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Media Create Sales: Week 34, 2013 (Aug 19 - Aug 25)

D

DaBoss

Member
Mario007 said:
Taking resources away, burning fans, franchise fatique.
Click to expand...

Aren't most social/iOS/browser games outsourced to some c-tier dev?

Burning fans would have to be by teasing announcements regarding the series.

Why would social games cause franchise fatigue? There are tons of social/iOS/browser games for large IPs and it doesn't seem like they're getting affected.

I would even go on to say the money they get from those social/iOS/browser games would help fund the actual games made for consoles/handhelds regarding the IP.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
Well the way you would really migrate a franchise like Bravely Default is by stopping the 3DS component and only releasing on iOS/Android.

We can use Theatrhythm Curtain Call as a barometer of whether they would consider doing such a thing.
 
M

Mario007

Member
KillerTravis said:
There's already a browser game though. Bravely Default: Praying Mantis or something like that.
Click to expand...
True, forgot this.
DaBoss said:
Aren't most social/iOS/browser games outsourced to some c-tier dev?

Burning fans would have to be by teasing announcements regarding the series.

Why would social games cause franchise fatigue? There are tons of social/iOS/browser games for large IPs and it doesn't seem like they're getting affected.

I would even go on to say the money they get from those social/iOS/browser games would help fund the actual games made for consoles/handhelds regarding the IP.
Click to expand...
I don't know, I'm just too burned from SE's direction these days. Might have been making hasty conclusions.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
guek said:
If DQ can move to a nintendo handheld, I don't see why P5 couldn't. It's not probable but certainly possible. 2ch rumors though, those are completely worthless.
Click to expand...

Dragon Quest shifted from Nintendo to Sony in 2000, when Sony's platform was on top. It shifted back when a Nintendo platform was on top. Persona's been a Sony series consistently, as far as I know, I don't think it's the same thing.
 
N

Nirolak

Mrgrgr
This threads reminds me of the days when people panicked over console games going to handhelds instead of everything going to phones.

Alas, soon but a distant memory.
 
Z

zroid

Banned
L Thammy said:
Dragon Quest shifted from Nintendo to Sony in 2000, when Sony's platform was on top. It shifted back when a Nintendo platform was on top. Persona's been a Sony series consistently, as far as I know, I don't think it's the same thing.
Click to expand...

I actually think P4A has pretty much opened the door for Persona to be a multi-platform series, going forward.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Untalkative_Bunny said:
I don't care where they put it as long as there is no in-game transactions or game breaking dlc, like there was in SMTIV.
Click to expand...

Battle panties shall be DLC.

Nirolak said:
I don't think it's that hard to figure out.

Their internal engine was targeting PS3/360 level hardware, and they made Catherine as a dry run on HD development.

They then said the new engine should help speed up development on that team's next project.

Unless they canned what they had and moved platforms, the platform choice seems obvious.
Click to expand...

OMG some sense.

H_Prestige said:
Wasn't the same true also of MH?

The only reason for P5 to be on PS3 is if Atlus wants it to remain a console franchise.
Click to expand...

MH is an insanely popular franchise. So big that even if it moves to other platforms people will buy those platforms to play the game. With more niche games fewer people will buy a system for that franchise.
 
B

BlackLagoon

Member
Zeer0id said:
I actually think P4A has pretty much opened the door for Persona to be a multi-platform series, going forward.
Click to expand...
I dunno, that was a spin-off developed by Arc System Works on an engine they've already ported to everything. I wouldn't necessarily take that as any indication as to what Atlus internal development is planning.
 
M

metalslimer

Member
airmangataosenai said:
This discussion is moving dangerously close to tipping from speculation to full-on port begging.
Click to expand...

Wtf, there is no game announced to port beg. Anyone can scream they want persona 5 on anything because it has not been announced. Now when its inevitable announced for pswhatever then it will be port begging.
 
P

prwxv3

Member
metalslimer said:
Wtf, there is no game announced to port beg. Anyone can scream they want persona 5 on anything because it has not been announced. Now when its inevitable announced for pswhatever then it will be port begging.
Click to expand...

It will be hilarious no matter what platform it ends up on .

I am in the ps3/maybe 360 camp with a vita port later.
 
M

michaelius

Banned
BlackLagoon said:
I dunno, that was a spin-off developed by Arc System Works on an engine they've already ported to everything. I wouldn't necessarily take that as any indication as to what Atlus internal development is planning.
Click to expand...

I'd say Catherine is pretty good hint on which platforms P5 will end.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
As far as the 3ds audience goes, wasn't Fire Emblem Awakening's success at least partially based on the anime-ish character interactions and the support system? It sounds like that same audience could go for modern Persona's Social Links and characters.

But, yeah, nothing from the way Atlus itself has handled the franchise so far makes one think that they'd make it head to the 3ds.
 
L

Lesiroth

Member
BlackLagoon said:
I dunno, that was a spin-off developed by Arc System Works on an engine they've already ported to everything. I wouldn't necessarily take that as any indication as to what Atlus internal development is planning.
Click to expand...

That's true, but considering Catherine and the work that went into it, I'd guess PS360 is a safe bet.
 
V

Vice

Member
L Thammy said:
Dragon Quest shifted from Nintendo to Sony in 2000, when Sony's platform was on top. It shifted back when a Nintendo platform was on top. Persona's been a Sony series consistently, as far as I know, I don't think it's the same thing.
Click to expand...

P1-P4 were all released when Sony platforms were dominate though. Since Nintendo's handhelds have dominated Japan the majority of SMT games have been on the DS or 3DS. The portables have received everything from mainline SMTs to spin-offs. P5 on 3DS isn't a longshot.
 
P

prwxv3

Member
It makes no sense for Altus to make P5 a 3DS exclusive at least. Why would Atlus abandon their audience and engine that are already on playstation platforms. A port could be possible though.
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
List of formally-announced, internally-developed console Atlus games:

[NDS] Etrian Odyssey III: The Drowned City (April 1, 2010)
[PSP] Tokyo Mono Hara Shi: Karasu no Mori Gakuen Kitan (April 22, 2010)
[WII] Trauma Team (May 18, 2010)
[NDS] Radiant Historia (November 3, 2010)

[PS3] Catherine (February 17, 2011)
[PSP] Persona 2: Innocent Sin (April 14, 2011)
[NDS] Nora to Toki no Kōbō: Kiri no Mori no Majo (July 21, 2011)
[NDS] Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor 2 (July 28, 2011)
[3DS] Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor Overclocked (August 23, 2011)

[PSP] Persona 2: Eternal Punishment (May 12, 2012)
[PSV] Persona 4: The Golden (June 14, 2012)
[3DS] Etrian Odyssey IV (July 5, 2012)
[PS3] Persona 4 Arena (July 26, 2012) (collaboration with Arc System Works)
[3DS] Devil Summoner: Soul Hackers (August 30, 2012)

[3DS] Shin Megami Tensei IV (May 23, 2013)
[3DS] Etrian Odyssey Untold: The Millennium Girl (June 27, 2013)
[3DS] Devil Survivor 2: Break Record (Q4 2013)
[WIU] Shin Megami Tensei x Fire Emblem (TBA 2014) (collaboration with Intelligent Systems)

I don't know. On the one hand, it makes logical sense that Persona 5 would be a PS3 / PSV venture, considering how Atlus approached Arc System Works for Persona 4: Arena on the PS3, and made Persona 4 Golden a Vita exclusive.

On the other hand, Atlus's internal development seems to be quite focused on Nintendo products lately. Not only do we have the partnership with Nintendo for the Wii U, but Atlus proper hasn't exclusively developed a game (a non-collaboration) for the PlayStation family since Persona 4 Golden.

Normally I'd give more weight to the "fanbase is on PlayStation" argument, but the 3DS is just so ridiculously successful in Japan (12.15 million LTD) that I have to question whether Atlus really takes that argument as seriously as we seem to think. I also wonder whether Nintendo has been utilizing their new-found relationship with Atlus to coax them in their favor. We know Nintendo has approached companies like Square Enix (Dragon Quest exclusivity) and Capcom (Monster Hunter exclusivity) in the past.
 
O

ohlawd

Member
You guys can reason shit all you want but P5 isn't going to happen on the 3DS.

I see these outcomes, mang
PS3
PS3/Vita
PS3/360
PS3/Vita/360

One of those. That's it.
 
K

Kikujiro

Member
Persona 5 going exclusive to whatever console makes no sense, it would only makes sense if Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft bought the exclusive for a lot of money.

Persona 5 will be on more than one console, Atlus is gonna milk the shit out of the game, how is this even a question? Why would they limit their profits on one console?
 
A

Aquamarine

Member
Kikujiro said:
Persona 5 going exclusive to whatever console makes no sense, it would only makes sense if Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft bought the exclusive for a lot of money.

Persona 5 will be on more than one console, Atlus is gonna milk the shit out of the game, how is this even a question? Why would they limit their profits on one console?
Click to expand...

Atlus has a history of limiting games to one console initially.

However, we look at Atlus's previous trend of re-releases, it's most likely that Atlus would make Persona 5 exclusive to one "console type" at the beginning, and then do an upgraded port to another platform down the line.

So one of these to begin with:

Vita
PS3 + Vita
PS3 + 360
PS3
3DS
 
O

Oregano

Member
Nirolak said:
Well the way you would really migrate a franchise like Bravely Default is by stopping the 3DS component and only releasing on iOS/Android.

We can use Theatrhythm Curtain Call as a barometer of whether they would consider doing such a thing.
Click to expand...

I think it might depend on how much pull the individual producers have as well though. It seems after 4 Heroes of Light that Takashi Tokita went to work on mobile platforms snd Tomoya Asano began working on Bravely Default. He's also talked about how important he thinks the 3DS is to Bravely Default in the past. I'm not sure he has any desire to move to a new platform. Especially considering how well the game did for itself.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Vice said:
P1-P4 were all released when Sony platforms were dominate though. Since Nintendo's handhelds have dominated Japan the majority of SMT games have been on the DS or 3DS. The portables have received everything from mainline SMTs to spin-offs. P5 on 3DS isn't a longshot.
Click to expand...

Persona will sell the same if it was on a 10 million fanbase or 15 million fanbase. Yes it is a longshot.
 
B

BlackLagoon

Member
Lesiroth said:
That's true, but considering Catherine and the work that went into it, I'd guess PS360 is a safe bet.
Click to expand...
Ah, but Catherine was a licensed engine (Gamebryo) which already had 360 support. P5 is supposed to have a new in-house developed engine, so there would still be more a fair bit of extra effort for them to make it mulit-platform.

Aquamarine said:
On the other hand, Atlus's internal development seems to be quite focused on Nintendo products lately. Not only do we have the partnership with Nintendo for the Wii U, but Atlus proper hasn't exclusively developed a game (a non-collaboration) for the PlayStation family since Persona 4 Golden.
Click to expand...
Wandering into somewhat unfamiliar territory here, but it seems to me though that Atlus' 3DS games are significantly simpler than Persona 3/4 in terms of presentation/engine tech. As far as I can tell the SMT games don't even use 3D models, do they? And while Etrian is 3D, there's no free movement and animation is pretty limited, right?

To me, one might just as well argue that the PlayStation games have been fewer because they're more technically advanced, and more time-consuming to develop. And supposing a Persona game on the 3DS, it would either undergo a significant technical downgrade, or Atlus would need to spend time building a much more advanced 3DS engine (and still then they're not a company known for pushing the limits of the hardware they're working on). When the devs specifically mentioned P4G going to the Vita because they wouldn't have to make compromises like for P3P, I'm not sure they'd be that crazy about moving to weaker hardware again.

Also, about Atlus' future in general... Well, a lot of their output in the last few years has been handheld ports/remakes of their older games. Now for the PS1-era games, the 3DS is fine. But for PS2 ones, while it's certainly possible for a studio like HexaDrive, not sure Atlus is dying for the challenge, especially when they've already got their PS2-era engine running on the Vita with P4G.
 
L

L Thammy

Member
BlackLagoon said:
Wandering into somewhat unfamiliar territory here, but it seems to me though that Atlus' 3DS games are significantly simpler than Persona 3/4 in terms of presentation/engine tech. As far as I can tell the SMT games don't even use 3D models, do they? And while Etrian is 3D, there's no free movement and animation is pretty limited, right?
Click to expand...

I haven't actually played my copy yet, but it seems from the screenshots in the guidebook that SMT4 is 3D. Monsters are 2D in battle and there's 2D portraits in conversations, but your character is rendered as a 3D model when you're walking about.

Devil Survivor and Soul Hackers are mostly straight ports, if I recall.
 
S

Sendou

Member
L Thammy said:
I haven't actually played my copy yet, but it seems from the screenshots in the guidebook that SMT4 is 3D. Monsters are 2D in battle and there's 2D portraits in conversations, but your character is rendered as a 3D model when you're walking about.
Click to expand...

That's correct.
 
W

wrowa

Member
Does it really make sesne to discuss the future of unannounced Atlus games, when we don't know how the company will be structured in the future? They might be bought by someone who's not interested in changing the internal politics, but they also might be bought someone who's going to restructure their business and strategy completely. What they've done in the past, is not necessarily in any way or form representative of their future decisions.
 
Q

QuiteWhittle

Member
L Thammy said:
I haven't actually played my copy yet, but it seems from the screenshots in the guidebook that SMT4 is 3D. Monsters are 2D in battle and there's 2D portraits in conversations, but your character is rendered as a 3D model when you're walking about.
Click to expand...
Yep and there are 3D NPCs on the field. Atlus could've used an 8GB cart with hundreds of demon models. But they didn't.
 
C

crinale

Member
Sendou said:
Is there some concern it wouldn't? It is Atlus' biggest IP, yes?
Click to expand...

I was worrying about Atlus going under, or bought out by corporation with no interest in gaming but their IPs.
The news regarding buyouts should have been arrived last month, but we still haven't heard anything yet.
 
P

pieatorium

Member
1st Course said:
I believe Catherine is their best selling internally developed game of all time but it's not a franchise.
Click to expand...

no idea about worldwide but for japan the first persona is their highest selling game, at least as a single release. 6 of their top 10 are persona, p4 is in the top 10 twice with the original and golden.

Catherine is 11th.
 
B

BishopLamont

Banned
Persona 5 will most likely come out for the PS3 then ported to to a handheld later down the road, its the best way to maximize the sales like it was with Persona 4.

If it does come to the 3DS rather than the Vita, they'll most likely test the waters first with a remake on the 3DS. There's no way they'll release it on the 3DS exclusively, a home console version is a definite, even if they do go 3DS exclusive at first, a home console version will come out eventually.
 
V

Vice

Member
Pyscho_Mantis said:
Persona will sell the same if it was on a 10 million fanbase or 15 million fanbase. Yes it is a longshot.
Click to expand...

If it will sell the same on either platform then why wouldn't they release for the platform that's cheaper to develop for? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective route.
 
B

BlackLagoon

Member
Vice said:
If it will sell the same on either platform then why wouldn't they release for the platform that's cheaper to develop for? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective route.
Click to expand...
But the 3DS doesn't have some sort of secret function that magically makes development cheaper. It would only be a cheaper game to develop if it was, well, a cheaper game - less assets, less animation, 2d battles, smaller environments, etc. As per their statement on moving P4G to the Vita, that's not the direction the devs want to go, and I doubt it's where most fans of the series want it either.
 
P

Psycho_Mantis

Banned
Vice said:
If it will sell the same on either platform then why wouldn't they release for the platform that's cheaper to develop for? Wouldn't that be the most cost effective route.
Click to expand...

I didn't say that. I said it will sell the same even if the PS3 had an install base of 10 million or had "dominated" and had an install base of 15-20 million.

I didn't say it would sell the same on PS3 and 3DS. I think PS3 SKU would outsell a 3DS SKU (especially worldwide) due to the fan base being on those platforms.
 
D

duckroll

Member
Tsutaya ranking and commentary: http://mantan-web.jp/2013/09/03/20130903dog00m200009000c.html

1. Jojo (PS3)
2. FFXIV (PS3)
3. Ragnarok Odyssey Ace (Vita)
4. Lost Planet 3 (PS3)
5. Disney Magic Castle (3DS)
6. Mario & Luigi RPG 4 (3DS)
7. Yokai Watch (3DS)
8. Conception 2 (Vita)
9. Masou Kishin 3 (PS3)
10. Tomodachi Collection (3DS)

- Jojo is the biggest opening of any title this year
- FFXIV sold more than half of what Jojo did, very surprising for an online game

NOTE: This is only for Tsutaya's chain of stores and is not based on nationwide tracking and might not be reflective of the market at large.
 
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