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Media Create Sales: Week 11, 2017 (Mar 13 - Mar 19)

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
For MHXX signs, from forecast to release date, were pointing to a simultaneous 3DS/Switch release.

Capcom expecting the G version of X to sell as a mainline entry only on 3DS, having turned Monster Hunter into annual release series, has no one to blame expect their usual, out of touch with reality, forecasts.

If they try to give a "HD" version later in the year the only thing that will do is damage future sales of the brand with the milking they do.
 

wrowa

Member
If they try to give a "HD" version later in the year the only thing that will do is damage future sales of the brand with the milking they do.

Yeah, if fans are getting tired of full-priced G re-releases, then I don't see how a third version of MHX works in Capcom's favor.
 
The argument that Capcom should release a separate HD version of XX later on as it would make them more money was always flawed. Of course it would make them more money in the short term, but fans don't like being taken for granted. If they're gonna wait till Fall to put MH on Switch, they should make a different game.
 

LordKano

Member
The argument that Capcom should release a separate HD version of XX later on as it would make them more money was always flawed. Of course it would make them more money in the short term, but fans don't like being taken for granted. If they're gonna wait till Fall to put MH on Switch, they should make a different game.

You're assuming Capcom gives a shit about their fans.
 
You're assuming Capcom gives a shit about their fans.

I'm hoping they do but after missing such a golden opportunity, not much would surprise me on that front. It'd obviously be too early for a big new MH, but who knows, maybe there's a PS4 MH ready for this year that they could port to the Switch or something. They missed the boat on releasing an XX HD. It will sell well if they make it but people will get tired.

They also missed the boat on making Monster Hunter Stories HD as being a launch title could have helped getting the game in a lot more hands, and it wouldn't have felt like milking.
 
For MHXX signs, from forecast to release date, were pointing to a simultaneous 3DS/Switch release.

Capcom expecting the G version of X to sell as a mainline entry only on 3DS, having turned Monster Hunter into annual release series, has no one to blame expect their usual, out of touch with reality, forecasts.

If they try to give a "HD" version later in the year the only thing that will do is damage future sales of the brand with the milking they do.

I'm pretty sure they won't make a Switch ver. of MHXX and reserving Switch's MH debut for a ground up game. The evidence suggests that the rumor from a while ago isn't that far from the truth.
 
What 'evidence' ? Did I miss something ?

It's already been brought up in this thread, but Capcom saying that they think there's potential growth on home consoles in the west tells me that the rumour suggesting there'll be a MH game for consoles and then a more 'traditional' series continued on Nintendo platforms/portables doesn't sound too crazy. I'd bet money on it ending up being the case in fact.
 

LordKano

Member
It's already been brought up in this thread, but Capcom saying that they think there's potential growth on home consoles in the west tells me that the rumour suggesting there'll be a MH game for consoles and then a more 'traditional' series continued on Nintendo platforms/portables doesn't sound too crazy. I'd bet money on it ending up being the case in fact.

Ah. I think expecting Capcom to split Monster Hunter again in two parts when it's suffering a decline is batshit insane but that's only my opinion.

MonHun coming to consoles probably just mean the Switch. And maybe PS4 too.
 
Ah. I think expecting Capcom to split Monster Hunter again in two parts when it's suffering a decline is batshit insane but that's only my opinion.

MonHun coming to consoles probably just mean the Switch. And maybe PS4 too.

They wouldn't be splitting it into two parts. They'd just be creating a new branch of the franchise like Stories and Frontier.
 

LordKano

Member
They wouldn't be splitting it into two parts. They'd just be creating a new branch of the franchise like Stories and Frontier.

So you mean that MonHun 5 and MonHun Portable on Switch wouldn't be the same kind of games ? 'cause Stories and Frontier (and Diary Poka Poka) are pretty different from mainline serie, and that's why they're a separate branch.
 
Pokemon XY VS SunMoon (same pace at the moment)
pkmweek_zpsgg6uq4kb.jpg
So what'll be the excuse this time, with Sun/Moon in Japan selling about the same, or worse than XY?

inb4stars
 

Gitaroo

Member
No suprise capcom is looking to make MH as successful as JP in the west, the series has reach the saturation point in JP.
 
So you mean that MonHun 5 and MonHun Portable on Switch wouldn't be the same kind of games ? 'cause Stories and Frontier (and Diary Poka Poka) are pretty different from mainline serie, and that's why they're a separate branch.

I'm saying they'd be different enough that it justified having two separate series, just like Stories and Frontier, correct.

No suprise capcom is looking to make MH as successful as JP in the west, the series has reach the saturation point in JP.

Exactly, and the current formula + Switch is not the answer to doing that. A new branch of the franchise that panders more towards western console audiences as well as continuing the lower risk traditional series on the Switch to satiate Japan begins to make a little more sense when you consider this.
 

LordKano

Member
I'm saying they'd be different enough that it justified having two separate series, just like Stories and Frontier, correct.



Exactly, and the current formula + Switch is not the answer to doing that. A new branch of the franchise that panders more towards western console audiences as well as continuing the lower risk traditional series on the Switch to satiate Japan begins to make a little more sense when you consider this.

I wonder how they could differentiate the two series enough. It's not like the power gap between Switch and PS4 is big enough for the game to be completely different solely due to the graphics (like it was for portable & mainline games).
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
I completely concede I may be missing something, but how does Switch/PS4 not make sense? You have the portable for Japan. You have a great userbase for the West. You (presumably) finally have updated models and graphics that could appeal more to the West. Presumably less risky to finally advance from PSP era model with 2 platforms.
 
J

Jpop

Unconfirmed Member
I'm saying they'd be different enough that it justified having two separate series, just like Stories and Frontier, correct.

That isn't happening. They purposely merged the two branching series MH Mainline and MH Portable.

Why would they yet again separate them?

The Switch makes it even less likely to re-split the games as it provides a console/handheld experience.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
I completely concede I may be missing something, but how does Switch/PS4 not make sense? You have the portable for Japan. You have a great userbase for the West. You (presumably) finally have updated models and graphics that could appeal more to the West. Presumably less risky to finally advance from PSP era model with 2 platforms.

I doubt graphics is what keeps MH low at west. PS2, PSP and Wii versions were acceptable at the time.
 
I completely concede I may be missing something, but how does Switch/PS4 not make sense? You have the portable for Japan. You have a great userbase for the West. You (presumably) finally have updated models and graphics that could appeal more to the West. Presumably less risky to finally advance from PSP era model with 2 platforms.

If you're referring to Monster Hunter, they're probably talking about not wanting to split the userbase because online is so important to the franchise.

Cross play is unlikely because there is always 1 platform holder that feels like they are in a position of strength and dont want it to benefit their direct competition.
 
That isn't happening. They purposely merged the two branching series MH Mainline and MH Portable.

Why would they yet again separate them?

The Switch makes it even less likely to re-split the games as it provides a console/handheld experience.

Because Monster Hunter in it's current form has next to no growth potential anymore. Sticking a Monster Hunter game on PS4/Switch and calling it a day isn't going to secure the growth in the West that Capcom is clearly after.

Changing up the formula and releasing it on consoles is the only option that makes sense. It's riskier, but could secure them the growth they want. However, completely dropping the old, portable friendly formula completely would be boneheaded. Continuing said traditional franchise on Switch, with it's portable form factor would work a nice fail safe. Essentially, having two separate strands of the mainline franchise allows them to experiment while also keeping their domestic base happy as well.

If it fails, it fails, but I'm inclined to say that rumour, as sensationalist as it was, had a thin veil of truth in it.
 

LordKano

Member
Because Monster Hunter in it's current form has next to no growth potential anymore. Sticking a Monster Hunter game on PS4/Switch and calling it a day isn't going to secure the growth in the West that Capcom is clearly after.

Changing up the formula and releasing it on consoles is the only option that makes sense. It's riskier, but could secure them the growth they want. However, completely dropping the old, portable friendly formula completely would be boneheaded. Continuing said traditional franchise on Switch, with it's portable form factor would work a nice fail safe.

You're implying that MonHun can't grow more in the west with its current form. As Capcom said, it's limited to the weak 3DS userbase in the west, compared to home consoles. But they said nothing concerning the formula in itself, and I don't think it needs to be "westernized" to succeed. If anything, Capcom tend to distance themselves from western influence these last few years, as they said themselves recently when talking about Dontnot.
 

Chris1964

Sales-Age Genius
If Capcom can't afford to make a proper RE with big budget and prefer lower sales hunting other genres, making 2 different MH, one for Switch and one for PS4, increasing the budget exponentially, is less possible.
 
You're implying that MonHun can't grow more in the west with its current form. As Capcom said, it's limited to the weak 3DS userbase in the west, compared to home consoles. But they said nothing concerning the formula in itself, and I don't think it needs to be "westernized" to succeed. If anything, Capcom tend to distance themselves from western influence these last few years, as they said themselves recently when talking about Dontnot.

I don't think they'd 'westernise' it, whatever that term even means now (I think it's outdated).

If Capcom can't afford to make a proper RE with big budget and prefer lower sales hunting other genres, making 2 different MH, one for Switch and one for PS4, increasing the budget exponentially, is less possible.

Less possible, but possible.
 
If the new Monster Hunter runs on Capcom's new standard engine there is no argument left why Capcom wouldn't just handle MH as multiplatform title in the future.
 

Shengar

Member
If they try to give a "HD" version later in the year the only thing that will do is damage future sales of the brand with the milking they do.
I think the majority of MH player base in Japan already expecting Switch version of MHXX and then skip the 3DS version altogether. It seems only the most ardent players that buy the game on 3DS anyway, and as long as MHXX Switch later enables you to import save, there wouldn't be too much damage.

However they can't use the same strategy on the West.Trying to release MHXX 3DS on the West will do much more damage than it did on Japan considering people have expecting Switch version and waiting for localization of the game.
Exactly, and the current formula + Switch is not the answer to doing that. A new branch of the franchise that panders more towards western console audiences as well as continuing the lower risk traditional series on the Switch to satiate Japan begins to make a little more sense when you consider this.
The game already sold 1 million on portable alone with that formula. Capcom have measured that it was not the formula, but handheld lack of popularity on the West especially from the perspective of "serious" gaming (MH4U lost to Tomb Raider mobile game in the video games award for "mobile game" award, what a fucking joke). A new branch that made to "pander" the West will only split the player base, hurts the brand, and make confusion. The last generation have shown how fucking stupid it is for Japanese developer to intentionally "pander" to the west audience.
I completely concede I may be missing something, but how does Switch/PS4 not make sense? You have the portable for Japan. You have a great userbase for the West. You (presumably) finally have updated models and graphics that could appeal more to the West. Presumably less risky to finally advance from PSP era model with 2 platforms.
splitting the player base.
Less possible, but possible.
Looks like there's point discussing this anymore. You don't want to talk about MH's future on Japan and Capcom's next step in regard of Switch existence. You just want something different with the name Monster Hunter on it and released exclusively on PS4 right?
 

LordKano

Member
Question - what would "westernising" Monster Hunter entail, in your eyes?

Making it more fit to modern standards. Show the HP bar, more craft, easier to control, while keeping the core mechanic of beating huge monsters.

Not that I would like that, but that's how I see a western-focused MonHun.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
I'm saying they'd be different enough that it justified having two separate series, just like Stories and Frontier, correct.



Exactly, and the current formula + Switch is not the answer to doing that. A new branch of the franchise that panders more towards western console audiences as well as continuing the lower risk traditional series on the Switch to satiate Japan begins to make a little more sense when you consider this.

That doesn't make any sense. Stories is a turn based RPG they're entirely different genres. Capcom can't make an entirely different game and attempt to appeal to the core MH fanbase as all their spinoffs bar X have shown (which is essentially just a mainline game with expanded move set) it doesn't work. Either the PS4 version will be an entirely different game to the core MH experience to appeal to a western sensibility or they'll both be exceedingly similar. Switch isn't the 3DS or PSP either it'll be expensive to create to essentially two different HD games getting away with 3DS like graphics late into switches lifespan when Zelda's been their since launch risks losing players due to how far behind it'll look in comparison to comparative games especially in the west.
 
That doesn't make any sense. Stories is a turn based RPG they're entirely different genres. Capcom can't make an entirely different game and attempt to appeal to the core MH fanbase as all their spinoffs bar X have shown (which is essentially just a mainline game with expanded move set) it doesn't work. Either the PS4 version will be an entirely different game to the core MH experience to appeal to a western sensibility or they'll both be exceedingly similar. Switch isn't the 3DS or PSP either it'll be expensive to create to essentially two different HD games getting away with 3DS like graphics late into switches lifespan when Zelda's been their since launch risks losing players due to how far behind it'll look in comparison to comparative games especially in the west.

Capcom have been milking PSP era MH assets for years now and have exhausted them. You can bet that they'll be looking to do this again with whatever engine and asset pool forms the basis for the next 5-10 years of Monster Hunter games. That way, a series on Switch and a series on PS4/XB1 and PC could co-exist, sharing some assets such as Monsters, but with different structures and mechanics.

Like I say, I don't see the point in dropping the current MH formula. It's great and it'd be a big fuck you to fans like me, you and a bunch of people here on GAF and across the web. However, I think that the formula could be modernised in such a way that it suits console better. After all, Nintendo fans are the same people who say Monster Hunter wouldn't make sense on a home console because it's structured around portable play.

Going by that train of thought, the only logical options for bringing the franchise to console are to drop the old formula and change it out right, or branch it out into two separate series.

Making it more fit to modern standards. Show the HP bar, more craft, easier to control, while keeping the core mechanic of beating huge monsters.

Not that I would like that, but that's how I see a western-focused MonHun.

And this is the problem I find with too many Japanese game fans, and I say this as a Japanese game fan; this idea that modernising a franchise means westernising it is just nonsense. They're not mutually exclusive.

Breath of the Wild felt very "modern", but didn't at any point feel as though it wasn't distinctly Japanese in style and delivery. The issue being that many Japanese developers assume that slapping on western gameplay tropes is the key to success. It isn't. Monster Hunter can be modernised for a console audience without losing the soul and essence of the franchise.

I think the majority of MH player base in Japan already expecting Switch version of MHXX and then skip the 3DS version altogether. It seems only the most ardent players that buy the game on 3DS anyway, and as long as MHXX Switch later enables you to import save, there wouldn't be too much damage.

However they can't use the same strategy on the West.Trying to release MHXX 3DS on the West will do much more damage than it did on Japan considering people have expecting Switch version and waiting for localization of the game.

The game already sold 1 million on portable alone with that formula. Capcom have measured that it was not the formula, but handheld lack of popularity on the West especially from the perspective of "serious" gaming (MH4U lost to Tomb Raider mobile game in the video games award for "mobile game" award, what a fucking joke). A new branch that made to "pander" the West will only split the player base, hurts the brand, and make confusion. The last generation have shown how fucking stupid it is for Japanese developer to intentionally "pander" to the west audience.

splitting the player base.

Looks like there's point discussing this anymore. You don't want to talk about MH's future on Japan and Capcom's next step in regard of Switch existence. You just want something different with the name Monster Hunter on it and released exclusively on PS4 right?

Read my response to Kano, modernising Monster Hunter for a console audience does not necessarily mean destroying the essence of the franchise.

I'd also like to add that no, this isn't about what I want. Monster Hunter could stay as it is and exclusively on Nintendo systems forever and I'd still be there day one every time, just as I was for 3 Ultimate, 4U and Generations. This is about what I personally think is going to happen. Don't get it twisted. And your emotions are clearly getting the better of you because I clearly am talking about Monster Hunter's future and Capcom's next step now that Switch is on the scene. It just seems that some of you really don't like the very possible and likely idea that Capcom's ambitions for the series are bigger than just Nintendo Switch.
 

schuelma

Wastes hours checking old Famitsu software data, but that's why we love him.
splitting the player base.

That still doesn't make sense to me. Ok, yes, you would technically be "splitting the userbase"...but the potential userbase overall is huge compared to making it a Switch exclusive.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Capcom have been milking PSP era MH assets for years now and have exhausted them. You can bet that they'll be looking to do this again with whatever engine and asset pool forms the basis for the next 5-10 years of Monster Hunter games. That way, a series on Switch and a series on PS4/XB1 and PC could co-exist, sharing some assets such as Monsters, but with different structures and mechanics.

Like I say, I don't see the point in dropping the current MH formula. It's great and it'd be a big fuck you to fans like me, you and a bunch of people here on GAF and across the web. However, I think that the formula could be modernised in such a way that it suits console better. After all, Nintendo fans are the same people who say Monster Hunter wouldn't make sense on a home console because it's structured around portable play.

Going by that train of thought, the only logical options for bringing the franchise to console are to drop the old formula and change it out right, or branch it out into two separate series.



And this is the problem I find with too many Japanese game fans, and I say this as a Japanese game fan; this idea that modernising a franchise means westernising it is just nonsense. They're not mutually exclusive.

Breath of the Wild felt very "modern", but didn't at any point feel as though it wasn't distinctly Japanese in style and delivery. The issue being that many Japanese developers assume that slapping on western gameplay tropes is the key to success. It isn't. Monster Hunter can be modernised for a console audience without losing the soul and essence of the franchise.



Read my response to Kano, modernising Monster Hunter for a console audience does not necessarily mean destroying the essence of the franchise.

I'd also like to add that no, this isn't about what I want. Monster Hunter could stay as it is and exclusively on Nintendo systems forever and I'd still be there day one every time, just as I was for 3 Ultimate, 4U and Generations. This is about what I personally think is going to happen. Don't get it twisted.

And your emotions are clearly getting the better of you because I clearly am talking about Monster Hunter's future and Capcom's next step in now that Switch is on the scene. At no point have I said it wont' appear on Switch.

That involves more than doubling their work load for potentially less sales and on the chance of more, For an excessively conservative company like Capcom that sounds less likely. This is ignoring the G version won't work on a PS4 they'll add a bunch of micro transactions to make up the short fall but they can't exactly continue releasing G versions for the Switch version while their doing that on the PS4.
 

Kyoufu

Member
"Splitting the player base" is basic fanboy drivel that has been used as gospel for why MH has been mainly "exclusive".
 
That still doesn't make sense to me. Ok, yes, you would technically be "splitting the userbase"...but the potential userbase overall is huge compared to making it a Switch exclusive.

Yup, the splitting the userbase argument never made sense to me. Ever. The most successful multiplayer games on the market, for the most part, are multiplatform. Why that would suddenly be an issue for MH is beyond me. Always came across is fanboy nonsense if I'm being honest.

That involves more than doubling their work load for potentially less sales and on the chance of more, For an excessively conservative company like Capcom that sounds less likely. This is ignoring the G version won't work on a PS4 they'll add a bunch of micro transactions to make up the short fall but they can't exactly continue releasing G versions for the Switch version while their doing that on the PS4.

So what do you suggest as the alternative?
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
I hate this PS2 assets nonsense. For one thing, they redid all of the assets for Tri, part of the reason the original release has so few monsters. Tri was released a decade ago. Then they further redid them again for the 3DS era games.
 

Vena

Member
*sips coffee while working on laser alignment* Fascinating thread this week.

I hate this PS2 assets nonsense. For one thing, they redid all of the assets for Tri, part of the reason the original release has so few monsters. Tri was released a decade ago. Then they further redid them again for the 3DS era games.

Heck, they updated all their assets with MH4U for N3DS launch.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
Yup, the splitting the userbase argument never made sense to me. Ever. The most successful multiplayer games on the market, for the most part, are multiplatform. Why that would suddenly be an issue for MH is beyond me. Always came across is fanboy nonsense if I'm being honest.



So what do you suggest as the alternative?

They make a multiplatform version hybridise Western and current MH tastes while style firmly focused on appealing to Japanese fans and a stronger western marketing push. Cheapest easiest and least risky.
 

Man God

Non-Canon Member
They make a multiplatform version hybridise Western and current MH tastes while style firmly focused on appealing to Japanese fans and a stronger western marketing push. Cheapest easiest and least risky.

They did this. It was called Dragon's Dogma. It bombed spectacularly.
 

Principate

Saint Titanfall
They did this. It was called Dragon's Dogma. It bombed spectacularly.

Dragon's dogma wasn't even multiplayer on release it and had very little to do with traditional MH game styles beyond the general shit clones have been doing for years. It was in now way meant to be that.
 

cw_sasuke

If all DLC came tied to $13 figurines, I'd consider all DLC to be free
Its crazy how much MH has dominated the past page 3-4 discussions of MC threads every since the PSP days.

Really looking forward to the next one...doesnt matter if its PC, PS4 or Switch - just having a big upgrade from 3DS will be enough to get excited again.
 
Capcom expecting the G version of X to sell as a mainline entry only on 3DS, having turned Monster Hunter into annual release series, has no one to blame expect their usual, out of touch with reality, forecasts.

To go back to this, 3DS MH forecasts had all been conservative to realistic. I find it odd how suddenly we got such an unrealistic forecast for this one. That forecast alone was reason enough to expect MHXX HD to be a Switch launch title. I guess them having a Switch version and pushing back the release date is highly unlikely, but the conspiracy theorist in me doesn't see any other logical explanation. It was never gonna sell 2 million on 3DS alone in two weeks. That's a stupid forecast.
 

Hellraider

Member
They did this. It was called Dragon's Dogma. It bombed spectacularly.

Dragon's Dogma has nothing to do with Monster Hunter.


I strongly believe that there is a way to modernize MonHun for the Western audience but it's not what people suggest all the time. Monster HP bar, or less weighty controls and the likes aren't the problem. If god damn Freedom Unite got mainstream status in a country there is nothing to the core of the mechanics that holds back the series from gaining the very same status everywhere. Especially 2 (3) generations later after dozens of QoL upgrades.

What Capcom needs to do is take a look at the big co-op and MMO players of the market and study their approach to online and co-op. Some of the ideas that need to be implemented are things like an MMO-like Hub where players can gather and from there go to their quests, more multiplayer modes like arena but more (metaphorically) colorful, versus modes where two 4p parties could challenge each other asymmetrically (there is already a leaderboard-lite system which they can build on), clan system, clan vs clan system, raid system (monsters like Lao-Shan Lung could just as easily work with 8, 12 or even 16 players, services like the residentevil.net, dungeon crawling (everwood), more complex event quests and I could keep going on but I think everyone gets the direction I have in mind.

Frankly, they couldn't achieve most of these until now because of hardware. No matter where MH ends up all of these will be easily achievable if there is volition in the future.
 

Eolz

Member
Any impact expected from the Atlus event/stream 11h from now?
SMT 3DS will likely be teased, but what else? Etrian Odyssey maybe? Vanillaware?
Seems that outside of Radiant Historia, they'll talk about their 2017 lineup...
 

Oregano

Member
Any impact expected from the Atlus event/stream 11h from now?
SMT 3DS will likely be teased, but what else? Etrian Odyssey maybe? Vanillaware?
Seems that outside of Radiant Historia, they'll talk about their 2017 lineup...

I'm looking forward to Persona Golf Tournament personally.
 
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