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[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Yeah, I think we discussed this a few pages ago. it's definitely very inconsistent but watch those videos side by side and its obvious that Cyberpunk just looks better.

Slimy, when you refer to playing Jedi Survivor at 30 fps are you playing PC or PS5? I know you have talked about playing both ...

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Wait, what visit? Are you talking about the Jeddah finale because yes, it was the biggest holy shit this is next gen moment for me since the ratchet level switching setpieces. This is what that UE5 demo promised only bigger.

Jedi's levels are just massive. You just dont see that in non open world games. And its not just that they are massive, but they also feature hundreds of fully modeled assets in every area. You dont notice it at first because we've seen scale like this in open world games, and we've asset asset quality like this in linear games like the order, RE engine games and tlou2, but to see them both at the same time is kind of impressive. I think people are sleeping on the game because they didnt push the fidelity of characters enough because thats the first thing people notice in a big cinematic game. So its actually kind of their fault for people not noticing what it does bring to the table. Perhaps they shouldve removed RTGI and reflections for better looking characters and slightly more realistic lighting quality.

30 fps mode on PC or PS5 in that instance?

 

[CGNoire]

It really seems designed for people with either extremely large displays (like 77" MINIMUM in a normal setting)

Its only makes sense if the pub/dev are looking for a easy checkbox and a far cheaper solution that lets them continue to ignore the elephant in the room of actually producing next gen quality assets and the animations required to keep those assets out of the uncanny valley. There being plain cheap period.

 

[SlimySnake]

Slimy, when you refer to playing Jedi Survivor at 30 fps are you playing PC or PS5? I know you have talked about playing both ...

I am playing on pc at 40 fps. Game can’t maintain a solid 60 fps and drops way too much between 40-60.

 

[ChiefDada]

The marshlands in Burning Shores is chef's kiss.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Some of the NPC’s in CP77 are amazing but the vast majority of pedestrians on the street do indeed look a couple of generations behind the curve lol. My problem with CP77 is that it’s all so false. The whole thing from the buildings you can’t go in or interact with to the shit NPC’s to the pretty boring city layout just feels dead and lifeless to me no matter what sort of RT they use compared to something like GTAV which is now 10 years old but feels infinitely more like a real city.

Horizon II & Burning Shores raised the bar even above Naughty Dog when it comes to character models even side quest NPC’s are ridiculous looking.

 

[SlimySnake]

Can you share a video link concerning the scene/setpiece ? I looked up the final fight and it was not up to the level you're describing not even close really, from what I have seen of the game its pretty inconsistent and hardly jawdropping so a surprise would be welcome.

Its not the final boss. This was an end of a level kind of setpiece. I tried to youtube it but nothing came up. I dont know the exact name of the encounter so hard to google it.

 

[Hugare]

Holy fuck.

Can we please get an FPS with this level of animation and fidelity. I don't care if its 4-5 hours long like Call of Duty.

This guy apparently worked on MW2019 reload animations.

You wouldnt want to play a FPS with this level of animation.

Thats why its so different to whats present in MW 2019, despite being made by the same guy

FPS animations are quick so you can stay in control of the game. Having to wait 10 seconds for a gun to reload when you are being shot at, even during a singleplayer campaign, wouldnt work.

For multiplayer its even worse. COD is a twitch shooter, every milisecond counts, so you cant have realistic animations.

Its by design

"Why not add them to a 'realistic' shooter like Hell Let Loose, then?". Again, its multiplayer focused. And watching the same 10 seconds animation everytime you want to reload would get boring fast.

 

[OCASM]

What PS4 games were supposed to look like:

What PS5 games look like:

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I am playing on pc at 40 fps. Game can’t maintain a solid 60 fps and drops way too much between 40-60.

I could've swore you said you tried it in 30 fps mode ....

Have you played it on ps5 at all? If so does it look anywhere close to the PC? Is it even playable at 30 fps?

 

[ChiefDada]

What's the status of Jedi Survivor on PS5? I've been waiting to pull the trigger based on initial performance reviews in both modes. Is it safe to play? Coming from Burning Shores, will it be a letdown or a worthy competitor for current gen visuals?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

What's the status of Jedi Survivor on PS5? I've been waiting to pull the trigger based on initial performance reviews in both modes. Is it safe to play? Coming from Burning Shores, will it be a letdown or a worthy competitor for current gen visuals?

This what I want to know. Does it look especially bad in day-time environments, even in fidelity mode, due to artifacting?

 

[SlimySnake]

I could've swore you said you tried it in 30 fps mode ....

Have you played it on ps5 at all? If so does it look anywhere close to the PC? Is it even playable at 30 fps?

Nope. Only got it on PC.

I have played almost all sony games at 30 fps. I dont think 30 fps is a dealbreaker. especially in a game like this.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Nope. Only got it on PC.

I have played almost all sony games at 30 fps. I dont think 30 fps is a dealbreaker. especially in a game like this.

Gotcha thanks

 

[CamHostage]

I've been wanting animations smooth like this for so long. I'm not sure if they would ever get THAT smooth, but anywhere close would be nice.

So, I brought this up in a different thread, but echoing something of Hugare's post, can I ask what is it that you're expecting this to add to the generation's graphical fidelity conversation? What is is that you like about this with respect to games?

Because the way I see it, that video and the guy's archive actually serve as a good demonstration of why you don't see that level of animation in games, and also what the difference is between demos (like many of what's been shared here by others) versus actual game integration.

So, yes, this is very cool to look at, there's certainly that. He is good. But if we were to look at this as something which we should be seeing in games by now, we kind of can't. For one thing, it's not realtime. (It looks to be built in Maya, but otherwise there's not a lot of details on his process.) And it's not next-gen assets. (The hand model/rig is data made I believe with Sandstorm Insurgency mods in Blender, and the gun was made for a Half-Life 2 mod.) And it's not an advanced animation system or innovative IK solution; although certainly there's some nice assistance from the system in there, this level of detail is mostly achieved through hard manual work, locked to the motions it was rendered for. And it's 27 seconds long, and it doesn't start and end at a base pose to blend with other game animation.

This video was made for the purpose of this video, as an exercise of what this guy can do. It's a pro practicing and flexing. In real life, this guy knows the difference between what he made here and what he has to do in an actual game scenario. And interestingly, he actually demonstrates that difference in a different video. On his entry into a Halo: CE Magnum Animations challenge, he experimented with what could be done within the actual confines of the game, meaning the real frame limits of how long shooting and reloading take in the game as well as the need to blend in and out of regular gameplay aiming positions.



This still is not "realtime" (and it would need to be further optimized/edited to fit this one animation into the system requirements, even on "next-gen" platforms,) but it is animation much more tailored for the confines of real-world usage.

 

[alloush]

random npcs

I didn’t say it looked bad, it doesn’t look bad per se what I am saying is, to me, it doesn’t look as good as some people make it out to be. Too much noise. And honestly the NPC’s you posted look decent but nothing special look at HFW’s NPCs and compare.

 

[alloush]

Some of the NPC’s in CP77 are amazing but the vast majority of pedestrians on the street do indeed look a couple of generations behind the curve lol. My problem with CP77 is that it’s all so false. The whole thing from the buildings you can’t go in or interact with to the shit NPC’s to the pretty boring city layout just feels dead and lifeless to me no matter what sort of RT they use compared to something like GTAV which is now 10 years old but feels infinitely more like a real city.

Horizon II & Burning Shores raised the bar even above Naughty Dog when it comes to character models even side quest NPC’s are ridiculous looking.

THIS. This a billion times. This is exactly how I feel about CP but I just couldn’t put it into words, so thanks lol.

The vast majority of NPCs are coming straight out of a PS2, and that term you used to describe the game as “false” this is the most accurate description of the game, “false”. The game feels generic in a way.

 

[alloush]

Also, congrats on reaching 100 pages you guys, we did it. Happy 100 pages anniversary

 

[Represent.]

KZ3 gun models still look spectacular.

 

[Turk1993]

I didn’t say it looked bad, it doesn’t look bad per se what I am saying is, to me, it doesn’t look as good as some people make it out to be. Too much noise. And honestly the NPC’s you posted look decent but nothing special look at HFW’s NPCs and compare.

THIS. This a billion times. This is exactly how I feel about CP but I just couldn’t put it into words, so thanks lol.

The vast majority of NPCs are coming straight out of a PS2, and that term you used to describe the game as “false” this is the most accurate description of the game, “false”. The game feels generic in a way.

Some of the NPC’s in CP77 are amazing but the vast majority of pedestrians on the street do indeed look a couple of generations behind the curve lol. My problem with CP77 is that it’s all so false. The whole thing from the buildings you can’t go in or interact with to the shit NPC’s to the pretty boring city layout just feels dead and lifeless to me no matter what sort of RT they use compared to something like GTAV which is now 10 years old but feels infinitely more like a real city.

Horizon II & Burning Shores raised the bar even above Naughty Dog when it comes to character models even side quest NPC’s are ridiculous looking.

All i hear is that npcs this npcs that and how inconsistent CP2077 is but all of you that tell me that are praising HFW which i find hilarious. HFW is far more inconsistent than CP2077 yet you guys act like it looks great all the time. And there are also lots of average looking NPCS in HFW that look on par or even worse than some models of CP2077. So does that make the npcs in HFW also look like PS2 models because of those average models.

Just look at this, it can go from looking like this

To this

And i haven't showen the other shitty indoor locations yet with low res textures and bad lighting. And this is from a game that is in my top 5 best looking games on all platforms and easily the best looking game on console.

 

[KXVXII9X]

So, I brought this up in a different thread, but echoing something of Hugare's post, can I ask what is it that you're expecting this to add to the generation's graphical fidelity conversation? What is is that you like about this with respect to games?

Because the way I see it, that video and the guy's archive actually serve as a good demonstration of why you don't see that level of animation in games, and also what the difference is between demos (like many of what's been shared here by others) versus actual game integration.

So, yes, this is very cool to look at, there's certainly that. He is good. But if we were to look at this as something which we should be seeing in games by now, we kind of can't. For one thing, it's not realtime. (It looks to be built in Maya, but otherwise there's not a lot of details on his process.) And it's not next-gen assets. (The hand model/rig is data made I believe with Sandstorm Insurgency mods in Blender, and the gun was made for a Half-Life 2 mod.) And it's not an advanced animation system or innovative IK solution; although certainly there's some nice assistance from the system in there, this level of detail is mostly achieved through hard manual work, locked to the motions it was rendered for. And it's 27 seconds long, and it doesn't start and end at a base pose to blend with other game animation.

This video was made for the purpose of this video, as an exercise of what this guy can do. It's a pro practicing and flexing. In real life, this guy knows the difference between what he made here and what he has to do in an actual game scenario. And interestingly, he actually demonstrates that difference in a different video. On his entry into a Halo: CE Magnum Animations challenge, he experimented with what could be done within the actual confines of the game, meaning the real frame limits of how long shooting and reloading take in the game as well as the need to blend in and out of regular gameplay aiming positions.



This still is not "realtime" (and it would need to be further optimized/edited to fit this one animation into the system requirements, even on "next-gen" platforms,) but it is animation much more tailored for the confines of real-world usage.

For me I don't expect that level of animation for a long time, but I do expect more development with motion matching and less games that just borrow similar animated walk and run cycles and such.

I think it is jarring how graphics increase, animations and physics haven't much. In fact, I have seen less animations in games that in the past. The feel less fluid and lack momentum and weight. I have noticed this with Ubisoft's titles such as Assassin's Creed Unity to Valhalla and Watch Dogs 1 to Watch Dog's Legion. This also extends outside of the JUST animations, but things like camera work, physics, environmental interactions, and AI behavior. It affects game feel for me.

I this TLOU part 2 was great with motion matching and conceptual animations and actions. It did affect gameplay. It wasn't just the animations but everything working together. Even AA games like Sifu had some good contextual animations. Just the simplest things like being able to knock someone down the stairs and have them knock another NPC over seem so absent from games. Depending on where you were in the environment or if you were near something, you would perform a different action. It made the combat feel dynamic and impactful. It is one reason I like Nintendo first party games like Mario, Zelda, and Splatoon. They feel good to play partly due to their animation quality. The way Mario runs, the way the squids move and the paint splashes, and the way the world behaves, and the way Link feels grounded in BotW feel satisfying. Overall it enhances the immersion and reduces the uncanny valley.

I also feel just focusing on graphical fidelity without movement of any kind is odd. They kind of go together.

 

[CamHostage]

For me I don't expect that level of animation for a long time, but I do expect more development with motion matching and less games that just borrow similar animated walk and run cycles and such.

I think it is jarring how graphics increase, animations and physics haven't much. In fact, I have seen less animations in games that in the past. The feel less fluid and lack momentum and weight. I have noticed this with Ubisoft's titles such as Assassin's Creed Unity to Valhalla and Watch Dogs 1 to Watch Dog's Legion. This also extends outside of the JUST animations, but things like camera work, physics, environmental interactions, and AI behavior. It affects game feel for me.

I this TLOU part 2 was great with motion matching and conceptual animations and actions. It did affect gameplay. It wasn't just the animations but everything working together. Even AA games like Sifu had some good contextual animations. Just the simplest things like being able to knock someone down the stairs and have them knock another NPC over seem so absent from games. Depending on where you were in the environment or if you were near something, you would perform a different action. It made the combat feel dynamic and impactful. It is one reason I like Nintendo first party games like Mario, Zelda, and Splatoon. They feel good to play partly due to their animation quality. The way Mario runs, the way the squids move and the paint splashes, and the way the world behaves, and the way Link feels grounded in BotW feel satisfying. Overall it enhances the immersion and reduces the uncanny valley.

I also feel just focusing on graphical fidelity without movement of any kind is odd. They kind of go together.

Yep, that's the cool shit; that, and training models through ML to have the natural level of detail an animator would have to bust their ass or work a lifetime to replicate.

I disagree that animation and physics hasn't increased, but I would say there was a factor when developers had to do it all themselves that they worked to show off by adding incidentals, whereas when the machines do a lot of the work and the detail of the hand-done work must be so meticulously built to just get the basics down, sometimes the incidentals don't get added in. And frankly, the cool stuff has not been popping like in the past despite real revolutions under the hood. You could sell GTA just on its innovative ragdolls as you drive over people on the streets ,whereas Spider-Man getting ML muscles is technically impressive (and once you go there you start to feel that games without that detail work look a little "gamey" in the character movement,) but you'd never invest more gameplay time into a game with great muscle definition.

Physics is a bit the same, although it has been a frustrating point in game history where cool physics just don't get focused on like it used to even though the hardware should be more capable than ever. Again, in the past, you could make a Blast Corps or Red Faction and gamers would buy the game just to see how cool explosions and damage can be, but these days that's not going to sell a product. Mix that apathy of game buyers with maybe some stagnation in the tech (we all had great hopes for Unreal Chaos but nothing has come close to doing in-game anything like the Robo Recall Chaos demo from 4 years ago) and you have a bit of a bummer for crazy physics fans. But there have been strides if you look at the detail work, and then hopefully we'll get some more wham from future projects in the future.

UE has made some strides recently with animation using a new version of its Physics Control system, as well as other tools and systems they've built into UE. (UE5 in particular has had a string of animation bulletpoints each new version of the development suite, some of which is for gamers in terms of cool animation while others are for develpers to make animation easier so they can then make it cooler.) I don't know if below is really what you're looking for since it's intentionally base-level (if you want a look at the bleeding-edge stuff, you can get some of that from the "Next Generation Character Deformation" portion of Epic's GDC 2023 animation chat, but it isn't very sexy to watch if you don't know the tech,) but there's some cool stuff in there about how character models gain subtle motions when they are aware of physics enacted upon them (sort of like GTA ragdolls where the "virtual stuntman" models had awareness to try to cushion the impact and body position when they get tossed around.)

 

[KXVXII9X]

Yep, that's the cool shit; that, and training models through ML to have the natural level of detail an animator would have to bust their ass or work a lifetime to replicate.

I disagree that animation and physics hasn't increased, but I would say there was a factor when developers had to do it all themselves that they worked to show off by adding incidentals, whereas when the machines do a lot of the work and the detail of the hand-done work must be so meticulously built to just get the basics down, sometimes the incidentals don't get added in. And frankly, the cool stuff has not been popping like in the past despite real revolutions under the hood. You could sell GTA just on its innovative ragdolls as you drive over people on the streets ,whereas Spider-Man getting ML muscles is technically impressive (and once you go there you start to feel that games without that detail work look a little "gamey" in the character movement,) but you'd never invest more gameplay time into a game with great muscle definition.

Physics is a bit the same, although it has been a frustrating point in game history where cool physics just don't get focused on like it used to even though the hardware should be more capable than ever. Again, in the past, you could make a Blast Corps or Red Faction and gamers would buy the game just to see how cool explosions and damage can be, but these days that's not going to sell a product. Mix that apathy of game buyers with maybe some stagnation in the tech (we all had great hopes for Unreal Chaos but nothing has come close to doing in-game anything like the Robo Recall Chaos demo from 4 years ago) and you have a bit of a bummer for crazy physics fans. But there have been strides if you look at the detail work, and then hopefully we'll get some more wham from future projects in the future.

UE has made some strides recently with animation using a new version of its Physics Control system, as well as other tools and systems they've built into UE. (UE5 in particular has had a string of animation bulletpoints each new version of the development suite, some of which is for gamers in terms of cool animation while others are for develpers to make animation easier so they can then make it cooler.) I don't know if below is really what you're looking for since it's intentionally base-level (if you want a look at the bleeding-edge stuff, you can get some of that from the "Next Generation Character Deformation" portion of Epic's GDC 2023 animation chat, but it isn't very sexy to watch if you don't know the tech,) but there's some cool stuff in there about how character models gain subtle motions when they are aware of physics enacted upon them (sort of like GTA ragdolls where the "virtual stuntman" models had awareness to try to cushion the impact and body position when they get tossed around.)

Seems like you know a ton in this area. This was exactly the kind of demonstration I was thinking of when writing about this. I also remember the first UE5 demo talking about motion matching and better animations. Same with videos on cloth physics. It seems like there is a ton of work being made to implement these kinds of things in later games which is good. I'm just really impatient haha. I know this stuff is extremely complex and takes a ton of time. A lot of it I don't fully understand but I take a notice when I see it in action and how it enhances games. I understand what you are saying about how some cool systems and advancements like muscle definition may not impact engagement.

 

[alloush]

All i hear is that npcs this npcs that and how inconsistent CP2077 is but all of you that tell me that are praising HFW which i find hilarious. HFW is far more inconsistent than CP2077 yet you guys act like it looks great all the time. And there are also lots of average looking NPCS in HFW that look on par or even worse than some models of CP2077. So does that make the npcs in HFW also look like PS2 models because of those average models.

Just look at this, it can go from looking like this

To this

And i haven't showen the other shitty indoor locations yet with low res textures and bad lighting. And this is from a game that is in my top 5 best looking games on all platforms and easily the best looking game on console.

I dunno why you are going to such great lengths to prove to us that CP has great-looking NPCs and HFW doesn't. Every kid and his dog know that HFW has got the most detailed NPCs ever made in a game. Again, I did not say CP was a bad-looking game, far from it, at times it looks gorgeous but it is still a game that at times looks hella ugly and outdated, very noisy, it is like CD wanted to cram everything in all at once.

Let's not forget how this game was a hot mess when it came out and no amount of patches and raytracing will make the game look that much better, it was created for last gen consoles and it was rushed. Also the initial comparison was against RDR2 I don't even remember how HFW came into the convo lol.

 

[CamHostage]

Seems like you know a ton in this area. This was exactly the kind of demonstration I was thinking of when writing about this. I also remember the first UE5 demo talking about motion matching and better animations. Same with videos on cloth physics. It seems like there is a ton of work being made to implement these kinds of things in later games which is good. I'm just really impatient haha. I know this stuff is extremely complex and takes a ton of time. A lot of it I don't fully understand but I take a notice when I see it in action and how it enhances games. I understand what you are saying about how some cool systems and advancements like muscle definition may not impact engagement.

Only from watching demos and talks about stuff when it's interesting; I haven't done animation since like Shockwave, but some of the principles of the challenges animators work with and the ideas behind emerging tech make sense when you see enough of if.

A lot of this stuff you are patiently waiting for is in the games you're playing now, but it's just not very apparent because the flaws of where it isn't or is working badly sticks out. Like, you began by complaining that Ubisoft is falling off in animation detail, but Ubi has been on the forefront of animation experimentation for a while now, building off of successful systems pioneered in PoP and fleshed out in Assassin's Creed. The stuff UE is showcasing today has been showcased in Ubisoft tech talks from 2016. (Not to say Unreal is behind, or that other animation software studios weren't also doing what Ubi was doing in the prevous decade, but the Ubi demos have been widely shared as examples of a good sign of the future.)




https://montreal.ubisoft.com/en/introducing-learned-motion-matching/

Can't say why animation is feeling worse for you in some recent games, though. It's possible that AI animation making things smoother might be making it too smooth, that some work needs to go into putting some impact back in as developers get used to this way of working? Or it may just be a factor of budget/time, that even with offloading there's still so much work invested in current-gen games that some of the fineness you're expecting isn't getting done (especially with some nervousness in the market over astronomical budgets and all the real money being made in GAAS.) Or it could be that there's so much reliance on reality that animators are missing or can't make use of the magic of animation; the squash and stretch that you singled out in Mario or Splatoon comes from old-school methods where they broke the model in order to make it look the best for the viewer, and unless you're mocapping Jackie Chan or Jim Carrey, that kind of livelihood isn't being breathed into the characters.

You noticing fluid animation work in TLoU2 though is a sign that the tools work when they're used right, and we'll see how these systems advance from here.

 

[OCASM]

Only from watching demos and talks about stuff when it's interesting; I haven't done animation since like Shockwave, but some of the principles of the challenges animators work with and the ideas behind emerging tech make sense when you see enough of if.

A lot of this stuff you are patiently waiting for is in the games you're playing now, but it's just not very apparent because the flaws of where it isn't or is working badly sticks out. Like, you began by complaining that Ubisoft is falling off in animation detail, but Ubi has been on the forefront of animation experimentation for a while now, building off of successful systems pioneered in PoP and fleshed out in Assassin's Creed. The stuff UE is showcasing today has been showcased in Ubisoft tech talks from 2016. (Not to say Unreal is behind, or that other animation software studios weren't also doing what Ubi was doing in the prevous decade, but the Ubi demos have been widely shared as examples of a good sign of the future.)




https://montreal.ubisoft.com/en/introducing-learned-motion-matching/

Can't say why animation is feeling worse for you in some recent games, though. It's possible that AI animation making things smoother might be making it too smooth, that some work needs to go into putting some impact back in as developers get used to this way of working? Or it may just be a factor of budget/time, that even with offloading there's still so much work invested in current-gen games that some of the fineness you're expecting isn't getting done (especially with some nervousness in the market over astronomical budgets and all the real money being made in GAAS.) Or it could be that there's so much reliance on reality that animators are missing or can't make use of the magic of animation; the squash and stretch that you singled out in Mario or Splatoon comes from old-school methods where they broke the model in order to make it look the best for the viewer, and unless you're mocapping Jackie Chan or Jim Carrey, that kind of livelihood isn't being breathed into the characters.

You noticing fluid animation work in TLoU2 though is a sign that the tools work when they're used right, and we'll see how these systems advance from here.

One only has to look at Jedi Survivor to notice how ultra-janky modern animation systems can look in the wrong hands. Makes me miss the PS2 era.

 

[Balducci30]

All i hear is that npcs this npcs that and how inconsistent CP2077 is but all of you that tell me that are praising HFW which i find hilarious. HFW is far more inconsistent than CP2077 yet you guys act like it looks great all the time. And there are also lots of average looking NPCS in HFW that look on par or even worse than some models of CP2077. So does that make the npcs in HFW also look like PS2 models because of those average models.

Just look at this, it can go from looking like this

To this

And i haven't showen the other shitty indoor locations yet with low res textures and bad lighting. And this is from a game that is in my top 5 best looking games on all platforms and easily the best looking game on console.

Thank you for posting this - the games visuals are great but it’s far more inconsistent than people are acknowledging

 

[CGNoire]

random npcs

Im sorry but its true. You just letting your good taste in that awesome art style cloud your opinion. The CP assets are significantly outdated and there skin shader is straight weak. Looks like clay compared to its contemporaries

 

[H . R . 2]

All i hear is that npcs this npcs that and how inconsistent CP2077 is but all of you that tell me that are praising HFW which i find hilarious. HFW is far more inconsistent than CP2077 yet you guys act like it looks great all the time. And there are also lots of average looking NPCS in HFW that look on par or even worse than some models of CP2077. So does that make the npcs in HFW also look like PS2 models because of those average models.

Just look at this, it can go from looking like this

To this

And i haven't showen the other shitty indoor locations yet with low res textures and bad lighting. And this is from a game that is in my top 5 best looking games on all platforms and easily the best looking game on console.

based on the texture/shader quality, I would say these screens seem to have been captured on a PS4.
I might be wrong but I think I have seen enough footage of the game by now to be surprised by this sudden inconsistency

 

[GymWolf]

I envy people who got impressed by that jedi survivor setpiece...

The game continue to be utterly unimpressive to me (maxed out on pc at 4k of course)

 

[Schmendrick]

I seriously shouldn't have played CP2077's overdrive mode. After getting used to the incredible coherency and depth scenes get from pathtraced lighting, going back to something like HFW where anything but direct light immediately reminds you that it's faked is just a pain. And that game is pretty much the crown jewel of console graphics right now ....
I pretty much ruined anything that tries to look realistic for at least the rest of this gen for me.....

 

[CGNoire]

I seriously shouldn't have played CP2077's overdrive mode. After getting used to the incredible coherency and depth scenes get from pathtraced lighting, going back to something like HFW where anything but direct light immediately reminds you that it's faked is just a pain. And that game is pretty much the crown jewel of console graphics right now ....
I pretty much ruined anything that tries to look realistic for at least the rest of this gen for me.....

I do realistic painting for a hobby and staring at photos for reference for hrs a day studying nuances in lighting makes it real difficult to be impressed by any lighting that doesnt have a clear directionality to it. The lack of self shadowing and lack of simple occulsion being the worst offenses. PT makes me salivate.

I do however think we still need a massive upgrade in character rendering, animation and physics before I would want it mandatory.

 

[alloush]

 

[Hunnybun]

I seriously shouldn't have played CP2077's overdrive mode. After getting used to the incredible coherency and depth scenes get from pathtraced lighting, going back to something like HFW where anything but direct light immediately reminds you that it's faked is just a pain. And that game is pretty much the crown jewel of console graphics right now ....
I pretty much ruined anything that tries to look realistic for at least the rest of this gen for me.....

Yup. Should've been pretty obvious tbh.

 

[Turk1993]

I dunno why you are going to such great lengths to prove to us that CP has great-looking NPCs and HFW doesn't. Every kid and his dog know that HFW has got the most detailed NPCs ever made in a game.

I never said that the HFW characters where bad looking, all i proved was that both games have good looking and average looking npcs. You and the other guy where talking shit like CP2077 having PS2 quality npcs which is straight out bullshit. I have discussed this with GymWolf in the past in this thread, and we both agreed that Aloy had the best character model out of any game and that CP2077 main characters where comparable to HFW main characters. And i have never said that HFW has bad character models, far from that it has the best actually. What i said was if you think that npcs in CP2077 look like PS2 models, are you calling the same quality characters in HFW also PS2 quality than.

Again, I did not say CP was a bad-looking game, far from it, at times it looks gorgeous but it is still a game that at times looks hella ugly and outdated, very noisy, it is like CD wanted to cram everything in all at once.

Again, this is far from true, with the path tracing update the game is the most consistent good looking game out there. There are more ugly situation/scenes in HFW than CP2077 and i have played them both on with there best quality settings.

Let's not forget how this game was a hot mess when it came out and no amount of patches and raytracing will make the game look that much better, it was created for last gen consoles and it was rushed. Also the initial comparison was against RDR2 I don't even remember how HFW came into the convo lol.

On pc it looked already incredible on launch the RT and tech in the game was and is light years ahead of anything released that year and even today. And the path tracing update is several generations ahead of anything you will see on consoles or 99% of other games even on pc. If HFW ever gets PT lighting or even RT lighting update than it would be full next gen game since its the weakest part of that game. HFW lighting is soo far behind CP2077 lighting that its not even fair to compare them. It literally transforms the look of the game, and fixes almost any problem with lighting.

Im sorry but its true. You just letting your good taste in that awesome art style cloud your opinion.

Nothing to do with art style, CP2077 technically is generational better than HFW and thats a fact. The lighting alone is several generation ahead and than you have the RT reflections and shadows. Those are areas that HFW lacks heavy. The art is also great and combined with awesome tech you get the best looking game out there.

The CP assets are significantly outdated and there skin shader is straight weak. Looks like clay compared to its contemporaries

Again such a hyperbole nonsense, it has one of the best skin shaders and assest out there
Just look at the skin shaders on his hand and Jackie

based on the texture/shader quality, I would say these screens seem to have been captured on a PS4.
I might be wrong but I think I have seen enough footage of the game by now to be surprised by this sudden inconsistency

Nope all from PS5 quality and balanced settings. There are more scenes that are even more inconsistent than what i showed and the inconsistent lighting makes it even worse. Just like in this scene

The moment you try to walk out the tunnel it looks like this

And when you move 1m further it look like this

Again this was just to show that no game looks perfect all the time and all the games can have places looking worse than there best looking areas. Im also not tryna put HFW down since that would be stupid since the game looks incredible. But people here talking soo much trash about CP2077 while ignoring all the bad stuff from HFW is just

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I could've swore you said you tried it in 30 fps mode ....

Have you played it on ps5 at all? If so does it look anywhere close to the PC? Is it even playable at 30 fps?

Maybe getting confused with me as I'm playing it on PS5 in it's 30fps mode. The game is a locked 30fps, has good quality motion blur, perfect frame pacing and great controller response for a 30fps game so it looks and feels great. Nothing like 60fps in general of course but that mode is a mess on PS5 with screen tearing amongst the worst of it along with massive framedrops down into the sub 30's from 60fps in certain areas. It's just not a pleasant experience and worth it to me. I usually play all games at 60fps if there's the option but this might have just given me food for thought because it's astounding looking at times in the 30fps mode and surprisingly fun to play even considering it's a Dark Souls type game where reaction times are key.

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

I never said that the HFW characters where bad looking, all i proved was that both games have good looking and average looking npcs. You and the other guy where talking shit like CP2077 having PS2 quality npcs which is straight out bullshit. I have discussed this with GymWolf in the past in this thread, and we both agreed that Aloy had the best character model out of any game and that CP2077 main characters where comparable to HFW main characters. And i have never said that HFW has bad character models, far from that it has the best actually. What i said was if you think that npcs in CP2077 look like PS2 models, are you calling the same quality characters in HFW also PS2 quality than.

Again, this is far from true, with the path tracing update the game is the most consistent good looking game out there. There are more ugly situation/scenes in HFW than CP2077 and i have played them both on with there best quality settings.

On pc it looked already incredible on launch the RT and tech in the game was and is light years ahead of anything released that year and even today. And the path tracing update is several generations ahead of anything you will see on consoles or 99% of other games even on pc. If HFW ever gets PT lighting or even RT lighting update than it would be full next gen game since its the weakest part of that game. HFW lighting is soo far behind CP2077 lighting that its not even fair to compare them. It literally transforms the look of the game, and fixes almost any problem with lighting.


Nothing to do with art style, CP2077 technically is generational better than HFW and thats a fact. The lighting alone is several generation ahead and than you have the RT reflections and shadows. Those are areas that HFW lacks heavy. The art is also great and combined with awesome tech you get the best looking game out there.


Again such a hyperbole nonsense, it has one of the best skin shaders and assest out there
Just look at the skin shaders on his hand and Jackie

Nope all from PS5 quality and balanced settings. There are more scenes that are even more inconsistent than what i showed and the inconsistent lighting makes it even worse. Just like in this scene

The moment you try to walk out the tunnel it looks like this

And when you move 1m further it look like this

Again this was just to show that no game looks perfect all the time and all the games can have places looking worse than there best looking areas. Im also not tryna put HFW down since that would be stupid since the game looks incredible. But people here talking soo much trash about CP2077 while ignoring all the bad stuff from HFW is just

You're comparing a game on a ridiculous PC with full Path Tracing to a game which uses baked lighting (like 95% of AAA games) running on a console which costs less than half of what that GPU costs alone. What's your point?

Cyberpunk can at times look like the best looking game ever made and like Horizon 2 and every other AAA game can also look bland and uninteresting at times. Horizon's World is far, far larger and far, far more interesting to me personally (it has several different looks in one World) and it's character rendering is the best in the business.

 

[SlimySnake]

Horizon can look extremely ugly in some areas. Indoors especially is really really bad. Though that new cauldron looks amazing so go figure.

Both cyberpunk and HFW have flaws. RDR2 looks stunning and far more consistent but its obvious that the character models is where the cutbacks had to be made. every game has cutbacks. Especially last gen games like HFW and Cyberpunk.

 

[Turk1993]

You're comparing a game on a ridiculous PC with full Path Tracing to a game which uses baked lighting (like 95% of AAA games) running on a console which costs less than half of what that GPU costs alone. What's your point?

Cyberpunk can at times look like the best looking game ever made and like Horizon 2 and every other AAA game can also look bland and uninteresting at times. Horizon's World is far, far larger and far, far more interesting to me personally (it has several different looks in one World) and it's character rendering is the best in the business.

Look man what GG have done with HFW on PS5 with a cross gen game is really impressive and the game just runs like a dream on top of that. I called it literally the best looking game on console and top 5 on all platforms. It has even graphical features that are better than even CP2077 maxed out on pc. GG really put most dev to shame and exposed most incompetent devs. But some guys here where saying that CP2077 is inconsistent and has PS2 looking characters and outdated assets. But they where praising HFW like it has no flaws or problems and calling out stuff from CP2077. So i just showed them that no game is perfect and that CP2077 is not like that on pc if you have the hardware that can run it. And the RT/PT really elevates the visuals heavy in CP2077. They are both impressive and are 2 of the best looking games out there.

 

[Germuso]

 

[alloush]

You're comparing a game on a ridiculous PC with full Path Tracing to a game which uses baked lighting (like 95% of AAA games) running on a console which costs less than half of what that GPU costs alone. What's your point?

Cyberpunk can at times look like the best looking game ever made and like Horizon 2 and every other AAA game can also look bland and uninteresting at times. Horizon's World is far, far larger and far, far more interesting to me personally (it has several different looks in one World) and it's character rendering is the best in the business.

Honestly no idea why Turk brought HFW into this, I really don’t care about HFW. The initial discussion was around a comparison between RDR2 and CP in which I have stated my preference towards RDR2 then all of a sudden I see novels by Turk1993 about how CP is gorgeous and HFW is fugly lol.

Turk it’s all good everyone has a preference but I seriously cannot recall how the HFW comparisons started. For your info I hate the hero lighting on HFW, it just didn’t do it for me.

 

[GymWolf]

I never said that the HFW characters where bad looking, all i proved was that both games have good looking and average looking npcs. You and the other guy where talking shit like CP2077 having PS2 quality npcs which is straight out bullshit. I have discussed this with GymWolf in the past in this thread, and we both agreed that Aloy had the best character model out of any game and that CP2077 main characters where comparable to HFW main characters. And i have never said that HFW has bad character models, far from that it has the best actually. What i said was if you think that npcs in CP2077 look like PS2 models, are you calling the same quality characters in HFW also PS2 quality than.

Again, this is far from true, with the path tracing update the game is the most consistent good looking game out there. There are more ugly situation/scenes in HFW than CP2077 and i have played them both on with there best quality settings.

On pc it looked already incredible on launch the RT and tech in the game was and is light years ahead of anything released that year and even today. And the path tracing update is several generations ahead of anything you will see on consoles or 99% of other games even on pc. If HFW ever gets PT lighting or even RT lighting update than it would be full next gen game since its the weakest part of that game. HFW lighting is soo far behind CP2077 lighting that its not even fair to compare them. It literally transforms the look of the game, and fixes almost any problem with lighting.


Nothing to do with art style, CP2077 technically is generational better than HFW and thats a fact. The lighting alone is several generation ahead and than you have the RT reflections and shadows. Those are areas that HFW lacks heavy. The art is also great and combined with awesome tech you get the best looking game out there.


Again such a hyperbole nonsense, it has one of the best skin shaders and assest out there
Just look at the skin shaders on his hand and Jackie

Nope all from PS5 quality and balanced settings. There are more scenes that are even more inconsistent than what i showed and the inconsistent lighting makes it even worse. Just like in this scene

The moment you try to walk out the tunnel it looks like this

And when you move 1m further it look like this

Again this was just to show that no game looks perfect all the time and all the games can have places looking worse than there best looking areas. Im also not tryna put HFW down since that would be stupid since the game looks incredible. But people here talking soo much trash about CP2077 while ignoring all the bad stuff from HFW is just

Yeah, for the sequel i need some of that sweet ue5 nanite tech or something similar so every surface is gonna be pristine.

Decima is an inferior engine even if only just for that (and well, lumen).


Cyberpunk has the same problem, and well, every game on the market really.

 

[Turk1993]

Honestly no idea why Turk brought HFW into this, I really don’t care about HFW. The initial discussion was around a comparison between RDR2 and CP in which I have stated my preference towards RDR2 then all of a sudden I see novels by Turk1993 about how CP is gorgeous and HFW is fugly lol.

Turk it’s all good everyone has a preference but I seriously cannot recall how the HFW comparisons started. For your info I hate the hero lighting on HFW, it just didn’t do it for me.

Bruh are you serious , you guys said this before i even posted anything about it.

Yeah, I think the things you mentioned are why I don't really like CB's graphics and looks to me a bit cartoonish. The NPCs to me are prolly the worst part about the game, too. From what I have seen they look straight out of
a PS2 (that might be a tad exaggeration though lol).
Yeah, that might be it. Too much crap going on at the same time, but also due to the things @MadchesterManc mentioned in the post above.

And then i posted pictures of CP2077 and then you replied with this and agreed to Polygonal post with "BILLION TIMES" lol.

I didn’t say it looked bad, it doesn’t look bad per se what I am saying is, to me, it doesn’t look as good as some people make it out to be. Too much noise. And honestly the NPC’s you posted look decent but nothing special look at HFW’s NPCs and compare.

Some of the NPC’s in CP77 are amazing but the vast majority of pedestrians on the street do indeed look a couple of generations behind the curve lol. My problem with CP77 is that it’s all so false. The whole thing from the buildings you can’t go in or interact with to the shit NPC’s to the pretty boring city layout just feels dead and lifeless to me no matter what sort of RT they use compared to something like GTAV which is now 10 years old but feels infinitely more like a real city.

Horizon II & Burning Shores raised the bar even above Naughty Dog when it comes to character models even side quest NPC’s are ridiculous looking.

THIS. This a billion times. This is exactly how I feel about CP but I just couldn’t put it into words, so thanks lol.

The vast majority of NPCs are coming straight out of a PS2, and that term you used to describe the game as “false” this is the most accurate description of the game, “false”. The game feels generic in a way.

 

[yamaci17]

It looks amazing for an open world game. nothing more.


You are blind man. TLOU2 is the best looking game out there. Nothing comes close.
tlou2 looks straight up photorealistic at times.


rdr2


Don't get me wrong. RDR2 looks fantstic but tlou2 looks on another level.

rdr 2 runs at a jank weird checkerboarded 1440p resolution on consoles

go try the game at native 4k on ur 3080. then tell me if it does not look on par with tlou2 or not. no need for any video, u have to see it for urself.

also tlou2 at 1440p resolution also looks horrendous on PS consoles anyways. game has never reached its actual potential with graphics. but at least it is pure 1440p with TAA. RDR2 is worse with weird checkerboarding ailments..

i can safely tell u : rdr2 open world graphics would MURDER tlou2 seattle graphics. even with baked lighting, yes. rdr2 GI is wonderful and fantastic. no idea what they use but it is. go look at something like gta iv from 2008. an open world freaking game has car spotlight shadows.

 

[rofif]

rdr 2 runs at a jank weird checkerboarded 1440p resolution on consoles

go try the game at native 4k on ur 3080. then tell me if it does not look on par with tlou2 or not. no need for any video, u have to see it for urself.

also tlou2 at 1440p resolution also looks horrendous on PS consoles anyways. game has never reached its actual potential with graphics. but at least it is pure 1440p with TAA. RDR2 is worse with weird checkerboarding ailments..

i can safely tell u : rdr2 open world graphics would MURDER tlou2 seattle graphics. even with baked lighting, yes. rdr2 GI is wonderful and fantastic. no idea what they use but it is. go look at something like gta iv from 2008. an open world freaking game has car spotlight shadows.

rdr2 can be running at 8k for all I care. In no world it comes close to tlou2 graphics. Gotta be crazy to think otherwise

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Maybe getting confused with me as I'm playing it on PS5 in it's 30fps mode. The game is a locked 30fps, has good quality motion blur, perfect frame pacing and great controller response for a 30fps game so it looks and feels great. Nothing like 60fps in general of course but that mode is a mess on PS5 with screen tearing amongst the worst of it along with massive framedrops down into the sub 30's from 60fps in certain areas. It's just not a pleasant experience and worth it to me. I usually play all games at 60fps if there's the option but this might have just given me food for thought because it's astounding looking at times in the 30fps mode and surprisingly fun to play even considering it's a Dark Souls type game where reaction times are key.

Thanks for that. That's good to know. I respect the fact that this game has a great 30 fps mode with 3 forms of RT. They just need to improve the performance mode.

I hope they don't nerf the graphics in both modes just to get the performance mode running better.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

rdr 2 runs at a jank weird checkerboarded 1440p resolution on consoles

go try the game at native 4k on ur 3080. then tell me if it does not look on par with tlou2 or not. no need for any video, u have to see it for urself.

also tlou2 at 1440p resolution also looks horrendous on PS consoles anyways. game has never reached its actual potential with graphics. but at least it is pure 1440p with TAA. RDR2 is worse with weird checkerboarding ailments..

i can safely tell u : rdr2 open world graphics would MURDER tlou2 seattle graphics. even with baked lighting, yes. rdr2 GI is wonderful and fantastic. no idea what they use but it is. go look at something like gta iv from 2008. an open world freaking game has car spotlight shadows.

Rdr2 is NATIVE 4K on Xbox. The checkerboard is only on Ps4 pro/ps5

Looks fantastic on series x tho its sadly 30 fps because Rockstar are bums

It really blows that Sony hasn't patched LoU2 for ps5. I'm starting to worry they never will now.

 

[yamaci17]

Rdr2 is NATIVE 4K on Xbox. The checkerboard is only on Ps4 pro/ps5

Looks fantastic on series x tho its sadly 30 fps because Rockstar are bums

It really blows that Sony hasn't patched LoU2 for ps5. I'm starting to worry they never will now.

dunno he linked ps5 video labeled "4k" its no where near that

rdr2 only looks right / the way it is supposed to on one x / s x / native 4k

 

[SlimySnake]

Rdr2 is NATIVE 4K on Xbox. The checkerboard is only on Ps4 pro/ps5

Looks fantastic on series x tho its sadly 30 fps because Rockstar are bums

It really blows that Sony hasn't patched LoU2 for ps5. I'm starting to worry they never will now.

TLOU2 was patched on PS5. It runs at 60 fps now.

They havent released a PS5 only SKU for it but dont expect a big performance bump from it. Faster loading and thats about it.

 

[alloush]

Lol why are people always ready to call others things like crazy, blind etc the second said people disagree with them? People need to chill out a bit. Some feel insulted when you don’t agree with them and share their opinion, and are ready to pounce on you the second you disagree with them. Relax guys we are all in here for the same reason: gorgeous graphics!