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[Mpl90]

did imageepoch ever really exist?

Image what

 

[Madao]

Yes, a lot of the creative headstaff (Pacini for example) from Metroid left. And Kelbaugh wanted to make a DK game, which led to us getting Returns and then, later, Tropical Freeze. Returns sold ~5 million units, more or less three times that of Prime 3, but it was also built from scratch.

I don't think there's anything to indicate that they stopped making Metroid because it was losing money or anything, and just that they lost the talent interested in making it.

believe it or not, that's wrong. DKCR was built on the Metroid Prime engine. they just locked the camera on the side to make it a 2D sidescroller.

people have reverse engineered these games and there's a ton of things similar in the engines. it's hard to believe but it's how it is (like how F-Zero GX used Monkey Ball's engine, etc.)

 

[L~A]

did imageepoch ever really exist?

Ha ha.

It's quite surreal. Reminds me of that time Harada didn't go to work one day and his superiors went all "OMG MISSING! Gotta post message on Twitter asking for his whereabouts!".

believe it or not, that's wrong. DKCR was built on the Metroid Prime engine. they just locked the camera on the side to make it a 2D sidescroller.

people have reverse engineered these games and there's a ton of things similar in the engines. it's hard to believe but it's how it is (like how F-Zero GX used Monkey Ball's engine, etc.)

Yup, I remember reading interviews back in the days, where developers explained they had to (heavily) modify the game engine, as it wasn't adequate for large continuous levels (vs individual rooms separated by loading zones, in Metroid Prime).

Talking about DKCR, do we have an updated LTD for the 3DS version? I remember it selling pretty well in Japan.

 

[hiska-kun]

Talking about DKCR, do we have an updated LTD for the 3DS version? I remember it selling pretty well in Japan.

Media Create's White Paper (that includes the annual top 1000 2014) has been released in Japan. I've been checking some libraries to take a look (and photocopies). But it seems no one has bought it yet.

 

[michaelius]

Erm. Almost no one in Japan sells stuff at RRP at retail unless you shop at big chains which don't care. Even then there are usually good loyalty discounts via points or whatever. If you go to game stores in particular, you can get really good discounts day 1. Also, just look at how Amazon prices stuff. Everything is usually 10% off or more on pre-orders.

Buying digital in Japan is a raw deal because there are so many better deals out there on retail.

That's normal - it's exactly same in Europe - only big market where everything is RRP is America for some unknown for me reasons.

 

[L~A]

That's normal - it's exactly same in Europe - only big market where everything is RRP is America for some unknown for me reasons.

Yeah, in Europe, some retailers have insane discounts... like Amazon FR or ES.

Media Create's White Paper (that includes the annual top 1000 2014) has been released in Japan. I've been checking some libraries to take a look (and photocopies). But it seems no one has bought it yet.

I presume it's super expensive, right? Hopefully, it won't take too long before a kind soul buys it for us. Anyway, thanks in advance for the data.

 

[shinra-bansho]

Manufacturer-imposed or collusion-based price fixing would presumably violate EU competition law.

 

[Alrus]

Yeah EU forbids manufacturer to fix a retail price afaik. That's why you never get hardware pricing in stuff like EU directs.

 

[hiska-kun]

Ok, I just went to a book shop and I found Media Create White Book 2015.
As some of you may know the book costs 42.000¥ (Tax excluded). Yeah, it's more expensive than a PS4 lol

I just took two pictures (this is prohibited lol), about Amiibo and New 3DS Cover Plate sales. Because I found it interesting.

Media Create Sales: Amiibo December 2014

01. Amiibo Link - 39.399
02. Amiibo Mario - 39.274
03. Amiibo Kirby - 35.744
04. Amiibo Pikachu - 19.375
05. Amiibo Marth - 19.246
06. Amiibo Villager - 16.199
07. Amiibo Pit - 16.096
08. Amiibo Yoshi - 15.180
09. Amiibo Captain Falcon - 13.823
10. Amiibo Samus - 13.541

Total Top 10 - 208.631

Media Create Sales: New 3DS Cover Plates 2014

01. Yo-kai Watch: Jibanyan [Plate No. 054] {2014.12.13} - 18.274
02. Monster Hunter: Poogie [Plate No. 038] {2014.10.11} - 6.857
03. Yoshi [Plate No. 004] {2014.10.11} - 6.447
04. Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alpha Sapphire [Plate No. 040] {2014.11.21} - 5.645
05. Mario [Plate No. 001] {2014.10.11} - 5.410
06. Monster Hunter: Yian Kut-ku [Plate No. 037] {2014.10.11}- 5.088
07. Dot & Monochrome [Plate No. 007] {2014.10.11} - 4.946
08. Emboss Treatment & Mario Monogram Gray [Plate No. 005] {2014.10.11} - 4.938
09. Grain & Mario Monogram [Plate No. 024] {2014.10.11} - 4.801
10. Animal Crossing: Isabelle [Plate no. 013] {2014.10.11} - 4.198

Total Top 10: 66.604

----

Also, I took some memos regarding Dragon Quest X sales. Since we're getting numbers for the new version this week.

[WII] Dragon Quest X: Nemureru Yuusha to Michibiki no Meiyuu Online <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.12.05} (¥3.990) - 117.432 / 175.156
[WIU] Dragon Quest X: Nemureru Yuusha to Michibiki no Meiyuu Online <RPG> (Square Enix) {2013.12.05} (¥3.990) - 70.648 / 119.390

[3DS] Dragon Quest X Online <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.09.04} (¥4.104) - 52.375 / 133.105

[WIU] Dragon Quest X: All in One Package <RPG> (Square Enix) {2014.08.07} (¥5.184) - 3.945 / 30.441

Wii version for All in One Package was ~6k.

The lowest game in top 1000 2014 sold ~1,7k Ouch

Source:

 

[Mpl90]

Well, it seems like shit is starting to get real, after all!

Also: it always surprise me how amiibos are selling much better in Europe and MUCH MUCH better in US than in Japan.

 

[hiska-kun]

For me it's surprising the disaster the cover plates have been lol

Just the Yo-kai Watch one (that was released in December 13th) sold decently.

We need more data and the following months for an Amiibo trend in Japan.

 

[duckroll]

That's normal - it's exactly same in Europe - only big market where everything is RRP is America for some unknown for me reasons.

Manufacturer-imposed or collusion-based price fixing would presumably violate EU competition law.

Yeah EU forbids manufacturer to fix a retail price afaik. That's why you never get hardware pricing in stuff like EU directs.

Sounds like Europe is very much like Japan then. I'm not sure what Pennywise was referring to in that case. As long as retailers can set their own prices, there will be price drops in any competitive market.

 

[Celine]

Ok, I just went to a book shop and I found Media Create White Book 2015.

Oh!

 

[Moor-Angol]

Media Create Sales: New 3DS Cover Plates 2014

01. Yo-kai Watch: Jibanyan (Plate No. 054) - 18.274
02. Monster Hunter: Poogie (Plate No. 038) - 6.857
03. Yoshi (Plate No. 004) - 6.447
04. Pokemon Omega Ruby / Alfa Sapphire (Plate No. 040) - 5.645
05. Mario (Plate No. 001) - 5.410

always behind eh eh eh eh eh

 

[mclem]

Media Create Sales: Amiibo December 2014

01. Amiibo Link - 39.399
02. Amiibo Mario - 39.274

Link outselling Mario is a little bit of a surprise. I suppose this was in the height of Hyrule Warriors time, so people would be after the Spinner among other things, but even so...

 

[hiska-kun]

Captain Toad > Hyrule Warriors > Donkey Kong TF

 

[Alrus]

I wonder why Tropical Freeze suffered such a massive drop in sales compared to DKCR. I mean a drop was expected but to go from close to a million copies to barely over a 100k is very steep.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Link outselling Mario is a little bit of a surprise. I suppose this was in the height of Hyrule Warriors time, so people would be after the Spinner among other things, but even so...

I think "outselling" is perhaps the wrong way to see that - it's a 125-unit difference, so it's barely a statistical fart - when the interesting thing is that Link was even at all competitive with Mario in the first place. I'd have expected Mario/Kirby/Pikachu in the top three, with Link down in the fourth place occupied by Pikachu (with that difference in sales) so it's interesting that his figure is essentially one of the top-sellers alongside Mario.

 

[random25]

Captain Toad outselling Hyrule Warriors was a surprise. It started really slow, and some already called it bomba, but in the end it sold much better.

 

[theprodigy]

Link outselling Mario is a little bit of a surprise. I suppose this was in the height of Hyrule Warriors time, so people would be after the Spinner among other things, but even so...

I think "outselling" is perhaps the wrong way to see that - it's a 125-unit difference, so it's barely a statistical fart - when the interesting thing is that Link was even at all competitive with Mario in the first place. I'd have expected Mario/Kirby/Pikachu in the top three, with Link down in the fourth place occupied by Pikachu (with that difference in sales) so it's interesting that his figure is essentially one of the top-sellers alongside Mario.

why? it's the hardcore Nintendo fans buying amiibos, this is exactly the demographic where Link excels at

 

[Cosmonaut X]

why? it's the hardcore Nintendo fans buying amiibos, this is exactly the demographic where Link excels at

Point.

 

[hiska-kun]

God Eater Vita - ~424k
God Eater PSP - ~236k

 

[Hero of Legend]

Captain Toad > Hyrule Warriors > Donkey Kong TF

Can you provide numbers for all three if you can please?

Would also love a Taiko 1 and 2 Wii U update.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

I want Miku 3DS updates!

I wonder why Tropical Freeze suffered such a massive drop in sales compared to DKCR. I mean a drop was expected but to go from close to a million copies to barely over a 100k is very steep.

Because nobody asked for a sequel.

 

[Mpl90]

Total amiibo shipment up to December 31st, 2014 - 5.7 millions

Regional Shipment Breakdown

US + Canada - 3,591,000
Europe - 1,311,000
Japan - 627,000
Australia - 171,000

Regional Sellthrough Breakdown

As you can see at a glance, the sector in red representing the U.S. and Canada accounts for a significant portion: 63 percent. The sell-through proportion of the total shipment is approximately 70 percent in each of Japan, U.S. and Canada, and Europe while it reaches 90 percent in Australia.

US + Canada - 2,513,700
Europe - 917,700
Japan - 438,900
Australia - 153,900

Total Japan Top 10 - 208.631

The others - 230,269

 

[berzeli]

That's normal - it's exactly same in Europe - only big market where everything is RRP is America for some unknown for me reasons.

Manufacturer-imposed or collusion-based price fixing would presumably violate EU competition law.

Yeah EU forbids manufacturer to fix a retail price afaik. That's why you never get hardware pricing in stuff like EU directs.

Sounds like Europe is very much like Japan then. I'm not sure what Pennywise was referring to in that case. As long as retailers can set their own prices, there will be price drops in any competitive market.

It would violate EU law and as a side note Nintendo was fined 149 million euros back in 2002 for being dicks about retail pricing so I don't think game companies are particularly interested in pursuing that type of arrangement in the EU.

 

[hiska-kun]

Total amiibo shipment up to December 31st, 2014 - 5.7 millions

Regional Shipment Breakdown



US + Canada - 3,591,000
Europe - 1,311,000
Japan - 627,000
Australia - 171,000

Regional Sellthrough Breakdown



US + Canada - 2,513,700
Europe - 917,700
Japan - 438,900
Australia - 153,900

Total Japan Top 10 - 208.631

The others - 230,269

Nintendo uses Media Create as a Source, so these numbers must be accurate.

 

[Mpl90]

Nintendo uses Media Create as a Source, so these numbers must be accurate.

Actually, there's a problem. A total of 18 amiibos released in Japan in 2014. So, those 230,269 units would have to be splitted across 8 amiibos. The average would be 28,784, which is...impossible, considering how 10th is slightly over 13,000. It all depends on that "approximately", I suppose.

 

[Celine]

I wonder why Tropical Freeze suffered such a massive drop in sales compared to DKCR. I mean a drop was expected but to go from close to a million copies to barely over a 100k is very steep.

Maybe DKCR difficulty scared away potential buyers for the sequel?

 

[Hero of Legend]

Maybe DKCR difficulty scared away potential buyers for the sequel?

I say it was too soon, as in people were ready for something big and grand from Retro and got more or less the "same" game they played on Wii 3 years prior, that and 2D platformer fatigue.

 

[A.J.]

God Eater Vita - ~424k
God Eater PSP - ~236k

God Eater's popularity is on the rise I see

 

[Pennywise83]

Manufacturer-imposed or collusion-based price fixing would presumably violate EU competition law.

EU competition law is of course against concerted practices that would restrict competition (Article 101 TFEU); are RPM agreements illegal per se? This debate is still on-going. Individual Member States, though, might regulate markets differently. In the book industry, fixed book price agreements are mandatory by law, so the retail price must be decided by the publisher itself; e.g. Lang Law in France, and other similar laws in many other European countries. Therefore, individual Member States might have different takes on the pricing decision process in retailing, also in other industries.

Sounds like Europe is very much like Japan then. I'm not sure what Pennywise was referring to in that case. As long as retailers can set their own prices, there will be price drops in any competitive market.

That is why I was asking whether there were RPM in Japan...? I did not found anything in a quick search on the Web. RPM might be common and even imposed by the law in some countries in specific industries, that is why I was asking.

My understanding is that in the west some retail agreements allow retailers to return unsold stock back to distributors within a certain period, so they're more willing to agree to more terms set by distributors with regards to pricing and higher order volume. In Japan retailers buy stock outright, so anything that is shipped into the retail channel can be considered a sale for the distributor. That's probably why no one feels obligated to sell at RRP unless it's a huge title which will definitely sell out regardless.

Big chains can sell at RRP because they cater to casual shoppers who probably aren't going around comparing prices, so there's no reason for them to make less money, but in places like Akihabara where the entire district is filled with game speciality stores, the competition is really tough, so to attract customers stores tend to discount stuff pretty heavily even at launch. That's where people who are price conscious tend to shop.

I'm sure from a publisher perspective they would LOVE to be able to regulate prices, but Japan has been historically against stuff like this. With lawmakers going after price fixing and refusing to legislate against used games and so on. It's good for consumers though.

In Italy, for example, manufacturers cannot decide the retail price (i.e. it cannot be a contractible variable when negotiating a contract); it can only suggest a price; on the other hand, though, hardware manufacturers typically keep wholesale or intermediate prices high, so to avoid retailers to price too low, because that would be against the law as well.

By the way, in Japan RPM are forbidden but there are some exeptions; for example, apparently RPM are (were?) in force in the music industry, and other industry where copyrighted materials are sold, therefore my question was not irrelevant or insane, since video games can be considered copyrighted products (they are, after all). There has been also a recent discussion to amend them.

Furthermore, what I was referring was not RPM that would fix a price ad aeternum. I was referring to RPM that would work for new releases in a short span of time after launch (which is what is happening for books in some European countries, as mentioned above).

It would violate EU law and as a side note Nintendo was fined 149 million euros back in 2002 for being dicks about retail pricing so I don't think game companies are particularly interested in pursuing that type of arrangement in the EU.

Do not get confused. RPM does not imply collusion, and the vice versa is true as well. Nintendo was fined because it was preventing with other companies the free trade across Member States, which is of course illegal under EU rules.

 

[hiska-kun]

Actually, there's a problem. A total of 18 amiibos released in Japan in 2014. So, those 230,269 units would have to be splitted across 8 amiibos. The average would be 28,784, which is...impossible, considering how 10th is slightly over 13,000. It all depends on that "approximately", I suppose.

This is a pie chart indicating the regional shipment breakdown of amiibo from its launch until the sixth week of this calendar year.

Ok, we can't extrapolate from here.

 

[Mpl90]

Ok, we can't extrapolate from here.

That explains everything, then.
5.7 millions - up to December 31st, 2014
Sell-through - up to sixth week of 2015.

Yeah, we just know how much the first 10 sold.

 

[Jackano]

Well, it seems like shit is starting to get real, after all!

Also: it always surprise me how amiibos are selling much better in Europe and MUCH MUCH better in US than in Japan.

Iwata partly adresed that. Japanese customers find the amiibo size weird. They prefers/are used to much smaller or much bigger figures.

 

[L~A]

For me it's surprising the disaster the cover plates have been lol

Just the Yo-kai Watch one (that was released in December 13th) sold decently.

We need more data and the following months for an Amiibo trend in Japan.

Hmm... it's certainly disappointing, but I wouldn't call that a disaster. I feel that people (not talking about you specifically!) have really been "over-hyping" cover plates, expecting the New 3DS model to outsell the XL model because of them.

I mean, yeah, they're a great concept and all, and some of the plates are fantastic... but they're expensive. 1600 Yen for the cheapest models... that's quite steep for a bunch of plastic that you have to unscrew every time you want to replace (and isn't even available on the XL model, which is so much more popular).

Can't say I'm not too surprised the cover plates aren't selling more to be honest.

Anyway, thank you sooooo much for all this data. Hope you can find a way to get the rest without ending in prison for illegal copy of copyrighted material

 

[Alrus]

Coverplates are a bit unpractical yeah, and they're fairly expensive. So I'm not too surprised they didn't sell too well.

God Eater's popularity is on the rise I see

It's the same game (God Eater 2), the original did about the same on the PSP. So it's more stable than on the rise.

 

[Psycho_Mantis]

It's the same game (God Eater 2), the original did about the same on the PSP. So it's more stable than on the rise.

GE : 618k
GE2 : 660k

Does GE2 figure include digital?

 

[Screamapillar]

GE : 618k
GE2 : 660k

Does GE2 figure include digital?

Only if there were download POS cards. Otherwise it's only physical retail.

 

[Alrus]

GE : 618k
GE2 : 660k

Does GE2 figure include digital?

Oh, thought GE did a bit better, yeah guess there's a rise in popularity then. I think Rage Burst did a bit worse than Burst though?

Edit: Not that it matters too much, God Eater is a great success for Namco Bandai in general, excepting the PS4 version.

 

[hiska-kun]

Can you provide numbers for all three if you can please?

Would also love a Taiko 1 and 2 Wii U update.

We have more updated numbers for Toad (the numbers of this book are for 2014).

For Hyrule Warriors and Donkey Kong TF, both sold 116k, but HW is some hundred units higher.

I guess I could go again to that shop, but the best would be to wait until is available in a library and make photocopies there.

 

[Busaiku]

Why did Nintendo make such a big deal about amiibo if they expected it to be such a small (relatively) part of their revenue.

 

[Screamapillar]

Why did Nintendo make such a big deal about amiibo if they expected it to be such a small (relatively) part of their revenue.

A) They didn't know exactly what type of consumer would be purchasing the Amiibo, since it is completely new territory for them. Thus, they couldn't publicly give precise predictions, incase their internal projections were too optimistic.

B) They are high margin, but low revenue. They might make a $5 dollars (purely a guess) on each unit sold, but the units are only sold for $12.99 in the US. It's the opposite of hardware, which is low margin, but much higher revenue.

And of course they would make big deal about a new product line, as they want as many people to know about Amiibo as possible. The whole point is to sell them and make money.

 

[Eolz]

Thanks for the details hiska-kun.
Didn't expect Pikachu to be "so much" behind the top 3 tbh.
The plate ranking is pretty interesting too. Good insight into what kind of plates are being bought and into what might come later.

 

[Go_Ly_Dow]

Wait, where's the numbers baby?

 

[hiska-kun]

Too bad that we have to wait one full year for 2015 Amiibo and Cover Plates sales. -.-

 

[L~A]

^

Yeah... though I guess subscribers do get more "up to date" data.

***

Turns out Toei didn't find broadcasting partners for Digimon Adventures Tri, it's now a 6-part film series.

Source

Wonder what impact it'll have on sales for Cyber Sleuth.

***

And for people asking for new numbers: May 8th for both Media and Famitsu, due to Golden Week (over in 38mn, actually).

 

[berzeli]

EU competition law is of course against concerted practices that would restrict competition (Article 101 TFEU); are RPM agreements illegal per se? This debate is still on-going[. Individual Member States, though, might regulate markets differently. In the book industry, fixed book price agreements are mandatory by law, so the retail price must be decided by the publisher itself; e.g. Lang Law in France, and other similar laws in many other European countries. Therefore, individual Member States might have different takes on the pricing decision process in retailing, also in other industries.

Even if the EU court did rule that RPM doesn't necessarily fall under Article 101 TFEU with CESPA (but not in the clearest of ways in my opinion), the Commission and the individual member states still treat any and all RPM agreements as anti-competitive; this article gives a good overview.

The above analysis reflects that, despite the intense economic and legal debate in the European Union that followed the 2007 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Leegin, the approach to RPM by EU competition law enforcers has not substantially changed.

And I'm not sure why you bring up your book example since it pertains only to that specific industry, so for RPM to be considered legal with regards to games the lawmakers in those individual states would have to pass laws similar to Lang Law with the intent to allow publishers to control resale price. I don't think that would go over well.

Do not get confused. RPM does not imply collusion, and the vice versa is true as well. Nintendo was fined because it was preventing with other companies the free trade across Member States, which is of course illegal under EU rules.

I was addressing it as a side note because it wasn't a 1:1 analogue with what we're discussing, which is why I said as much in the post. The EC typically does not appreciate companies trying to artificially inflate prices and I'm fail to see on what basis you're trying to argue that this practice is common.

 

[KingSnake]

I wonder why Tropical Freeze suffered such a massive drop in sales compared to DKCR. I mean a drop was expected but to go from close to a million copies to barely over a 100k is very steep.

I think it was perceived as more of the same and way too soon. One of the games that while looks great, doesn't really benefit that much from the Wii to Wii U graphics upgrade. Kind of like NSMBU was perceived, but Mario always sells games.

 

[Busaiku]

It's not too crazy to understand low Pikachu sales.
Unlike the others, there is an abundance of Pikachu merchandise. There are also no games that really gain anything specific to it, besides Super Smash Bros.