Well, these comments are on topic because the success of the title is clearly too much for some people (not shocked Kagari didn't like it though) to accept. No game is perfect but it is also better than a 'no game' such as Versus. As much as I dislike Tabata's story telling, he has brought together that rare game that people are still really enjoying despite almost everyone recognizing the flaws. In a few months, those flaws may not even be there.
How people hate XV's story but like XII's is beyond me. XV's might have been told weird and missing points but at least had the bones of a good story. XII suffers from many of the same problems but the story is bland.
How people hate XV's story but like XII's is beyond me. XV's might have been told weird and missing points but at least had the bones of a good story. XII suffers from many of the same problems but the story is bland.
XII's plot was hijacked by trying to make Vaan the focal point character in the worst way possible. It'd be like if FFXV's story was told through promto's eyes, but Noctis and co met Promto at hammerhead and he just went with them for no reason.
I don't think Square even comes close to making their money back on this... also, those who wanted it have probably already bought it given that it was on sale over the Holidays. Not small sales, either.
I doubt it has a great January, but we will see...
I don't think Square even comes close to making their money back on this... also, those who wanted it have probably already bought it given that it was on sale over the Holidays. Not small sales, either.
I doubt it has a great January, but we will see...
SE has most likely made money off the 6 + million shipment already .
This game was only in active development for 3 years which is normal now.
So DD , CE , season pass etc etc is all extra money .
Here is a great post from John Harker, who is a trusted insider with track record inside industry over the subject matter of 'profitable' point for FFXV.
I just started typing this long reply, thought better of it and deleted it.
Basically, as my opinion would go, saying "10mil" for a company like Square is one of those hyperbolic internal statements a company makes to justify the % of resources the company is investing in one project and also to keep the internal teams motivated. A project of this investment from Square isn't the size of one from like an EA or Acti or Ubi, and I've seen projects with just as many restarts and larger team sizes have profitability goals of 6mm at the high end.
So basically the gist is that an AAA RPG like FFXV from SE will still cost less than similar scope project from Industry giants.
Also despite the joke of 10 years of development, it is possible to achieve profitability at 6 million sold. So yeh, SE might have already made bank with the money generated by FFXV and the revenue is higher now thanks to digital copies + the 100k UCE that they sold worth around 280 usd. Not to mention the movie was also sold separately so while it might have its own cost, it could work out well in the long run. I also think Sony helped with some of the movie's budget so it is not as expensive for SE as most of us think.
Bottom line is that FFXV could have achieved break even status with its day one shipment-digital sales and the additional sales now are just cherry on top. The game is also exhibiting good legs so far and the WOM is largely positive.
Still waiting for the honeymoon period to end while the game holds a steady 82 meta rating with 102 reviews
Persona 5 has the potential to open to new franchise sales record. So expect >200k for its opening, which is really good number IMO, the same as Type-0 HD.
JRPGs are big in the EU countries so I expect atleast 100k from UK/FR/GR. It should have no trouble in passing 1 million sales after Western release and then the good WOM might keep its sales going just like it did with P4: Golden. 2 million looks like a hard target but who knows what will happen.
Actually, my major issue with XII was the gameplay and the overall setting and story, namely because FFXII's "job system" was too open and it can get confusing. I hear that Zodiac Age gives them a set path. This for me is enough to play it again.
But then again, the overall story and theme can't be fixed since it's set in stone.
i think SE mainly sees the game as an investment in the franchise going forward. not to say turning a profit is negligible (they'll get as much mileage as they can with dlc, pc port, goty/remasters, ect) but i think simply going in the black is "mission accomplished" at this point
Actually, my major issue with XII was the gameplay and the overall setting and story, namely because FFXII's "job system" was too open and it can get confusing. I hear that Zodiac Age gives them a set path. This for me is enough to play it again.
But then again, the overall story and theme can't be fixed since it's set in stone.
While I agree the story is not fixable in 12, the job system totally transforms FF 12. It's what made the game a true Final Fantasy title for me. You're in for a treat.
Actually, my major issue with XII was the gameplay and the overall setting and story, namely because FFXII's "job system" was too open and it can get confusing. I hear that Zodiac Age gives them a set path. This for me is enough to play it again.
But then again, the overall story and theme can't be fixed since it's set in stone.
Hmmm i would disagree in that FFXII had a far more fleshed out world while XV had a more coherent (or rather tighter) story, despite some of the pacing flaws they are trying to fix (or created because of the DLC sections).
Hmmm i would disagree in that FFXII had a far more fleshed out world while XV had a more coherent (or rather tighter) story, despite some of the pacing flaws they are trying to fix (or created because of the DLC sections).
To each their own, but I guess I can't really fathom that perspective myself. XV is one of the most broken narratives I've played in my 30 years of gaming. It's the definition of incoherence:
asking us to cry over the death of a character we don't even know (this applies to Jared and spectacularly... Luna as well), Ardyn seizing a power we don't understand, Prompto is an MT which means ???????
There were a few small things in XII that made me say "I don't think they finished that"... but the core narrative of XV is like that.
FFXII barely had a story at all as far as i was concerned. i don't think i can recall anything in particular about it. something about magicite... judges something or another?
When I reflect back on my experience,I realize it was really dreadful.I don't even know how I've put nearly 40 hours into.
The driving is so bad,quests and world navigation are tedium personified,terrible story and lore,brain dead waste of a combat system ,and yet I actually pre-ordered this thing.
This what attachment to the past & Nostalgia does to you,blinds your judgement.
AND YET,I am happy it did decent.Maybe the money it brings can help sustain development at SE so better games can be made.
Whilst I will be buying the XII remaster day 1 it remains my least favorite mainline. For me the worst crime a story can commit is being drab and dull. FF12 was that. Along with the medieval setting which i really dislike in general there was no going back. But I do see how the game is subtle and mature and maybe i'lll be able to better understand it today.
For me anyway FFXIII is still the best post X FF and the most like FF, probably purely due to the melodrama, presentation, music, setting and volume of plot. Even it could have been soooo much better though had gameplay design been a bit more like XV's
To each their own, but I guess I can't really fathom that perspective myself. XV is one of the most broken narratives I've played in my 30 years of gaming. It's the definition of incoherence:
asking us to cry over the death of a character we don't even know (this applies to Jared and spectacularly... Luna as well), Ardyn seizing a power we don't understand, Prompto is an MT which means ???????
There were a few small things in XII that made me say "I don't think they finished that"... but the core narrative of XV is like that.
That doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what even happened in the ending to XV.
they're dead because reasons?
I found it cryptic and unsatisfying.
XII had a really well plotted, feel-good ending. I suppose the relationship between
Vayne taking the Occuria's power
might be a little confusing... but I understand that far more than whatever power
e aren't meant to cry over Jared but more to understand that the bros aren't THAT safe in Lucis and people are dying to protect them. Even when they raid the base in Chapter 6, it's not to avenge Jared but to stop Imperial buildup in the region. Getting some revenge for Jared was just icing on the cake. As for Ardyn, his motives are extremely solid, rather devious, and even sympathetic. Vayne in contrast was just another power hungry individual (okay, there is some hint of nobility is there) who actually proved the Occurians right as to why humans maybe should not be in charge of their own destiny.
Now that I think about it, take out Vayne, Cid, and Gabranth, and the Arcadian Empire is even less developed than Niflhiem.
Chapter 13 was effective for me because we see what happens to the empire after they finally 'win' and the consequences are rather horrific. Arcadia remains the same throughout the story, even after its king is killed and Senate dissolved
For me anyway FFXIII is still the best post X FF and the most like FF, probably purely due to the melodrama, presentation, music, setting and volume of plot. Even it could have been soooo much better though had gameplay design been a bit more like XV's
Frankly I feel that XII's lore, feel, and world doesn't exactly seem to fit in my definition of a mainline FF game. Personally it feels like the oddman. I'd rather be it in a spinoff FF series rather than a mainline game. I felt that all the mainline FF games I've played seemed to fit in the "Final Fantasy feel" except for XII, yes even XIII felt like an FF game.
Maybe it's why I don't like it as much, due to me not wanting FF to take that direction in terms of feel and theme.
I enjoyed it in the main, though by the end it had really turned into a simple case of button mashing. Upon reflection it really felt undercooked in a number of areas.
I don't think Square even comes close to making their money back on this... also, those who wanted it have probably already bought it given that it was on sale over the Holidays. Not small sales, either.
I doubt it has a great January, but we will see...
Frankly I feel that XII's lore, feel, and world doesn't exactly seem to fit in my definition of a mainline FF game. Personally it feels like the oddman. I'd rather be it in a spinoff FF series rather than a mainline game. I felt that all the mainline FF games I've played seemed to fit in the "Final Fantasy feel" except for XII, yes even XIII felt like an FF game.
Maybe it's why I don't like it as much, due to me not wanting FF to take that direction in terms of feel and theme.
it's an odd bird in that it sort of is a spinoff. an "Ivalice" game ensconced in FF trappings, and things were further muddied by alleged executive meddling
but all in all it felt like an FF imo, it was just a departure from what the series had become at the time, j-pop influence, "gaia spirit" metaphysics, ect
To each their own, but I guess I can't really fathom that perspective myself. XV is one of the most broken narratives I've played in my 30 years of gaming. It's the definition of incoherence:
asking us to cry over the death of a character we don't even know (this applies to Jared and spectacularly... Luna as well), Ardyn seizing a power we don't understand, Prompto is an MT which means ???????
There were a few small things in XII that made me say "I don't think they finished that"... but the core narrative of XV is like that.
That doesn't make sense to me. I don't know what even happened in the ending to XV.
they're dead because reasons?
I found it cryptic and unsatisfying.
XII had a really well plotted, feel-good ending. I suppose the relationship between
Vayne taking the Occuria's power
might be a little confusing... but I understand that far more than whatever power
Some of this stuff you missed is explicitly laid out in the game ESPECIALLY the ending. If you didn't understand the ending you just weren't paying attention really, the game is very explicit about it.
Many gave all for the True King so the True King must give all for many. Bahamut straight up tells you to defeat Ardyn you have to call on the ancient kings and use the ring and sacrifice your life.
Reading the discussion thus far and looking back at my dislike and disappointment in FFXV, I've begun to seriously question my taste and judgment-
Why is it that I have found myself enjoying Type 0 but ultimately felt let down by XV?
Closest thing I could think of is, I've been so bitter with Final Fantasy after the farcical XIII, that I was so ready to accept any FF game, regardless of its quality.
But I really don't want to consider that I got emotionally manipulated
it's an odd bird in that it sort of is a spinoff. an "Ivalice" game ensconced in FF trappings, and things were further muddied by alleged executive meddling
but all in all it felt like an FF imo, it was just a departure from what the series had become at the time, j-pop influence, "gaia spirit" metaphysics, ect
I'd probably say it was too much of a departure of the FF norm, and probably a departure that I didn't like much.
To put it back on topic, FFXV was a big departure in terms of gameplay compared to the mainline FF games but for some reason the FF roots and feel are there.
Frankly I feel that XII's lore, feel, and world doesn't exactly seem to fit in my definition of a mainline FF game. Personally it feels like the oddman. I'd rather be it in a spinoff FF series rather than a mainline game. I felt that all the mainline FF games I've played seemed to fit in the "Final Fantasy feel" except for XII, yes even XIII felt like an FF game.
Maybe it's why I don't like it as much, due to me not wanting FF to take that direction in terms of feel and theme.
I understand what you mean about it having a different feel and theme... and I had the exact opposite reaction. I was ecstatic that FF's famous diversity would also allow for a more tonally subdued and dignified world. A kind of Japanese Game of Thrones.
I don't mind occasionally indulging in the adolescent shounen fantasy of games like X or XIII.... but XII was the reassurance I needed in my early 20s that the brand could also provide stories with a mature tone.
It sounds like we're on two sides of the same coin. On a fundamental level, we loved/hated the base tone of the game.
Some of this stuff you missed is explicitly laid out in the game ESPECIALLY the ending. If you didn't understand the ending you just weren't paying attention really, the game is very explicit about it.
Many gave all for the True King so the True King must give all for many. Bahamut straight up tells you to defeat Ardyn you have to call on the ancient kings and use the ring and sacrifice your life.
And yet I sit in rapt attention whenever dialogue comes up. What you describe in your spoiler text is exactly the kind of cryptic gobbledegook that the game would quickly drop on you and pass off as plot development. What the game needs is for the characters to reflect on these cryptic plot twists and unpack them, to explain them in human terms. Most of the better stories in this series would do this. "So, you have to make the pilgrimage to Zanarkand... Are you afraid?" that kind of thing.
I'm sure there's more context and explanation in the mass of material that they planned for the game... but it didn't make it into the game.
I just don't get people's complaints about the story I this game, I was never really left confused by the end of the game. I don't see why everything needs to be spelled out. And the ending was about as clear as they come...
I just don't get people's complaints about the story I this game, I was never really left confused by the end of the game. I don't see why everything needs to be spelled out. And the ending was about as clear as they come...
I also find the story pretty easy to follow. What I don't like is the exposition of said story. Given the basic informations at start the player is then lost in hours of no progression. There's a terrible fast forward in the second part that makes the pace even feel more wrong than before. Also absolutely no character development for anyone starring in this game.
I said it before and say it now, all in all FFXIII is a vastly better Final Fantasy to me. To a stretch I might say the same thing for its two sequels.
I also find the story pretty easy to follow. What I don't like is the exposition of said story. Given the basic informations at start the player is then lost in hours of no progression. There's a terrible fast forward in the second part that makes the pace even feel more wrong than before. Also absolutely no character development for anyone starring in this game.
I said it before and say it now, all in all FFXIII is a vastly better Final Fantasy to me.
Depends what you want out of a final fantasy for sure... maybe they should have just left it at "A Final Fantasy for first timers" because fans seem to be the ones with the big problem with this game.
i dont understand why the thread has to be sidetracked by the haters. FF15 sold well and so was a success for bigger Japanese games and SE to continue their operations in the core gaming space.
I don't know how the specific complaints about the story and the gameplay and such factor into that
i dont understand why the thread has to be sidetracked by the haters. FF15 sold well and so was a success for bigger Japanese games and SE to continue their operations in the core gaming space.
I don't know how the specific complaints about the story and the gameplay and such factor into that
Does it really surprise you though, every final fantasy 15 thread is like this. I went into an f-zero thread and one of the first posts was completely unrelated final fantasy 15 hate. A lot of people very clearly want you to know they hate this game.
But back on topic, delighted by the sales results, hope this means we can get a few more action rpg final fantasys in the future.
i dont understand why the thread has to be sidetracked by the haters. FF15 sold well and so was a success for bigger Japanese games and SE to continue their operations in the core gaming space.
I don't know how the specific complaints about the story and the gameplay and such factor into that
