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[kirblar]

i still don't understand why legalization of weed isn't a surefire policy win for democrats

There are age/gender demos tripping them up here, I believe. I agree that it's a "duh" thing.

 

[shamanick]

That's a very nice gesture but I'm reasonably sure that's not an actual policy they ran on. Call me when they start nationalizing industries or raise the minimum wage to, what was it, 10 pounds? Which is like, 12 bucks in americanland, and that sounds a bit neoliberal shilly to me, but what do I know.

Yeah, I'm sure the otherwise-homeless people being housed are pleased with this "gesture"

Otherwise, if you're trying to say they don't have a legislative majority, then yes that wasn't ever being argued

 

[aeolist]

Surely you realize that America 2008-2010 is not America 2016-2020. The country and the Democratic Party HAVE moved to the left in that time, including on health care. The reason we can even discuss single payer with any degree of seriousness is because the ACA began the arduous decoupling of health insurance from employment. Now that it's been seven years and the world hasn't collapsed, people have started clamoring for the public option and Medicare buy-ins and maybe, ultimately, single payer. You strike me as the type to be opposed to incrementalism, but we needed the first step in the form of ACA to begin the transition.

the reason we're discussing single payer is thanks to the overall failure of the ACA, both in terms of delivering good outcomes and optics. the ACA was supposedly written as a watered-down center-right bill because we wanted bipartisanship, but that's out the window because republicans will fight anything democrats put up even if it's actually right-wing policy, and people have woken up to the fact that the markets cannot and will not do what we desperately need in terms of coverage and affordability.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

i still don't understand why legalization of weed isn't a surefire policy win for democrats

Young people don't vote, and they're the ones who care about it

 

[TurnipFritters]

Yeah, I'm sure the otherwise-homeless people being housed are pleased with this "gesture"

Otherwise, if you're trying to say they don't have a legislative majority, then yes that wasn't ever being argued

It absolutely is a gesture because it's going to help victims of a high profile incident that captured international news. Meanwhile, folks who have been homeless for far longer are being offered ?????????

 

[shamanick]

It absolutely is a gesture because it's going to help victims of a high profile incident that captured international news. Meanwhile, folks who have been homeless for far longer are being offered ??????

Shit you're right, Corbyn didn't resolve homelessness yet better run a centrist next time

 

[Frozenprince]

And that's because people who bother to vote are largely wealthy and white. The code to crack is actually getting those non-voters in, instead of blowing millions on flipping people who listen to Rush on their drive to their middle manager job.

But people have tried to do this for decades. Who and what do you think the biggest group of most canvassing teams target? It's college students.

They still don't turn out. Because of a myriad of factors far beyond just policy.

 

[Gattsu25]

Dems tried to use Obama's upsurge in youth voting to carry them last year.

I posted this before but I'll post it again. They tried to latch onto his message while distancing themselves as far away from Obama as possible:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/15/AR2010081502551.html

Democratic National Committee Chairman Tim Kaine made clear in an interview with "Fox & Friends" last week that he thinks candidates distancing themselves from the president -- and from high-profile congressional leaders such as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi -- are making the wrong move. "I can tell you Democrats who kind of are afraid to be who they are, or pushing back on their leaders, I think they're crazy," Kaine said.

And yet, in campaigns across the country, many Democrats are doing just that.

Part of the reason the democrats lost as bad as they did in 2010 is because they wanted nothing to do with the most popular in their roster: Obama. They didn't want him campaigning with them and they didn't want him referenced while telling voters about their local candidates.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Shit you're right, Corbyn didn't resolve homelessness yet better run a centrist next time

I'm saying that members of the other parties jumping on board to help victims of a high profile incident isn't going to translate into actually passing parts of the labour manifesto, and for you to act like it's a policy win for labour is kinda dumb!

 

[Mammoth Jones]

No one markets to them. No one tries to inform them.

Young people don't watch the nightly new or late night talk shows. They're on the internet. Dabbing with Ellen and talking about Pokemon Go doesn't do shit.

Edit: I'm not saying younger people are what you should count on, but bringing in as many people as possible is generally a good idea. I'm not even asking for the Dems to change their policies. A message change is what they need more than anything.

Daily show did messaging to that demographic for years. I know it's not the same after Stewart left but last I check young people still on social media sharing political posts.

I get your premise but it seems to me they are more informed now than ever especially with the internet. No excuse to stay home on election day. Unless you just don't believe anything will change or its all the same.

 

[VendettaRed07]

Like, real life, actual Socialist parties, ones that actually run on a Socialist platform and not Soft Capitalism, have been running in elections for quite some time and haven't gotten much traction.

Yet they haven't been embraced by a national party like the Democratic party. And any young hopefuls in the Party, like the first thing they are told is that going in that direction is too unpalatable to Americans so don't do it if you want any chance to win.

Or maybe they are told by their donors to not support things that would help working and middle class Americans because it would negatively effective their bottom line. I think the party needs to stop pretending like the pro-corporate approach they have been deploying has not significantly undercut their position because who generally funds their expensive campaign's interests runs in direct contrast with their voting base

Karen Handel, on a debate stage, said that she does not support a livable wage. She didn't try to obfuscate what a livable wage was, and she didn't try to avoid an answer. She just said "No". And she won without it eeen being a squeaker.

A lot of people don't advocate for a socialist message because they know it simply doesn't resonate in conservative communities across the US.

Maybe it was unwinnable, but something has to change because the current approach is to seemingly run candidates who attempt to appeal to a middle that doesn't exist and in the process fail to appeal to either. As was said in poligaf I fail to see how a economic platform that is more convincing than " I'm a democrat who will lower the deficit" is a terrible suggestion.

Handel was a candidate bought out by special interests who will do nothing but enforce regressive policies that will screw over the people in that district, but Ossoff couldn't really take her to task for that because he was bank rolled by special interests as well. I think a good starting point is to focus on this because money seemingly has diminishing returns and seems sort of redundant because half the time you are spending it on ads that do nothing but defend you from the negatives that come with being tied to the people who invest crazy amounts of money into you.

 

[mo60]

if we could get youth turnout to 72% in the US republicans would never win another national election again, but nobody wants to run on policies that young people care about

Youth turnout was nowhere near 70% in the UK election. It was more like 60% if I recall. Higher youth turnout plus the tories pissing off people that don't typically vote that are not younger helped labour do better then expected.

 

[Grizzle_Dat]

Young people don't vote, and they're the ones who care about it

I didn't cast my first vote until I was 40. Just never gave a crap at the time and nothing anyone said prior was going to change it.

 

[pigeon]

if we could get youth turnout to 72% in the US republicans would never win another national election again, but nobody wants to run on policies that young people care about

You heard it here first, young people don't care about fighting racism and sexism

 

[Autodidact]

You heard it here first, young people don't care about fighting racism and sexism

Well, they care, but just not enough to vote.

 

[balladofwindfishes]

I didn't cast my first vote until I was 40. Just never gave a crap at the time and nothing anyone said prior was going to change it.

My mom didn't cast her first vote until last year, and she's in her mid 50s.

 

[shamanick]

I'm saying that members of the other parties jumping on board to help victims of a high profile incident isn't going to translate into actually passing parts of the labour manifesto, and for you to act like it's a policy win for labour is kinda dumb!

I said that they were influencing policy, and this would never have happened without the unprecedented strong showing in the election. Keep moving goalposts though

 

[Kid Kamikaze10]

You heard it here first, young people don't care about fighting racism and sexism

They do, but they twist their minds up with excuses as to why politics will never change, everhone sucks, etc. Etc.

 

[Raven117]

You not going to steal The GOP base, they came out and voted for a person that said "I don't believe in a livable wage"

I sadly think this is true. IMO, Democrats need to focus on how to energize their own base not pick off some moderate "independents" or "republicans."

 

[Mammoth Jones]

There was a glimmer of hope right after Clinton lost that democrats would do a good hard retrospective. Instead they hopped right back in the bubble and just articulated outrage at Trump. And sure it's justified as he truly is a terrible person and president but that's not enough to get votes.

Gotta get out that bubble, fam...

 

[Kthulhu]

My mom didn't cast her first vote until last year, and she's in her mid 50s.

I didn't cast my first vote until I was 40. Just never gave a crap at the time and nothing anyone said prior was going to change it.

Y'all know this is anecdotal right?

 

[Slayven]

We still rerunning the primary? You would think after last week people would even more over it. If Pelosi is radioactive, Sanders is now antimatter

 

[Raven117]

Well, they care, but just not enough to vote.

This. All there is to it. While its fun to post on message boards, facebook, maybe even pick up a sign for a protest, when it comes down to the one thing that matters, voting, young people don't care enough. You don't have to look past the numbers to draw this conclusion.

 

[Autumn Wind]

What about Sherrod Brown?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zhXtvpoBhI

 

[TurnipFritters]

I said that they were influencing policy, and this would never have happened without the unprecedented strong showing in the election. Keep moving goalposts though

Ok, fine, you win. Labour did a great job of doing a good will showing where everyone involved can pat themselves on the back and act like they're Doing Real Change.

You, uh, are aware of the intrinsic purpose of that election being called in the first place and how a labour surge completely undermined it?

I am, but that still doesn't put labour into a position to actually pass their platform.

There was a glimmer of hope right after Clinton lost that democrats would do a good hard retrospective. Instead they hopped right back in the bubble and just articulated outrage at Trump. And sure it's justified as he truly is a terrible person and president but that's not enough to get votes.

Gotta get out that bubble, fam...

I mean, sort of the issue with this is that Clinton did get the votes, just not the right votes in the right places by a fairly small margin.

 

[Trouble]

We still rerunning the primary? You would think after last week people would even more over it. If Pelosi is radioactive, Sanders is now antimatter

We've blown past that to UK politics now. I have no idea what's going on any more.

 

[Autodidact]

We've blown past that to UK politics now. I have no idea what's going on any more.

The power of ~~~PELOSI~~~. Just ask Karen Handel.

 

[ahoyhoy]

i still don't understand why legalization of weed isn't a surefire policy win for democrats

I suppose it's an ace in the hole move.

You can only really legalize weed once, and I figure they might think it's best served waiting until it's needed to swing an election.

 

[Deleted member 231381]

You heard it here first, young people don't care about fighting racism and sexism

Probably true. Now what?

 

[Pedrito]

Republicans are winning with garbage candidates and garbage policies. It shows that the quality of the candidate and the message ain't that important at the end of the day. Sure, it would help in Michigan, but not in Montana or Georgia.

You can only do so much when you're dealing with this kind of electorate. The city-rural/north-south divide is present in many other western countries and we're seeing a similar phenomenon where you can't seem to get through to these people no matter what. It just happens that the way things are designed, they hold way more power in the US.

 

[TurnipFritters]

We've blown past that to UK politics now. I have no idea what's going on any more.

Frankly can't wait to hop over to French politics where we'll discover that Neoliberal Business As Usual is actually a winning plan.

 

[Slayven]

May is fucking around trying to get a belligerent DUP in for a majority but we're gonna act like that election meant nothing, sure



It's impossible not to look like a Bernard Brother cultist on GAF when you get posts like this and have to say something lmao

We're talking about the most popular politician among Dems, that's the context this conversation exists in FFS

The people online who have a blood pact to eliminate Sanders from the historical record are in a very small minority.

All he does with this popularity is shit on people willing to put the work in.

 

[shamanick]

Frankly can't wait to hop over to French politics where we'll discover that Neoliberal Business As Usual is actually a winning plan.

With record low turnout running against a fascist

 

[CrocMother]

Frankly can't wait to hop over to French politics where we'll discover that Neoliberal Business As Usual is actually a winning plan.

France is a model for creating a third party

 

[Frozenprince]

With record low turnout running against a fascist

Hmm.

Hmmmm.

 

[mo60]

With record low turnout running against a fascist

Actually turnout was not record low in the presidential runoff. I think the lowest turnout has ever been in a presidential runoff in france is around 68%

Edit: The lowest turnout has ever been in a french presidential election runoff in the 5th republic was 69% in 1969.

 

[Maxim726X]

And that's because people who bother to vote are largely wealthy and white. The code to crack is actually getting those non-voters in, instead of blowing millions on flipping people who listen to Rush on their drive to their middle manager job.

Yeah, trying to get the half of the country who can't bothered to vote seems like a good strategy... But if the last election didn't get them out- What would?

 

[Trouble]

France is a model for creating a third party

France isn't first past the post. Plurality voting systems don't encourage two large parties like FPTP.

Also En Marche! is more like 24th party.

 

[Zyae]

Apparently you cant criticize Pelosi even as a dem/liberal without being called sexist.

 

[Maxim726X]

Apparently you cant criticize Pelosi even as a dem/liberal without being called sexist.

Was called that multiple times in this very thread.

But to be honest, I expect it now so it doesn't really bother me anymore. It's like a reflex for most liberals at this point.

 

[pigeon]

Apparently you cant criticize Pelosi even as a dem/liberal without being called sexist.

You could, people just usually don't.

For example, step one would be having an actual substantive critique.

 

[TurnipFritters]

With record low turnout running against a fascist

And yet he actually won.

You're being *extra* smug about this but it's not like that move didn't work in the US as recently as Bill Clinton. The problem is, it isn't working as well now yet the party refuses to move on. Even when they're incredibly out of pace with their constituents, like with health care.

I'll be #real with you for a moment: I think treating the UK and French elections as a template for how America should move forward is very dumb, and my post about France was mostly mocking that kind of discourse. I do think it's interesting to see people (usually Americans) explain how Labour is a huge win for The True Leftist Revolution while En Marche is a rejection of Centrism though!

 

[Trouble]

Apparently you cant criticize Pelosi even as a dem/liberal without being called sexist.

You can if you have actual reasons.

 

[pigeon]

Probably true. Now what?

Uh, take a gun safety class, I guess?

 

[LinkAndEpona]

Apparently you cant criticize Pelosi even as a dem/liberal without being called sexist.

Yup, this is a significant issue the democrats have to overcome.

 

[TurnipFritters]

Pelosi said she was a capitalist, when she should have been like Bernie and basically all leftwing parties in Europe and called herself a socialist while still pushing capitalist policies.

 

[water_wendi]

Couldnt even make it past the first page. i dont want Pelosi gone because im taking orders from the Republican hate machine. i want her gone because shes incompetent and tone deaf to the country. In the few days after the election when she said that change wasnt needed i knew then and there the Democratic Party was dead.

 

[Autodidact]

Pelosi said she was a capitalist, when she should have been like Bernie and basically all leftwing parties in Europe and called herself a socialist while still pushing capitalist policies.

Socialist women establish abortion communes.

 

[Maxim726X]

I dunno maybe one where the liberal candidate winning isn't treated like a foregone conclusion?

You can't possibly think that people stayed home because they thought Clinton was going to win, do you?

She was the second most unpopular candidate in the history of US politics. Maybe you can start there instead.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Pelosi was born in damn 1940, lol. It's time for some new blood.