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[DJ12]

While it seems that way, Sony needs competition too. Microsoft just isn't competition. Nintendo could step in but lol. PC could easily compete if non-PC people enjoyed PC gaming and they could get their ports to run well.

I want MS to continue but fix their management. Phil need needs to go. He's absolutely trash.

Another player will fill the gap should one drop out.

Maybe they'll do a better job.

Wouldn't be difficult, let's be honest.

 

[PanzerCute]

This all sounds pretty good for xbox tbh. Being 1/3 to 1/2 as sucessful as Playstation is amazing, who wouldnt want that? I am jealous as fuck.

One can really make billions and still be called a failiure. damn, i wouldnt want to be your kid.

This is not the problem and not what OP is saying. Yes, they have billions in revenue, but if you need to spend 20 billions to get 16 billions in revenue, you still lose 4 billions.

And MS, strangely, never communicates their profit. Which basically implies there are none.

Is that so hard to understand?

And no, I dont give a damn about console warring and I have a Series X that I adore.

 

[Astray]

Heisenberg007 I've written something on this idea yesterday, I think it's not an easy decision at all, but also not impossible.

I've honestly considered the possibility of them folding up the console business, and while it's got a non-zero chance (and can even feel likely at times), I think it's also a very hard decision to make.

Canning a console business is a hard, hard decision, especially when things are digital, and consumers depend on your continued server availability to be able to use items they bought with their cold hard cash. Just look at the furore that happened when Sony wanted to sunset the PS3 store, a store that's now two gens old! Backcompat is great for customer retention, but it also makes this problem far greater too, because now you have to keep more games available for download, not to mention cloud saves etc.

It's also a very, very permanent decision. Like, theoretically, say that MSFT goes full 3rd party, and then later down the line decides to make a comeback (a luxury that doesn't exist for Sega or Neo Geo for example), it will be a very, very uphill task to convince customers to trust them again and rebuild ecosystems etc.

Now the weird thing is, a lot of those issues can be either mitigated or completely resolved because of Microsoft's current initiatives:

• Allowing people to play Xbox exclusives day 1 on PCs creates an incentive to go there permanently instead of buying an Xbox (mainly due to additional game selection, emulation, productivity boosts etc), so less consumers to disappoint.
• Gamepass is an excellent value, and it's increasingly incentivizing people to stop buying games on Xbox and wait for them to land on the service, which means that their ownership growth on the platform is actually slowing! Again, customers would be far less disappointed if you shuttered a service where they bought less games than when you let them buy more.
• Play anywhere means that even existing gamepass subscribers can be "shepherded" onto other platforms that have gamepass under the same subscription accounts. Like if they manage to get Gamepass on Sony or Nintendo devices, then you can just have users keep up their subs and just use other manufacturer's consoles (PS5/6, Switch 2 etc). The ActiBlizz acquisition feels like a very big move in that direction to me.

TL;DR: Shuttering a console biz isn't easy, and a lot of the recent Microsoft moves can be either seen as them increasing their investment in Xbox or as ways to slowly pivot out of it into more of a services and software type of gaming business, it's too early to tell tbh.

 

[Radical_3d]

Would you say… they shot themselves in the foot?

 

[Heisenberg007]

That is not close to reality.

In that bet by Phil Spencer, the XBOX console continued to be in a fundamental place in the strategy and there you have the strong investment in Hardware with XBO S, XBO X, XSS and XSX...... and already announced that there will be a new launch of hardware.

Among other things because, whether you accept it or not, the XBOX console is the main driver of income, subscriptions and microtransactions. Xbox console is even the main advertising medium for Gamepass.

According to your argument, doing without hardware would save the losses of its manufacture... but you forget about the income it generates and channels.

Cloud gaming is still in its infancy and its effect on revenue is negligible. When is cloud gaming a real competitor vs physical hardware? So not only will the XBOX console be in danger...... the competing consoles will also be in danger.

MS is in a situation where it is able to support Xbox console, PC and cloud gaming at the same time even though its object is to sell software. At a time when even Steam launches its own hardware with little hope of being successful...

To say that XBOX console that has a minimum base of ~50 million users in the worst situation is expendable in the short term is

From here, I repeat again and I'm sorry but it's my feeling. The thread is an excuse to manifest a desire and a narrative......

If we were to believe that, it means that XBS was supposed to sell significantly better than Xbox One, right?

If Microsoft didn't like Xbox One sales, how could they like Xbox Series sales that are very similar to Xbox One launch aligned? This is (1) despite investing more than $10 billion in acquisitions for the division and (2) selling a $300 console, usually at a discount at just $229.

 

[ResilientBanana]

Microsoft makes billions with Xbox. You don’t just remove billions from your pocketbook. This thread should be locked

 

[Heisenberg007]

Heisenberg007 I've written something on this idea yesterday, I think it's not an easy decision at all, but also not impossible.

Thank you for adding this to the thread.

I really liked your point about them not coming back and people not trusting them once again. The finality of this decision will weigh heavily for sure.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Microsoft makes billions with Xbox. You don’t just remove billions from your pocketbook. This thread should be locked

They do. $16 billion in revenue. But that's just revenue. You don't know how much they spend to make those $16 billion.

What if the operating expenses are $30 billion, for example? Will you say it makes sense to keep going if the net loss is $14 billion per year?

 

[Nautilus]

Heisenberg007 I've written something on this idea yesterday, I think it's not an easy decision at all, but also not impossible.

I think that, if MS really decides that it will leave the hardware business, all they gonna do is simply not make a new one, up the price of the current one as to not lose more money on it(And stop production, obviously) and just ride the Series for a few years until it finally pulls the plug, as any company pulls the plug on old products. And not do that suddenly.

 

[DenchDeckard]

I think Microsoft sells the xbox devision to Tim sweeney and he gets to make an entire brand the fortnite box....he then takes over the entertainment industry, with his beady eyes on the prize of world domination.

 

[Black_Stride]

I think Microsoft sells the xbox devision to Tim sweeney and he gets to make an entire brand the fortnite box....he then takes over the entertainment industry, with his beady eyes on the prize of world domination.

Dont even joke about that.

 

[kruis]

Seems pretty good

Revenues are only one part of the picture, there are investment/manufacturing/development costs and other expenses too. How much were the profits? What are the growth projections? Is continuing in the consumer market with Xbox consoles/games a worthwhile strategy for a company that makes most almost all of its money in the enterprise world with office, server and cloud solutions?

 

[Heisenberg007]

This all sounds pretty good for xbox tbh. Being 1/3 to 1/2 as sucessful as Playstation is amazing, who wouldnt want that? I am jealous as fuck.

One can really make billions and still be called a failiure. damn, i wouldnt want to be your kid.

lol

No, jokes apart, XGS is way too big now -- even bigger than PlayStation. If PlayStation makes $25 billion in revenue and manages only $3 billion in net profit, you can imagine how much profitable (or unprofitable) XGS would be at only $16 billion in revenue and by selling less than half of PlayStation, despite being bigger than them in size.

Just because they are half as successful does not mean that they are profitable.

 

[Aion002]

Remove some words like game pass and cloud from your post and it becomes the same doom and gloom that people has been posting since the beginning of Xbox.


Killing Xbox seems to be best thing ever for MS since 2001, according to some gamers and it's always the same arguments: "Playstation sells more" "Xbox loses money", "MS should stick to software" and so on.


Anyway... Who knows... As I said, following that logic Xbox should've been dead a long time ago.

 

[shaddam]

They deserved the Ls because they dropped the ball around the kinect gimmick phase, xbone was a disaster and now the only thing they are doing is gamepass and buying studios. I am sure they have already very talented people, but they are really mismanaged. Hopefully they wont exit the hardware market, sony and nintendo need to be kept in check.

 

[GHound]

I think Microsoft sells the xbox devision to Tim sweeney and he gets to make an entire brand the fortnite box....he then takes over the entertainment industry, with his beady eyes on the prize of world domination.

Tim Meanie wishes he had that much money on hand.

 

[DaleinCalgary]

MS won't abandon Xbox no matter how much it might lose. It's the only thing that gives it a cool edge in the company as it's just a dry software/server company.

 

[CuNi]

People promised me the crazy would end with the merger or block thereof.
Why is it just getting worse!?

 

[Darsxx82]

If we were to believe that, it means that XBS was supposed to sell significantly better than Xbox One, right?

If Microsoft didn't like Xbox One sales, how could they like Xbox Series sales that are very similar to Xbox One launch aligned? This is (1) despite investing more than $10 billion in acquisitions for the division and (2) selling a $300 console, usually at a discount at just $229.

The investment is not made with the short-term success of the XBOX console in mind. It is made with the medium-long term in mind. MS may not be happy with the XSeries sales and would prefer another situation, but it is the same MS that knows that much of this situation is due to the difficulties of maintaining a game-first release cadence and the ABK process also affected.

Coming to believe that MS is not going to wait and see what results it can achieve when its studies start to launch its products is absurd.

Where was that that MS can sustain losses?? It's funny that among your arguments against the 10-year COD proposal to Sony, you pointed out that it was insufficient because after that time MS could make COD exclusive on its next-generation console ... Now you're here with a thread where You claim that MS is going to liquidate XBOX console imminently and there will be no next generation

 

[onQ123]

I think the blocked deal actually keeps the Xbox Consoles alive a little longer than with the deal.

That deal was actually their escape into Mobile gaming & 3rd Party

 

[feynoob]

Nintendo always stopped any of the big three from doing anything they want. MS was always just an asterisk, never really a factor(Outside of the 7th gen, the only time they were truly competitive).

People need to take Nintendo out of this equation.

Right now, Nintendo isn't a competition, due to their hardware limitations.

 

[Hunnybun]

One of two things will happen:

1. Phil or one of the Xbox higher ups will be fired.

2. Xbox will leave the console business and become a 3rd party publisher.

I just can’t see them continuing down the same path because clearly it isn’t working. Hardware is down 30% and a 3%-4% grow in revenue is nothing to celebrate, when you consider the amount of money they have invested with there last billon dollar investment seeming to fall apart. It don’t take a rocket scientist to see they have major issues to fix.

23 studios but nothing to show for it, it’s puzzling that Phil and the same team is still employed after all these setbacks.

This is the thing that blows my mind. Spencer has been there for about TEN years now, and they still haven't fixed the exclusive software pipeline. Has there even been a single year in all that time when they've released, say, 3 decent AAA games? Something which really should be the bare minimum.

Almost everything they announce seems to end up in development hell. That's a sackable offence on its own.

 

[gothmog]

People promised me the crazy would end with the merger or block thereof.
Why is it just getting worse!?

Because those statements were probably made by people expecting an outcome that didn't happen.

 

[Nautilus]

People need to take Nintendo out of this equation.

Right now, Nintendo isn't a competition, due to their hardware limitations.

MS and Sony wished Nintendo was out of the picture. Instead, they have to deal with(what is likely) the most popular and successful console of all time.

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

Xboxdoomed.

 

[feynoob]

MS and Sony wished Nintendo was out of the picture. Instead, they have to deal with(what is likely) the most popular and successful console of all time.

Let's cma and ftc about that.

 

[Nautilus]

Let's cma and ftc about that.

What?

 

[XXL]

I think there are major changes coming to Xbox. Things are falling apart over there, if you can see that you're blind or fanboying out.

 

[CLW]

Spencer is a giant fake douchebag that is flat out AWFUL at his job. If MS wasn’t one of the largest companies on Earth Xbox would have folded LONG ago.

 

[Adam_802]

Lol sure OP, whatever you say.

This thread is peak fanboy wishful thinking. MS will not get out of the hardware business anytime soon. Xbox hardware is where most GP subs come from, and also PC is not a replacement or Xbox. Many people like to play on Console.

 

[feynoob]

What?

Nintendo systems doesn't have the capability to run high end games, which the market demands.
Until Nintendo provides that, they aren't a competition to Sony.

People who want to play GTA and cod will simply buy PS, if there is no Xbox.

 

[Kdad]

I think Microsoft sells the xbox devision to Tim sweeney and he gets to make an entire brand the fortnite box....he then takes over the entertainment industry, with his beady eyes on the prize of world domination.

With the backing of Tencent I fully expect an EpicDeck if not a full on console. Logitech was rumoured to be 'in play' for a take over last year...Epic could buy their way into hardware.

 

[GenericUser]

Microsoft / ABK acquisition was blocked by the CMA (UK).

Ah, I see. I don't care.

 

[Moriarty1889]

So many doom and gloom articles of Xbox going under over the years and yet here they are. MS are already working on their next console. They have a lot more money than Sony or Nintendo and that matters. The AB deal being blocked may be what finally lights a fire under them to turn things around and use the 23 studios they do have to start making good games. If anything they should stop putting their AAA first party games on gamepass day one and let them sell and make some money for sequels. Killing their own games by letting people rent them has finally opened their eyes to admitting they don’t make money that way. Sony makes it look so easy and that is why they continue to dominate. I think Xbox will come away from this with a bit more resolve and realize that they need to rethink gamepass and actually spend some of that money they saved on new games. I could be completely wrong on all of this but this is just my thought on the matter. Good day to all!

 

[Tommi84]

Give it 2-3 years and post this again. By that time, Xbox will have issues, if they don't address any of your concerns.

this is what I read for the past... how many? EIGHT years? This year maybe not, but the next, THE NEXT year will be glorious. So far it's still the same.

 

[Rubik8]

If Starfield doesn’t perform by significantly moving the needle (manifesting in a big jump in console sales and/or GamePass subscribers) then that may be the beginning of the end… of this generation. MS isn’t going to get out of the hardware business altogether.

 

[feynoob]

this is what I read for the past... how many? EIGHT years? This year maybe not, but the next, THE NEXT year will be glorious. So far it's still the same.

Xbox didn't have what they have now in those 8 years.

It started in 2017, with Bethesda purchase being finalized in 2021.

MS is now more willing to invest in their gaming division, and were willing to spend 68b on activision.

These are the signs that Xbox trajectory is changing.

But as always with changes, you don't see them right away.

 

[zomboden]

If things stay on the same trajectory we are just going to see the gap between Xbox/PS widen and then after a certain point more and more third party games will skip Xbox. And after awhile you might start only seeing Xbox published games on Xbox. Eventually they stop making consoles and focus solely on PC. Maybe eventually after things settle down they publish first party games on PlayStation.

Disgusting timeline imo. As an Xbox fan I've had PS4 Pro and a PS5. And I don't think there's a single thing better about the PS5 than Xbox Series X besides 1. Haptic controller is cool but overall I like Xbox's layout better. 2. First Party games come out at a regular pace. Xbox just feels way more premium and more of a full experience to me personally. But obviously more people feel that same exact way about PlayStation.

 

[Nautilus]

Nintendo systems doesn't have the capability to run high end games, which the market demands.
Until Nintendo provides that, they aren't a competition to Sony.

People who want to play GTA and cod will simply buy PS, if there is no Xbox.

The Switch is on its way to be the best selling console of all time, even when it only has 10% to 20% of the high end games.

So see it like that: Even without those games, Nintendo is selling far more consoles than MS and Sony ever dreamed of, while having a healthy profit on each console from day one. This is something that Sony and MS could never do.

And Nintendo kicked Sony out of Japan, the second biggest country for videogames.

And that is all what the market decided. After all, people chose to buy Nintendo products, even without having a lot of the High end games.

Now imagine this: Power gains are becoming less and less important, and the gap between Nintendo and its competitors are becomming smaller and smaller.If Sony and MS is having this much trouble with the advantage they have now in their favor, imagine when they lose that only advantage they have?

Once the Switch 2 launches, power will probably be a non issue(Given that it will be a 10th gen system), even if the PS5 is still more powerful. Then Sony and MS will be in hot waters, more than what they are in now.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Xbox is making more revenue than ever and that’s before their acquisitions have even really begun paying off, but I’m sure they will fold any day now.

 

[zomboden]

Xbox is making more revenue than ever and that’s before their acquisitions have even really begun paying off, but I’m sure they will fold any day now.

Making more revenue but the consoles aren't selling. People saying 25M game pass is split 15M PC 10M Console. Hardware down 30%.

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Another thread. Another misconception about revenue/profit. Revenue is meaningless metric if you spend 20bns to earn 10.

For years now, we're not getting any meaningful numbers and data from Xbox Division for a reason. Nin/Sony are always happy to share net profit and shipped/sold units despite some wonky quarters and missed projections. We don't even know anything substantual about XO generation, like LTD sales in hw/sw, let alone anything remotely useful about the current state of XSX/XSS. That's because since RRoD disaster Xbox is bleeding money. The MS consumer ambitions is the only thing that is keeping both Xbox and Surface afloat, any other poorer company would've sold off those divisions years ago (just ask Vaio). Also Xbox Division was reshuffled inside MS like multiple times to hide or obfuscate the bleeding behind some generalizations in the sheets.

Also, depsite some drama, I think OP is on the money with the take that MS will be way better off with being a huge 3rd party publisher than a platform holder. Even Sega survived the transition despite the lack of Nadella's infinite money cheats.

 

[Aaron Olive]

I do wonder if no multimillion bangers emerges in the next 3-4 years from the 30 Xbox game studios would they consider selling the Xbox division like Sony sold it's Vaio computer division and who could be the buyer? Microsoft can afford to throw billions of dollars away at the Xbox game division for now but it isn't smart business and something or someone's gonna give.

Microsoft has 4 years left in this gen to right the inept ship that is the Xbox division and if they keep having declines YoY every quarter by the time the PS6 then that's it.

 

[Fahdis]

Will see all you plebs on the cloud in 5 years time!

 

[Hugare]

I want the Xbox brand strong because competition is good

I want it to go back to 360 era form.

Great new IPs, getting Final Fantasy and Metal Gear, great offerings for Xbox Live Gold and etc.

Instead of improving the basics, they chose to go with Game Pass and that is not working for them at all.

Dont know if they can steer this ship, honestly, because they've invested too much money on GP and they would have to invest billions more to change their strategy

Dont think they will end the Xbox brand or anything like that, but they will keep on failing and burning money for quite a while

 

[feynoob]

Once the Switch 2 launches, power will probably be a non issue(Given that it will be a 10th gen system), even if the PS5 is still more powerful. Then Sony and MS will be in hot waters, more than what they are in now.

This is when Nintendo is a competition.
Until then, they are a complementary system that goes with pc/Xbox/ps.

 

[quest]

I do wonder if no multimillion bangers emerges in the next 3-4 years from the 30 Xbox game studios would they consider selling the Xbox division like Sony sold it's Vaio computer division and who could be the buyer? Microsoft can afford to throw billions of dollars away at the Xbox game division for now but it isn't smart business and something or someone's gonna give.

Microsoft has 4 years left in this gen to right the inept ship that is the Xbox division and if they keep having declines YoY every quarter by the time the PS6 then that's it.

They tried to sell it off and no one wanted it. Who is going to be dumb enough to invest 10's of billions to compete with a company that drove sega, Microsoft and Nintendo from the market. There is no company waiting to save the market from a Sony monopoly if Microsoft shuts down the xbox division and sell of the assets.

 

[feynoob]

Xbox is making more revenue than ever and that’s before their acquisitions have even really begun paying off, but I’m sure they will fold any day now.

It's meaningless without steady content. That is what Xbox needs now.

 

[ResilientBanana]

They do. $16 billion in revenue. But that's just revenue. You don't know how much they spend to make those $16 billion.

What if the operating expenses are $30 billion, for example? Will you say it makes sense to keep going if the net loss is $14 billion per year?

But Revenue includes the money they've spent. So you're not entirely accurate.

 

[onQ123]

It was ever since Gamepass was released.

People are noticing it only now, because the signs are simply impossible to ignore