InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
It effects reaction time whether you acknowledge it or not. It's frame-rate going that low in a game not designed around the slowdown is bad no matter how you slice it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Nier 2 announced (Square Enix, Yoko Taro, Platinum Games, Akihiko Yoshida, PS4)
- Thread starter ZhugeEX
- Start date
- Status
Reverend Funk
Comfy Penetration
This being announced was so wacky. Like, who could have ever guessed that this would happen.
zeopower6
Member
This entire E3 was like fanfiction imo
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
It was dreams coming true!
This is a great way of putting it. Not that I'm complaining.
Here is what you were searching for:
"-1300 years later vs. 1400 years later. To counter the widespread disease, souls - Gestalts - were pulled out of bodies and put into Replicants. By changing the role of the Replicant, they can ensure the repeated survival of their souls. Replicant and Gestalt are not parallel worlds. But are distinct patterns in an ever-repeating world. The main character and Yonah are sometimes siblings, and sometimes father and daughter. The difference in time changes reflects that."
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vEP2iZ52P-DWhQBQ2Is6R8Wjao99AGi0YuWShTvA-tA/preview#
Page 86.
qualitydisc
Member
Oh jeezz... Is Swery jealous that Yoko might actually get a decent budget this time around?
"Weirdo Japanese auteur director calls out rival weirdo Japanese auteur director as 'sleazy,' News at 11"
I love them both. I don't want to see Mom and Dad fight ;-;
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I dont care in what capacity it is but Emil better be in this game.
Enemies in Drakengard 3 have the world's biggest wind-ups. Reaction time is almost never a factor as much as simply knowing how to fight an enemy.
If anything, the awful enemy design is the part that kills drakengard 3 (although I still love it)
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Drakengard 3 is the best game NO ONE played lol
I'd agree with Swery on Drakengard 3 being sleazy. I never liked that game at all, and I was pretty glad to see it end. Platinumed it with a :/ on my face. The rest of the series though? Get outta here Swery.
Nah. Trace memory, hotel dusk, etc... I want to see more talk on games like those rather than seeing threads that lament their sales.
Nah. Trace memory, hotel dusk, etc... I want to see more talk on games like those rather than seeing threads that lament their sales.
I don't see how it's more sleezy than Bayonetta, a game that is almost universally praised for having a strongly independent sexy protagonist. But somehow zero doesn't get a pass because she actually talks about and has sex, I guess.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
Zero makes Bayonetta look like a trashy whore by comparison lol
The way drakengard 3 treats sex was one of the best parts of the game imho, the majority of the time it just felt natural, something you rarely in games.
He's free to state his opinion but yes...pot meet kettle.
Bayonetta is pretty divisive in terms of how her character is portrayed. I adore her though.
See, Drakengard 3 isn't what I expected at all. I didn't know what it was going for in terms of tone half the time and the music didn't really stand out to me. It's not because of zero or anything because I like her character. It's just that the game itself was, imo, ass to me. I went in with hopes of something like drakengard 1 but expected something like drakengard 2 and I can see why I would be disappointed. Yoko Taro does things differently with each game and it didn't click with me this time.
Not to mention the way that sex is handled in that game is mind numbing at times.
HOO HOO I HAVE A GIANT PENIS. WIGGITY WIGGITY WHO GOT THE BOOTY.
I didn't see sex in drakengard 3 like that at all. Maybe it's just because I'm used to how I talk with my girlfriends about our sex lives. But, compared to a game like bayonetta where sex is "all look, no substance" like it's entirely used as a show for others to oogle, it was refreshing and interesting that the game is almost no show and all substance. Often times it's not even traditionally sexy, sometimes it's a bit gross, sometimes zero plays coy. It's all more nuanced than I expected it to be.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
THIS THIS THIS
I mean in DG3 everything is so upfront, everyone is horny, everyone thinks about sex and fucking and depravity and is great.
Bayonetta is OHH SEXY POSE OH PHALLIC LICKING OF A GUN OH IM NAKED BUT YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING BECA-
*swallowed by dragon*
Bayonetta's more a queen of tease than anything else and I'm down with that. She's fun, exuding immense amounts of confidence, and in control of any situation that she's in. Sex isn't even a part of the problem that I have against drakengard 3. It's just something that I chalk up to drakengard as a series and go 'well that's that isn't it'. I enjoy how fucking weird drakengard is, from the pedophile party member to a former messenger of the old gods who's now a party member. It's just that 3 came out to be this weird mess of a game that I had little enjoyment playing.
I also never brought up sex as a talking point problem.
She never licks a phallus or does anything with a phallus shaped symbol. Kamiya made sure that never happened. She's confident in everything she does. She's actually pretty cool and you can really feel how kickass she is in game.
drakengard 3 doesn't have a very clear tone/theme it sends and doesn't use the medium in any way that would impress those onto a player
IMO its a serious outlier for taro's work, especially given how it's hard to shake that "half baked" feeling that pervades every aspect of the game, even the characters
like the supplemental detail about zeros past pre-flower adds a lot to her character but its never really brought or used ingame so you never get to see the core idea behind her character even explored
IMO its a serious outlier for taro's work, especially given how it's hard to shake that "half baked" feeling that pervades every aspect of the game, even the characters
like the supplemental detail about zeros past pre-flower adds a lot to her character but its never really brought or used ingame so you never get to see the core idea behind her character even explored
How is "queen of tease" not simply just another phrase for softcore porn figure? What's different between bayonetta and looking at a softcore porn magazine? It's voyeuristic. She isn't "exuding immense confidence and in control" she is posing for the camera.
She isn't a real person, so saying she has agency has to be accompanied by a demonstration of her choice, but the game doesn't go into that. She doesn't talk about or justify why she is and dresses the way she is, she simply is because she is made that way by someone else. I find that sort of expression unsubstantive and voyeuristic, which in itself isn't agency.
Zero is different because she's never really explicitly posed for the cameras like Bayonetta. But, she expresses her agency as a sexual person (or character) by discussing her tastes, and likes and dislikes. Also, the game doesn't shy away from being straightforward about her as a person including parts that may be construed as gross, such as when she is on her period.
Not comparing them as whether they're necessarily "good or bad characters" in itself, but as characters who are hinged on a theme of sexual empowerment Zero expresses herself as a person with a choice in how she engages sexually, while bayonetta is simply assumed simply because she's the protagonist without ever actually substantiating her choice. This leads me to believe she is just eye-candy for the viewer.
Like you said yourself: bayonetta is a tease for the camera and viewer, and is entirely concerned with looking good for the viewer at all times in all actions. Zero is not presented that way, she delves into stuff the viewer may find gross or unpleasant, and that gives her more expression in agency because this means it's not FOR the viewer, it's for herself.
EDIT: Also, you're incorrect, Bayonetta is constantly seen licking and sucking on lollipops. It's even one of her primary items. It's a theme which is creepy in that it's traditionally used in this context to overlay sexuality on top of innocent youthful imagery (really gross)
I guess it's a part of perspective, I find Zero to be more of a woman's sexual character, while Bayonetta just plays sexy for the viewer.
TheChillyAcademic
Member
I suppose in the end it has more to do with fan service then doesn't it? Does the camera have to zip around her whole body and right underneath her vag? Her hair is her magic or whatever so as she uses it she slowly becomes naked, okay, clever.
Bayonetta is an awesome character but she's also kinda trashy lol
Half baked is a pretty good term for what I thought 3 was. The supplemental material for taro's works is really neat and I was sad to see that nothing really gets brought up. I didn't know what the game was doing. At one point zero is aware that she's in a video game, next moment you're killing a sister. Then Accord plays grab hands with zero's breasts.
Never liked a lot of the characters either. I wish that the game wowed me but the only thing it did was give me PTSD from the first game with the last boss.
It's just a lollipop though. Like if Bayonetta went out of her way to go ham on that candy then, yeah, I'd agree that it was sexual. But fuck it, I don't care.
But holy shit people I already stated that the main problem I had with drakengard 3 wasn't even sex related
Jesus Christ what the hell is going on? At least try to talk about my other issues.
The game was sleazy in that it was shabby in terms of how the game was made and the content was raunchy at times for no reason other than to break the tone.
I just feel really passionately about this particular distinction between these two characters, nothing more. There is no point derailing it just because. My argument stands, I don't think Zero is "sleezy" in a derogatory sense, Swery is incorrect. Zero has more agency in her sex life than almost any other female protagonist, that fact alone needs to be better appreciated.
Swery never said that zero is sleazy.
He simply stated that the story is, and in terms of how shabby and ill put together it was I agree.
I don't really see how the story is sleezy if you divorce that from Zero.
Swery is not a master of the English language. He can mean a lot of things by his comments and can use one of the definitions of sleazy to describe how he feels towards the game. Maybe sleazy is a word that he uses for the entire series of drakengard. I can certainly see why, the series can be immoral or marked by low quality. For me, I'm going with the latter definition of sleazy. It's like that weird hotel sleazefest where everything is derelict and weird looking. Nothing seems to fit together and it just makes for a mismatched ensemble.
drakengard is sleazy as fuck, the whole thing abut it is that all of the characters are ultimately corrupt and immoral (the definition of sleazy) in a wildly unjust and cruel world
the interesting aspect is that they also want to save the world despite that, see: caim/zero- in caim you can argue for self preservation/personal involvement as a motivation but for zero what makes her so interesting is that she's literally got no attachments to the world she rightfully loathes and still sacrifices literally everything to save it despite being chosen as the one to destroy it in the first place
the interesting aspect is that they also want to save the world despite that, see: caim/zero- in caim you can argue for self preservation/personal involvement as a motivation but for zero what makes her so interesting is that she's literally got no attachments to the world she rightfully loathes and still sacrifices literally everything to save it despite being chosen as the one to destroy it in the first place
I can see why people would be off put by the Drakengard series. Caim's motivation for continuing onwards is to rescue his sister and massacre everyone in his path while his party members are there for...well...reasons.
I don't recall Nowe's motivation to do anything.
Drakengard 3's little book stories were pretty interesting. Zero had a shit life and...well..yeah. She undoes the crap that she caused, but inadvertently becomes the Queen Grotesquerie.
For the series I would say that it's immoral and crazy as hell. For 3, I would use poorly put together in terms of the definition of sleaze.
I don't recall Nowe's motivation to do anything.
Drakengard 3's little book stories were pretty interesting. Zero had a shit life and...well..yeah. She undoes the crap that she caused, but inadvertently becomes the Queen Grotesquerie.
For the series I would say that it's immoral and crazy as hell. For 3, I would use poorly put together in terms of the definition of sleaze.
Omega Kirby
Member
Zero was awesome but damn drakengard 3 was a mediocre game.
Oh wow, watching that trailer brought back memories. I never got the very last ending of Nier but I did get the "B" ending and once you see that ending it really changes everything.
Nier is an odd game. The graphics are not good (although they are serviceable), the animations are somewhat janky and the story is relentlessly dark. But then you factor in the character interactions, the various and cool game play forms, the soundtrack and of course the way the story evolves through the various endings. And you get something that is far, far greater than the sum of its parts.
Nier is about the farthest thing from an obviously good game. But if you are willing to invest some time in it and really soak in what the game is doing then it transcends the level of a B tier game and becomes an experience to remember. I certainly remember my time with it and I enjoyed the heck out of the experience.
InfiniteNine
Rolling Girl
It became more of a problem really when the framerate tanked in areas with larger swarms really also the screen being stuck on one frame then jumping to Zero already hit by the enemies. /:
cj_iwakura
Member
People talk about Trace Memory and Hotel Dusk all the time. They're cult classics. Drakengard 3 isn't even cult, it's just plain niche.
Also, Zero was a fantastic character. Her having Mitsuru's voice with her harem consisting of Liquid Snake, Akihiko, and Yosuke, made it even more hilarious.
Yeah, both those trailers brought the memories flooding back for me too. I've been popping them open like once a day since E3.
Nier is one of those games where the sum of its parts actually equals about 9 to 10 times the sum of its whole. Maybe a more lopsided ratio than any other game. That might be one of the reasons it has stuck with me for so long.
From what I understand, isn't the reason it's half-baked come from the fact that the Drakengard 3 we know was literally the last idea that Yoko Taro put forward and it just so happened to be greenlit?
It would certainly explain why its lacking compared to the rest of his work anyway; not bad, just lacking.
fvng
Member
You are killing me fvng. I would singlehandedly fund that Kickstarter. On loans. And then live out of my car for the rest of my life. Worth. <3
0. First of all it s probably not gonna be called nier 2
Also its not connected so there's no real point to do so
This guy gets it. Taro Yoko's original idea for the script was to call the game Drakengard 4 and have the protaganists look for the third installment. Then he also had an idea where a high school student used a phone to control her dragon, or something like that. It's pretty clear that Drakengard 3 is an outlier because they didn't let Taro Yoko be Taro Yoko.
There is some information where he talks about his involvement with Drakengard 3 online, I believe it was in his famitsu column if anyone wants to find it.
Do they? I've been looking around for a bit and people seem to talk about the games themselves but not the material that's in the games. Like "Oh man you should play this game but don't get scared off by a overseas only sequel"
For me it's more disappointing.
Benzychenz
Member
I'm gonna pick up Nier at some point soon thanks to this news, but are the Drakengard games worth playing at all? I definitely haven't heard as many good things about them as I have for Nier.
DXLelouch153
Banned
i started an LTTP =P
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1068811
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1068811
Drakengard 1 is a bizzarre experience, but not a good game.
A Spoilerrific summary of the first game someone posted earlier:
http://i.imgur.com/nxeRZgr.png
Drakengard 3 is a far better game gameplaywise but has huge technical issues, including an absolute abyssmal framerate that sometimes drops into dingle digits.
But it aslo has genuinly good (but also often bad) Humor, a really beautuiful ending to an itself mediocre but still pretty unique and weird story.
I love it.
Subscribed. Cant wait for you to get to the really good parts.
fvng
Member
I am calling it Nier 2 in an informal way since we obviously don't have have an official title (See title of thread) You are being far too literal
Source on it not being connected to Nier?
CreeperBlocks
Banned
I'm still can't believe we're getting a NIER 2.
E3 2015 was crazy. Absolutely insane
- Status