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Mass Assaults over NYE Renew German Tensions Over Migrants

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http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...-cologne-germany-renew-tensions-over-migrants

NPR said:
German police are investigating reports of dozens of sexual assaults and muggings that occurred outside Cologne's famous cathedral during a raucous celebration on New Year's Eve.

Cologne Police Chief Wolfgang Albers told a news conference Tuesday afternoon the unidentified attackers were among a crowd of about 1,000 men, ages 18 to 35, many of them drunk and shooting fireworks.


What's especially causing a stir in Germany is how Albers describes the suspects. He says they look "Arab or North African." Similar attacks on New Year's Eve are being investigated in Hamburg and Stuttgart, and Albers says police are looking into whether the attacks and muggings were coordinated.

His police department is under fire for failing to prevent the Cologne attacks, especially since criminal gangs who'd been pickpocketing and mugging people in the square near the cathedral were already under surveillance.

Albers says his officers didn't learn about the sexual assaults until the next day.

One victim who spoke with German channel n-tv accused police of keeping her and several female friends, who were also attacked, from seeking refuge inside the nearby main train station.

The victim, who the TV channel identified only by her first name, Michelle, said police didn't take her sexual assault claim seriously for several days and at first, would only file a report about her cell phone being stolen.

"We ran but we couldn't do anything," she said of the attack, which she said was carried out by between 10 and 30 people. "They attacked us from all sides and touched us everywhere, between our legs ... and under our jackets. They tried to separate us."

Albers says police have not yet identified any suspects, but added that migrants who commit serious crimes they should be deported. That demand was echoed by members of the Bavarian CSU party in Germany's ruling coalition.

But Cologne Mayor Henriette Reker, an independent, warned against drawing hasty conclusions about who the perpetrators are.

"It's absolutely improper for us or for people who are judging this objectively to immediately link a group that appears to come from North Africa with refugees," said Reker, a pro-refugee politician who survived an assassination attempt last year by a man with anti-immigrant beliefs.

Reker said her administration and city police are taking steps to ensure assaults like those on New Year's Eve don't happen again. The measures will include a stepped-up police presence and video surveillance during next month's pre-Lenten celebration of Carnival, which attracts large numbers of revelers.

Cologne Refugee Council director Claus-Ulrich Proelss tells NPR he worries that the way police are handling this case will lead to a backlash against refugees across Germany.

Alluding to the perpetrators as migrants is wrong, Proelss says, given that they could have just as easily been German citizens of North African descent or children of guest workers. He called for police to solve the crimes as quickly as possible.

So did German Chancellor Angela Merkel. In a statement, her office called for the attackers to swiftly be brought to justice — regardless of their origin or background.

This is a weird story. Reports from other sources make connections between the attackers and refugees. But I don't understand why refugees who are trying to scrape together their lives would sexually assault natives. I have trouble believing this and I'm waiting for more updates.

Anyway, it's a disgusting thing to happen anywhere, and especially shocking in a relatively low crime and civil country like Germany.
 

Jb

Member
Reports say they were young and drunk, so it's not that weird, refugees or not.
What's odd to me is how the police didn't manage to secure the place.
 

Dennis

Banned
Reports say they were young and drunk, so it's not that weird, refugees or not.
I don't know, seems pretty weird to me if it really turns out to be refugees.

I can't imagine fleeing from war and terror only to start sexually assaulting people in the country that has graciously agreed to take me in.

Makes no sense to me if it really turns out to be refugees.
 

entremet

Member
http://www.npr.org/sections/paralle...-cologne-germany-renew-tensions-over-migrants



This is a weird story. Reports from other sources make connections between the attackers and refugees. But I don't understand why refugees who are trying to scrape together their lives would sexually assault natives. I have trouble believing this and I'm waiting for more updates.

Anyway, it's a disgusting thing to happen anywhere, and especially shocking in a relatively low crime and civil country like Germany.

Why would you have trouble believing it?

Some of the poorest places in the world are horrible places for women in terms of sexual and physical dangers. Poverty doesn't equal morality.

No idea about this story, as it's still under investigation, but I don't see why that would be unheard of.
 

Jintor

Member
I can't imagine fleeing from war and terror only to start sexually assaulting people in the country that has graciously agreed to take me in.

I can see it... alcohol, party atmosphere, difference in attitudes towards women in different cultures... but at the same time, without evidence, speculation is just that.
 

Dennis

Banned
I can see it... alcohol, party atmosphere, difference in attitudes towards women in different cultures... but at the same time, without evidence, speculation is just that.

No it is madness. I would be terrified of being thrown out of a country I had fled to to escape war and terror.
 

Jb

Member
I don't know, seems pretty weird to me if it really turns out to be refugees.

I can't imagine fleeing from war and terror only to start sexually assaulting people in the country that has graciously agreed to take me in.

Me neither, but then again in a population of tens of thousands of refugees the idea that some of the younger, less stable ones group up at some point, get drunk and do something really stupid doesn't seem that statistically improbable. You can't expect all of them to be grateful Saints, which obviously isn't a reason to stop welcoming them.

Where do you live that it's not considered weird to have 1000 people organize to commit sexual assault?

I wasn't referring to this particular incident, rather to the possibility of some refugees doing something dumb at some point.
 
Oh man people were mugged and assaulted.. Find the culprits bring them to justice. This is no terrorism just plain crime. No reason to start propaganda against people that lost everything due to war.
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panoram...n-eine-armlaenge-distanz-halten-aid-1.5669639

From what I gather, Cologne's mayor is suggesting updating some kind of 'code of conducts' for women/girls to follow during future events to prevent this from happening again. It sounds like one part "be safe" and two parts "blame the victim".

Well that mayor gets my respect. She is just recovering from a knife attack from a neonazi a few weeks ago. However that kind of advice is just plain bullshit.
 

Espada

Member
Battersea Power Station said:
This is a weird story. Reports from other sources make connections between the attackers and refugees. But I don't understand why refugees who are trying to scrape together their lives would sexually assault natives. I have trouble believing this and I'm waiting for more updates.

Anyway, it's a disgusting thing to happen anywhere, and especially shocking in a relatively low crime and civil country like Germany.

It's not hard to understand at all. These roving gangs of men don't respect women or the laws of land. That they were apparently drunk only made matters worse for the women celebrating on NYE.

Ugh, if they do find that it was refugees behind this it's only going to be used by right wing groups to further their agenda.
 

kirblar

Member
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panoram...n-eine-armlaenge-distanz-halten-aid-1.5669639

From what I gather, Cologne's mayor is suggesting updating some kind of 'code of conducts' for women/girls to follow during future events to prevent this from happening again. It sounds like one part "be safe" and two parts "blame the victim".
This sounds like the situation in the UK, where the police response to these type of systemic issues in ethnic enclaves is essentially "It's Chinatown."
 
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panoram...n-eine-armlaenge-distanz-halten-aid-1.5669639

From what I gather, Cologne's mayor is suggesting updating some kind of 'code of conducts' for women/girls to follow during future events to prevent this from happening again. It sounds like one part "be safe" and two parts "blame the victim".

"Also there should be codes of conduct for carnival "from other cultures", "so as not to confuse here, what a cheerful behavior is in Cologne and has what with openness, particularly sexual openness has nothing to do".


It's a shame these migrants have to be taught to not sexually assault people.
 
aren't most refugees confined to shelters for a while being vetted?
what's the process like?

What? Do you think germans would dare to confine people in mass shelters... Oh wait..
It's not hard to understand at all. These roving gangs of men don't respect women or the laws of land. That they were apparently drunk only made matters worse for the women celebrating on NYE.

Ugh, if they do find that it was refugees behind this it's only going to be used by right wing groups to further their agenda.

Sorry but that logic is flawed. A few men have misbehaved and should pay for their crimes. However there were hundreds of thousands of refugees that entered germany last year. Di you really think that the crime of a few should he projected on all those people that came?
 

Kinyou

Member
http://www.rp-online.de/nrw/panoram...n-eine-armlaenge-distanz-halten-aid-1.5669639

From what I gather, Cologne's mayor is suggesting updating some kind of 'code of conducts' for women/girls to follow during future events to prevent this from happening again. It sounds like one part "be safe" and two parts "blame the victim".
It basically sounds to me like "We don't have this under control, take care of yourselves" Not really the kind of message you'd want to hear from a mayor
 
Canada has the right idea in only receiving women, children and families, You cant do a background check on all the people coming in after all.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
But I don't understand why refugees who are trying to scrape together their lives would sexually assault natives. I have trouble believing this and I'm waiting for more updates.

Anyway, it's a disgusting thing to happen anywhere, and especially shocking in a relatively low crime and civil country like Germany.

I
I can't imagine fleeing from war and terror only to start sexually assaulting people in the country that has graciously agreed to take me in.

Makes no sense to me if it really turns out to be refugees.

I dunno about assaulting German natives, but there have been reports of women feeling unsafe and sexual assault within the camps themselves.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/09/29/women-german-refugee-camps-safety_n_8215724.html

Marija is terrified every day, particularly at night. No, she is not afraid of being named an "economic refugee" and deported; she is afraid of the "strange men" roaming around in the building.

"I barely sleep at night," she said. "Strange men constantly come in and stare at me." She never changes into her pajamas, instead sleeping in her regular clothes. This makes her feel safer.

The experience of this 24-year-old is not an exception. Female refugees have reported instances of physical violence, racism, verbal abuse and sexual assault in their shelters.

"We have many credible accounts of sexual violence and abuse, both by victims as well as counseling services and aid agencies," said Barbara Helfrich, press officer at JOINT Hessen, a German welfare organization. Accurate statistics on the number of sexual assault cases in refugee camps do not yet exist.
 

Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
It basically sounds to me like "We don't have this under control, take care of yourselves" Not really the kind of message you'd want to hear from a mayor

Well, if you read the article there's much more the mayor's plan - including increased surveillance, police presence, and something about a "code of conduct" for "other cultures".
 

knkng

Member
Well people from the right are calling for mass concentration camps for refugees already.. Germany is gojng straight back to the 1930s these days.

I, uh... how the fuck do I even...

I'll just say that this is not comparable to the actions of the Third Reich and leave it at that. :)
 

Mrmartel

Banned
http://www.thelocal.de/20160104/refugees-blamed-for-mass-sexual-assault-in-cologne

There was a very large number of sexual assaults there - and in a massive way. Women were grabbed and attacked,” said Albers, adding that in one case the alleged crime fitted the legal definition of rape.



But the police have also insisted that many of the men had been known to them for some time and that they were not a group of newly-arrived refugees.

A group of around 500 men between the ages of 15 and 35 assembled at the central train station and in the area of the cathedral before throwing firecrackers into the masses of people celebrating the arrival of the new year.

This appears to have been a means of causing distraction, as during the disturbance “The crimes were committed by a group of people who from appearance were largely from the north African or Arab world,” the police chief added.groups of young men entered the crowd where they sexually assaulted women and pick-pocketed revellers.

Police then carried out a large-scale operation to clear the area of the miscreants, involving 143 local police officers and a further 70 federal officers. But due to the darkness and the sheer scale of people, Albers conceded that this operation was less than effective.

On Sunday police arrested five men at the central station who were accused of threatening and robbing female travellers. It is not yet clear whether these men are connected to the earlier crimes.

Cologne mayor Henriette Reker called for a crisis meeting to be held on Tuesday in the wake of the attacks, reports the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung.

“We can’t let it happen that an area beyond the law develops here,” she said.

Accusations of cover-up

As the extent of the crimes emerged on Monday, the story became the central theme of Twitter with #Köln and #aufschrei (outcry) both ranking in the top five hashtags.

Many people accused the national media of engaging in a cover-up due to the ethnic background of the criminals, with many pointing to the fact that it took days before the details of the story reached national attention.

One commentator wrote sarcastically that “it is fascinating that the event in Cologne on New Year made it through the media censorship.

A personal antidote of mine, and I was told this before the holidays. But a close friend of mine from the city has told me that the main square in Cologne (beside the Cologne cathedral, central station) has become a massive loitering spot for migrants. On most weekends the square is full. Most are just hanging out, but a good number are involved in street level crimes. Cologne has had over 20,000 of the million migrants that have entered Germany this year. My buddy thinks over 75 % of them are male (Which would equal the UNs estimates). This could be a clear case of too soon, too many, not enough jobs, dissatisfaction, failed integration (a year isn't long to integrate anybody anyways) old world patriarchal views and middle eastern sexism combined into one.

One of the parts I bolded is becoming increasing common in Europe, at least when the migrants/immigrant issue is concerned. There is extreme distrust of the media after the Rotherham issue in England and the perceived rape epidemic in Sweden. It probably goes even further back then that. The cognitive dissonance between the media and ordinary people grows everyday. If the media begins to be distrusted by a majority of Europeans, I could see more countries (that have right wing governments) institute policies like Poland has done recently, that lets the government have more control of the nations media outlets.
 

Keri

Member
No it is madness. I would be terrified of being thrown out of a country I had fled to to escape war and terror.

You're assuming they understand that sexual assault is illegal and threatens their residency. Unfortunately, there are cultures that exist in the world where women are not respected and assault against them (especially women celebrating, drinking or dressed in ways considered unconservative) would go entirely unpunished.
 
http://www.thelocal.de/20160104/refugees-blamed-for-mass-sexual-assault-in-cologne



A personal antidote of mine, and I was told this before the holidays. But a close friend of mine from the city has told me that the main square in Cologne (beside the Cologne cathedral, central station) has become a massive loitering spot for migrants. On most weekends the square is full. Most are just hanging out, but a good number are involved in street level crimes. Cologne has had over 20,000 of the million migrants that have entered Germany this year. My buddy thinks over 75 % of them are male (Which would equal the UNs estimates). This could be a clear case of too soon, too many, not enough jobs, dissatisfaction, failed integration (a year isn't long to integrate anybody anyways) old world patriarchal views and middle eastern sexism combined into one.

One of the parts I bolded is becoming increasing common in Europe, at least when the migrants/immigrant issue is concerned. There is extreme distrust of the media after the Rotherham issue in England and the perceived rape epidemic in Sweden. It probably goes even further back then that. The cognitive dissonance between the media and ordinary people grows everyday. If the media begins to be distrusted by a majority of Europeans, I could see more countries (that have right wing governments) institute policies like Poland has done recently, that lets the government have more control of the nations media outlets.

Yeah, liberals going full stupid is what pushes people into right extremism , I wonder if the media covering up this kind of cases realizes that what they are doing is counter-productive.
 
You're assuming they understand that sexual assault is illegal and threatens their residency. Unfortunately, there are cultures that exist in the world where women are not respected and assault against them (especially women celebrating, drinking or dressed in ways considered unconservative) would go entirely unpunished.

Yeah but not in germany. There are laws that apply and if they are not obeyed you get prosecuted and punished. Looks like there were a lot of cameras in the station anyways and if those were refugees living in camps it will be fairly easy to identify them. Culture gets respected in germany but its not above the law and certainly not above rights of other people.
 

kirblar

Member
http://www.thelocal.de/20160104/refugees-blamed-for-mass-sexual-assault-in-cologne

A personal antidote of mine, and I was told this before the holidays. But a close friend of mine from the city has told me that the main square in Cologne (beside the Cologne cathedral, central station) has become a massive loitering spot for migrants. On most weekends the square is full. Most are just hanging out, but a good number are involved in street level crimes. Cologne has had over 20,000 of the million migrants that have entered Germany this year. My buddy thinks over 75 % of them are male (Which would equal the UNs estimates). This could be a clear case of too soon, too many, not enough jobs, dissatisfaction, failed integration (a year isn't long to integrate anybody anyways) old world patriarchal views and middle eastern sexism combined into one.

One of the parts I bolded is becoming increasing common in Europe, at least when the migrants/immigrant issue is concerned. There is extreme distrust of the media after the Rotherham issue in England and the perceived rape epidemic in Sweden. It probably goes even further back then that. The cognitive dissonance between the media and ordinary people grows everyday. If the media begins to be distrusted by a majority of Europeans, I could see more countries (that have right wing governments) institute policies like Poland has done recently, that lets the government have more control of the nations media outlets.
The pattern of non-integration we keep seeing described in European countries is very unlike what we have in the US/Canada, and I think it's definitely something that's incredibly important to understand contextually in order to understand the right-wing push in the EU in general on this issue.
 

Jb

Member
Well people from the right are calling for mass concentration camps for refugees already.. Germany is gojng straight back to the 1930s these days.

Gotta love how so many people's only reference point on Germany's political history is the Nazi era. Way to ignore the 60 years of stability and resistance to the populist right when the at the same time the Le Pen dynasty kept getting stronger just West of the border.
 

KDR_11k

Member
Didn't the police state that this was a gang of organized criminals that used sexual assault to mug people? Not a bunch of drunkards. (never mind that Muslims aren't allowed to get drunk anyway so if they're immigrants they're probably sober)

As for the "censorship" accusations, the explanation for that is that it took several days for the victims to file reports with the police. And of course the police didn't do a big conference until Monday. People latch onto a narrative of media censorship to boost their prejudices.
 
Gotta love how so many people's only reference point on Germany's political history is the Nazi era. Way to ignore the 60 years of stability and resistance to the populist right when the at the same time the Le Pen dynasty kept getting stronger just West of the border.

Well LePen has not killed millions of jews and started a world war has he?
 

kirblar

Member
Yeah but not in germany. There are laws that apply and if they are not obeyed you get prosecuted and punished. Looks like there were a lot of cameras in the station anyways and if those were refugees living in camps it will be fairly easy to identify them. Culture gets respected in germany but its not above the law and certainly not above rights of other people.
Policing large cultural enclaves that are relatively cloistered off is a difficult task no matter what country is attempting to do it or which culture is involved.
 

Mrmartel

Banned
Didn't the police state that this was a gang of organized criminals that used sexual assault to mug people? Not a bunch of drunkards. (never mind that Muslims aren't allowed to get drunk anyway)

I think this is what typically occurs, but on NYE it became a free for all with many hundreds of migrants joining in. Probably why locals authorities are so shocked and haven't seen anything like this before.
 
Policing large cultural enclaves that are relatively cloistered off is a difficult task no matter what country is attempting to do it or which culture is involved.

Maybe prevention is harder but prosecution is the same thing. Gather evidence, get the culprit a fair trial and depending on the sentence the punishment. It doesnt matter if you are muslim or not.
 

kirblar

Member
Maybe prevention is harder but prosecution is the same thing. Gather evidence, get the culprit a fair trial and depending on the sentence the punishment. It doesnt matter if you are muslim or not.
It's not. Not when there's animosity on both sides, a language barrier, internal pressure not to give up people within the gorup, etc.

This isn't a new problem, it's just a new manifestation of it.
 
It's not. Not when there's animosity on both sides, a language barrier, internal pressure not to give up people within the gorup, etc.

This isn't a new problem, it's just a new manifestation of it.

People were on camera doing this. Sure its a big crowd but identification of a few should be possible. I dont think that the crimes are anything that will get them to jail though (maybe low sentences for the stealing)
 

norm9

Member
Definitely strange it took a week for this to hit the papers.

And good for the Mayor to explain that assault is bad and you shouldn't do it, and if you're a victim, it was probably your fault.
 

Mrmartel

Banned
http://www.dw.com/en/twitter-storm-...stay-at-arms-length-from-strangers/a-18962430

From Cologne Mayor, Henriette Reker,

'Code of conduct'

With this in mind, Reker proposed a "code of conduct" for young women and girls, "so that such things do not happen to them." An updated version of the current code will soon be available online, the mayor said.

Among the guidelines was the suggestion to maintain an arm's length distance from strangers, something which was met with a huge backlash of sarcastic criticism on Twitter, mocking Reker and the code of conduct.

By late evening on Tuesday, #einarmlänge - which translates as "an arm's length" - was one of Germany's top-trending hashtags.

One Twitter user @Nurit77Sara wrote: "I demand that a women's bus is available from tomorrow. Otherwise I won't be able to carry out #einarmlänge."

Another, Birgit Haase, tweeted: "I have short arms. Will that be a problem for me then in the worst case scenario?"

Other recommendations for women and girls attending large public events included staying within their own group.
Sometimes I think these left wing politicians loved the 1950s (or 7th century), the difference? it isn't the Western 1950s they had in mind.
 
Why is this a left wing, right wing issue for you? Not everything has to be filtered through this stupid us versus them prism. I really don't curse on this forum. I'm sarcastic very often -- more than I should be -- and sometimes sardonic, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

However, it's fucking not "understandable" that dozens if not hundreds of people committed sexual assault on anyone, let alone innocent victims with minimal protection. It doesn't matter how poor you are. It's something that has to be prevented. Does that mean that refugees are bad? Does it mean that arabs are lesser? Does it mean mass deportation? No. But measures can and should be taken, whether it's something simple like increased security, or if the assailants really are refugees (has this been confirmed?) then maybe a stricter education procedure for entrance into the country. It's worth whatever money that can cost.

Can we just discuss this like adults without stupid Trump references and pre-emptive claims of political bias? Disgusting.
 

Cerium

Member
Why is this a left wing, right wing issue for you? Not everything has to be filtered through this stupid us versus them prism. I really don't curse on this forum. I'm sarcastic very often -- more than I should be -- and sometimes sardonic, but that's about as far as it goes for me.

However, it's fucking not "understandable" that dozens if not hundreds of people committed sexual assault on anyone, let alone innocent victims with minimal protection. It doesn't matter how poor you are. It's something that has to be prevented. Does that mean that refugees are bad? Does it mean that arabs are lesser? Does it mean mass deportation? No. But measures can and should be taken, whether it's something simple like increased security, or if the assailants really are refugees (has this been confirmed?) then maybe a stricter education procedure for entrance into the country. It's worth whatever money that can cost.

Can we just discuss this like adults without stupid Trump references and pre-emptive claims of political bias? Disgusting.

I think you're reading too much into some things.
 
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