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[MasterCornholio]

Also faster for smaller random reads having more channels.

It would be interesting to compare the pricing of the 12 smaller NAND chips...

I read somewhere that the controller on the Xbox has to choose one chip over the other while the PS5s can access them all at one due to each one having its own channel.

 

[THE:MILKMAN]

Internal channels connect the flash to the controller. External lanes of PCIe connect the entire drive to the SOC. Both can affect the raw bandwdith in different ways.

4 lanes of PCIe Gen4 allow for up to 8 GB/s, 2 lanes allows for up to 4 GB/s. The XSX SSD only needs 2 lanes of PCIe Gen 4.

The PS5 SSD has 12 internal channels, and then uses 4 lanes of PCIe 4.0 to connect the controller to the SOC. We think it has 12 flash dies (1 per channel) but thats not offically confimed yet. (But is probably true.) Cerny said 8 channels wasnt enough to hit their goal of 5 GB/s (probably due to cost limits.)

The XSX SSD has 2 lanes of PCIe 4 for the built-in SSD, and then 2 more lanes for the Expansion Card. We dont know how many internal channels the main drive or expnasion card have. Doesnt really matter, most likely is 4. All that matters is its 2.4 GB/s raw.

The slide from the XSX hot chips presentation showing it has 8x lanes of PCIe Gen4 at its I/O hub is confusing. I have no idea what the other 4 would be for, maybe the disc drive? Idk. Becaue in later slides, they make it very clear that each drive (the internal and the expansion card) only use 2 lanes each.

Thanks for the clear explanation. I thought I had finally understood how it all worked and then that 8x in the Microsoft slide threw me off again...

 

[kyliethicc]

My guess about the SSD in XSX is 4 chips per channel, 1:4.

The XSX seems to just be using 2 or 4 large density NAND dies. I doubt they are using 16 NAND dies in a drive this small. They are probably just buying larger density chips.

Their SSD looks like its 22 x 30 mm (like a M.2). It proably has 4 internal channels and then uses 2 lanes of PCIe Gen 4.

Looks like both are the same size, speed, and density. Probably both made by Seagate.

 

[onQ123]

For the people wondering how a adjustable clock can be better it's because you can keep the work moving smoothly without stalling.

 

[Daniel_Mallorca1985]

 

[kyliethicc]

So PS5 having one channel per chip allows the controller to access all chips at once? Which is an advantage over the XSXs 1 channel per 4 chips.

Its sorta like RAM. The flash dies have a set speed. Faster NAND has more bandwidth but costs more. More channels adds bandwidth too. So Sony clearly are using 12 channels because at whatever speed NAND they are buying, 8 channels didnt get them to 5 GB/s.

 

[geordiemp]

I read somewhere that the controller on the Xbox has to choose one chip over the other while the PS5s can access them all at one due to each one having its own channel.

I thought the XSX just had 2 NAND chips ? Not paid too much attention to XSX NAND....

At the end of the day, ps5 just has a wider bus effectively to NAND, Much wider and all the extra processing IO to back it up. XSX has a fall back when its late...Goosen

Bespoke hardware within the GPU is available to smooth the transition between mips, on the off-chance that the higher quality texture arrives a frame or two later

 

[Thirty7ven]

No cross play for FIFA, Xbox is dead in Europe before the gen even started.

 

[TrippleA345]

I'm assuming that this helps with it's speed? Just trying to understand why it's so fast compared to what the Xbox has.

The Reason why the PS5 SSD is faster, is because they have More Channels to get Data from the Chips. If Microsoft would have, for example 8 Channels, their SSD would also be faster than 2.4 Gb/s.
When we assuming they have 4 Channels for 4 Chips, and you will have to get Data from 2 Chips from one Channel, then you will have a bit Latency issues, cause you can only get Data from 1 Chip per Channel, not 2 simultaneously.
You know, but the real interesting Part is after the SSD. The Path from the SSD to Ram.

 

[Lunatic_Gamer]

Another headset that will work on PS5, TB Stealth 600 Gen 2

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www.turtlebeach.com

 

[yewles1]

YOU WANT FUCKING INSULTS I WILL..........................................

chill dude, dudette.

Let me sooth your inner beast

sing with me.

At this rate, you're gonna be considered both Hootie AND The Blowfish.

 

[MasterCornholio]

Its sorta like RAM. The flash dies have a set speed. Faster NAND has more bandwidth but costs more. More channels adds bandwidth too. So Sony clearly are using 12 channels because at whatever speed NAND they are buying, 8 channels didnt get them to 5 GB/s.

Ok so they could have gone with faster NAND to achieve that speed with less channels. But they didn't because they can reach the same results with slower NAND and more channels. Which is cheaper for them to do.

I wonder where the expensive part of the SSD comes in?

Just trying to figure out why it might be more expensive than the XSXs.

 

[MasterCornholio]

get Data from 2 Chips from one Channel

That's what I heard about the controller having to choose which chip to get the data from.

Thank you it makes more sense.

 

[kyliethicc]

This is just a random 1 TB M.2 NVMe SSD, PCIe 4.0, but its construcuton might be similar to the SSD in the XSX.

It uses a larger form factor than the XSX SSD, but it has a Phison controller and 4x 256 GB TLC NAND dies from Toshiba. It also has 2x DRAM chips on there, but ignore that. (The XSX and PS5 dont have additonal DRAM in their SSDs.)

I assume if the XSX has 4 internal channels, it might also be using 4x 256 GB NAND chips. Or 2 512 GB chips.

 

[TrippleA345]

Ok so they could have gone with faster NAND to achieve that speed with less channels. But they didn't because they can reach the same results with slower NAND and more channels. Which is cheaper for them to do.

I wonder where the expensive part of the SSD comes in?

Just trying to figure out why it might be more expensive than the XSXs.

Cause of the channels.
In the worst case, the PS5 SSD is $ 30 more expensive.
You also have to differentiate between reading and writing speed. The PS5 SSD will most likely have a significantly lower write speed. Is not so important for the console whether 5.5 or 2.0 writing speed. There is hardly any use in games to write to the SSD

 

[sircaw]

At this rate, you're gonna be considered both Hootie AND The Blowfish.

been trying to relax people all day, i think i might of failed.

 

[Lysandros]

PS5 has the advantage in Pixel fill rate & triangle rendering plus faster internal cache.

Also in assync compute i guess since the ace blocks run %20 faster?

 

[TrippleA345]

This is just a random 1 TB M.2 NVMe SSD, PCIe 4.0, but its construcuton might be similar to the SSD in the XSX.

It uses a larger form factor than the XSX SSD, but it has a Phison controller and 4x 256 GB TLC NAND dies from Toshiba. It also has 2x DRAM chips on there, but ignore that. (The XSX and PS5 dont have additonal DRAM in their SSDs.)

I assume if the XSX has 4 internal channels, it might also be using 4x 256 GB NAND chips. Or 2 512 GB chips.

Could be, yes.

 

[IntentionalPun]

Sorry if I lost my shit earlier.

Spoiler

I have a legit anxiety issue, I get really frustrated when people aren't understanding me, telling me I don't understand things that I do, etc. and it's hard for me not to sound unhinged

 

[Moridianae]

I read somewhere that Sony's playlist was updated, indicating a new State of Play may be imminent soon.

I wonder if it's the 26th. Sony and CoD usually cross promote these days. If so, they may announce it tomorrow or even over the weekend.

Yeah, typically they follow a pattern, but nothing makes sense these days. We're rapidly approaching September with no ability to pre-order yet. Whew.

 

[sircaw]

Sorry if I lost my shit earlier.

Spoiler

I have a legit anxiety issue, I get really frustrated when people aren't understanding me, telling me I don't understand things that I do, etc. and it's hard for me not to sound unhinged

i hope you sang that song i linked you earlier, for your rage.

 

[kyliethicc]

Ok so they could have gone with faster NAND to achieve that speed with less channels. But they didn't because they can reach the same results with slower NAND and more channels. Which is cheaper for them to do.

I wonder where the expensive part of the SSD comes in?

Just trying to figure out why it might be more expensive than the XSXs.

Well its all really expensive haha. Sony will have to buy lots of very fast NAND and then build lots of custom silicon around it. Its likely that Sony is buying less dense, but muhc faster, chips of NAND than Microsoft bought for their console.

That would probably still be more expensive for Sony than Microsoft. Same as why neither company is buying 16 Gbps GDDR6. Clearly the added bandwidth is not worth the added cost. So they both stick with 14 Gbps GDDR6.

I imagine both are buying the lowest density and slowest NAND they can to hit their speeds. Sony sacrificed some overall drive size (825 vs 1000) and added channels and PCIe lanes to hit their goal.

So Sony is buying more lanes of PCIe, more internal channels, and more NAND dies that are each also faster. All adds cost.

But Microsoft was clearly designing their SSD for Lockhart (Series S) so cost had to be limited. And they wanted to spend more on their big 12 TF GPU for XSX. They also make every game for PC too, so no point in making a SSD faster than PCs.

 

[dr guildo]

I simply don’t get this way of thinking. The XsX can run at its max clocks all the time. On a leveled playing field Variable clocks can’t match fixed max clocks.

If XsX had variable clocks, its GPU clock could maybe go up to 2Ghz or beyond, couldn't it ?

 

[TrippleA345]

Well its all really expensive haha. Sony will have to buy lots of very fast NAND and then build lots of custom silicon around it. Its likely that Sony is buying less dense, but muhc faster, chips of NAND than Microsoft bought for their console.

That would probably still be more expensive for Sony than Microsoft. Same as why neither company is buying 16 Gbps GDDR6. Clearly the added bandwidth is not worth the added cost. So they both stick with 14 Gbps GDDR6.

I imagine both are buying the lowest density and slowest NAND they can to hit their speeds. Sony sacrificed some overall drive size (825 vs 1000) and added channels and PCIe lanes to hit their goal.

So Sony is buying more lanes of PCIe, more internal channels, and more NAND dies that are each also faster. All adds cost.

But Microsoft was clearly designing their SSD for Lockhart (Series S) so cost had to be limited. And they wanted to spend more on their big 12 TF GPU for XSX. They also make every game for PC too, so no point in making a SSD faster than PCs.

Absolutely correct, well done.

 

[zaitsu]

If XsX had variable clocks, its GPU clock could maybe go up to 2Ghz or beyond, couldn't it ?

Probably yes.

 

[TrippleA345]

If XsX had variable clocks, its GPU clock could maybe go up to 2Ghz or beyond, couldn't it ?

Variable Fréquence is Part of AMD SmartShift. If they had Implemented it they could get higher Frequency.

 

[jimbojim]

If XsX had variable clocks, its GPU clock could maybe go up to 2Ghz or beyond, couldn't it ?

Yep. But cooling solution would be different and also PSU designed with thermal control.

 

[lepermessiah]

That hot chips thread though, 18% TFs is "significantly more powerful" fam Forget the I/O I am authority.

 

[MasterCornholio]

But Microsoft was clearly designing their SSD for Lockhart (Series S) so cost had to be limited

Dang so Lockhart could be holding the XSXs I/O back due to cost issues.

I never thought of it that way but it makes sense because both have to have the same I/O.

 

[IntentionalPun]

i hope you sang that song i linked you earlier, for your rage.

I petted my cat.

 

[saintjules]

I know some don't like the guy, but some interesting talk on the Series S. Timestamped. Neo Blaster another way to look at the S in the existence.

 

[sircaw]

I petted my cat.

playing with a pussy does relieve stress.

It's like an old joke i remember from when i was ten or something.

Better to have a pussy on your organ than a dead dog on your piano.

Yer i was 10.

 

[Snowdonhoffen]

That hot chips thread though, 18% TFs is "significantly more powerful" fam Forget the I/O I am authority.

Let them be, those must be the same dudes who think high clocks and overclocking are the same thing.

 

[MasterCornholio]

I petted my cat.

 

[Gamernyc78]

i hope you sang that song i linked you earlier, for your rage.

Sircaw what's your fav Song? Karma chameleon by Boy George?

 

[Gamernyc78]

That hot chips thread though, 18% TFs is "significantly more powerful" fam Forget the I/O I am authority.

Thy are going to be in for a Rude awakening when ps5 drops its going to do wonders imo.

 

[sircaw]

reading through some of the Microsoft hot chips forum posts.

I find it really sad, all they really care about it the multiplay comparisons.

ITs almost like they don't actually play games, that's all they are invested in.

They have all their eggs in that basket, all their hopes, their dreams, like it really means something to them.

Little difference that people will not notice while they play.
sigh, so sad

 

[sircaw]

Sircaw what's your fav Song? Karma chameleon by Boy George?

this is one of my all-time favs



i used to sing it on my way to church.

 

[sircaw]

dedicated to Gamernyc78



One of geordiemp favs

 

[Gamernyc78]

dedicated to Gamernyc78



One of geordiemp favs

I picture you singing this after your big fights

 

[Aceofspades]

What he said is exactly what Matt said over at Era. I'd trust Matt more than these other 'insiders' since Matt got all the stuff about PS4 x XBO right (wayyy before launch)

Forget about Matt, its what CERNY said at the presentation!

 

[sircaw]

I picture you singing this after your big fights

right, I have been going easy on you. Now, just like that Jack reacher film, remember, you asked for this.

This is not my fault. i tired to be gentle but you made me bring out the big guns.

This is for you Big boy. 50 seconds in, eat your heart out

 

[Gamernyc78]

right, I have been going easy on you. Now, just like that Jack reacher film, remember, you asked for this.

This is not my fault. i tired to be gentle but you made me bring out the big guns.

This is for you Big boy. 50 seconds in, eat your heart out

You found this fast you must have had this in your Playlist

 

[sircaw]

You found this fast you must have had this in your Playlist

I have your spotify profile

 

[Gamernyc78]

I have your spotify profile

Whose yurr? Your partner? Tmi. Give him back his profile.

 

[zaitsu]

Yesterday I gave my two lifetime PCMR friends (2080TI playing lol, cod and some major games like RDR2 once a year) dualshock and let them throw an axe in GOW for couple of minutes. They were amazed how good it looked and played. And now they are buying PS5 to play PS4 exclusive games.

I think that many PC people can just buy PS5 because its finally isn't current gen crap hardware and can play some best games ever made.

 

[Aceofspades]

Sorry if already posted, just saw this pop up

If those prices ended up being true then XSS will be the most useless and overpriced device in history

 

[Leo_Barcellos]

Oh fuck...

 

[sircaw]

Whose yurr? Your partner? Tmi. Give him back his profile.

one last song before i retire for the night to go watch Ozark

Dedicated to you. AGAIN

 

[zubairali2]

since there are some good songs being posted here, i might aswell give a suggestion