But is theoretical child abuse real child abuse?
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Italy proposal to jail vegans who impose diet on children
- Thread starter Dalek
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But is theoretical child abuse real child abuse?
Any Questions
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Came to post this
MarkMclovin
Member
You actually think the 'nutrition' you think you're getting from supplements, is even comparable from the real nutrients found in good food?
I personally think this should be applied to parents of children that are obese.
hosannainexcelsis
Member
This proposal sounds like a publicity stunt. If this lawmaker is so convinced that the state is in a better place to decide how to raise children than parents, why not propose taking all children from their parents and placing them in state-run boarding schools?
Harsh. I don't see how this would pass or is even necessary with other child safety laws about nutrition in place. Busting up families seems like unnecessary persecution when what these parents need is better education on the value of nutritional supplements. Put that up as a proposition instead.
Edit: People seem to forget that dietary needs aren't a rigid rule for everyone. The argument to apply this to the parents of obese children is obscene, as many children have medical reasons and dispositions that lead to their obesity. A lot of the same logic can be applied to having a child on a vegan diet. Not all of the time, but that's for the parents and family physicians to decide, not lawmakers.
Edit: People seem to forget that dietary needs aren't a rigid rule for everyone. The argument to apply this to the parents of obese children is obscene, as many children have medical reasons and dispositions that lead to their obesity. A lot of the same logic can be applied to having a child on a vegan diet. Not all of the time, but that's for the parents and family physicians to decide, not lawmakers.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Vegan lifestyle is hard. Its hard for an adult to maintain everything their body needs, when raising a child the vegan parents would have to be dietitians themselves. You would need to count intake of the child, feed it vitamin pills etc.
In a "regular" diet, there is a much slimmer chance of getting your child into some sort of deficit. Feed it a little bit of everything at the child's body will get what it needs.
Like i said imo, I'm biased as one of my friends lived a year as a strict vegan, looked like shit most of the time and felt a lack of energy, he switched to be vegetarian. You could say he ate the wrong stuff, but if he had forced his lifestyle on a child I'm sure it would not have been the wised of ideas.
Look at where vitamin B12 is found, hint its in food a vegan is not going to eat.
frankie_baby
Member
Completely agree with this
I mean, it's not really.
Really?
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us
One of my friends is a strict meat eater, looks shit most of the time and lacks energy. You could say he eats the wrong stuff, but if he forced his lifestyle on a child I'm sure it would not be the wised of ideas etc.
Marmite? An acquired taste, I agree.
Also there are things called "vitamins" these days.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Are we now really going to argue that a vegan lifestyle is as easy as a "regular" one? Like really?
UnemployedVillain
Member
Well the fact that you have to supplement the diet with additional vitamins...
TheSpecialOne
Banned
I'm, I'm okay with this. It's a huge step forward for man kind.
Many vegans in other countries are poorly informed too. We have several cases of hospitalized kids in my country, because the parents do a insufficient (unhealthy) vegan diet. While those hospitalized kids are like the worst case scenario, we don't know how many vegan parents have malnourished kids which barely have enough micronutrients to go day by day.
Yes, there are many good informed vegans, as they often are high educated. But we shouldn't dismiss all the illinformed.
It's Italy, they're already in jail.
Again, we give vitamin D to breastfed infants. It's still better than formula milk. The supplementation itself doesn't mean much in terms of diet quality.
But there are already laws protecting children from abuse and mistreatment.
Targeting vegans specifically is asinine and ignorant.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
You know what...it's hard for children to get the nutrients they need on a vegan diet, it really is. Not impossible, mind you, but imposing a vegetarian diet should really be enough on a growing child. I don't think that is too much to ask.
So not a terrible proposal. You shouldn't do your children harm.
So not a terrible proposal. You shouldn't do your children harm.
Yep, parental negligence is already a thing. This almost reminds me of transgender bathroom laws misdirection.
Zvonimir Boban
Banned
So punish parents if they're not taking care of their children, not parents who want to live in a vegan household.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
Are you still using additional vitamin D, have you taken it for your whole life and will you take it until you die?
Baby's need it because they can't chill in the sun, an adult can. A Vegan will always need additional B12.
I do think there is a difference in the concept of these things.
1.21Gigawatts
Banned
Don't see the connection to veganism here, though.
Harm can be done by all kinds of diets, so why limit this law to bad vegan diets?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
Not sure if it's the case in Italy, but people in some countries actually do take vitamin D supplements their entire life in milk. It's a good idea and prevents rickets.
Murder is already illegal. Why ban guns?
Sanctuary
Member
It's almost as though humans didn't exist for thousands of years prior to eating meat. How ever did we survive?
Triggered! But seriously, that would change so much of the status quo of the planet.
There certainly are. And while some vitamins are better than no vitamins, it's still a lot better to get them through food sources instead of pills.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
It sure is not in Italy, that would be in sun depraved countries.
Look, what i want to get across here, if your base diet at an optimum requires addition supplements, to me thats a sign that there is not much room for error and not a wide margin of "yeah that'll be good enough for my body".
The more strict you have to be with a diet the easier it is to fall in the "yeah that was not enough XYZ for the day"...
Gun Animal
Member
because whereas normally malnutrition usually only occurs because of poverty, there's a pattern of totally preventable malnutrition of children in vegan households. When financially well-off parents are hospitalizing their kids over fad diets that's a problem.
How is a Vegan eating a pill to get their RDA of B12 any more a burden than you eating a steak to get your B12?
I mean, other than your way being massively resource intensive and inefficient?
My favorite fad diets are the ones that date back to ancient Greece.
I'm not necessarily for jail time, but parents getting punished for bad diet should be a thing. I don't know about Italy, but in Switzerland the parents face little to no consequences when their child is hospitalized because of bad vegan diet.
Gotdatmoney
Member
This is a dumb idea that is literally uninforceable. That said, the idea that a vegan diet is not more difficult than a diet where you can eat w/e the fuck you want is crazy to me. Argue it's manageable, but dont argue it isnt more difficult.
I think this is a bit extreme but as a guy who's worked with a lot of struggling children, the ones I've seen who are malnourished are 50/50 from extremely neglectful parents and from vegan homes (once or twice vegatarians but the parents in both cases were neglectful), I don't think prison sentences should be given unless the kids are underfed and not given all essential nutrients, protein and vitamins.
I personally think raising a child vegan or vegatarian is immoral but if you give them everything they need it should be allowed.
I personally think raising a child vegan or vegatarian is immoral but if you give them everything they need it should be allowed.
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
On a regular diet i do not have to care about VB12, on a vegan i do?
Veganism has nothing to do with the proposed law in Italy. If you're Vegan or not, you have to make sure your kid isn't malnourished. Just like you can't feed him mcdonalds and candy every day instead of food, you can't feed him an improper vegan diet. It makes sense there's laws protecting this.
ChronotriggerJM
Member
Yeah that's a bit extreme, it really falls into negligence territory. Many of these parents are unaware of the deficiencies of any particular diet, it's not purposeful.
I agree, that's why I wrote "bad diet" and didn't specify it.
And music.
Do you?
I'd guess the majority of people on a "regular diet" (whatever that is) haven't the foggiest fucking idea what their daily intake of vitamin B12 is or whether it is enough.
I know what mine is.
Gun Animal
Member
wait till you hear how old paleo is
bahamut zero
Member
But how do we jail vegans that don't have children? :/
sankt-Antonio
:^)--?-<
The thing is, i don't have to track it to be on the save side, you do (i take it you are a vegan).
edit:
Before you ask, i never tracked it in the last 32 years.
Apparently I'm healthy as can be, given what can be said about the contents of my blood/piss etc.
Any fad diet that puts children in the hospital because you aren't feeding them properly should have punishment. I'm not sure jail time taking the parents away is best for the kids, but these idiot parents need to be punished for starving their kids because they don't actually know how to a eat balanced vegan diet.
People saying "wish this was for religion" and meaning it, fucking abysmal intolerance.
Atheism is a belief system too. If you teach your children that it's exactly the same as teaching them a religion.
Feeding your children a Vegan diet is absolutely fine. As long as you feed them properly. Parents failing this would no doubt fail anyway, it isn't difficult to do so they're clearly just not fit to feed their children regardless.
You have to care about all the essential vitamins and nutrients. Eating a meat based diet doesn't mean - in any way - that you're more likely to get everything you need in the right quantities.
Atheism is a belief system too. If you teach your children that it's exactly the same as teaching them a religion.
Feeding your children a Vegan diet is absolutely fine. As long as you feed them properly. Parents failing this would no doubt fail anyway, it isn't difficult to do so they're clearly just not fit to feed their children regardless.
You have to care about all the essential vitamins and nutrients. Eating a meat based diet doesn't mean - in any way - that you're more likely to get everything you need in the right quantities.
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