Support NeoGAF

[Nepenthe]

I rebuked the curriculum, not the knowledge.

The knowledge and curriculum are the same: Don't say it. You either agree with this or don't. If you don't agree, it's your choice, but you have no ground to complain about some people rebuking you as an ally. This isn't your shit to run.

 

[IrishNinja]

Yeah, in the context of agreeing with what he's trying to teach, just not how he's trying to teach it. You don't teach a kid to ride a bike by shouting at them to just ride it.

excellent metaphor; you teach a white sophist by uselessly exchanging with them for a few pages as though they were meeting said discussion in good faith, after which you both tap fedoras and say "good day, sir" and the former goes back to saying the n-word in the shower or groups of fellow whites, because #freespeech

 

[HiredN00bs]

Telling someone its not ok saying nigger is like teaching a kid to ride a bike.
Stay free my boy.
Stay free.

*sigh*

 

[xaosslug]

Telling someone its not ok saying nigger is like teaching a kid to ride a bike.
Stay free my boy.
Stay free.

oh mah gawd! xD

 

[Enzom21]

*sigh*

Is it frustrating that us blacks don't see how much of an ally you are to us?

 

[LionPride]

The knowledge and curriculum are the same: Don't say it. You either agree with this or don't. If you don't agree, it's your choice, but you have no ground to complain about some people rebuking you as an ally. This isn't your shit to run.

PREACH

 

[HiredN00bs]

Is it frustrating that us blacks don't see how much of an ally you are to us?

It hurts that my ideas are being misrepresented to demonize me, whether it's intentional or not.

The knowledge and curriculum are the same: Don't say it. You either agree with this or don't. If you don't agree, it's your choice, but you have no ground to complain about some people rebuking you as an ally. This isn't your shit to run.

I was just trying to help. But that's not what this thread is about.

 

[see5harp]

If you can't say nigger in front random black people then maybe you shouldn't say it at all.

some people certainly feel this way and avoid it. Obviously sitting in the car with someone else I avoid it. As a long time rap fan I definetly have lived through many a decent white rapper who avoided using the word completely (em, el-p, Mac miller, etc.) and I understand why they did. Reciting lyrics alone or even typing them really doesn't eat at my conscience though. Niggajuice ain't gonna crawl up into the shower if I say it three times.

Generally I Won't even say the word nigga out loud in a crowd. At Fyf this year I was with a group of younger kids (17-22) and one of the girls was saying how she was "gonna rap everything word for word" and I responded "I know one word you're not gonna say" and most people laughed because they understood the joke. I guess I just wasn't prepared for that filter didn't seem to exist for these kids. The place was so live for madd city and Kendrick was really provoking people to yell that chorus (and tens of thousands were obliging with a particularly healthy "where your grandma stay my nigga"). What it his role in all of this? I know he sees the crowd demographics. 90% of the crowd is probably white for his festival shows these days. Fully acknowledging that Kendrick doesn't speak for all black people does he have a responsibility to avoid doing call and response for those songs that rely heavily on the usage of the word or is really just up to the crowd to let Kendrick ad lib it in their version?

 

[lightskintwin]

It hurts that my words are being misrepresented to demonize me, whether it's intentional or not.

So that I don't misrepresent any of your words or demonize you, care to elaborate on this or will you continue to ignore my post:

Did you mean to say only white people can talk in an emotionally detached and purely intellectual way, or am I giving you too much benefit of the doubt in assuming you worded that wrong?

 

[campfireweekend]

So that I don't misrepresent any of your words or demonize you, care to elaborate on this or will you continue to ignore my post:

Also implying that white people care more about speech than race.

It really seems like he sees himself, and thus the white race, as innately more rational, or interested in semamtics.

 

[IrishNinja]

The place was so live for madd city and Kendrick was really provoking people to yell that chorus (and tens of thousands were obliging with a particularly healthy "where your grandma stay my nigga"). What it his role in all of this? I know he sees the crowd demographics. 90% of the crowd is probably white for his festival shows these days. Fully acknowledging that Kendrick doesn't speak for all black people does he have a responsibility to avoid doing call and response for those songs that rely heavily on the usage of the word or is really just up to the crowd to let Kendrick ad lib it in their version?

kdot can also walk down streets like crimshaw and possibly share a pizza with suge knight without being shaken over a balcony until rings fall out like sonic, too

i know it hurts, but in life i've long since accepted there are things kendrick can do that i cannot. sometimes i try to console myself thinking about the multitude of things i can calmly do that might cause him great harm, though.

It really seems like he sees himself, and thus the white race, as innately more rational, or interested semamtics.

...so nobody else is seeing the hitchens avy then, just me huh

 

[Enzom21]

It hurts that my ideas are being misrepresented to demonize me, whether it's intentional or not.


I was just trying to help. But that's not what this thread is about.

So we've reached the victim stage of the annual white people saying nigger thread.
Keep being an ally to us emotion filled Negroes and keep saying nigger.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Did you mean to say only white people can talk in an emotionally detached and purely intellectual way, or am I giving you too much benefit of the doubt in assuming you worded that wrong?

I was speaking about this particular subject, and not absolutely. When I get heated over some asshole spouting off this word, I'm assuming it doesn't hit me emotionally the same way it hits a black person, speaking generally, on average. No one ever called me it in a derogatory manner, or my parents, or their parents. I've lived a privileged life in so many ways, so issues of race just aren't as close to my heart, no matter how much I want them to be. I can't ever really know what it's like.

It really seems like he sees himself, and thus the white race, as innately more rational, or interested in semamtics.

Actually, I was describing it as being a detriment to me being an ally. Rationality starts from zero in a sense, and this discussion about race didn't start from a position of equality. Emotional intelligence is vital to empathy, and I am aware of my personal deficiency.

 

[collige]

Without getting fully into the entire discussion about the word, I'm extremely uncomfortable with people using the threat of violence as justification or as retaliation for white people using the word. The subject often comes up in these threads and people generally act like it's justified or something to be expected where for literally any other situation it would rightly be called victim blaming if someone was assaulted for using hurtful language.

 

[Professor Beef]

I'm scared, this is the most me and IrishNinja have agreed on anything in a number of years.

 

[lightskintwin]

I meant about this particular subject. When I get heated over some asshole spouting off this word, I'm assuming it doesn't hit me emotionally the same was it hits a black person, speaking generally, on average. No one ever called me it in a derogatory manner, or my parents, or their parents. I've lived a privileged life in so many ways, so issues of race just aren't as close to my heart, no matter how much I want them to be. I can't ever really know what it's like.

That makes more sense even if you're still wrong. LOL You act as if White people are divorced from the history, use, and meaning of that word that wouldn't bias them even at an unconscious and implicit level. Just because Blacks and Whites have a different relationship with the term doesn't mean they aren't equally affected by it in different ways. Quit believing in objectivity. If you have an opinion, you're biased period.

 

[Enzom21]

I was speaking about this particular subject, and not absolutely. When I get heated over some asshole spouting off this word, I'm assuming it doesn't hit me emotionally the same was it hits a black person, speaking generally, on average. No one ever called me it in a derogatory manner, or my parents, or their parents. I've lived a privileged life in so many ways, so issues of race just aren't as close to my heart, no matter how much I want them to be. I can't ever really know what it's like.

Never been choked and called a nigger by a 30 year old white man when you were 11 because you scored a touchdown in a game of street football? Never been asked can't you read nigger when asking about a toy at K-B toys? Never had "niggers go home" spray painted on a wall near your house when you were a kid? etc etc. I guess you can be emotionally detached from something that is nothing more than a song lyric to you.

Keep on saying it though and exist in the same company as those people. You keep calling yourself an ally and let me assure you that you are not.

 

[HiredN00bs]

That makes more sense even if you're still wrong. LOL You act as if White people are divorced from the history, use, and meaning of that word that wouldn't bias them even at an unconscious and implicit level. Just because Blacks and Whites have a different relationship with the term doesn't mean they aren't equally affected by it in different ways. Quit believing in objectivity. If you have an opinion, you're biased period.

Yeah, you're right. That's something I'll take with me too. Thank you.

Never been choked and called a nigger by a 30 year old white man where you were 11 because you scored a touchdown in a game of street football? Never been asked can't you read nigger when asking about a toy at K-B toys? Never had "niggers go home" spray painted on a wall near your house when you were a kid? etc etc. I guess you can be emotionally detached from something that is nothing more than a song lyric to you.

Keep on saying it though and exist in the same company as those people. You keep calling yourself an ally and let me assure you that you are not.

Thank you.

I'm sorry, man. Feeling a lot less detached about this.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Without getting fully into the entire discussion about the word, I'm extremely uncomfortable with people using the threat of violence as justification or as retaliation for white people using the word. The subject often comes up in these threads and people generally act like it's justified or something to be expected where for literally any other situation it would rightly be called victim blaming if someone was assaulted for using hurtful language.

IMO, I dont condone violence but at the same time, some hate speech can be considered abuse. I dont think killing someone over it would be justified but a nice backhand would probably be about an equal return of force. Its hard to understand how damaging words can be from the perspective of someone that cant experience it since the words font exist for them (white people).

Think of it as a spit in the face. It may not physically hurt you but its disrespectful enough to rightfully let someone feel the back of your hand.

 

[IrishNinja]

man, enough indulging that fuckery - thread is already lowkey feeling like a light lawnmowing moment for bish at it is, no need to keep indulging

I'm scared, this is the most me and IrishNinja have agreed on anything in a number of years.

it's a work

IMO, I dont condone violence but at the same time, some hate speech can be considered abuse. I dont think killing someone over it would be justified but a nice backhand would probably be about an equal return of force. Its hard to understand how damaging words can be from the perspective of someone that cant experience it since the words font exist for them (white people).

Think of it as a spit in the face. It may not physically hurt you but its disrespectful enough to rightfully let someone feel the back of your hand.

this is a solid analogy right here - proudly throwing the n-word around does feel a lot like spitting in the face, i'd imagine

 

[Enzom21]

Yeah, you're right. That's something I'll take with me too. Thank you.
Thank you.

Yeah whatever, "ally."

 

[see5harp]

kdot can also walk down streets like crimshaw and possibly share a pizza with suge knight without being shaken over a balcony until rings fall out like sonic, too

i know it hurts, but in life i've long since accepted there are things kendrick can do that i cannot. sometimes i try to console myself thinking about the multitude of things i can calmly do that might cause him great harm, though.

what the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about call and response at a live show. It's Crenshaw.

 

[lightskintwin]

Yeah, you're right. That's something I'll take with me too. Thank you.
Thank you.

Then we cool, because that was really my main issue I had with anything you've been saying.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Yeah whatever, "ally."

Whether you believe it or not, what you've shared is helping me understand why I was wrong, and I am sincerely thankful to you for it.

 

[IrishNinja]

what the hell are you talking about? I'm talking about call and response at a live show. It's Crenshaw.

you're saying kdot should take responsibility on some level, i'm saying it should be obvious why he can say some shit and you ought not
also i'm far too east coast to spell that shit right

 

[pixelation]

A) your two cents is apparently based on never knowing black folks, but getting images & stereotypes from media...and then reacting poorly when actual POC point out why this is offensive

B) stop acting like one

A) Reacting poorly, you mean stating my POV is reacting poorly?, the dude i was replying to previously was reacting poorly being offensive in his counter arguments... not me.

B) Racist: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race, the belief that some races of people are better than others

So once again... i fail to see how i'm being racist. Nothing i've posted fits the description.

 

[Daingurse]

IMO, I dont condone violence but at the same time, some hate speech can be considered abuse. I dont think killing someone over it would be justified but a nice backhand would probably be about an equal return of force. Its hard to understand how damaging words can be from the perspective of someone that cant experience it since the words font exist for them (white people).

Think of it as a spit in the face. It may not physically hurt you but its disrespectful enough to rightfully let someone feel the back of your hand.

I think nigger is a legitimate fighting word. Because I'm sorry, if some random dude called me a nigger to my face, I'm slapping the shit outtta them at the very least. Is that the right thing to do? No, but it's definitely going to happen, and I will feel very justified.

 

[Professor Beef]

it's a work

all i know is that Lan Di would never use such language

meanwhile that little thug Ryo looks like he been using it for a hot minute

 

[see5harp]

you're saying kdot should take responsibility on some level, i'm saying it should be obvious why he can say some shit and you ought not
also i'm far too east coast to spell that shit right

I didn't say that he should, I'm asking whether or not he should. If he knew that this many people were offended and that it brought back deeply traumatic moments experienced as a youth as a result of all these people singing the chorus, maybe he would avoid doing it.

EDIT: and east coast cities, specifically new York ones have the MOST fucked up spelling. Words that shouldn't even go together and shit. what the fuck is a stuyesvescent or whatever.

 

[LionPride]

A) Reacting poorly, you mean stating my POV is reacting poorly?, the dude i was replying to previously was reacting poorly being offensive in his counter arguments... not me.

B) Racist: poor treatment of or violence against people because of their race, the belief that some races of people are better than others

So once again... i fail to see how i'm being racist. Nothing i've posted fits the description.

You don't see how saying black people are mainly rappers and actors is ever so slightly racist? Kk

 

[lightskintwin]

I didn't say that he should, I'm asking whether or not he should. If he knew that this many people were offended and that it brought back to deeply traumatic moments experienced as a youth as a result of all these people singing the chorus, maybe he would avoid doing it.

Legit LOL'd in real life.

 

[pixelation]

You don't see how saying black people are mainly rappers and actors is ever so slightly racist? Kk

Look, i don't live in the U.S. so... is it hard to realize that the only black people that i know are either singers or actors?, also... where did i say that black people are mainly rappers and actors?...

 

[Enzom21]

Whether you believe it or not, what you've shared is helping me understand why I was wrong, and I am sincerely thankful to you for it.

I can't honestly say that I give a fuck. I shouldn't have to share anything about how many times I have been called a nigger so you understand why you shouldn't say it. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. My experience isn't new nor is it isolated.

You and people like you know damn well it's a slur that has been used to demoralize black people for centuries but you can't seem to figure out that you shouldn't say it unless I hold your hand like I am teaching you how to ride a fucking bike?!

You're not a fucking ally so stop calling yourself one... oops another negro told you what to do.

Look, i don't live in the U.S. so... is it hard to realize that the only black people that i know are either singers or actors?, also... where did i say that black people are mainly rappers and actors?...

Are all black people the same?

 

[collige]

IMO, I dont condone violence but at the same time, some hate speech can be considered abuse. I dont think killing someone over it would be justified but a nice backhand would probably be about an equal return of force. Its hard to understand how damaging words can be from the perspective of someone that cant experience it since the words font exist for them (white people).

Think of it as a spit in the face. It may not physically hurt you but its disrespectful enough to rightfully let someone feel the back of your hand.

Even if it is a decent comparison, I really don't think it's remotely close to being a justification. In fact, with the recent drama with Mang0 (the Smash pro) being accused of domestic violence, he used the fact that he was spat on as a justification for hitting his wife. Unsurprisingly, people didn't really like that excuse and I can bet that anyone who agreed with him probably caught a ban.

 

[lightskintwin]

Even if it is a decent comparison, I really don't think it's remotely close to being a justification. In fact, with the recent drama with Mang0 (the Smash pro) being accused of domestic violence, he used the fact that he was spat on as a justification for hitting his wife. Unsurprisingly, people didn't really like that excuse and I can bet that anyone who agreed with him probably caught a ban.

I mean, what do you want, people to get banned? It's not that big of a stretch to know calling people insults in real life can get your ass whooped. LOL I know the likelihood of being the victim of violence heavily increases if I randomly start calling guy's girlfriends "Bitch" right in front of the guy, which is why most people wouldn't.

 

[IrishNinja]

So once again... i fail to see how i'm being racist.

oh yeah, i've gathered that much
you also keep reusing to hear actual POC in this thread, but hey, you've heard some black dudes in entertainment, same thing i guess

all i know is that Lan Di would never use such language

meanwhile that little thug Ryo looks like he been using it for a hot minute

this is how i know you've prolly never even gotten past the intro in shenmue bruh
ryo apologizes when he interrupts old hens clucking about speeding black carts and shit, lan di at the end of part 2 stares you down & says "all lives matter" while hanging from a chopper

EDIT: and east coast cities, specifically new York ones have the MOST fucked up spelling. Words that shouldn't even go together and shit. what the fuck is a stuyesvescent or whatever.

it's just do or die, makes shit easier

You don't see how saying black people are mainly rappers and actors is ever so slightly racist? Kk

yeah, but he'll sort it out any day now, just got a few more posts of people "engaging him" to rationalize before exiting & no doubt giving his wordlview a long hard look

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Even if it is a decent comparison, I really don't think it's remotely close to being a justification. In fact, with the recent drama with Mang0 (the Smash pro) being accused of domestic violence, he used the fact that he was spat on as a justification for hitting his wife. Unsurprisingly, people didn't really like that excuse and I can bet that anyone who agreed with him probably caught a ban.

I'm talking more about a random person saying something like that to your face. Or spitting in ypur face. Would I hit my spouse because she spit in my face? Hell No. Would I backhand somebody I didnt know who spit in my face? Actually no. I have a ridiculous amount of self control when it comes to keeping my temper in check. I am just able to realize that some dont have that kind of self control when they feel threatened and can empathize with that.

If I saw a white guy get in some black guys face and call him the N word and the black guy smacked him across the face, I would feel he was justified.

Whether or not that would hold up proving self defense in a court of law is another story.

Physically abusing your spouse over words is a whole other subject IMO.

 

[lightskintwin]

I'm talking more about a random person saying something like that to your face. Or spitting in ypur face. Would I hit my spouse because she spit in my face? Hell No. Would I backhand somebody I didnt know who spit in my face? Actually no. I have a ridiculous amount of self control when it comes to keeping my temper in check. I am just able to realize that some dont have that kind of self control when they feel threatened and can empathize with that.

If I saw a white guy get in some black guys face and call him the N word and the black guy smacked him across the face, I would feel he was justified.

Whether or not that would hold up proving self defense in a court of law is another story.

Physically abusing your spouse over words is a whole other subject IMO.

Even spit in your face? Gotdamn, you a saint. You better than me.

 

[LionPride]

Look, i don't live in the U.S. so... is it hard to realize that the only black people that i know are either singers or actors?, also... where did i say that black people are mainly rappers and actors?...

Seeing as I know people who don't live in the U.S. who accepted the fact that they shouldn't say nigga, even when singing, this point means fuck all to me

 

[HiredN00bs]

I can't honestly say that I give a fuck. I shouldn't have to share anything about how many times I have been called a nigger so you understand why you shouldn't say it. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. My experience isn't new nor is it isolated.

You and people like you know damn well it's a slur that has been used to demoralize black people for centuries but you can't seem to figure out that you shouldn't say it unless I hold your hand like I am teaching you how to ride a fucking bike?!

You're not a fucking ally so stop calling yourself one... oops another negro told you what to do.

No offense taken whatsoever. I'm sorry for being an obnoxious fuck.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Even spit in your face? Gotdamn, you a saint. You better than me.

Oh I might escalate the confrontation but I wont swing first. Never have. Prison scares me.

 

[see5harp]

I mean, what do you want, people to get banned? It's not that big of a stretch to know calling people insults in real life can get your ass whooped. LOL I know the likelihood of being the victim of violence heavily increases if I randomly start calling guy's girlfriends "Bitch" right in front of the guy, which is why most people wouldn't.

I don't think anyone here, even the dude trying to be a white ambassador to black people, was saying anyone should be able to use the term as an insult. That's why earlier I had asked about words like bitch, slut and ho, which are used all of the time in music. I use bitch all of the time but I know it's different than telling my girl that "she is acting like a bitch." That's a one way ticket to getting smacked in the face.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

It hurts that my ideas are being misrepresented to demonize me, whether it's intentional or not.


I was just trying to help. But that's not what this thread is about.

HiredN00bs is the white guy everyone's seen who shows up to BLM meetings to make it all about himself and has never been in a situation where their ideas weren't given top priority. Then we're the bad guys for calling him out on that.

 

[neurosyphilis]

I cringe when I hear the n word and it sucked how high school I started following the crowd and said it occasionally. I have almost banished it from my vocabulary, but my brothers continue to say it, and I can't do nothing about it.

 

[collige]

I mean, what do you want, people to get banned? It's not that big of a stretch to know calling people insults in real life can get your ass whooped. LOL I know the likelihood of being the victim of violence heavily increases if I randomly start calling guy's girlfriends "Bitch" right in front of the guy, which is why most people wouldn't.

Nah, I don't want bans. I guess I'm trying to say that it seems like people are conflating violence as a utilitarian reason to not say the word (don't do it cause it'll get your ass kicked) with it being a moral reason ("teaching someone a lesson"). Obviously, the utilitarian aspect is real and is probably decently effective but it's probably not effective in the long run since all it teaches is a Pavlovian response. It's kind of comparable to spanking in that respect.

 

[LookAtMeGo]

Nah, I don't want bans. I guess I'm trying to say that it seems like people are conflating violence as a utilitarian reason to not say the word (don't do it cause it'll get your ass kicked) with it being a moral reason ("teaching someone a lesson"). Obviously, the utilitarian aspect is real and is probably decently effective but it's probably not effective in the long run since all it teaches is a Pavlovian response. It's kind of comparable to spanking in that respect.

I see what you are saying but it probably is good for some people to know that you might get hurt for using a word because chances are you will. Think of it as a PSA. I do think a lot of people try to help teach why you shouldnt use the word, like in this thread. OP does a pretty good job. Sometimes self preservation is a good reason to learn something as well

 

[lightskintwin]

Oh I might escalate the confrontation but I wont swing first. Never have. Prison scares me.

Back in the day, I would've called you a punk; but now I'm envious of people like you and continue to try to control my temper. The best thing that's helped is to try my best to avoid situations like that, or at the very least have somebody more level headed around me that has my best interests at heart and will do anything to prevent me from full on confrontation. Prison scares me too, bro.

I don't think anyone here, even the dude trying to be a white ambassador to black people, was saying anyone should be able to use the term as an insult.

I wasn't saying they were, I was responding to the guy who was saying we shouldn't condone violent acts if somebody used this specific racial slur. Ok I can see how you got that, I meant if it was used as an insult.

That's why earlier I had asked about words like bitch, slut and ho, which are used all of the time in music. I use bitch all of the time but I know it's different than telling my girl that "she is acting like a bitch." That's a one way ticket to getting smacked in the face.

See I've gotten away with telling a girl "she is acting like a bitch" due to the technicality that it's a simile, merely a figure of speech showing the similarities in two different things, not that you are actually a bitch. "It's the way you're acting now I'm insulting, not you as person, baby." LOL
It worked.

 

[Professor Beef]

this is how i know you've prolly never even gotten past the intro in shenmue bruh
ryo apologizes when he interrupts old hens clucking about speeding black carts and shit, lan di at the end of part 2 stares you down & says "all lives matter" while hanging from a chopper

i won't stand for this slander

a businessman like lan di would be donating his hard-earned money to charities

 

[HiredN00bs]

HiredN00bs is the white guy everyone's seen who shows up to BLM meetings to make it all about himself and has never been in a situation where their ideas weren't given top priority. Then we're the bad guys for calling him out on that.

I have a ways to go in understanding this shit in the way that's necessary to solve problems and not make an ass of myself. I don't think anyone here is a bad guy.

 

[collige]

I see what you are saying but it probably is good for some people to know that you might get hurt for using a word because chances are you will. Think of it as a PSA. I do think a lot of people try to help teach why you shouldnt use the word, like in this thread. OP does a pretty good job. Sometimes self preservation is a good reason to learn something as well

Yeah, I agree. I'm just venting cause it seems like sometimes the empathy for the person on the receiving ends bleeds into being schadenfreude. Talking more mistaken line-crossing situations with naive here rather than someone intentionally dropping a hard "r" 60's-style.