• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Next-Gen PS5 & XSX |OT| Console tEch threaD

Status
Not open for further replies.
Metroiddarks

Metroiddarks

Member
ErRor88 said:
Sure if you say so. The vid is speculating that If Ratchet and Clank were considered to be ported over it would not be able to run on the Series X primarily because of the difference in SSD speeds.

MS has stated the SSD on the Series X is sustained and consistent 2.4 GB/s. To say it only uses 60% of the throughput/performance based on PC SSD is FUD.

We don't know what the throughput requirements are for the game and even so. D12U/Direct Storage cuts that requirement in half.
Click to expand...
The sustain is in reference the SSD make in sequential reads only that.

Exists more bottlenecks after you extract the data from the SSD, direct storage helps but is not enough, Sony has make chips plus the all the software
requirement to try to remove as much is possible.

Also until we don't heard any dev say "wow the SSD technology of XSX is soo incredible", is much better than the current gen yes but if you want to compare
against the PS5 well you are talking two very different things, if you want know more instead read PR talks Cerny has I think a video where talk for many
time about the SSD I think you know it.

I am not agree with the video because is just too speculative using number which are not based in the dev kits for obvious reasons.
 
Neo Blaster

Neo Blaster

Member
ErRor88 said:
Sure if you say so. The vid is speculating that If Ratchet and Clank were considered to be ported over it would not be able to run on the Series X primarily because of the difference in SSD speeds.

MS has stated the SSD on the Series X is sustained and consistent 2.4 GB/s. To say it only uses 60% of the throughput/performance based on PC SSD is FUD.

We don't know what the throughput requirements are for the game and even so. D12U/Direct Storage cuts that requirement in half.
Click to expand...
I agree the video probably didn't account for VA's bottlenecks mitigation, but stop quoting those PR statements, that's just ridiculous. Blame MS for not doing a better explanation about VA like Cerny did with PS5 SSD/I/O.
 
Nickolaidas

Nickolaidas

Member
Metroiddarks

Metroiddarks

Member
Vaztu said:
Great to hear back from you BG. Specially after the 8-2 hammering yesterday.

Don't worry you still have next-gen consoles to look forward to.
Click to expand...
After that match I was
giphy.gif
 
Lunatic_Gamer

Lunatic_Gamer

Gold Member
Xbox Boss: Our Approach Isn't About Selling More Consoles Than PS5

We want people to feel like they're a member of Xbox. And that membership in Xbox isn't about one device, it can be multiple devices.
I want to have a great experience on the television and I think Xbox Series X is absolutely going to deliver that and I'm incredibly excited by the lineup of games that we're building, but it is a fundamental difference than the traditional console war as people talk about.
'How many consoles do I sell versus how many consoles does another company sell' - Sony or Nintendo or other companies back in the day - we're just not...that's not our approach."
Click to expand...

If [the traditional console war] was our approach, we wouldn't put our games on PC, we wouldn't put our games on Xbox One, we wouldn't do xCloud and allow people to play games on their phones.
And I'm not disparaging someone else's approach, but when I talk to fans and customers, what I say is when you're a member of Xbox, we want to build the experience around you."
Click to expand...

www.purexbox.com

Xbox Boss: Our Approach Isn't About Selling More Consoles Than PS5

"It is a fundamental difference than the traditional console war"
www.purexbox.com www.purexbox.com

🤣😂🤣
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Nickolaidas said:
I get what he's saying though. He's saying that MS is getting your dollar, whether you buy an XSX or not, as long as you buy MS games or subscribe to Game Pass.
Click to expand...
Yeah but his take lacks the understanding of subtraction. If they sell less boxes, they make less money. Not more.

His entire take could be argued the same if people also bought Xboxes. Its quite dumb. It’d be like saying “Sony doesn’t care if you buy a PS5 because they sell TVs and headphones too!” It’s misunderstanding basic math.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
geordiemp said:
I stopped reading when he called Halo a killer app.
Click to expand...
He’s somehow pretending that a corporation doesn’t want every customer to buy every product they sell. That’s all these business care about. Maximize revenue, minimize expenses, grow profits. That’s it. Their dream is everyone buys all their shit multiple times.

Anyone who thinks a business is like “hey it’s fine don’t buy our shit” and has some 4D chess move planned is a fool. They want your money. All of it.
 
The Mad Draklor

The Mad Draklor

Member
kyliethicc said:
He’s somehow pretending that a corporation doesn’t want every customer to buy every product they sell. That’s all these business care about. Maximize revenue, minimize expenses, grow profits. That’s it. Their dream is everyone buys all their shit multiple times.

Anyone who thinks a business is like “hey it’s fine don’t buy our shit” and has some 4D chess move planned is a fool. They want your money. All of it.
Click to expand...
Also, if you buy an XSX, Microsoft will reap the most revenue if you buy AC: Valhalla or COD on their store (barring buying physical copies). However, if you buy AC: Valhalla or COD on PC, you're getting those games on Ubisoft's storefront or Steam. Microsoft isn't getting that money.
 
OrionNebula

OrionNebula

Member
VFXVeteran said:
I look for things in graphics tech. Things that will push gaming forward to CG. A "1-take" is a game design strategy not a graphics technical feature.
Click to expand...

To each their own I guess. I just am quite surprised about your opinion about those GoW graphics. What would you consider like really impressive, visually, in the same gaming context (Flight Simulator is very nice but we’re in a totally different approach of visuals, obviously; The Order 1886 is also great for characters, animations & clothing but environments are so damn restricted and static)?

As for my ‘’1-take’’ comment, I said ‘’with that quality of visuals’’, meaning it’s an impressive feat in itself, but they did it with THOSE graphics to boot (visually impressive+technically impressive)

Different strokes for different folks I guess...
 
FranXico

FranXico

Member
VFXVeteran said:
This is reality in rendering.

When you hit an object with an eye ray cast into the scene, you go through the BRDF to determine 3 main components:

Diffuse + Specular (Reflection/Refraction) + emission. The real world has no ambient term. The first thing is that every material has a diffuse term. That is, it scatters light evenly in all directions. A specular term would only apply to surface that bounce light back to your eye within a threshold along the true reflected ray.

1. There are more materials that scatter light evenly than materials that scatter light in a concentrated cone (i.e. specular).

2. When evaluating a diffuse + specular term, you have to not only compute rays towards a light source for direct lighting but also rays that have bounced light onto your object as well (this is global illumination).

3. The specular term (i.e. reflections) aren't on most objects. In real life we don't see mirrored surfaces all over the place. These surfaces are like gold, copper, plastic, etc.. But the mirror surfaces ALSO have diffuse on them.

In short, computing GI rays will apply everywhere on every object. Reflection rays are only on surfaces that show reflection. By deduction, it proves that GI is more expensive than reflections. NOTE: this has nothing to do with getting rid of noise in reflections (which adds another complexity). Since a game will have far fewer reflective surfaces, GI will be more expensive assuming the number of rays cast are equal.

Mirror reflections are very easy because you don't need to blur them. It will require only 1 ray to get a perfect mirror. This is not reality except for perfect mirrors. Not metals.



That is correct. IF and only IF you go for pure GI. If you go for ambient occlusion only, you can get away with not having to evaluate a shader on another object when you determine that it's occluding your material. AO only needs a scalar value. What's the average occlusion value given a set of rays cast around a hemisphere. In GI, you need to ask the question, not only how many objects are occluding but what is their average color. This requires evaluating another shader on another object.

GI is more expensive.
Click to expand...
More posts like this please. Nice and informative.
 
kyliethicc

kyliethicc

Member
Quazar77 said:
To each their own I guess. I just am quite surprised about your opinion about those GoW graphics. What would you consider like really impressive, visually, in the same gaming context (Flight Simulator is very nice but we’re in a totally different approach of visuals, obviously; The Order 1886 is also great for characters, animations & clothing but environments are so damn restricted and static)?

As for my ‘’1-take’’ comment, I said ‘’with that quality of visuals’’, meaning it’s an impressive feat in itself, but they did it with THOSE graphics to boot (visually impressive+technically impressive)

Different strokes for different folks I guess...
Click to expand...
Don’t bother man, he never even played the game. He seems fairly disingenuous, just wait til he can play it on PC at 30Hz. Then it’ll be great.
 
M

Moridianae

Member
I'm so sad to see Halo fall like this. It really was a joy to play in my college days and it deserves better. We used to win all the campus tournaments. Now it's time for a fun Halo story:

My buddy and I would often play Halo online via XBConnect, which if you remember, had a MASSIVE host advantage for tricking it into online play.

We once played 2v2 against some people from near us. We lost, but only barely. We figured host advantage. My buddy didn't buy the loss, so he asked them where they were from and challenged them.

I used to make jokes that anyone we lost to were basement dwellers and lived off Vanilla Coke and Doritos.

The day comes and we go to meet them for a LAN game. We knock on the door and this kid dressed in black, hair matted to his skull and very unkempt greets us. My buddy just turned and looked at me.

We played, got our asses whipped, then the people came in and said "Let's break a bit. You guys want any vanilla coke or doritos?"

My buddy leapt up and said "Nah were gonna head out, man, thanks. And off we went. The drive back to campus was silent until he grabbed me by the arm when we got back and in a disbelieving, panicked tone said "THEY DO EXIST."


The ending of this story was I ended up being dragged by them to a Halo LAN tournament(back then MLG). While there, I saw a guy jamming to a CD player while playing.

I said it was cool he listened to music to focus. He remarked it was a CD he burned recording his own voice announcing weapon respawn times.


I never did eSports ever again.
 
Last edited:
Varnish La PS

Varnish La PS

Member
FranXico said:
More posts like this please. Nice and informative.
Click to expand...
FranXico said:
Oh it was clear that they will be working on the engine and fix fundamentals.
Content will be coming piecemeal, but that always was the plan anyway.

MS is going to have their Killzone 2 moment, I think. Halo fans, it will be worth it.
Click to expand...
More posts like this please. Funny and imaginary.
 
Last edited:
MasterCornholio

MasterCornholio

Member
geordiemp said:
So timestamped, says XSX is supposed to be US$ 599



You tubers and journalists, only person that decides for real is phil.

My guess has always been XSX $ 599, Ps5 US$ 550 to 500 , DE US$ 450 to 400
Click to expand...


What always made sense to me is that Microsoft is releasing the Series S because the Series X would be priced much higher. In order to lower the barrier if entry to gamepass they really need a cheap system on the market.

Now let's assume the Series X is 399$ and the PS5 DE is 499$ and above. What is the point of the Series S undercutting the most powerful system on the market if that system is already undercutting the competitors?

I'm still in the 499$ camp for both high end systems though with the DE being the cheapest SKU.
 
Killer Sakoman

Killer Sakoman

Member
Lunatic_Gamer said:
Xbox Boss: Our Approach Isn't About Selling More Consoles Than PS5





www.purexbox.com

Xbox Boss: Our Approach Isn't About Selling More Consoles Than PS5

"It is a fundamental difference than the traditional console war"
www.purexbox.com www.purexbox.com

🤣😂🤣
Click to expand...
The problem with Spencer is that no matter what you selling ( hardware, service, what ever), it needs content. Why would I invest in Microsoft if all they have is either 3rd party or 1st party games that doesn't differentiate itself from 3rd party. How could MMO fable attract gamers to the microsoft platform when the market is full of AAA MMOs such as FF and ESO? How are they gonna attract fps games fans when Halo is Craig?
Thevquestion is: what would happen if Sony put their games on PC and introduces Sony Pass, who is gonna be destroyed?
 
SSfox

SSfox

Member
JonnyMP3 said:
Goddamn it!
I MISS PETER MOORE!!!!!!
Click to expand...

Playing Bioshock, Mass Effect and specially Ninja Gaiden 2 on the Hot Summer on XBox 360, good old Xbox days.

I think Kinect was the beginning of the end of Xbox brand, after that moment it's been just disappointment after another, Scalebound cancellation, Halo/Forza/Gears trio Overdose, Gamepass screaming all day, actually i would have forgotten they exist if it's not websites that quote them.
 
T

Three Jackdaws

Unconfirmed Member
MasterCornholio said:
What always made sense to me is that Microsoft is releasing the Series S because the Series X would be priced much higher. In order to lower the barrier if entry to gamepass they really need a cheap system on the market.

Now let's assume the Series X is 399$ and the PS5 DE is 499$ and above. What is the point of the Series S undercutting the most powerful system on the market if that system is already undercutting the competitors?

I'm still in the 499$ camp for both high end systems though with the DE being the cheapest SKU.
Click to expand...
I've been trying to say this for a while now, I don't understand why Microsoft would try to price the Series X so competitively against the PS5 if Lockhart/Series S exists.

Although, there was a comment from Phill about how they don't want to be beaten on price and power but I cannot seem to find it, although there was another quote I found in which he stated

“If you remember at the launch of Xbox One, we were $100 more expensive and less powerful. So, I won’t be in that position. There’s no doubt about that. As an industry that’s growing so fast, we do think about price. We do think about performance as well. I’m not going to sacrifice performance for the sake of price.”
Click to expand...

I wouldn't take Phill's words as Bible especially if we are judging from what has happened in recent weeks.
 
sircaw

sircaw

Banned
Nickolaidas said:
Yeah ok, let's believe a random nobody on 4chan because 343i would totally come out and say how mismanaged this game has been thus far.

This was obviously written by a ps fanboy and isn't any different from the FUD Dusk was spreading.
Click to expand...

I hope they spend at least 6 months polishing/ fixing it, tbh even longer to get the best out of it.
When is the best time to release a game like that, i don't know?
 
Last edited:
Empire Strikes Back

Empire Strikes Back

Member
A bit late, but on the Ratchet & Clank topic, I don’t think XSX could really run Rift Apart. We’ve seen the game has some hiccups and a small loading mask when they are between dimensions. XSX would just worsen this loading time and hiccups, and you could might as well put an elevator to mask the loading (just joking, but you get the point). Does this mean that both SSDs are trash? No, it’s the beginning of a new gen and the game is in pre-alpha state. I expect those hiccups to be gone from the retail version, but the masking loading to stay. The impression I get it’s that Insomniac is literally brute-forcing the loading because the SSD is so fast, but when optmizations happen later on the generation, like GoT loading, that shit is going to fly. Then you wonder how could this run with a drive with half the speed... (assuming everything is raw because we can’t really have compression figures)

All in all... Is the SSD on Xbox bad? Not at all. What they have done to reduce CPU overhead and the drive itself is a really nice thing. Is it on PS5 level of insanity? Nope.

But we should commend developers like Insomniac and Japan Studio (Team Asobi) for pushing this next gen tech early on, even if brute-forcing a little or getting too gimmicky. Without them, those speeds don’t matter because we get stuck on the lowest common denominator and everyone loses.
 
Last edited:
geordiemp

geordiemp

Member
SSfox said:
Playing Bioshock, Mass Effect and specially Ninja Gaiden 2 on the Hot Summer on XBox 360, good old Xbox days.

I think Kinect was the beginning of the end of Xbox brand, after that moment it's been just disappointment after another, Scalebound cancellation, Halo/Forza/Gears trio Overdose, Gamepass screaming all day, actually i would have forgotten they exist if it's not websites that quote them.
Click to expand...
#
I was a 360 gamer as well, big gaiden fan and mass effect. Good days. Xbox one made me throw up.
 
Last edited:
Killer Sakoman

Killer Sakoman

Member
Killer Sakoman said:
The problem with Spencer is that no matter what you selling ( hardware, service, what ever), it needs content. Why would I invest in Microsoft if all they have is either 3rd party or 1st party games that doesn't differentiate itself from 3rd party. How could MMO fable attract gamers to the microsoft platform when the market is full of AAA MMOs such as FF and ESO? How are they gonna attract fps games fans when Halo is Craig?
Thevquestion is: what would happen if Sony put their games on PC and introduces Sony Pass, who is gonna be destroyed?
Click to expand...
Also, how come people buy his services when they don't buy XsX? Does he expect people to stick to their Xones for another 6 years? Does he think those people on phones are interested in playing full console games through the cloud? The Vita already proved that mobile gamers don't want console experience. Anyone who tried the shitty mobile games will figure out why non-gamers play them and why a real console game will fail on mobile.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

AMD RDNA 5 To Be A Completely New GPU Architecture From The Ground Up, RDNA 4 Mostly Fixes RDNA 3 Issues & Improves Ray Tracing
News Rumor Hardware 2 3
128
7K
SoloCamo replied
Was 8 CPU cores enough for 9th gen consoles? Strix Halo, the prefect console.
Opinion Analysis 2
62
4K
Tertullian replied
Tom Warren - Sony’s PS5 Pro is real and Sony is asking developers to get games ready over the summer, with a push for ray-tracing support
News Hardware Hype 2 3 4
186
16K
DanielG165 replied
Report: Upcoming 'Turin' Zen 5 CPUs will support 4TB of RAM at 6000 MT/s
Rumor Hardware
43
3K
OverHeat replied
Leak - Zen 5 is now in mass production, release in late 2024
Hardware 2
61
6K
CuteFaceJay replied
Top Bottom