TurnipFritters
Member
And the real true Progressive Dream is that the 1% pay a marginally higher tax rate.
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NYT: Democrats: Our Brand Is Worse Than Trump
- Thread starter Saucycarpdog
- Start date
And the real true Progressive Dream is that the 1% pay a marginally higher tax rate.
So they would be doubling down on a losing strategy.
It's important to focus on these IMO but the key factor they are missing is not attacking the business leaders and shining a light on how much a class structure exists.
The number of small donations pouring should be a strong hint they can get funding without relying so much on the financial leaders of this country. Their own greed is getting in the way.
Their own inability to talk about class makes it impossible already to talk about identity and preserving independence from the capricious and fascist goals of those who want to enforce a white washed reformation christian society.
Frozenprince
Banned
Bernie was treated with fucking kids gloves. You think the way Clinton campaigned against him was bad? It wasn't even as vicious as her and Obama were to one another.
wesleyshark
Banned
I have an ongoing concern they aren't going to learn the correct lessons from this and push further to the right to continuously fail at trying to win over disillusioned Trump voters, who really have no interest in voting for an establishment Democrat.
yeah the clinton campaign was pretty bad
jakonovski
Member
Even that much wealth redistribution seems beyond the pale, even for dems.
TurnipFritters
Member
This is very interesting phrasing because it implies that disillusioned Trump voters will vote for far left candidates.
Yeah, you'd have to be a remarkably terrible candidate to actually lose to the Clinton campaign.
Even if the facists win and this country goes full on shit hole I would still rather do the right thing and support leaders who did the right thing and the correct policies for this country instead of giving in.
I think we take the advancement of civil rights for granted because our side has been winning those battles for the last few decades (it was never easy but we were generally winning). We seem to be going in the wrong direction now and maybe equality and the advancements of civil rights is a way to lose elections, but I would still rather go down swinging instead of capitulating to the facists.
If you don't succeed. Fail, fail again.
wesleyshark
Banned
They won't. But the far left will increasingly sit out on a Democratic party that keeps pushing further to the right.
Frozenprince
Banned
And we're BACK to the primary.
This cycle needs to die.
This cycle needs to die.
Autodidact
Banned
I must have imagined that time when Clinton blasted white supremacy and inequity in the justice system. I must have imagined her support for women's rights. I must have imagined her support for LGBT rights and her criticizing Trump's bigoted comments toward Muslims.
I'm just a dumb little gay minority person who can't see what's good for me. If I could, I would've supported Bernie.
The way I see it Trump is already campaigning to those bases and getting out the vote by existing.
My point was that he did well with the base that would've won him the election. I wasn't implying he could have won the primary off white working class vote.
I live in a liberal state, but our upstate is basically Alabama here. I know these people that had trump and bernie as their main candidates. It didn't have anything to do with exclusionary shit, they wanted somone who could address the fact they had crappy jobs without blaming themselves.
When they looked at trump they thought they could do better financially by removing illegals and keeping jobs in America.
When they looked at Bernie they thought they could do better by raising taxes on the rich and giving the middle class a tax cut.
When they looked at Hillary...there was no unified catchy message about the economy from her. She was defending Wall St speeches and getting huge donations from banks at the time.
Poor GRIMES
Banned
I see the Bernie stans made another DNC thread about him
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
Sanders, Biden, and Obama are the only three popular politicians in the country right now. All three have one thing in common, authenticity or the perception of it.
Autodidact
Banned
Of course. We uppity centrist identity politicking Democrats rejected the savior, so we must be punished forevermore.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
To the question of who replaces Pelosi, what about Adam Schiff?
At least he can give a decent interview.
At least he can give a decent interview.
She ignored several battleground states that she performed poorly in during the primaries. You may have liked her and her positions, but the campaign was pretty bad.
(To be fair, Sanders' was too)
Most of the "Bernie stans" I know care a lot more about policy than the man
Father_Brain
Banned
The notion that redistributionist economic policies would disproportionately benefit young, white heterosexual males is objectively false.
Like, it couldn't possibly be more false.
jakonovski
Member
Why is it so important to make Bernie into the antichrist? Policy wise he was literally just a moderate social democrat, the likes of which have made western and northern Europe into a pretty good place to live.
Mahadev
Member
Sure, kids gloves, that's why she used every resource of the entire DNC against him or why corporate media treated him as if he's not even a legitimate candidate.
i'd suggest someone who isn't a hawk but that's not something that really exists in either party
Donald Trump is massively unpopular and lies like a rug. The perception of authenticity doesn't correlate with political success.
He's fine. Lots of experience, has clout.
Why can't it push left and right? You know, a 50 state strategy?
Let's be real, the platform has been moving left since 2004. Pelosi herself pushed hard for a Single Payer option ACA before the votes fell out.
The party isn't moving right, and there are no plans to move right. The debate is about tactics and how to win a majority back so the platform can be implemented.
Didn't Bernie get more votes from young black people than Clinton?
TurnipFritters
Member
Mostly it's just folks rolling their eyes at people acting like he's this magical hero who stands for all that is good and right in the world, and how people who like him demonize The Evil Corporate Democrats even though Sanders usually votes alongside them.
Father_Brain
Banned
Bernie personality cultists definitely do exist, but they have no real power or influence within the Democratic party and the various institutions affiliated with it. Which is decidedly not the case for the ardently anti-Bernie team, despite the fact that they represent no more than 8-13% of the party.
Frozenprince
Banned
Mid terms are going to be brutal.
hammysaurusrex
Member
Pretty much every broad approach has been attempted at this point. There're campaigns that were Bernie-anoited, campaigns that were anti-Trump focused, campaigns that positioned themselves as far away from the DNC as possible, etc.
I'm amazed at this point anyone can look at things and really think there's some elegant solution at the national level, as if this is some math problem.
I'm amazed at this point anyone can look at things and really think there's some elegant solution at the national level, as if this is some math problem.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Sanders has real issues that shouldn't be ignored but it is inaccurate to say that his base was entirely white men
if you want to be accurate, you should say that he failed to reach black and older Latino voters, unless you want to pretend all of his successes with Muslim, Native American, and Asian American voters just don't exist.
sturgboski
Member
Finally someone gets it. Print that as a slogan and we are sure to win elections. Christ. Why is the left the only group with these fucking purity tests? Look it's quite simple: one side actively hates everything you stand for. Vote against that for the one party who is at least leaning in your direction. Is it ideal? No. At least protection and incrementalism is far better than going decades back.
Cymbal Head
Banned
Democrats need to forget about trying to peel off moderate republicans and focus on activating groups that normally sit out elections, especially young people, by pushing a message that excites them. A living wage, universal health care, affordable education. Make the rich pay their fair share. Black, Latino, gay and trans rights.
The focus should not be on red-herring reasonableness or on how scared everyone should be of Trump. Stop branding yourself as the party of incremental change.
To the extent that entrenched interests, be they big donors or party leaders, stand in the way of getting that message out, they are the problem.
The focus should not be on red-herring reasonableness or on how scared everyone should be of Trump. Stop branding yourself as the party of incremental change.
To the extent that entrenched interests, be they big donors or party leaders, stand in the way of getting that message out, they are the problem.
Bernie is quite frankly a very weak left candidate, but it was refreshing to see someone running who wasn't just alt-Republican
excelsiorlef
Member
legacyzero
Banned
You must. It be riding in he same boat I am. I voted for Hillary knowing it had to be done. But I'm also not willfully ignorant of her flaws. And if you ( in the same paragraph) complain about feeling like you're camped with the GOP for not supporting Sanders and then complain about raised taxes, you walked into that one.
The reality is, he's the most popular politician in America right now. So is most of his policies. The signs are there. I'm really not sure what you're arguing.
Might be a bad time to pull him off the Intel Committee.
Autodidact
Banned
I feel the same way. If we got this close in this districts, then Issa in CA, Comstock in VA, McSally in AZ, etc., will be toast.
Frozenprince
Banned
Yeah if you're seeing elections and thinking any Dem that's not Bernie or better is an "alt-republican" you are ignorant.
Democratic policy and republican policy are not "closer than farther".
Look at Kansas versus New York if you need a fucking example.
VendettaRed07
Member
Perhaps because every time someone mentions it would be a good idea to run on a strong pro labor, socialist platform in areas we haven't tried because you know.. No one else is suggesting any other decent ideas it just turns into "Well Bernout lost so stfu", even if you aren't advocating clones of his to run across the country and saw many flaws in his approach
If people want to keep knocking the idea of large economic reforms being a direction to go people should probably suggest other ideas instead of just whining.
We are in a transition period right now and we hold no power. We have a chance to influence where the party wants to go and I think a manifesto that focuses on Civil Rights & Labor, that moves away from corporate ties and interests and makes legitimate attempts to clean up conflicts of interest that is killing Washington is a better plan than just telling people to shut up and vote for whatever D even if they suck or don't offer anything. It doesn't work and will continue to not work.
Trump's base still sees him as honest and loves him. That's all that matters in that regard. Even if it didn't, the GOP values party loyalty to a fault. As long as he won the primary he was gonna get votes.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
Southerners is what I meant by 'proud Americans'
We should not be complacent.
I agree that there are positives to take away from this but we can't relax.
I was exaggerating but your example is more indicative of regional politics than party policy
The House passed a bill that would have disenfranchised 24 million Americans from Health Insurance. The House Democrats all opposed that bill.
The Alt-Republicans in government are currently one of the things trying to protect us from getting fucked in the ass.
mashoutposse
Ante Up
Do the Democrats have a discernible brand beyond, "We're not Trump"? As a casual observer, I don't know what these guys stand for beyond my assumption that they're on the opposite side of wherever the Republicans are (the Republicans have done a far better job of clearly broadcasting what they're about).