Yeah, like some people believe a bunch of technical buzzwords and marketing speak constitutes "innovation", there's no point arguing with those people so I'll let them be as well.
Last edited:
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Popular gaming opinions that are just....wrong
- Thread starter ProgenitorCastle
- Start date
- Social Opinion
Can you please ellaborate on how Umbran Climax is not broken? This is the first time I've seen this opinion.
MonkeyClaw36
Member
Hear, hear!
NightmareFarm
Member
Well for starters if you play on infinite climax you're only doing about a third of a single health bar against most bosses and half of a high level enemies health whilst draining all of your meter. People say it clears rooms although the only room it clears is one full of fodders like the little horse angels that would have been easy to clear out without it anyway. Enemies can slip out of it easily. If we're talking relatively, Pulleys Butterfly and Infernal Communicator are better uses of magic meter. SDT and Demon Slave is way more broken and the former has a dedicated command(judgement) which literally clears entire rooms but no one talks about that.
Last edited:
I think most of the criticism comes from how it's objectively the best usage of magic and how this makes using meter in other options like Torture Attacks, Tetsuzanko...a waste. All of this is from the perspective of trying to play the game as people expect it to play, that is, making huge combos and toying with the enemies, not on min-maxing. There were a lot of other changes that had to be done to accomodate Umbran Climax, like using bigger enemies and making them less reactive to normal hits, which instead of increasing the combat depth narrowed it all down to one single correct course of action. It also doesn't add anything "new": You still use the same moveset but it's juiced up with Wicked Weaves for every attack.
In this regard I agree with SDT, in fact I've never liked much the DT system because it's mostly a raw powerup (though it's true that it adds some properties to some moves), but I do think Demon Slave has a lot more depth than both. For starters you become vulnerable while using it, which just on its' own makes it a much more interesting system that UC and DT as now you have a negative aspect to consider (DT and UC have none). You can also buffer moves and jump back to Bayo, but if you use Wink Slave the Demon will despawn after it and the buffered actions will be lost, so in a way Bayonetta herself is debuffed while Demon Slave is active, even if the demon is not being controlled directly. In higher difficulties you also have to take care of your demon, as it's really easy for some enemies to enrage it or outright kill it (some enemies have special attacks just for this). If there is more than one big enemy, the usually best course of action is to have your demon focus on one while you take on the other. And if there are 3 or more big enemies, you really need to step up your Demon Slave game (I remember a hidden verse with 3 Beloveds that would instantly kill your demons one after another if you can't manage them correctly). The demons themselves have a lot of different attacks, special properties (you can immobilize enemies, turn them against each other, poison them...) and even interactions between them (like creating a tornado with Malphas that you set on fire with Gomorrah or Phantasmaraneae). The game's only been out for a couple of weeks, but right Demon Slaves look like a really well-thought system.
NightmareFarm
Member
>I think most of the criticism comes from how it's objectively the best usage of magic and how this makes using meter in other options like Torture Attacks, Tetsuzanko...a waste.
I already addressed this. The accessories are better options most of the time. IC drains 4x slower but does 2x as much damage within the same amount of time it is active. BC also has it's uses(can launch enemies around you in WT for like 2 or 3 orbs). Umbran Spear is still very much viable since it only costs one orb but lets you instantly teleport to an enemy. TA and Tetsus are useless but that's about it.
Also people say that but in B3 you literally only have meter for demon slave, you don't share meter with any other moves now that TAs, Tetsus, Umbran Spear, etc don't cost meter anymore.
> which instead of increasing the combat depth narrowed it all down to one single correct course of action
???
>For starters you become vulnerable while using it
Not if you just spam busted demon moves with flash slave like madamas kiss or the tornado or the spiders self destruct move.
>as it's really easy for some enemies to enrage it
I personally have only experienced this like twice and I constantly spam flash slave. You can just switch up your demons to stop this from ever happening.
>The demons themselves have a lot of different attacks, special properties (you can immobilize enemies, turn them against each other, poison them...)
Exactly. They can do broken shit like madama butterflys kiss which stuns bosses for a good 10 seconds. With UC at best you're taking like a third of a health bar then you have to wait a long time before it refills all the way back up. This is why i'm baffled when people say UC is broken yet DS isn't.
They were indeed disappointing for a lot of people who expected Ocarina of Time 2.0 as it was teased at SpaceWorld 2000.
[/QUOTE]
I said: All of this is from the perspective of trying to play the game as people expect it to play, that is, making huge combos and toying with the enemies, not on min-maxing.
[/QUOTE]
What I mean is that Umbran Climax is the only right answer, so by adding it to the game you don't have one more option in your toolsack, but instead are making that option so much better than all the rest that it becomes the only viable one. You don't need to think anything because UC is always the best choice to make when trying to clear an encounter, so choice is removed.
[/QUOTE]
You're still vulnerable, any isolated enemy attacking you from a different direction, AoE attacks, projectiles...will still hit you. And they will also cancel your active demon.
[/QUOTE]
Have played in Expert or IC? In Expert any boss can enrage or kill your demon quite easily. Some medium and big enemies also have special attacks to kill them.
I haven't tried stunlocking a boss like that, don't they develop any inmunity to the move or anything? It does seem like an oversight, I think bosses escape the spider's web more quickly the second time. In Expert and above bosses will target your demon quite aggressively and special moves like Madama's kiss take some time to come out, so unless you're setting up the move it may not be as easy to make it work as it seems.
TheDraconian
Member
NightmareFarm
Member
>I said: All of this is from the perspective of trying to play the game as people expect it to play, that is, making huge combos and toying with the enemies, not on min-maxing.
I guess if you want to do flashy combos it would bother you but I don't care too much for that, grounded gameplay works just fine for me.
>What I mean is that Umbran Climax is the only right answer, so by adding it to the game you don't have one more option in your toolsack, but instead are making that option so much better than all the rest that it becomes the only viable one. You don't need to think anything because UC is always the best choice to make when trying to clear an encounter, so choice is removed.
No it isn't. You don't need UC to do anything, you can use the accessories if you want and you don't have to do that either. Unlike Demon Slave where you are forced to use it in many verses where there is a barrier between you and a big enemy and you need to summon a demon inside the barrier to fight the enemy. Or when an enemy creates a green forcefield you have to summon a demon to break down.
>You're still vulnerable, any isolated enemy attacking you from a different direction, AoE attacks, projectiles...will still hit you. And they will also cancel your active demon.
Flash Slave doesn't make you vulnerable. How it works is you instantly summon the demon to do something then go back to whatever you were doing whilst the demon finishes that command.
Have played in Expert or IC? In Expert any boss can enrage or kill your demon quite easily. Some medium and big enemies also have special attacks to kill them.
I beat the game on Expert. Only one or two enrages. It takes very long until they become enraged and you can just switch to a different demon if they are on the verge of being enraged. I am aware of bosses being able to kill them like beast luka but the chances of this happening aren't as high if you use flash slave to briefly have the demon attack rather than manually controlling it with demon slave.
>I haven't tried stunlocking a boss like that, don't they develop any inmunity to the move or anything? It does seem like an oversight, I think bosses escape the spider's web more quickly the second time. In Expert and above bosses will target your demon quite aggressively and special moves like Madama's kiss take some time to come out, so unless you're setting up the move it may not be as easy to make it work as it seems.
No they don't develop an immunity. I spammed this over and over on the boss in the final chapter in space and it kept getting stunned. The kiss doesn't take that long to come out only like 4 seconds and it should eventually come out if you have at least half a bar.
I guess if you want to do flashy combos it would bother you but I don't care too much for that, grounded gameplay works just fine for me.
>What I mean is that Umbran Climax is the only right answer, so by adding it to the game you don't have one more option in your toolsack, but instead are making that option so much better than all the rest that it becomes the only viable one. You don't need to think anything because UC is always the best choice to make when trying to clear an encounter, so choice is removed.
No it isn't. You don't need UC to do anything, you can use the accessories if you want and you don't have to do that either. Unlike Demon Slave where you are forced to use it in many verses where there is a barrier between you and a big enemy and you need to summon a demon inside the barrier to fight the enemy. Or when an enemy creates a green forcefield you have to summon a demon to break down.
>You're still vulnerable, any isolated enemy attacking you from a different direction, AoE attacks, projectiles...will still hit you. And they will also cancel your active demon.
Flash Slave doesn't make you vulnerable. How it works is you instantly summon the demon to do something then go back to whatever you were doing whilst the demon finishes that command.
Have played in Expert or IC? In Expert any boss can enrage or kill your demon quite easily. Some medium and big enemies also have special attacks to kill them.
I beat the game on Expert. Only one or two enrages. It takes very long until they become enraged and you can just switch to a different demon if they are on the verge of being enraged. I am aware of bosses being able to kill them like beast luka but the chances of this happening aren't as high if you use flash slave to briefly have the demon attack rather than manually controlling it with demon slave.
>I haven't tried stunlocking a boss like that, don't they develop any inmunity to the move or anything? It does seem like an oversight, I think bosses escape the spider's web more quickly the second time. In Expert and above bosses will target your demon quite aggressively and special moves like Madama's kiss take some time to come out, so unless you're setting up the move it may not be as easy to make it work as it seems.
No they don't develop an immunity. I spammed this over and over on the boss in the final chapter in space and it kept getting stunned. The kiss doesn't take that long to come out only like 4 seconds and it should eventually come out if you have at least half a bar.
Last edited:
MidGenRefresh
*Refreshes biennially
"Mass Effect 2 is better than Mass Effect 1"
Perrott
Gold Member
Dude WTF.
Objectively speaking that game is badly designed (level/world layout, mechanics, quests), poorly narrated and written, and extremely inconsistent visually and graphically.
The only thing in XV that's not a trainwreck is the soundtrack.
... and even then its still one of my favorites games of the generation and one I cannot stop thinking about, which teach us the lesson that something doesn't have to be good for us to enjoy it in our own terms.
NotMyProblemAnymoreCunt
Gold Member
"Lighting is a good female protagonist."
She sucks and is one of the starting points of the Feminazi infestation in SquareEnix games
She sucks and is one of the starting points of the Feminazi infestation in SquareEnix games
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
Right.
Not right, the market was waiting for Atari again, this is proven by how close the 2600 sold in 1986 to the NES almost no one talks about. Nintendo's bad practices and blackmailing retailers (with help) led to Atari not being able to ship their consoles to more retailers, this also impacted Sega, though they shipped hundreds of thousands of consoles in 1986 and only sold 125k so they were probably in trouble from the start. The 7800 sold out it's 100,000 shipment but that's all the Atari could make in time. So with 1 million NES consoles sold, it would seem like a bloodbath until you realized Atari sold about 800-900k 2600's.
If Nintendo played fair I think there's a fair chance they would have lost, or it would have been more competitive at least.
But you are right about the policies, it permanently burned bridges with western developers compared to competing consoles even now.
This might bother some people but the NES did a lot for gaming and shaping the industry as we know it, there was nothing like Super Mario Bros on consoles in 1985, or Legend of Zelda in 1986, and the interface was very innovative for the time. I don't know how much power Nintendo had in 1986 considering the nes only had a year on the american market, but I don't think Atari had anything to compete with those games, nor do I think it would've received japanese support worth a damn were it not for Nintendo strong-arming developers. American developers had frankly nothing to do with the success of the NES, and in fact, I would say they did more harm than good for the console and the industry.
Last edited:
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
Lol
ResetEraVetVIP
Member
“The Order 1886 sucks lol”
Laptop1991
Member
Mtx and all the monetization provide more money to make the games and gaming better!.
Well, that's an integral part of why people say UC is broken. The whole franchise is designed not only to beat the enemies, but to do it in a cool way by using flashy combos. The game even nudges you into the intended way of playing it with its scoring system: You're supposed to get a lot of combo points, beat encounters quickly and not take any damage. UC allows you to bypass everything instead of engaging with the combat system more deeply: You deal more damage, can interrupt most enemy attacks, are not interrupted by enemies...What's more (and this is a BIG one) even the scoring system was changed in 2 to accomodate UC, by favouring raw damage over combos. You no longer need to use Torture Attacks, enemy weapons, taunt enemies, keep your combos alive with the guns, finish the combo strings or use different WW to reset the multiplier; You can just pop into UC, steamroll everything and get a Pure Platinum rank in combo, time and probably damage taken.
That's why people say that it's busted, because it allows you to completely bypass the way the players expected to play the game. When you compare it with 1, UC just removes options and makes combat much more simpler and less interesting. Using Pulley's Butterfly and Infernal Communicator makes it even simpler, you're just providing another way to avoid engaging with the combat system (PB simplifies defense, IC simplifies offense); You're doubling down on the problems that make people dislike UC instead of solving them.
Regarding Demon Slave, you admitted how you are using Demon Slave constantly in different ways, calling them for short attacks, managing that they don't get enraged, switching to different demons, using different moves (you at least mentioned Madama's kiss (R) and Phantasmaraneae's self-destruction (360+P))...so I guess the system is working as intended.
calistan
Member
Agree, apart from the "still fun" part. That game is an ordeal.
I gave up on it at the final boss. I could barely scrape past his first form, maybe one in three attempts, and then he transforms into a completely different boss with a fresh health bar and even more annoying attacks. By this time I'm already half dead with no chance to recharge my potions. Uninstalled for the sake of my sanity.
BbMajor7th
Member
"It's got decent writing / I was gripped by the story."
In actuality, half the lines hit the quality of a less-memorable Firefly episode and the other half were we're so terrible that my brain auto-deleted them.
In actuality, half the lines hit the quality of a less-memorable Firefly episode and the other half were we're so terrible that my brain auto-deleted them.
cartman414
Member
This. It was the same one carried over from the SG-1000.
Tams
Member
GoldenEye is a great game.
It's aged terribly, and frankly wasn't that great to play at the time.
The World is Not Enough is better and obviously Agent Under Fire is being a gen newer. Even 007 Racing is.
I just read an article waxing lyrically about GoldenEye's level design. Bollocks. The only good stuff was the Golden Gun, getting kill someone in the toilet, and Oddjob (and his hat).
It's aged terribly, and frankly wasn't that great to play at the time.
The World is Not Enough is better and obviously Agent Under Fire is being a gen newer. Even 007 Racing is.
I just read an article waxing lyrically about GoldenEye's level design. Bollocks. The only good stuff was the Golden Gun, getting kill someone in the toilet, and Oddjob (and his hat).
NightmareFarm
Member
>. UC allows you to bypass everything instead of engaging with the combat system more deeply: You deal more damage, can interrupt most enemy attacks, are not interrupted by enemies.
Yes. Thats how super modes work in video games. Super modes are broken, this isn't anything new. The same applies to DMCs super modes(especially SDT) and KH2s drive modes, both of which are highly praised. So I don't get why exactly are we excusing it when super modes are implemented in any other game but when UC is implemented which isn't even as powerful as the other two forms I mentioned it is suddenly "gamebreaking"?
>You can just pop into UC, steamroll everything and get a Pure Platinum rank in combo, time and probably damage taken.
It isn't as simple as you make it out to be. Like any other super mode that is overpowered, the limiting factor is the magic cost and the short time span(5 seconds in this regard which is much lower than other super modes like the previously mentioned drive modes from KH2) you get inside it. And it's not like you're one shotting high level enemies with it on IC(funny enough there is a dedicated button which lets you do that with DMC5s SDT yet no one complains). At most you're taking half health off high levels enemies but no more than that. Like I said before you're only room clearing complete fodder enemies like accolades which would have been easy to pure plat anyway.
> Using Pulley's Butterfly and Infernal Communicator makes it even simpler, you're just providing another way to avoid engaging with the combat system (PB simplifies defense, IC simplifies offense); You're doubling down on the problems that make people dislike UC instead of solving them.
Your argument is that UC trivialises using any other magic resource but that can't be the case if there is a reason to use the accessories.
>Regarding Demon Slave, you admitted how you are using Demon Slave constantly in different ways, calling them for short attacks, managing that they don't get enraged, switching to different demons, using different moves (you at least mentioned Madama's kiss (R) and Phantasmaraneae's self-destruction (360+P))...so I guess the system is working as intended.
You haven't argued for why spamming madamas kiss over and over doesn't break the game though.
And UC also has plenty of versatility as well. You can use it exclusively for individual moves, I don't get why people just act as if you can only mash P during it. You can selectively only tap into it to launch enemies or to do a finisher or an AoE type attack for example for the cost of 3 orbs instead of 9. It's a much deeper mechanic than you're giving it credit for.
Last edited:
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
There was also nothing like other games on other consoles in 1985, these vague statements don't mean much.
Zelda is the worst of the two you could use to argue innovation. Top down action adventure games were all over gaming before it.
Neither did Nintendo have anything to compete with Atari's games which is why the 2600 sold as much in 86 as it did without strong arming developers and retailers like Nintendo and got pretty close. The retrospective revision that no one wanted the 2600 anymore is gravely mistaken. Unfortunately Nintendo's strong arming wouldn't really work out for Atari long-term, or Sega so they 5both ended up being hard to find outside of big city stores or mail-order, But that didn't happen until about 88.
Last edited:
Welp, my bad. I don't think anyone remembers a single non-infamous Atari game from the 80's, but yeah, they were a gaming powerhouse. Kind of a bitch to have a foreign company control your own market so easily despite you having more years on it, though.
Last edited:
Because, unlike in DMC, UC affected the design of the rest of the game. This is something I have already mentioned in my previous posts.
You're constantly trying to fight back against the argument that "people say that UC is broken", ignoring what I've said in every post: That people complain about it because it affected the design of the rest of the game. No one is complaining about UC in a vacuum. You try to remove all context so you can equiparate it to DMC's DT or Bayo3's DS (and even if this was acceptable, I don't get what your argument is: If we assumed that DT and DS were bad...would that make UC any better? At best it would make it just another bad system).
No, my argument is that UC bypasses a lot of mechanics of the combat system, removing depth instead of adding it. Pulley's Butterfly and Infernal Communicator are other ways of removing depth: One allows you to forget about defense for a while and the other does the same for offense. The goal we're looking for is to have the most fun, engaging and deep combat system. Those are the terms in which people address UC when they say that it's broken.
I already said that if it is so, it's a huge oversight. BTW, you said that summoning a kiss takes 4 seconds, that's enough for any boss in Expert to kill her, I'm really surprised that it never happened to you.
Anyway, it doesn't completely invalidate the whole system though.
Why would you do that? If you just tap into UC for a single attack you waste a lot of magic. It's obvious that the game is discouraging using it in that way. But even if you did, once you launch a big enemy...then what? You can't juggle it without UC. You would've had more options by keeping UC active. Summarizing: You have to activate UC at the right moment when you're perfoming a launcher, so you can instantly deactivate it to not waste any more magic than necessary and all to do less damage, use more magic and have less options that if you just left it running? Why would anyone do that? If that was the intention behind it, then it would've been implemented with a dead-man button, like Demon Slave in 3 where the Demons automatically despawn when you release the trigger, don't you think?
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
People who don't get their history from non-research journalists on Youtube or IGN?
I mean the homebrew community is the largest out there and the plug and plays with the built in games sell well across a large age demographics so people have been playing non-infamous Atari games for decades.
Ironically, those youtubers ran their entire channels on bad NES games which has ironically caused people to be less interested in going back to the NES thinking there aren't good games on it since they were actually playing those bad games on their channels, but not Atari games for the most part.
Nintendo used Japanese funds and partnerships with distributors to take shelf space away from Atari and Sega by strong-arming devs and retailers most importantly in a legally questionable manner, and it still took them around 3 years to pull it off so I wouldn't use the word "easily". After all, second place in the US was the 2600, not the 7800 or the Master System. Considering how incredibly outdated the 1977 2600 was by that point that tells you something.
Last edited:
SafeOrAlone
Banned
"Mortal Kombat, on Sega Genesis, is the best video game ever."
PhaseJump
Banned
The NES had a staggered release in North America limited to select regions and didn't had a full nationwide release until late september 1986. Keep in mind Nintendo was a newcomer and Atari was already a fully established company. That it managed to outsell the Atari isn't some grand achievement by itself, but still impressive for a rookie, unproven company to lead the market in only a few months (with or without questionable tactics).
It just tells me how incredibly miserable and unhealthy the game market was at that point before Nintendo came along, proving the reviled point. We don't know how distant second place was to the NES.
Last edited:
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
Nintendo had almost 1 million consoles sent to retailers to flood retail channels by the time they had the national launch in September using various strongarming tactics along with deals they made with American distribution partners to block shelf space, take over the airwaves, and buy coverage. Sega brought in a few hundred thousand consoles but wasn't able to sell many of them in 1986, because they didn't use the same strategy or tactics as Nintendo which is why Sega later signed an agreement with Tonka for distribution since they weren't able to sell their inventory or market effectively as Nintendo blocked access. This isn't really impressive imo, this is taking advantage of the poor regulation and slow system of the 80's if anything given all the legal challenges at the time. Nintendo manipulated coverage to present itself as the only product available which only a well-connected rich foreign corp could have done.
The fact Atari 2600 with new models being made created enough demand to crack through Nintendo's brute force wall for around 2 and a half years, declining gradually as Nintendo used their position to make it incredibly difficult to find alternatives, shows that Nintendo probably would have lost if they played fairly. The SMS and 7800 were made irrelevant by how Nintendo entered, which wouldn't legally be allowed to happen again the same way since, however with 1 million consoles blocking up space and near monopolistic coverage in 1986, still people saw those few ads for the 2600 junior and went out and brought them in droves to where Atari sold 800-900k 2600s the same year (1986) Nintendo sold 1 million, and some Nintendo books claim they were fabricating their numbers so it may have been less. This was when Atari was considered a dead name because of Tramiels purchase of the company and the launch of the ST, and people were wondering if Atari would even commit to supporting any video game device long term when they announced the 7800 was still coming after the purchase.
I would argue that Nintendo would have had no chance of dominating if they played fair. and their success was dependent on how they did business. In 1988 the 2600 was still the leading Atari console on sale with new games being released for it by developers that didn't want to work with the NES at all, more third party support than the 7800 or Sega had with the Master System possibly combined. As much as some historically disinterested online gaming journalists want to rewrite the history books the 2600 wasn't dead in 1986. It wasn't even dead worldwide in 1985 which they announced 1 million consoles sold mostly internationally, so near 1 million in the US shouldn't have been possible at all if you believe what was commonly spread about Atari and the game crash the last 25 years.
Nintendo was no rookie, and they weren't unproven either, they were already a name people recognized thanks to Coleco signing them to bundle Donkey Kong with CV consoles for free, and it was by far the best version of the game to boot at the time. Not to mention the sequels. Nintendo even had CV in Japan and used it as a benchmark when designing the famicom. They knew what they could get away with and hired sleezebags to run NOA. Nintendo wasn't some little guy who came in with an over shipment of consoles and then just happened to stumble into victory. Come on now.
If there was an unproven underdog at the time it was Sega. After the SMS didn't work out in the US they decided to go on their own create a new SOA with a lot more financing from other parts of the company, handling marketing and distribution themselves and eventually was able to dominate the US gaming market themselves with the Genesis, until around 1995.
NightmareFarm
Member
Well I don't see how it affected the rest of the game anymore than SDT affected the rest of DMC5 or DS affected the rest of B3. In fact Bayo 3 if anything revolves more around the super mode in that game seeing as almost half of cerezas combat sections you literally need to use it to break enemy force fields or to enter barriers to fight enemies which cereza can't enter. In B2 you don't have to do anything like that, it is entirely optional.
And yes, if other super modes are bad but people don't criticise them but criticise UC then it's hypocrisy.
>One allows you to forget about defense for a while and the other does the same for offense.
Nope. Using PB as an example even if you have the butterfly shield it is still optimal to get WT dodges as much as possible because you don't want the sheidl to break and the benefits you get in WT. I don't get this logic.
>I already said that if it is so, it's a huge oversight. BTW, you said that summoning a kiss takes 4 seconds, that's enough for any boss in Expert to kill her, I'm really surprised that it never happened to you.
Anyway, it doesn't completely invalidate the whole system though.
Only if the boss has a "summon-killer" move like Beast Luka. However it's not like they do it every time and they usually only pull it out if your summon has been on screen longer.
>Anyway, it doesn't completely invalidate the whole system though.
Elaborate. And how exactly does UC "invalidate the whole system"
>Why would you do that? If you just tap into UC for a single attack you waste a lot of magic. It's obvious that the game is discouraging using it in that way.
You only waste about 3 orbs compared to 9 orbs for a full combo.
That's like saying flash slave is useless since you're wasting a small chunk of mana rather than using DS until the bar runs out.
>But even if you did, once you launch a big enemy...then what? You can't juggle it without UC.
You don't need to. A launch delays its movements for quite a while giving you ample time to deal damage or finish an enemy off.
>Summarizing: You have to activate UC at the right moment when you're perfoming a launcher, so you can instantly deactivate it to not waste any more magic than necessary and all to do less damage, use more magic and have less options that if you just left it running?
Not true you waste like 3 orbs IIRC compared to like 9 for a full bar.
rofif
Can’t Git Gud
nah. That's accurate as much as I love ME1
alabtrosMyster
Banned
Xbox is relevant to gaming.
Yes, after the success of the VS System and then the NY/LA test markets, they decided to have a proper launch, knowing they could easily sell what they shipped and having not unwarranted confidence in killer apps like Super Mario Bros, and no, Nintendo still would have dominated the console space easily, the Atari 2600 simply wasn't technically capable of running games like Megaman, Castlevania or Contra which gave the edge to the NES, nor they had anything to compete with those behemoths. If there was an Atari game in 1986 on par with Super Mario Bros, I'd love to know. The thing was a toaster on its way out and only managed to keep going due to brand name ubiquity and the market being pretty much barren. They squandered their chances by having no quality standards and releasing broken games and overhyped shovelware like ET and the infamous Pacman port on the market. They weren't a poor innocent company who simply wasn't given a fair chance, they had the whole market for themselves for a full gen and fucked up consumer trust and goodwill in those years for being greedy incompetent assholes. And yes, Nintendo was literally unproven at the time, they were completely new to the NA console market going against a company that was synonymous with videogames at the time. And again, the NES effectively launched in late 86, giving other consoles full market freedom until then, and they still couldn't come close. And I had an Atari 2600, but there was literally no reason to go back to it once I got a NES with SMB and add-ons like the Zapper, it was simply light years ahead of anything I had played before. Others obviously felt the same. It's not like anyone was unaware of the Atari 2600, they simply didn't care.
Last edited:
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
They went into one part of NYC in 1985 and barely sold half the small allocation they had (with SMB). they had no indication of any demand that would require the 1 million consoles they shipped in, they just flooded retailers with stock and 'incentives' and then used their partners and their cash to push for policies that were anti-competitive. The 2600 even breaking through that for the first 2 or so years shows this as well, and explains why so many gamers were disinterested in the NES, leaving a whole lot of consumers for Sega to get with the Genesis later. Nintendo created a fragmented console market with their strategy.
This has nothing to do with anything, are you just ignoring what was written? 2600 came close to selling as much as the NES in 86 without SMB (assuming Nintendos reported numbers are accurate), SMS and 7800 both had exclusive more sophisticated games and didn't sell a 3rd as much as the 2600 did. There was clearly a whole market of consumers that weren't interested in any of the other consoles (who hadn't already moved on to computers) at the time. This isn't about personal favorite games.
Nope, all evidence-free conspiracies. Toaster 2600 was also 2nd place.
Nintendo was already strong arming before they even launched in 1986. 1986 is also the year the SMS, the 7800, and the 2600 jr released so I don't know what you mean by "market freedom" "until then" as if these consoles came out before 1986.
2600 doesn't sell 800k to NES' 1 million consoles* if nobody cared about the 2600. 2600 doesn't go from 19 million to 30 million if no one cared about the 2600.
This myth the 2600 was abandoned by consumers at the time something that's relatively modern that was created by early Wikipedia and poorly informed gaming websites and Youtubers who have no interest in verifying the game of telephone they keep playing.
If you preferred the NES that's fine but there was clearly millions who didn't, and I find it strange that despite it being obvious the NES still won (largely) regardless of their ethics, you specifically seem to have a problem with the fact the 2600 wasn't the outdated flop you believed it was. That's the part that puzzles me the most.
Eddie-Griffin
Banned
Maybe SSB64 given that even though PS all stars isn't exactly great, it does have modernized mechanics compared to the experimental Smash 64.
Carmen Winstead
Member
Came here to write this but let's take it a step further:
Arkane Studios makes good games.
I Master l
Banned
GOW 2018 is a great game
Deerock71
Member
That island was the most RE part of the whole game! Regenerators were scary as fuuuuck!Hey GAF, it's been like ages since I made a thread. So I thought....what are some popular gaming takes that are just....wrong?
Here's one of mine:
-RE4's Island is just a shooting gallery, worst part of the game
Wrong...it's a masterpiece and integral part of the game. RE4 wouldn't be RE4 without it. First off, the Regeneradores reside here, aka these fuckers.
And the way the Island is paced...frenetic enemy encounters and then the encounters with them...it's brilliant pacing that shouldn't be ignored.
What say you, GAF? What are popular gaming opinions that you don't agree with?
With zero marketing or fanfare. They were testing the waters to see how people would react to the console and its games, not to immediatly sell millions of the thing which nobody knew about. Flooding the market isn't exactly a smart strategy unless you're really confident in your system, as sales and success aren't guaranteed regardless of any underhanded tactics/distribution deals, leading to burning bridges with retailers had the console flopped or underperformed, and leaving them with a lot of unsold inventory and losses, which wasn't the case, giving them confidence in Nintendo. The 2600 jr was a cheap redesign that sold for less than 50$ and likely sold on the price alone as a toy/budget gaming for kids and lower income families, as they couldn't compete with the quality the newer consoles offered.
Oh it has everything to do with it. The NES wouldn't have been half as successful without SMB as it was by far its biggest release and a seminal game remembered to this day. It showcased the NES technical prowess/advantage over the 2600 and sold the system almost single-handedly. The 2600 came close? That's not exactly impressive considering it had far longer on the market and was far cheaper by that point.
Hurray. It's not like the SMS/7800 were fierce competition. Mismanaging the market and Atari's (lack) of quality control/financial woes are very well established though.
The 2600 launched before the NES didn't it? That 7800 and SMS didn't come close to matching the 2600 in sales only proves the dire condition consoles were in at the time.
All I'm trying to establish is that the NES had obvious advantages over the 2600 that made it more appealing and desirable to consumers, that it was innovative software that sold the NES in the end and the biggest reason for its success, and that Atari was barely competing by that point, selling on price and name recognition alone, as you couldn't even point to a single game that offered anything the other systems couldn't do, nor anything matching the quality of games on the NES at the time, and the 7800 flopping marking the end of Atari as a viable competitor/gaming company.
Last edited:
balls of snow
Member
People saying story and lore is not important.
Pong is over there, have fun.
Pong is over there, have fun.
Similar threads
- Poll