5 that differentiates it from other systems

 

[Raonak]

Wow, that did a great job hyping me up. I was kinda hyped to buy it at launch, but now I feel like the need to preorder it lol.

Sony's interest in making sure that normal games have full VR options might be a great idea.

 

[Crayon]

Wow, that did a great job hyping me up. I was kinda hyped to buy it at launch, but now I feel like the need to preorder it lol.

Sony's interest in making sure that normal games have full VR options might be a great idea.

VR adaptations of normal games is the smartest way forward. Big issue with that, though: Occupying the camera in a third person game actually works awesome, but that is going to be even harder to convey than a typical vr game with first person/hand presence/unique gameplay.

I was NOT blown away when I first tried modern vr. I thought it was absolutely fantastic but I wasn't taken aback because I have an imagination and I understood what it would be like for many years. It's alot more common for people to have no imagination, or maybe critical thinking, and think vr is just like holding your face very close to a screen. Then they are mind blown when they try it.

A 3rd person game where you are lakitu is going to look exactly like the normal version in stills. And maybe look like the normal version in shaky-cam in video. Astrobot became one of the most notable vr games with that issue tho so it's not insurmountable.

If they think they are going to rework wolvering into a more in-depth vr mode with hand presence and all that, idk. Seems like it would slow things down too much. Maybe wolverine is a bad example because that would be fucking amazing with hands...

 

[Rengoku]

i understand how it works, it's promising for other headsets moving forward but would still be nice to know the actual performance gain such as fps before / after foveated rendering because this has been a highly discussed topic in VR in the past few years.

you might not need it for photo mode but there's nothing stopping them from using it there and anywhere else. developers have a tendency to be kind of smoke and mirrors about new features like this, it's not just sony but MS too.

According to Android Central, the Unity talk revealed that GPU frame times are 3.6x faster when using foveated rendering with eye-tracking on PSVR 2, or just 2.5x faster when using foveated rendering alone (which presumably only blurs the edges of the headset’s field of view, which is a technique commonly used on Quest headsets.

Running the VR Alchemy Lab demo with dynamic lighting and shadows on PSVR 2, frame time reportedly dropped from 33.2ms to 14.3ms. In another demo — a 4K spaceship demo — CPU thread performance was 32% faster and GPU frame time went down from 14.3ms to 12.5ms.

https://uploadvr.com/psvr-2-eye-tracking-foveated-rendering-gdc/

 

[ABnormal]

i understand how it works, it's promising for other headsets moving forward but would still be nice to know the actual performance gain such as fps before / after foveated rendering because this has been a highly discussed topic in VR in the past few years.

you might not need it for photo mode but there's nothing stopping them from using it there and anywhere else. developers have a tendency to be kind of smoke and mirrors about new features like this, it's not just sony but MS too.

There is an interesting presentation of PSVR 2 foveated rendering performance gains at last GDC, specific for Unity engine. It's on Youtube.

 

[mckmas8808]

RUSH! NOT SURE IF IT'S A PRICE ERROR BUT I JUST GOT GT7 FOR $25 AT WALMART :

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Gran-Turismo-7-PlayStation-5/443954076?athbdg=L1102&irgwc=1&sourceid=imp_xEiXxm39:xyNRTfWAU0uyRd-UkA3y:ypRSaq3A0&veh=aff&wmlspartner=imp_10451&clickid=xEiXxm39:xyNRTfWAU0uyRd-UkA3y:ypRSaq3A0&sharedid=&affiliates_ad_id=567111&campaign_id=9383

THANK YOU BRO!!!! Got GT7 for $25. There's only 2 copies left though for anybody else.

I now have for my day one PSVR2 experience........

- GT7
- RE8
- Horizon: CoTM


And I haven't played any of those games before. I might take a few days off when my PSVR2 arrives lol.

 

[sncvsrtoip]

Kaz Famitsu interview about psvr2

In fact, support for PSVR 2 was something we had in mind when we started developing Gran Turismo 7. In other words, it was originally produced on the premise of corresponding to VR. Therefore, Gran Turismo 7 was created as VR native in advance. Think of this as almost synonymous with running the game at 4K 60. In order to move the image with that image quality and speed, you have to make the data fairly light. The resolution of the original PS VR machine was low, so even if it was properly rendered, we couldn't solve the problems of motion sickness caused by the resolution and the unnaturalness of distant objects being unclear. This time, the resolution of the head-mounted display panel and the power of the PS5 have improved the drawing ability, and it has become possible to solve it. In addition to being able to output 60fps at normal times, panning and tilting can also be rendered at 120 FPS with reprojection, greatly improving image quality. First of all, I think that racing games are highly compatible with VR. The car moves according to your operation while you are sitting. The movement of the car is mainly in the front-rear direction, and the movement in the left-right direction is restricted. For example, you can't move from a stationary state to the side. You can basically think of it as moving forward. When you turn the steering wheel, the car slowly turns. It does so of its own volition. In addition, we have expressed beautiful scenery and real circuits around the world through the successive works of Gran Turismo, but no matter how elaborate it is, there is always a limit to what can be expressed through a TV monitor. I was Now, with PSVR 2, you can now experience the real scenery by driving the Nürburgring, Tsukuba Circuit, and various other courses. I myself believe that we have achieved the best VR experience that can be obtained in the current situation. Each Gran Turismo series, we have poured most of the available rendering resources into the expression of the car. Even in the current PS5 generation, it is made with much over-spec details. I intend to make it more suitable for future hardware than the PS5. Actually, I was talking to the person in charge of hardware from the stage of deciding the specifications of PSVR 2. In general, I feel that it meets all the specifications currently required. I think a new era has begun for Yamauchi racing games. It can be said that it is a great progress that the driving experience and the driving experience itself can now be the same as the real thing.

 

[Danknugz]

periphery vs center

(from reddit)

 

[ABnormal]

If GT is among those why do the several high quality PC VR race rims, from Automobilista 2 to F1 2022, not count? And if sim racing counts why not sim flying etc., to add even more on that count with the likes of Microsoft Flight Sim and DCS? Would that only count if it was Sony FS/on PSVR2?

To run those games on PC at comparable PSVR 2 quality, you need a really good PC VR headset and a VERY pricey PC. The reality is that few people have and can have that experience. It's potentially avaliable, but FAR too pricey to the masses, compared to PSVR 2. And those headsets cannot use foveated rendering on the games, so GPUs have to be able to render the entire frame to maximum detail.
PSVR 2 is just the one VR that allows to experience OPTIMIZED high end VR at the price of a console, or some more.

 

[mckmas8808]

Well, personally I think this is a much harder sell than PSVR, despite obviously being much better hardware. 40% smaller userbase, higher price, and they burned the impulse purchase for exciting new tech card already. It's gonna take a LOT to get anywhere NEAR PSVR1 numbers, at that's at about 5 million units last I checked.

The price of PSVR with the camera and controllers was $500 though. So what do you mean?

 

[mckmas8808]

Never had this issue with either method. Didn't bother me in the slightest.

Do you or anybody else currently have a racing wheel? If so, what's the best one to get for the PS5?

 

[mckmas8808]

It's 40USD on the PS Store right now.

Thanks! I just bought it from Wal-Mart for $25. I have no clue why it's on sale for that cheap, but whateves.

 

[coffinbirth]

The price of PSVR with the camera and controllers was $500 though. So what do you mean?

Last time I checked $500 was cheaper than $550.
Also, the console cost for entry is higher by $100 and $200 respectively.

 

[ChorizoPicozo]

5:26 "...Pixar film..."

it seems his hand are missing a couple of ChorizoPicozo s

 

[Kokoloko85]

120fps full game. Sweet.
Im gonna get a steering wheel with this

 

[ABnormal]

Last time I checked $500 was cheaper than $550.
Also, the console cost for entry is higher by $100 and $200 respectively.

That cannot be seriously considered a barrier difference. If PSVR 2 really interest, in addition to the money of PSVR1, you have just to wait some time (months?) to comfortably save the difference. That is, if one is really interested and not here to concern troll.

If money is still a problem, it probably is even to buy ps5 anyway, or a pc, and in that case it's stupid even to talk of it: there are bigger problems to face and reality is that not all people of the world can yet access to many can. But with that attitude one could say that everything is too costly. Market is based on real economy and those who can boy luxury things like gaming devices are lucky.

 

[Crayon]

This is going to be fucking glorious.

 

[coffinbirth]

That cannot be seriously considered a barrier difference. If PSVR 2 really interest, in addition to the money of PSVR1, you have just to wait some time (months?) to comfortably save the difference. That is, if one is really interested and not here to concern troll.

If money is still a problem, it probably is even to buy ps5 anyway, or a pc, and in that case it's stupid even to talk of it: there are bigger problems to face and reality is that not all people of the world can yet access to many can. But with that attitude one could say that everything is too costly. Market is based on real economy and those who can boy luxury things like gaming devices are lucky.

He was quoting me out of context. I was commenting on another post claiming that PSVR2 would have better lifetime numbers than PSVR1 and I was just listing reasons why it was going to be harder for Sony to achieve that this time around.

 

[poppabk]

120fps full game. Sweet.
Im gonna get a steering wheel with this

Pretty sure that 120fps will have reconstructed frames, but it should be unnoticeable like the foveated rendering. Speaking of which it seems conspicuously absent from the clips they were showing in the video, I'm guessing Sony made special clips without it to avoid it looking crappy when viewed in flat screen.

 

[Hero of Spielberg]

Just watched the IGN preview. This looks seriously impressive. Perfect implementation of VR.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Damn, if I didn't just sell my seat and wheel this may be tempting.

 

[ABnormal]

He was quoting me out of context. I was commenting on another post claiming that PSVR2 would have better lifetime numbers than PSVR1 and I was just listing reasons why it was going to be harder for Sony to achieve that this time around.

It may be. There are several obstacles that are now and that weren't at that time. It's very unpredictable.

It could influence the direction Sony will follow with VR in the future.

But at the very least, we, the gamers, will have this gen covered with great experiences.

 

[ABnormal]

Pretty sure that 120fps will have reconstructed frames, but it should be unnoticeable like the foveated rendering. Speaking of which it seems conspicuously absent from the clips they were showing in the video, I'm guessing Sony made special clips without it to avoid it looking crappy when viewed in flat screen.

Yes. Since direct feed footage of someone playing would show constant screen quality variation according to where the player is looking, people looking at other parts of the image would see the lowered quality. To counter this, they registered some gaming sessions, but allowed the frames to be processed at the quality you would see where you look, but in the entire screen. So is has to be done outside normal gaming sessions and registered. It's one more problem when you have to show VR gameplay to everyone.

 

[mckmas8808]

Last time I checked $500 was cheaper than $550.
Also, the console cost for entry is higher by $100 and $200 respectively.

You really think that many people will decide to not buy a VR headset over $50?

 

[mckmas8808]

He was quoting me out of context. I was commenting on another post claiming that PSVR2 would have better lifetime numbers than PSVR1 and I was just listing reasons why it was going to be harder for Sony to achieve that this time around.

And it wasn't out of context. It was "in" context. A $50 difference for something that's an order of magnitude better, shouldn't be the reason it sells less than the PSVR1.

 

[coffinbirth]

You really think that many people will decide to not buy a VR headset over $50?

You really think quoting someone out of context is worth doubling down on? You cherry picked one of several potential reasons I listed why Sony will have a hard time matching PSVR1 lifetime sales numbers, and you didn't even get that right.

 

[AlphaMale]

I just jizzed myself watching the vids. Holy cow!

 

[coffinbirth]

And it wasn't out of context. It was "in" context. A $50 difference for something that's an order of magnitude better, shouldn't be the reason it sells less than the PSVR1.

It's out of context in a LIST of reasons why lifetime sales might not match, not about a person buying a device. It was from the perspective of Sony, not you or I.

Why does this need to be explained?

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Damn.

I wasn't on the VR hype train before.

But I legit might get one in March after coming back from vacation.

This is looking sick as fuck.

 

[nikos]

This looks great. I wonder how it'll compare to PC sim racing titles in VR. Part of the reason why I very rarely use mine is because of the setup involved. Seems like I'm always having to tweak something because I never really spent the time to dial it in. That won't be necessary here.

I'm on the fence about keeping my PSVR2 preorder. I didn't play GT7 nearly as much as I wanted to because my sim setup doesn't really work with the PS5. The headset eliminates the incompatibility with my monitor, but I'd need a Drivehub to use my wheel with the PS5. In the end, it's a lot of money but could be worth it. From what I've heard, GT7's FFB isn't that great though.

Then there's that tiny glimmer of hope that GT actually comes to PC one day.

 

[mckmas8808]

It's out of context in a LIST of reasons why lifetime sales might not match, not about a person buying a device. It was from the perspective of Sony, not you or I.

Why does this need to be explained?

Out of all the reasons you listed, I thought that one was the weakest one. And so I questioned you on that. That's all. I'm actually trying to help you out to realize why it won't sale less than the first PS headset.

 

[coffinbirth]

Out of all the reasons you listed, I thought that one was the weakest one. And so I questioned you on that. That's all. I'm actually trying to help you out to realize why it won't sale less than the first PS headset.

For the mental gymnastics.

 

[NecrosaroIII]

Can't wait to simulate driving a prius.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Well, personally I think this is a much harder sell than PSVR, despite obviously being much better hardware. 40% smaller userbase, higher price, and they burned the impulse purchase for exciting new tech card already. It's gonna take a LOT to get anywhere NEAR PSVR1 numbers, at that's at about 5 million units last I checked.

I think people VASTLY overstate the importance of console sales numbers. PS5 has only 30M units in the wild, but God of War Ragnarok did the VAST MAJORITY on PS5 and is the FASTEST SELLING SONY EXCLUSIVE OF ALL TIME.

That's right. Not fastest selling PS5 title. Fastest selling PLAYSTATION first party game EVER. On an audience of 30M units. This is what people like Carmack don't seem to get. Everything is about total sales of hardware. The honest truth is that a highly engaged audience of 5-10M can be hugely profitable.

Don't get me wrong - total hardware sales DO matter. But there's diminishing returns as the type of consumer becomes more casual. PSVR2 consumers are the hardest of the hardcore. I am one of them. Love my PS5, XSX, and SW, and will be there day 1 for PSVR2 and am honestly buying more games for it at launch than I have in the last 6 months.

 

[coffinbirth]

I think people VASTLY overstate the importance of console sales numbers. PS5 has only 30M units in the wild, but God of War Ragnarok did the VAST MAJORITY on PS5 and is the FASTEST SELLING SONY EXCLUSIVE OF ALL TIME.

That's right. Not fastest selling PS5 title. Fastest selling PLAYSTATION first party game EVER. On an audience of 30M units. This is what people like Carmack don't seem to get. Everything is about total sales of hardware. The honest truth is that a highly engaged audience of 5-10M can be hugely profitable.

Don't get me wrong - total hardware sales DO matter. But there's diminishing returns as the type of consumer becomes more casual. PSVR2 consumers are the hardest of the hardcore. I am one of them. Love my PS5, XSX, and SW, and will be there day 1 for PSVR2 and am honestly buying more games for it at launch than I have in the last 6 months.

While I can get behind that idea, comparing a game to a $550 peripheral is...not really similar.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

While I can get behind that idea, comparing a game to a $550 peripheral is...not really similar.

I'm not trying to, other than to say, a very dedicated subset of the PS5 community will be buying PSVR2, probably be way happier with it than PSVR1, and manage to stay pretty engaged with the platform for years to come.

I dropped PSVR2 after Astro bot because of the issues surrounding the QOL and controllers with the platform. I don't see that happening here. If a game has a VR mode, or some blockbuster VR exclusive comes out, I'm all in.

 

[coffinbirth]

I'm not trying to, other than to say, a very dedicated subset of the PS5 community will be buying PSVR2, probably be way happier with it than PSVR1, and manage to stay pretty engaged with the platform for years to come.

I dropped PSVR2 after Astro bot because of the issues surrounding the QOL and controllers with the platform. I don't see that happening here. If a game has a VR mode, or some blockbuster VR exclusive comes out, I'm all in.

Right, and I was saying that same subset already bought a PSVR (myself included) and it's not a stretch to assume that a % of that subset probably won't be in for PSVR2. (myself currently included) for various reasons. That is why there are multiple reports of underperforming preorder numbers...a good portion of the "hardcore" are sitting on the fence with PSVR2.