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Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

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XO_o

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dfHV4DD.jpg
 

FunkMiller

Member
An Australian man has been killed by a mackerel after the fish leapt from the sea into a fishing boat and struck him on the chest.

The 56-year-old man was fishing with family and friends in Darwin Harbour, in the Northern Territory, on Friday when the incident occurred.


It has begun,
NWO.

Pretty much par for the course in Darwin, to be fair. It’s hotter than the surface of the sun, wetter than an otter’s pocket, and everything hates you.
 
Obviously with a grain of salt - The cast was talking about the Series S controller and its speculated release date. Alanah made a comment about someone DM'ing her a pic from a retail store computer showing that the Series X is listed in their system as $599.

Timestamped it.


I don’t think MS is gonna do $599. Sure Sony still has PTSD from the PS3, but seriously, have MS not take any lesson from that generation? I could see this working if Lockhart was like a diskless XSX at $499 but not this way.
 

saintjules

Member
I don’t think MS is gonna do $599. Sure Sony still has PTSD from the PS3, but seriously, have MS not take any lesson from that generation? I could see this working if Lockhart was like a diskless XSX at $499 but not this way.

I guess what I would say is that I wouldn't totally rule out the possibility for either Console. MS / Sony still not revealing prices feels like 'bad news'. Depends on who you ask though.

We're in the middle of August now and still nothing.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
The RT reflection quality in the Spidey MM trailers and screenshots looks exceptional. I have a hard time believing they rendering the reflections near or at full screen res on PS5 though (even taking into account cut off with roughness, softness and diffusion; they're so smooth and artifact free). However it doesn't look crispy and checker-boarded either (like GT5). Wondering if they're "injecting" their Temporal Injection solution into the reflections to bring them up to spec.

Also, I hope they use their Dynamic Res Scale + Temporal Injection tech for rendering res on PS5. Something like..

Performance Mode = 1440p+ DRS & TI+ML

Resolution Mode = 2034p+ DRS & TI+ML

Would also be nice to see VRS used as an inverse to DRS. It's preferable to selectively shade less of the less important pixels than render less pixels overall. Push overall res as high as possible and use VRS as needed, but when VRS is not there to save your bacon then resort to pushing overall res down. But use hybrid temporal injection + machine learning to reconstruct. Think of it as a triangle of elements: DRS, VRS, Reconstruction; all pushing an pulling to maintain performance while maximising the potential image quality at any given time.

Though I wonder, with the quality of Insomniac's reconstruction, motion blur, anti-aliasing and post processing pipeline; and double the reference samples feeding that in the 60fps mode; it might make the at or near-native 4K resolution mode totally irrelevant. Barring any major graphical/filtering/asset differences between modes of course...

You are thinking at the later stages of the rendering pipeline but ignoring the middle stages where framebuffers have to have discrete pixel resolution to do any lighting/shading on.

RT reflections is the least costly RT feature. It probably only takes up maybe 5% of the overall screen given it's probably bound ONLY on surfaces with high specular contribution. In short, reflections aren't going to be enough to push a game's visuals to new heights (Battlefield 5 had only RT reflections). It will be interesting to see if the consoles will have enough power to implement full GI and ambient occlusion using ray-tracing - which takes up a LOT more of the portion of scene rendering.
 
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Not quite. When this was released you had rabid Xbox and PC fanboys hounding any and everybody associated with this demo for answers as to why this wasn't running on their platforms. Further exemplifying how big a generational jump this demo was and how jealous they were. Epic chose PS5 because of it's superior storage solution.

When the Minecraft RTX demo came out nobody gave a shit.

What I'm trying to say is while path tracing is the holy grail of graphics, we don't really care because it's just Minecraft. This Epic demo is a lot more exciting. So I flip this on you. Looking at the PS5 UE5 demo which caused much more uproar, what does this mean for XBOX?
While Minecraft RTX is incredible, SEUS shaders (some of them feature Path Tracing) are much more pleasant to the eye. At least IMO.
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
How can they use unreal 5. If Epic are still collaborating & building it with Playstation. Sucks for team green. Playstation even have timed exclusivity on game engines.



Epic isn't building UE5 on the PS5. They are building it with a PC dev machine (like they've always done). Producing that demo for PS5 using UE5 has nothing to do with how they are developing UE5 itself.
 

By-mission

Member
I just read a comment that very well answer your question.



I think that's definitely a possibility on to why the demo wasn't shown on the XSX. Simply because the hardware wasn't ready for it. I mean I haven't seen any games running on the actual console so maybe it was impossible for epic to demo the game on XSX hardware.

Sony partnership aside.

Yes, this is the point ... I am not spreading rumors, but it is something that really makes you think, why not even Craig is running in the Series X, I mean, imagine Mrs. Sony showing God of War in the same conditions and after some time SM says that "this was on the PC" I'm just saying something is wrong ...
Taking advantage of the subject, this silence on the part of Sony is killing me .. I understand perfectly well that they are waiting for Microsoft's moves, it is the great benefit of being in the lead, but they need to be so quiet?
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
Yes, this is the point ... I am not spreading rumors, but it is something that really makes you think, why not even Craig is running in the Series X, I mean, imagine Mrs. Sony showing God of War in the same conditions and after some time SM says that "this was on the PC" I'm just saying something is wrong ...
Taking advantage of the subject, this silence on the part of Sony is killing me .. I understand perfectly well that they are waiting for Microsoft's moves, it is the great benefit of being in the lead, but they need to be so quiet?

Yea, Sony has been too quiet and that bothers me too.
 

Dibils2k

Member
my guess is, since xbox games are releasing on PC too they dont need to rush on it running on series X

where is PS5 games should be running on the dev kit pretty soonish

but this is pure guess work
 

Goncas2

Member
This puts it in to perspective


OX4vS2F.jpg

This is "PS5 struggles with 1080p60" level of stupidity. He's basically assuming that the XSX SSD will be bottlenecked the same way as a PC?

Look, we still don't know to what extent the I/O on the Series X has been engineered to remove bottlenecks (and probably didn't go into the same extend as the PS5), but I think it's safe to assume it will be better than the ancient I/O system on PC.
 
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By-mission

Member
my guess is, since xbox games are releasing on PC too they dont need to rush on it running on series X

where is PS5 games should be running on the dev kit pretty soonish

but this is pure guess work

Looking through this prism makes a lot more sense! This is a great argument, thanks for sharing 🙂
 
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Yes, this is the point ... I am not spreading rumors, but it is something that really makes you think, why not even Craig is running in the Series X, I mean, imagine Mrs. Sony showing God of War in the same conditions and after some time SM says that "this was on the PC" I'm just saying something is wrong ...
Taking advantage of the subject, this silence on the part of Sony is killing me .. I understand perfectly well that they are waiting for Microsoft's moves, it is the great benefit of being in the lead, but they need to be so quiet?
I expect something to happen next week. It may be just an impression, but every week something new about the PS5 appears whether is small things like Accessories’ compatibility, etc. or events/game reveals like SoP. Sony can literally hype the HDMI port reveal... And probably get everyone here and the Internet talking about HDMI the whole week.
 
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DaGwaphics

Member
This puts it in to perspective


OX4vS2F.jpg

This graphic is a great example of how disingenuous that video is, regardless of what side of the fence you are on.

Unless this YT personality is claiming to have direct access to these units, with hands on real-world numbers (risky with NDAs and all that), the graphic is intended to represent the only three numbers we have on the console drives. Not sure how the desktop drive fits in the equation there.

The numbers we have:

Theoretical Max Decompression Performance: PS5 22GB/s XSX 6GB/s
Expected Average Decompression Performance: PS5 9GB/s XSX 4.8GB/s
Raw Throughput (presumably sequential read?): PS5 5.5GB/s XSX 2.4GB/s

This information can not be quantified in the graphic as drawn, no matter how you try and square it.

Just a little pet peeve I have when charts start to get real Trumpian, can't help it.
 
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Thirty7ven

Banned
Aside from a single de-compressor the I/O on the XSX is pretty straightforward by all accounts. MS made a bigger deal out of the name "XVA" than the details themselves, without going into any interesting detail aside from the basics. The only demo they showed was the one where State of Decay takes 11/12 seconds to load, which I think is around the same you get on a 970 evo on PC. Either way it's lackluster.
 
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VFXVeteran

Banned
This graphic is a great example of how disingenuous that video is, regardless of what side of the fence you are on.

Unless this YT personality is claiming to have direct access to these units, with hands on real-world numbers (risky with NDAs and all that), the graphic is intended to represent the only three numbers we have on the console drives. Not sure how the desktop drive fits in the equation there.

The numbers we have:

Theoretical Max Decompression Performance: PS5 22GB/s XSX 6GB/s
Expected Average Decompression Performance: PS5 9GB/s XSX 4.8GB/s
Raw Throughput (presumably sequential read?): PS5 5.5GB/s XSX 2.4GB/s

This information can not be quantified in the graphic as drawn, no matter how you try and square it.

Just a little pet peeve I have when charts start to get real Trumpian, can't help it.

This is a pet peeve of mine too. As we start seeing footage of the PS5, no where is any developer touting the SSD in helping make graphics LOOK better.
 
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ArcaneNLSC

Member
This graphic is a great example of how disingenuous that video is, regardless of what side of the fence you are on.

Unless this YT personality is claiming to have direct access to these units, with hands on real-world numbers (risky with NDAs and all that), the graphic is intended to represent the only three numbers we have on the console drives. Not sure how the desktop drive fits in the equation there.

The numbers we have:

Theoretical Max Decompression Performance: PS5 22GB/s XSX 6GB/s
Expected Average Decompression Performance: PS5 9GB/s XSX 4.8GB/s
Raw Throughput (presumably sequential read?): PS5 5.5GB/s XSX 2.4GB/s

This information can not be quantified in the graphic as drawn, no matter how you try and square it.

Just a little pet peeve I have when charts start to get real Trumpian, can't help it.
He did state this was based on known information until we know exactly what xbox I/O system is to the degree what Cerny explained for the PS5
 

Shmunter

Member
This is a pet peeve of mine too. As we start seeing footage of the PS5, no where is any developer touting the SSD in helping make graphics LOOK better.
Look better, yes. Unlock more GPU rendering, no.

Games can look better because art can be interchanged faster than previously leading to effectively a ram multiplier. But the GPU will always remain within its hardware constraints and low level feature set as you point out. The ssd has no influence over that or effectively creating More GPU.
 
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Darius87

Member
You are thinking at the later stages of the rendering pipeline but ignoring the middle stages where framebuffers have to have discrete pixel resolution to do any lighting/shading on.

RT reflections is the least costly RT feature. It probably only takes up maybe 5% of the overall screen given it's probably bound ONLY on surfaces with high specular contribution. In short, reflections aren't going to be enough to push a game's visuals to new heights (Battlefield 5 had only RT reflections). It will be interesting to see if the consoles will have enough power to implement full GI and ambient occlusion using ray-tracing - which takes up a LOT more of the portion of scene rendering.
wrong again master sensei. unless you see things in reverse.
Road-to-PS5-6.jpg
 
Fast SSD = More developer freedom and less headache = More focus being put on actually designing an interesting world and not on whether they need to hide asset loading or not = Less "just-in-case" assets in memory and more memory to use on shit you will actually definitely see = Better looking games
 

VFXVeteran

Banned
there's no need to know gfx pipelines to see that HFB looks better then HZD otherway sony would not even approve/invest 💰 in the project if guerrilla decided to use last gen HZD decima engine to make sequel.

Ok. I'm going to tell you this and you can take it or leave it. Your choice.

You stating that it subjectively looks better and then assuming that a brand new graphics engine was made in order to make it look better subjectively is about the weakest argument I've ever heard. It shows your extreme bias to want to "MAKE" the game look next-gen just because that's what YOU want.

We can't have a conversation if that's your stance. Graphics engines aren't built all over again just because a new piece of hardware comes onto the scene. You must remember that the tech you are seeing in the next-gen consoles isn't new at all. They have been around for years on the PC from AMD/Nvidia graphics cards. The ONLY claim to new tech hardware is the SSD and it's subsystems. There is literally NO new tech in the GPU end of things. Consoles will ALWAYS be the lowest common denominator concerning graphics tech. You just need to get over in your head that everything Sony makes doesn't mean the latest and greatest in technology in a mere $500 box.

Having said that, HZD looks damn near 100% like HFW. I observe all the shaders, lighting, and geometry. There is literally nothing in HFW that shows it can't be implemented on a PS4 Pro. The only thing we can't see is the SCOPE of the game design for the sequel. That could very well mean it can't run on last-gen. But it's NOT going to be graphics implementations. At least not from the small cinematic that we've seen - which is ALL we can go by.
 
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