plasmawave
Banned
Yup, before he deleted it because I don't think he was technically allowed to talk any of that.
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Hellena Taylor (Voice of Bayonetta) Describes How She was Offered only $4,000 USD to Voice Her Again in Bayonetta 3.
Closer
Member
Don't forget to take your medicine.
Boy bawang
Member
People have just become way too comfortable about generating outrage online.
digoutyoursoul
Member
If the article is accurate then surely she must of realised that at some point the truth will be told, that these companies with their lawyers/advisors would simply sort this out quickly. .
What is she playing at here, if she has been advised then it’s been very poor advice indeed.
What is she playing at here, if she has been advised then it’s been very poor advice indeed.
digoutyoursoul
Member
Question everything, women, men, wasps, the planet itself. Everything!!
Kamina
Golden Boy
In her mind she is a victim
Especially wasps.
Each summer i have intense discussions with them.
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Mister Wolf
Member
Never subscribed to that sexist idea in the first place. I'm not going to be prejudice against my own sex for the sake of the opposite sex. Nothing to gain from it. Everything to lose.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
For some reason the medium of video games seems to attract and produce a disproportionate amount of drama queening, dirty-laundry airing and suicide by Twitter.
Most of the prominent people in this biz are Twitter professionals. We’ve seen enough of these stories, they should be the first to know that unless your story and your past are absolutely as clean as a whistle, it won’t take long to find out some shit that WILL be used against you.
It’s too funny that the good old “honour and shame” GAF meme fits these cases so perfectly.
She ain’t gonna fuck you, bro.When this idiot circus is over, i hope Jennifer Hale finally gets some real praise for her role as Bayonettashe has been killing it in all the trailers! Jennifer Hale is not some cheap actress they took out of a whorehouse one day, nope she is a great actress with an actual prestigious career, the amount of disrespect and harrassment she's been getting from the manchildren is shameful
I kid, I kid.
Jason’s attitude is terrible and he is an absolute vulture, but he usually does do the research.
He was shrewd (or lucky) enough to wait until the Reee detectives found out about Taylor’s political leanings before publicly contesting her story, though. He knew contradicting a woman’s story against Nintendo would turn the hivemind against him.
I’ll question everything, except wasps.
With wasps it’s spray first, ask questions later.
GnomeChimpsky
Member
24 pages arguing over this non-story. Amazing...
kubricks
Member
These kind of internet drama is probably more entertaining than the game itself I kid you not.
This is a contract job so you are free to accept it or not based on the company's offer. If you think the company lowballed you it means you think you are worth more, in which case you should go out and get paid higher elsewhere instead of asking people to boycott the product you fucking dumbass.
I still do not understand what are people up in arms about in the first place, regardless of whether she lies or not.
This is a contract job so you are free to accept it or not based on the company's offer. If you think the company lowballed you it means you think you are worth more, in which case you should go out and get paid higher elsewhere instead of asking people to boycott the product you fucking dumbass.
I still do not understand what are people up in arms about in the first place, regardless of whether she lies or not.
DemonGamerTTT
Member
Those "internet militants" are not very smart to being with they jump into conclusions and are easily triggered.
They just want to be part of their "real life reality tv" where they play the white knight "heroes".
I really hope they sue that person for the NDA break. The game industry is being besiege by retards with an agenda and we can only hope they fail in bring it down, like they are doing with the movie/series industry.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Is it over? Are the dark days ending? Have we overcome?!#@!?ds.,kfgh
Calling 911 Melts Beams
Banned
its so sad that hellena taylor died of ligma
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
ok now everything makes sense
Touch fuzZy. get BizZay
Member
Happosai
Hold onto your panties
I thought the same. I'm not going to boycott...or refrain from purchasing Bayonetta 3 but...VAs do pick up a following. This wasn't her first role offered in the series either. Not sure what the deal was where Konami dropped David Hayter for Kiefer Sutherland (I like both) with MGS V but that didn't go well with fans. Also have to think in that case, we know Kiefer was offered a much larger sum for his VA role than they would have given a non-Hollywood VA like David Hayter. $4K is low for any job.
Jsisto
Member
I want to hear a legitimate argument on why a voice actor should make more, or even close to the same amount, as the numerous developers who actually created the game behind the scenes. They spend, from everything I’ve learned, at most double digit hours on the project when developers will spend hundreds or thousands. It is a highly saturated market and there are only so many roles to pick up. That sucks for up and comers, but it’s the way is. I could see people making a decent living doing this as a gig with a full time job on the side, but for most, I would say this is not that important of a job and if you stake your livelihood on it, you’re just doing life wrong.
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DryvBy
Member
There's isn't any reasoning. We have an entire group of people with parents that never told them how much things cost growing up thinking they know things.
Flutta
Banned
Tell that to world of simps
mortal
Gold Member
The difference here is social media platforms have evolved. Not to mention these platforms can be accessed across all sorts of devices now.
They're designed to keep people on there for as long as people as well.
Also, smartphones with apps, internet access, etc have been around since 2007.
Beyond the incremental changes to performance and specs, the fundamental function of the smartphone has not changed since 2007.
It's not the phone, it's the habitual use of social media that drives and reinforces certain behavior. Whether it's used on a phone, a tablet, a laptop, or a desktop.
People can and are perfectly capable of using their smartphones on a daily basis to get tasks done without feeling pressured to spend more time scrolling and reacting to every incident, trivial thing, or novelty.
As I've already said, I'm grabbing my phone less in general now since I've cut down on social media use. Despite my phone being in my vicinity at all times.
I no longer have any incentive beyond what is a necessity ( checking emails, texting, & calls for work and keeping in touch with family & friends,)
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Mister Wolf
Member
Tell that to world of simps
We live in a gynocentric western society.
Negotiator
Member
I think you're arguing for the sake of arguing...
How many people had smartphones back in 2007 (when the first iPhone was released and Android didn't even exist)?
The PC era was so much better, because you couldn't take it outside with you, therefore social media were less addictive back then. That's a fact.
Even Twitter back in 2009-2012 wasn't a woke hivemind (unlike today). Can you guess why? What changed?
ps: Don't judge by yourself, because most people are like junkies, they're highly addicted to smartphones.
PCs are only being used by geeks/professionals/gamers these days, they were never designed to be as accessible/addictive as smartphones. That's another fact.
Hell, all these constant notifications didn't even exist 15 years ago... the mobile ecosystem invented them.
JackMcGunns
Member
Sounds like they went as high as $15,000 per session, but she probably wanted $25,000 per session x4 sessions. Now the $100k+ residuals makes more sense from a negociating standpoint.
She basically pulled a Rhodey and got Cheatle'd.
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ssringo
Member
Yeah. I bet the opening of Last of Us would be just as emotional with a couple VAs working for $15/hr. Or better yet, silent with dialogue boxes over their heads. Though I suppose they could hope some of the developers took an acting course and could provide the voice work. Voice acting gigs aren't consistent and even if they were they can't be done 8 hours a day, 40 hours a week without destroying the voice and making everyone have vastly shortened careers. They require a higher payout for them to be remotely worth doing.
If you tried paying VAs the same or less than developers (who are getting a full and consistent paycheck since they're actively employed) then anyone with actual talent will spend their time auditioning for voice work that actually pays the bills like TV and movies. If you're tired of Troy Baker being in everything now (figuratively) then it would turn into some acting dropout voicing everything literally. Elder Scrolls 6 starring Joe Schmoe as the voice of everyone!
As hilarious as some older games can be with terrible voice acting, it would not be as funny if everything started sounding that way.
If you want to argue developers should be paid more then right on. Most probably do deserve better pay for what they currently get (assuming the games sell well and the company is reasonably profitable). But to say voice actors don't deserve decent pay as well for their work is asinine.
Investor9872
Member
That's outrageous For perspective, I saw a sign on quite a few McDonalds here in California for hiring STARTING at $17/hour.
Mario sounded like a smoker before Mario 64Explains the Mario movie
Jsisto
Member
That’s not quite what I was implying. They do deserve decent pay, and I consider 4000 for one session incredibly decent. We all know there’s a lot of successful VA out there that take a lot of roles. I’m just speaking to the realities of the market here. Unless you’re incredibly talented, it does not seem to be an industry that is easy to make a living off of. I’m all for arguing for better pay and work conditions, it’s within everyone’s right to do so. But I also don’t think voice actors should make anything close to what Hellena Taylor seems to think she was worth for what constitutes a very small part of one project that others have been working on for years.
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Negotiator
Member
Sooner or later, VA will be made by Artificial Intelligence:
Star Wars | Darth Vader’s Voice Will Be Made By Artificial Intelligence - Play Crazy Game
James Earl Jones is retiring from the role of Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the most feared voi
playcrazygame.com
Sorry to say it, but this isn't a profession that cannot be done by computer chips. It won't even cost $15/hour in the future thanks to Moore's law.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
People are paid what they are worth and can get. Although to me, getting paid a minimum of $250/hr to do voice recordings seems insanely generous.
Just because a job requires someone’s voice and gigs are unreliable to get shouldn’t mean they get paid a ton. Just work at a normal job for the rest of the 11 months they can’t find work. That’s like saying a surgeon should get paid $400,000 per year no matter if they do surgery every day or they live in a small town and do operations only once a month. But hey, SAG get companies to agree to posted rates so can’t do anything about it.
Just because a job requires someone’s voice and gigs are unreliable to get shouldn’t mean they get paid a ton. Just work at a normal job for the rest of the 11 months they can’t find work. That’s like saying a surgeon should get paid $400,000 per year no matter if they do surgery every day or they live in a small town and do operations only once a month. But hey, SAG get companies to agree to posted rates so can’t do anything about it.
DemonGamerTTT
Member
This!
And this Helena person is doing a pretty good job on seeling the idea of AI voices for developers.
That's why that peson didn't got any sympathy from other VA...
Captain Toad
Banned
You're worth what someone is willing to pay. They didn't offer her $15/hr. They offered her around $1000/hr.
She wanted six figures plus residuals. They didn't deem her worth that. It's their right to turn her down as it is her choice to turn them down.
While she wants to believe otherwise, the success of the videogame has very little to do with whether the original voice actress reprises her role or another talented actress takes the job.
If it had ended there, no harm, no foul. But her attempting to leverage the Internet and our current outrage culture to cancel or boycott the game is just sad and pathetic.
Thaedolus
Member
The best would be if they added some kind of scene to explain the change in voice. Or some throw away line like “they went off to the peace corps” or whatever they did with the original Power Rangers.Sounds like they went as high as $15,000 per session, but she probably wanted $25,000 per session x4 sessions. Now the $100k+ residuals makes more sense from a negociating standpoint.
She basically pulled a Rhodey and got Cheatle'd.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Yup. People price themselves out of the market. And the more it happens it just makes companies try to automate stuff as much as possible. No company wants to go through the costs and hassles implanting robotics unless it’s worth it.
Look at all the grocery stores doing automated check lines the past 10 years. Those machines surely cost a lot to install and lease, and there’s got to be some rampant theft here and there, but in the long run it’s still worth it. Lower costs, predictable performance and most important of all - zero attitude, calling in sick, striking, and in this case (as crazy as it seems) someone advocating boycotting their products on Twitter.
Anti-automation people don’t understand it ls not just a cost issue. It’s also an attitude issue bosses don’t want the hassle.
Every boss will tell you the hard part of the job isn’t even doing higher level work or coaching the team to its best. It’s bosses needing to spend time on dumb shit like workers causing trouble or bringing their home life crisis issues to work where the boss has to get involved and smooth things out when in reality these numb nuts should be handling it themselves at home after dinner.
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Shifty1897
Member
The funniest part about this is that when when evidence started mounting that Hellena lied about the pay offer, she immediately went from shouting it from the rooftops to "I just want to move on."
mortal
Gold Member
Huh? You're doing that lol. You made it about smartphones and now you're arguing about woke stuff.
The mobility of the device is not the cause. Having and using a device on its own for other tasks outside social media browsing does not cause most people to become less discerning and more reactionary, giving hot takes.
A smartphone from 2022 serves fundamentally the same function as one from 2007.
It's not the phone, it's the apps on the phone and how they're being used, as well as the habits and behaviors that are reinforced by said use.
Twitter being woke or not woke has nothing to do with what I was arguing about in my initial post.
People who are moderate or on the right can be just as reactionary and jump to conclusions on any given topic without factual information. Ideology is not even relevant here.
Saying fact does not make it a fact, it's just your opinion. It's made even more silly to then claim that "PCs are only being used by geeks/professionals/gamers" What does that even mean?
The aforementioned groups aren't their own segregated demographics with no overlap in device use. Nor does that alone dictate what they can and can't be affected by.
What constitutes professionals is so vastly broad that I don't see the point of even mentioning it. None of that is revenant.
Also, people can and have had social media addiction, gaming addiction, porn addiction, etc even using their PCs as the sole means of access to these things. Again it's not the device.
The wide adoption of mobile devices has been around for decades, longer than social media has. These habits and behaviors were nowhere as pronounced as they are today.
You keep blaming the device but you're just making my point for me.
TheGecko
Banned
Oh you're a victim. It makes sense now. It's always someone else's fault right?
What a loser.
Negotiator
Member
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ssringo
Member
That's what the industry has decided so yes, that's exactly what it means.
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OK? I wasn't even talking about her. Not sure why you're quoting me...
‐----------------
I remember reading about James signing off on that. Kinda wild but probably a fantastic deal for him. I think we're still a ways off from it becoming the prevailing way of doing voice over work but I don't doubt it'll happen eventually.Sooner or later, VA will be made by Artificial Intelligence:
Speech synthesis has made huge strides... with more processing power, you could even sprinkle in some emotion there.Star Wars | Darth Vader’s Voice Will Be Made By Artificial Intelligence - Play Crazy Game
James Earl Jones is retiring from the role of Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean the most feared voi
Sorry to say it, but this isn't a profession that cannot be done by computer chips. It won't even cost $15/hour in the future thanks to Moore's law.
mortal
Gold Member
You have no counterargument, so instead, you link to a Wikipedia article accusing me of what you're doing? Seriously, man?
Have a good one lol
Kazekage1981
Member
she is quite an actress....
Negotiator
Member
I don't like habitual contrarians, that's why you don't see me often on NeoGAF these days.
You agreed that social media are way more accessible these days thanks to mobile devices. Let's leave it at that and don't project on me.
ps: iPhone/smartphone was a wonderful invention, but I'm pretty sure that even Steve Jobs couldn't have predicted the downfall of the (Western) society thanks to this magic all-encompassing device.
Believe it or not, ease of use fuels echo chambers and one of the most prominent ones is the woke culture. Are you woke? If not, why are you offended? You can go back to ERA if you want.
We were better back in the 90s with just PCs and dial-up. No woke outrage culture back then. Leftists were tame for a reason.
It took REAL effort back in the 90s to write/post something on the internet... 4G/5G makes it so much easier. Ease of use is a double-edged sword.
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Portugeezer
Member
DemonGamerTTT
Member
I agree that those people are dumber than a idle rock, but "reverse cancel culture" is way dumber.
Stop prosecuting people for what they say on the internet... for fucks sake.....
mortal
Gold Member
I'm legitimately confused now. I'm being contrarian? I'm projecting? I was arguing against the points you've made the entire time lol
The downfall of society? That's a bit dramatic. I agree this is a wonderful innovation, but like anything else, it's just another tool.
It's ultimately how one makes use of it that will instill destructive habits or productive habits. Some of us will have a harder time than others in achieving latter.
What in the world? Dude, what's with the hostility? I don't understand what politics or woke has to do with this...
You can have the last word, this back & forth has run its course I think.
Portugeezer
Member
supernova8
Banned
Initially I was thinking "Jason Screecher can claim he saw whatever he wants to say he saw, this is all a ruse!" but then I thought:
1) It wouldn't be in his interests to lie and put his career at stake (at least not knowingly, could well be that Platinum fabricated documents but that also seems unlikely since it could open them up to a lawsuit from Taylor - not that she has any money wahey)
2) Taylor's rebuttal was strangely light on concrete points
3) If (as they are claiming) their offer for B3 was much better than what they paid her B2 etc., then yeah I guess she can fuck off.
All in all, we essentially now have two sides of the story but (as of yet) no actual proof that anyone can publicly verify (beyond people claiming they have "seen" stuff). We'd have to see a copy of a proposed contract dated appropriately (and I guess prove that she saw it).
Jason Screecher saying he has seen the above proof does not 100% make it true but it's not looking good for Taylor unless she can come back with something to make her side more credible. Also as someone else said, the fact she suddenly just wants to "move on" doesn't help her case at all.
The cynical side of me would say "Well everyone on REEEEEE is dogpiling her because she's supposedly transphobic, so once Jason Screecher decided to look into this he couldn't possibly come down on the side of Taylor" but then I thought "Nah in that case he would probably just stay out of it".
1) It wouldn't be in his interests to lie and put his career at stake (at least not knowingly, could well be that Platinum fabricated documents but that also seems unlikely since it could open them up to a lawsuit from Taylor - not that she has any money wahey)
2) Taylor's rebuttal was strangely light on concrete points
3) If (as they are claiming) their offer for B3 was much better than what they paid her B2 etc., then yeah I guess she can fuck off.
All in all, we essentially now have two sides of the story but (as of yet) no actual proof that anyone can publicly verify (beyond people claiming they have "seen" stuff). We'd have to see a copy of a proposed contract dated appropriately (and I guess prove that she saw it).
Jason Screecher saying he has seen the above proof does not 100% make it true but it's not looking good for Taylor unless she can come back with something to make her side more credible. Also as someone else said, the fact she suddenly just wants to "move on" doesn't help her case at all.
The cynical side of me would say "Well everyone on REEEEEE is dogpiling her because she's supposedly transphobic, so once Jason Screecher decided to look into this he couldn't possibly come down on the side of Taylor" but then I thought "Nah in that case he would probably just stay out of it".
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Werewolf Jones
Gold Member
I just wanted consistency of voice work and to support her. I never shit on Jen Hale, I never shit on Kamiya. I also don't "listen to podcasts" while playing games first time through cuz I'm not ignorant... Unless it's Ghostwire Tokyo.
Jsisto
Member
At this point honestly I just feel bad for her. I think it was not in her own self interest to go about this the way she did, especially in light of recent news. But it's clear she's not very plugged in to internet culture and the twitter outrage cycle to see how this would clearly turn around on her in no time. I guess she's now being dragged through the mud by the usual cretins for being a terf, transpose, alt right, bigot, religious zealot, etc., etc. Twitter working as intended I guess.
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