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Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Better or worse than their E3 2006 show?
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Hermen Hulst is being raked over the coals by PlayStation fans on Twitter
- Thread starter SlimySnake
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Better or worse than their E3 2006 show?
hemo memo
Gold Member
Guys, please, I have it figured out. In the world, we have three things:
1. State of Play
2. PlayStation Showcase
3. PlayStation Experience
Clearly, with the Showcase we were left without the Experience of a banger show. Instead we got Played
Yes the show had something for everyone in a sense. And most here will agree that it didn't have the mic drop moments everyone was waiting for. But part of me still thinks we're getting an Experience later this year. Or at least a better show. This can't be Sony's presentation for the year, can it
See you in 18 months.
ZehDon
Gold Member
What I see is the legacy titles finished clearing the runway at PlayStation studios and we're now seeing the first buds of Hulst's work under Ryan's GaaS push. Instead of relying on the work of the folks who came before them, I imagine this "Phase 2" is finally all Hulst and Ryan. Not a great start.
With that said, it takes more than one bad show to do damage. If Spider-man 2 lands and it's a step down, and Final Fantasy XVI lands and it's not good enough, then they're in trouble. Two releases every year and CGI trailers means when you do release a game, you have to deliver the absolute top shelf every single time. So far, both games look excellent, even if Spider-man 2 looks a little dated, so I think they'll be fine for the year ahead.
With that said, it takes more than one bad show to do damage. If Spider-man 2 lands and it's a step down, and Final Fantasy XVI lands and it's not good enough, then they're in trouble. Two releases every year and CGI trailers means when you do release a game, you have to deliver the absolute top shelf every single time. So far, both games look excellent, even if Spider-man 2 looks a little dated, so I think they'll be fine for the year ahead.
yurinka
Member
It's a fact that the games shown are part of "what is next for PS5".
And the "breathtaking and imaginative content" is only inofensive and PR bullshit, a subjective comment that could be real for some people with some of the games.
Only crazy people would ask a CEO to be fired or would go to harass their head of studios in Twitter because these sentences. There's nothing wrong with them.
There are way more upcoming non-GaaS SP games not shown in that showcase but already announced or to be announced such as Wolverine, Death Stranding 2, Cory's new IP, GoT2, next's ND SP game, FFVII Rebirth etc. Are you going to dislike them too?
If games like GoWR or HZD weren't great due to Hermen/Jimbo, then the Destiny 2 acquisition and other previous GaaS like Destruction All Stars, MLB or GT7 -so the strategy of starting with GaaS- should be assigned too to the previous bosses? And if you liked them or not should that be aplied to Jimbo/Hermen too?
Spoiler: the PC and GaaS strategies started before Jim/Hermen, and the greenlight of most games released until now were greenlighted before Jim/Hermen. But they tweaked the plans and nurtured the projects until got released. They got insane success with the games, the console and subscription in part because of heritage, in part because of their job doing things like choosing acquisitions and heavily increase growing their existing teams, revamping PS+ or investing more than ever in 2nd party or 3rd party exclusives.
Btw, "phase 2" is something said by one of these fake insiders from twitter. Not by Hermen or Jimbo.
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Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
FFXVI isn't much of a win for Sony considering they just purchased temporary exclusivity rights. It isn't a Sony game and therefore they have zero baring on the quality of the product. It is is great, it is great because of Yoshi P and co. Not because of Sony. If it is bad, it is bad because of Yoshi P and co, not Sony.
ZehDon
Gold Member
FFXVI is their second exclusive for the year. It doesn't matter if they made it or not: they're marketing it like a first party title, and it's filling a slot of their "two releases a year". They want the title associated with PlayStation and paid for that. If it's good, it looks good for PlayStation. If it isn't, then it looks bad for PlayStation. Pros and cons of the exclusivity deal.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Much like Tomb Raider for Xbox One and DeathLoop for PS5 - that doesn't count and only morons would be tricked by thinking it is a Playstation product or associating it with Playstation.
They have been sitting on their ass for years. It has been one non-stop steady decline since 2016 in terms of quality and chasing the almighty short term dollar.
VAVA Mk2
Member
Sadly...I feel the industry in general is going this way....and then TotK came out...
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Not sure what you mean.
AGRacing
Member
That show had a little ambition at least.
Kacho
Member
E3 2006 had style
VAVA Mk2
Member
Tears of the Kingdom...I mean the industry in general has been going after micro transaction broken shit but Nintendo released an awesome single player experience with no online required or bullshit pay to win. I kinda miss that. I miss shooters where you earn and unlock stuff instead of pay for it.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Agreed entirely. id Surprised me with Doom ETernal and DOOM 2016 as well. Just simple FPS games that didn't bloat with needless shit or MTX/Greed. Quality games from start to finish. Sadly these AAA games seem to be growing ever more rare. It is the INdie, A, and AA devs that seem to actualy care about designing good games these days.
Captain Toad
Banned
Actually, Sony devs actually assisted SE with development to help maximize the PS5.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
People bringing Bungie into this, as if their immediate first new game post-acquisition, should be PS exclusive are just being tardcum. Do they not realize how bad that would make Sony look to regulators if they & Bungie reneged on promises they made in part to help get that acquisition approved as quickly as it was?
And if Sony are in fact considering future 3P publisher acquisitions, making the immediate first game from Bungie post-purchase console exclusive when they promised those games would stay multiplat, would make the next big acquisition a nightmare. Just look at the stuff Microsoft's (rightfully) going through for ABK after they promised and then swiftly reneged on certain promises WRT Zenimax.
Do these people want Sony in a similar boat just so they can go through regulatory hell and likely drop pursuit of another big 3P acquisition? I get for those who don't like consolidation on the whole that would be very welcomed; there are also certain Xbox & PCMR fanboys/fangirls who would probably like it if it meant Sony couldn't easily (or at all) go after another publisher. I don't necessarily like mass consolidation either, but I don't want companies to stop due to a reason as astronomically stupid as suddenly making games they literally just promised regulators wouldn't be exclusive, exclusive!
Well, in some of these cases as you just mentioned they shipped games over two years ago. But many of these studios have multiple teams, it's not like they only just begin development on the next game after the current one is finished.
So in those cases I'm actually of the mind we could get at least a reveal trailer for a couple of them at this point, even if the games are another two or so years out. Not asking for anything that won't be due until, say, 2027 or 2028 to get shown this year, that's ridiculous. But games coming 2024, 2025? I don't see why not, even if they are just reveal trailers.
Even one of those for a 1P AAA non live-service/GaaS title in lieu of, say, the Concord trailer, would've done a lot to make the Showcase better, especially if it was a new IP or return to a fan-beloved IP.
And if Sony are in fact considering future 3P publisher acquisitions, making the immediate first game from Bungie post-purchase console exclusive when they promised those games would stay multiplat, would make the next big acquisition a nightmare. Just look at the stuff Microsoft's (rightfully) going through for ABK after they promised and then swiftly reneged on certain promises WRT Zenimax.
Do these people want Sony in a similar boat just so they can go through regulatory hell and likely drop pursuit of another big 3P acquisition? I get for those who don't like consolidation on the whole that would be very welcomed; there are also certain Xbox & PCMR fanboys/fangirls who would probably like it if it meant Sony couldn't easily (or at all) go after another publisher. I don't necessarily like mass consolidation either, but I don't want companies to stop due to a reason as astronomically stupid as suddenly making games they literally just promised regulators wouldn't be exclusive, exclusive!
Well, in some of these cases as you just mentioned they shipped games over two years ago. But many of these studios have multiple teams, it's not like they only just begin development on the next game after the current one is finished.
So in those cases I'm actually of the mind we could get at least a reveal trailer for a couple of them at this point, even if the games are another two or so years out. Not asking for anything that won't be due until, say, 2027 or 2028 to get shown this year, that's ridiculous. But games coming 2024, 2025? I don't see why not, even if they are just reveal trailers.
Even one of those for a 1P AAA non live-service/GaaS title in lieu of, say, the Concord trailer, would've done a lot to make the Showcase better, especially if it was a new IP or return to a fan-beloved IP.
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James Sawyer Ford
Member
FF16 is a permanent console exclusive
And details of the arrangement leaked from court documents, the reason Square signed with Sony was because Sony provided technical engineering talent that benefited the game
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TheThreadsThatBindUs
Member
I didn't personally find the show to be all that objectionable. But it's largely subjective based on whether the games shown appealed to you or not.
So yeah, I do agree people should voice their concerns and criticisms with the perceived direction Sony is moving in with their investments.
While I have far fewer personal issues with Live Service games, in general, myself, I was really fucking disappointed to see that the big Haven, Bungie and Firewalk Live Service games that Sony spent billions acquiring the studios for are ALL PvP focused with no PvE to speak of at all. That's baffling to me. Destiny 2 and Warframe are two of the most prolific Live Service games, and they're primarily SP-focused. I don't why Sony wouldn't want to take advantage of their baked-in SP-loving fanbase to evangelize these new GaaS games. They fucked up on that one.
All that said, FFXVI, Phantom Blade 0, Spiderman 2, Dragon's Dogma 2 and MGS3 remake all look stellar to me. So I was happy with those alone.
So yeah, I do agree people should voice their concerns and criticisms with the perceived direction Sony is moving in with their investments.
While I have far fewer personal issues with Live Service games, in general, myself, I was really fucking disappointed to see that the big Haven, Bungie and Firewalk Live Service games that Sony spent billions acquiring the studios for are ALL PvP focused with no PvE to speak of at all. That's baffling to me. Destiny 2 and Warframe are two of the most prolific Live Service games, and they're primarily SP-focused. I don't why Sony wouldn't want to take advantage of their baked-in SP-loving fanbase to evangelize these new GaaS games. They fucked up on that one.
All that said, FFXVI, Phantom Blade 0, Spiderman 2, Dragon's Dogma 2 and MGS3 remake all look stellar to me. So I was happy with those alone.
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yurinka
Member
There have been a lot of State of Plays and blog posts with tons of game announcements since then.
No, pretty likely they'll need a year or two more. 3 years ago they shipped GoT, months later GT Legends and months later, 2 years ago, the Ikki expansion/PS5 sku/Director's Cut.
Developing their games, which will be shown when ready. Big games take now 5-6+ years of development and Sony doesn't like to show gameplay until pretty close to release.
Bluepoint released GoWR half a year ago.
All factual metrics say the opposite, that they are performing better than ever (with the stok related ones as exception, but are in line to achieve it in a few months) and that are growing more than ever.
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sachos
Member
I've been thinking about this, from their perspective this Showcase trully was a blowout hit, they showed a bunch of those GaaS games they are so proud about. A PS Showcase with only 1 first party single player game and they did not care.
ZehDon
Gold Member
Nothing in your rant has much to do with my post. I'm not even sure why you bothered quoting me when you cut off half my post - the half saying how good Sony's big releases for this year looked - only to ask "are you going to dislike [other titles] too?" when at no point did I say I disliked any of the titles shown. Free advice: turn down the defense force rhetoric or you'll run out of people to discuss with.
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ZehDon
Gold Member
So, let me get this correct: "exclusives don't count" and "only morons would be tricked by thinking PlayStation exclusive games are associated with PlayStation"?
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Maybe Phil Spencer is congratulating him because the showcase has made Xbox looks good
gothmog
Gold Member
Slow down
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
Personally I think the showcase is pretty good, so he really don’t deserves these. Happy that MGS3 is being remake, MGS Master Collection finally exist, and Sony has some new first party games + Helldivers 2 that I might play on PC . Spider-Man is coming out this year and I will be buying to play on my PS5 after God of War Ragnarok.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Hermen allow me to introduce you to this guy,
Would it be too much to ask to see one of them dispense with the professional courtesy and say: "I'm gonna ground you into dust. See you on the battlefield mofo", instead of this fake Kumbaya shit that's been going on for years now.
The Tourmaline Gorilla
Banned
Okay I get it. Even I was disappointed in this showcase and I don't even have a PS5 anymore. But good God people, it's just video games.
What the hell is happening with the world?!?
What the hell is happening with the world?!?
Draxon Gamer
Banned
He responded to Phill, that's all that matters.
Kacho
Member
Xbox only looks good if they show good games with dates in a couple weeks
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
Timed Exclusivity and not made by Playstation. But please, keep trying to push strawman arguments, kiddo.
gothmog
Gold Member
Who knows? They showed a lot of games but basically nothing Sony related other than CGI and SM2. Oh, and they cracked a dual sense in half and stuffed a big phone in between them.I got really busy at work yesterday and have barely been able to catch up. Was it really that bad? Sony Doomed?
yurinka
Member
I did cut to specify the part of your post that I was refering to, but seems that even doing that wasn't clear enough. I suggest you to read my post again, including the part I quoted where you said that the 'phase 2' wasn't a good start due to Jimbo's GaaS push and beeing free of the legacy stuff of the previous bosses.
I just post my opinions and debate, just like you.
With the difference that I don't ask others to stop saying or turn down things I don't like or don't agree. It's ok to disagree in a civil way.
If you think I'm specially annoying you're also free to ignore me. There's even a forum option to do so.
ArtHands
Thinks buying more servers can fix a bad patch
But on Playstation you can play with haptic feedback, adaptive trigger and stuffs. Really amazing features that will sell the games and console
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Does Sony offer technical support to first party studios? Because insomniac sure could use some after showing as a game with barely any improvements over miles.
No tod will hide the difference in level of detail between
this
and this
The difference in textures alone is soo big that you don't have to change the lighting to notice it.
They achieved this nearly 3 years ago...
So how did we get back to here? They no longer believe in subsurface scattering I guess. And did they suddenly forget their eye rendering techniques?
Sorry for spam posting about the same stuff but I'm still in shock.
Spider-Man 2018 In Game Looks Better Than Spider-Man 2 scenes In 2023.
Crazy
This is why ive always hated moneyhats. FF16 was always going to come to PS5. SE could simply not afford to make it an Xbox or PC exclusive. So why bother spending millions on that game instead of giving insmoniac the resources it needs to ensure game looks at least as good as the Matrix. Or ensure ND, SSM, Bend and Sucker Punch have enough bodies to get games out faster than 5-6 years. Maybe stop spending $3.6 billion on wasteful third party multiplatform purchases like Bungie?
Azurro
Banned
Your tweets get more notoriety aside from the other features.
0neAnd0nly
Member
Spidey, AW2, MGS3R and even if it’s not my cup of tea anymore, FFXVI.
That’s more than enough for me
Only 1 of those is first party exclusive though.
Let’s say you are a gamer deciding between consoles this year, what did this showcase do to win you over to PS?
It was a poor “PLAYSTATION” showcase - an average “gaming” showcase.
PlayStation’s entire argument for so long was “we have better exclusives than XBOX” which has been absolutely true. I am a PlayStation fan first and foremost, I am not speaking as an enemy. PlayStation won nearly every e3 battle since 2010. This showcase though? IMO, easy to beat. Not a good showing.
kyliethicc
Member
Proof that God does exist, and Gaf isnt alone in voicing their disapproval despite the favorable metrics on youtube. These are all top replies to his tweets.
A lot more under every tweet hes posted since yesterday. Only Philbo seems to be positive about the event and his job as Head of PS Studios lol.
P.S That tweet about them spending billions on Bungie only to make games for xbox is hilarious given how Hermans job is to make first party games for playstation.
Gojiira
Member
Yeah people forget that PS exclusives for this year alone are pretty stellar. We have Final Fantasy 16, Stellar Blade, Helldivers 2, Spiderman 2, Sword of the Sea and whatever else. Might not all be first party but still a good lineup.
No doubt there will be another show of some description later in the year and first party will finally take the stage.
supernova8
Banned
I think overall, people went into this expecting Sony to finally show what's possible with PS5.
What they can do when they're not constrained by the shackles of last-gen.
"Oh you think God of War Ragnarok looked good? That's not eeeeeeeeeeven a PS5-only title!"
(They didn't say that, I just had it in my head)
Kinda feels like the tacit social contract between Playstation and people who bought into PS5 early was:
"You know we're good for the games, here's Ratchet & Clank and a remake of Demons Souls... and then here's a few great-looking but cross-gen games, in return, will you give us some time build out our PS5-exclusive lineup?"
Judging by sales, the answer was "Sure, Jim/Hermen!"
Question then is how long they expect people to wait before we all start saying "wait where are all the PS5-exclusive games you implied would be coming?
You know. Even if he runs PS studios into the ground and gets fired. He already made so much money, he could spend the rest of his life doing this. The joke is on us.
DrFigs
Member
I respect what you're saying about TOTK. but Sony and Xbox have both been releasing good single player games this gen. If anything, it seems the problem with Sony is that they've only been releasing single player games, with zero microtransactions.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Yeah, he's a very bad man for not magically pulling AAA games from various sources out of his ass on command.
Seriously, the world half shut down for the best part of 2 years, AAA titles run on 4+ year production cycles these days, do the math.
Dr. Claus
Vincit qui se vincit
I can't agree, at least not in relation to AAA first party games. Xbox has been suffering more than Sony in this regard, but every game I was excited for from Sony, like God of War Ragnarok, has been infinitely disappointing and games I wish I could get a refund for.
Sony's issue is definitely not that they haven't been releasing games with Zero MTX> That should be the standard for all games.
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