analog_future
Banned
The point of it is to make Sony more money.
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PS5 Pro developer verdict: ‘I didn’t meet a single person that understood the point of it’
- Thread starter Roxkis_ii
- Start date
TheRedRiders
Member
Oh I should have had the caveat of PSSR. So 1080p at 60 FPS upscaled to 4K with PSSR would offer a significantly improved image quality over what we currently have, which is a blurry mess.
In all fairness, everyone including Sony didn't expect the PS4 Pro to sell as much as it did. This Jim Ryan quote will age well I suspect once the PS5 Pro has released.
"Sometimes I think we can be guilty of ascribing too much rationality to gamers," Ryan explained. "People just want the best. Maybe they just want to future proof? I think we see the same thing from Apple customers too — there are people that want the best that you can buy."
Spyxos
Member
You said native, of course upscaled could achieve it.
Mibu no ookami
Member
I keep hearing the refrain of "I don't see the point of this, but I'm getting it day 1"
That people want to buy this to get better performance is the point. 20% of PS4 owners bought the PS4 Pro. A Pro machine will flood the market with used PS5s, which will give a number of people who can't afford a PS5 a chance to buy one at reduced price. This should increase software sales more than marginally as result. Not to mention the people with the Pro will likely buy even more games that are not as hindered by performance.
I can tell you a slew of games I'm waiting to play on the PS5 Pro like FF16 and FF7 Rebirth.
Either people are extremely inept both in the industry and consumers or there is serious FUD around PS5 Pro because of what it means for the Xbox and to a degree PC or some combination of the two.
We don't know a lot about the PS5 and even publishers and developers don't know the price. I also don't see any developers who were all about the PS4 Pro or any of them complain about a new video card coming out.
I will also say that this thing about oh PS4 Pro was about 4KTVs. It didn't even have a 4K bluray player and most of the games still weren't in 4K or at least native 4K.
The same developers put in fidelity and performance modes. People's adoption of 4KTVs is even greater now than it was then, but many games do not run at 4K60 and can only run at 1080p60 or 1440p60 or 1800p60. Give me 4K via upscaling and implement or improve RTX? Yeah, I'm in.
That people want to buy this to get better performance is the point. 20% of PS4 owners bought the PS4 Pro. A Pro machine will flood the market with used PS5s, which will give a number of people who can't afford a PS5 a chance to buy one at reduced price. This should increase software sales more than marginally as result. Not to mention the people with the Pro will likely buy even more games that are not as hindered by performance.
I can tell you a slew of games I'm waiting to play on the PS5 Pro like FF16 and FF7 Rebirth.
Either people are extremely inept both in the industry and consumers or there is serious FUD around PS5 Pro because of what it means for the Xbox and to a degree PC or some combination of the two.
We don't know a lot about the PS5 and even publishers and developers don't know the price. I also don't see any developers who were all about the PS4 Pro or any of them complain about a new video card coming out.
I will also say that this thing about oh PS4 Pro was about 4KTVs. It didn't even have a 4K bluray player and most of the games still weren't in 4K or at least native 4K.
The same developers put in fidelity and performance modes. People's adoption of 4KTVs is even greater now than it was then, but many games do not run at 4K60 and can only run at 1080p60 or 1440p60 or 1800p60. Give me 4K via upscaling and implement or improve RTX? Yeah, I'm in.
it will make both series consoles totally irrelevant for sure. basically, ps5 vs seriesS - pro vs X humilation for the rest of the gen.
pretty sure that was a factor at the initial planning.
they probably wouldnt follow up with it though, if they knew from start that xbox would go tottally belly up, before even reaching mid-gen.
HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
a multicultural team of v
Member
I mean, I understand why from their point of view, but I don't understand why that is an acceptable excuse. The devs are literally saying, "we don't need an upgraded console because we haven't even tried yet with the first one"
As a consumer, that is unacceptable. The PS5 came out over 3 years ago.
Trekinspace88
Neo Member
I don't understand the point of MS released the XSS alongside the XSX when they should of just released the XSX alone and never bothered with the XSS.
I for one welcome the PS5 Pro as games are already suffering performance issues and they will get worse as this gen goes on. The PS5 and even the XSX aren't powerful enough to properly handle a good portion of the games coming out.
A PS5 pro will certainly help with performance but i can see it still not solving the performance issues entirely. Still i hope Next Gen consoles (PS6 etc..) will be a massive leap in tech in order to keep up with future games engines and keep a steady performance.
I for one welcome the PS5 Pro as games are already suffering performance issues and they will get worse as this gen goes on. The PS5 and even the XSX aren't powerful enough to properly handle a good portion of the games coming out.
A PS5 pro will certainly help with performance but i can see it still not solving the performance issues entirely. Still i hope Next Gen consoles (PS6 etc..) will be a massive leap in tech in order to keep up with future games engines and keep a steady performance.
cireza
Member
Dat OLED screen though. I am not using my TV anymore for the Switch. Tabletop is fantastic.
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TheRedRiders
Member
I said crispy 4K, not native but we're arguing over semantics here and it wasn't my original point either.
Polygonal_Sprite
Gold Member
A few developers doesn’t change the fact there are several games that need to drop down to 720p to hit their 60fps performance modes.
More or much better RT and higher resolution VR is tempting for the same 10 million enthusiasts that bought PS4 Pro.
PS5 Pro exists for the same reasons $250 Elite controllers exist. Because there’s a market for it and it enables you to sell a second or even third PS5 console to the same household at times tripling your hardware sales which then leads to more digital spending be it on subscriptions or games or dlc or micro transactions.
It astounds me that a so called “industry expert” can’t work any of that out.
Imtjnotu
Member
Never said indy. I said third party.....
SJRB
Gold Member
Bro shut the fuck up. Start pushing the PS5 to its limits, then.
More compute means more available resources for developers to allocate towards creating their vision to the fullest extent. In this case, more = more.
Why are we driving technological barriers forward? Because we can. "What's the point of this?" "What's the point of that?" What's the point of anything?
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
kbear
Member
It’s not the dev’s choice that they’ve been forced to do cross-gen games 3 years into the gen. Uptake was slow due to shortages so it made financial sense to support cross-gen for longer than normal. At the end of the day they’re businesses trying to make profit.
Anchovie123
Member
1 system runs the game better then the other system, whats not to get?
MonkeyClaw36
Member
Even my rig can't do this with the most modern games if I want acceptable fidelity. I play on 1440P with DLSS which goes above 100 fps. But 4K is just too taxing.
People expecting this from a console are just oblivious.
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Interfectum
Member
Lots of games look like shit on PS5.... we need a Pro already. Sorry devs and Christopher.
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killatopak
Member
Motherfucker should have met me.
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Spyxos
Member
We both know what you meant.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Remember, these are the same developers who can't optimize games properly and force us to choose between performance and resolution modes.
Dragon's Dogma 2 just launched in a shit state this week.
Yet they can't see a point of a more powerful Pro console?
Dragon's Dogma 2 just launched in a shit state this week.
Yet they can't see a point of a more powerful Pro console?
Roxkis_ii
Member
Wouldn't you be able to say that to justify never optimizing software though?
Bro shut the fuck up. Start pushing the PS5 to its limits, then.
More compute means more available resources for developers to allocate towards their vision. In this case, more = more.
Why are we driving technological barriers forward? Because we can. What's the point of this? What's the point of that? What's the point of anything?
Software runs like crap, get better hardware =
I think a little info on which devs he spoke to is well warranted. There has been a tremendous amount of consolidation involving the biggest devs / pubs.
Killjoy-NL
Member
Sure, but that's completely besides the point that's being made.
The point is that there isn't a necessity, really.
Not that there is no market for a PS5 Pro.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
I don’t think I he did some kind of scientific survey at GDC….lol
I dunno how it’s anymore “unnecessary” than any other piece of tech updates
Is an iPhone 15 max necessary compared to an iPhone 10?
That’s in the eye of the beholder. But 4K DLSS + RT + higher rendering is worthwhile to me and many others that play mostly on PS5 and want to see games at the best they can be for that platform, make sense?
Trogdor1123
Member
It’s like Sony will use it to make more money or something
kbear
Member
I
I genuinely hope I’m wrong as I want the best possible version of GTA6, for example. Hopefully there’s a significant advantage on the Pro and not just a few bells & whistles.
It’s just not enough of a leap at the end of the day, just like all the devs he talked to are saying. If I had to guess, I think you’ll see the most benefits from Sony first party games as it’ll kinda be mandated by upper management. Third parties, however, I suspect won’t put as much effort into taking advantage of the Pro.
I genuinely hope I’m wrong as I want the best possible version of GTA6, for example. Hopefully there’s a significant advantage on the Pro and not just a few bells & whistles.
Games already hit 60 FPS on PS5. The potential of the Pro is to be able to do 60 FPS with much better image quality. Essentially it's like getting a "quality" mode that runs at 60 FPS.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
It’s absolutely a big enough leap for what it’s intending to do - be a better version of this generation of hardware
You’re getting a massive increase in resolution, IQ, ray tracing, and better stability.
But it’s not, and never was intended to be, a new generation where devs will be required to re-tool.
Devs won’t require much effort to make Pro versions, it will just automatically run better. Which is a good thing, devs are too stretched enough as it is with the platforms they support
Lucifers Beard
Member
I can't see it providing a substantial boost in frame rates for a lot of games since the CPU is still (almost certainly) based on Zen 2, but if all you're after is a resolution closer to 4K, sure. The additional GPU power will give you that. Although I don't see an issue with the current hardware, games look great and run pretty well for the most part on consoles. It was easy to understand with Xbox One X because the Xbox One was a shit, underpowered console that was getting dwarfed by PS4.
The biggest issue I can see is that developers are already creating games for Series S, Series X, PS5 and PC. In some cases multiplatform developers are still supporting Xbox One, Xbox One X, PS4 and PS4 Pro as well as the Nintendo Switch. That's a huge amount of platforms to consider in the worst case scenario and adding another platform to optimise for creates additional challenges.
The biggest issue I can see is that developers are already creating games for Series S, Series X, PS5 and PC. In some cases multiplatform developers are still supporting Xbox One, Xbox One X, PS4 and PS4 Pro as well as the Nintendo Switch. That's a huge amount of platforms to consider in the worst case scenario and adding another platform to optimise for creates additional challenges.
Roxkis_ii
Member
But the same games that are running very unoptimize on Console also aren't running very optimized on PC which can be several times more powerful than the base PS5 or even the PS5 Pro, so it doesn't seem like just having more horse power is the answer.
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Mr. PlayStation
Member
Not to be critical of Mr Dring, but his report could be based on some nobody posing as a video game developer giving an opinion like "What's the point of PS5 Pro" and that's enough reason for him to say that or run an article about it, yeah?
Dr. Wilkinson
Member
Yeah that's exactly my reaction to the specs, as well. "Why would anyone pay (assuming) $600 for this?". I already feel like the the Pro consoles last-gen were largely under-ultilized and mostly pointless. The idea of Pro consoles this generation just seem blantantly crazy to me, to be honest. Add to that, there's barely even been any truly magnificent current-gen only games so far this cycle as it is, so maybe the development community should focus on making current-gen games run great on current-gen hardware. A lot of games still give me the sense they were originally meant for PS4/ Xbox One, which is a phase of current-gen that should've passed a few years ago, but is still lingering.
Games just take too long to make now, anyway. A new platform SKU every four years is silly.
Games just take too long to make now, anyway. A new platform SKU every four years is silly.
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Bojanglez
The Amiga Brotherhood
Here is why they are doing it....
- Allows Sony to recoup R&D investment for PS6 tech early (e.g. PSSR)
- Allows devs to become familiar with PS6 tech prior to PS6 launch, so they can have a real impact on PS6 at launch
- Somewhat may stop some PS5 users looking into moving to PC
- A certain % of PS fans will always just buy the best PS available, so Sony not doing it is leaving their money on the table
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Unlike the Pro and One X, where those console brought 4K to the front, it really does feel like there's less of a need or want for mid-gen consoles this time around.
Mibu no ookami
Member
Cross gen is the future. There aren't really generations when it comes to PC gaming and there won't really be generations when it comes to console gaming. We're going to see a blend now that consoles have consistent architecture. Allowing for games to reclaim their budget far earlier into new console generations.
We could see for perhaps the first time, major games developed for 3 generations of consoles, but will definitely see more of this from ps5 and onward.
This reveals that you have largely not even looked into the PS5 Pro and have a fundamental misunderstanding about what its feature set is.
First PSSR. PSSR is seemingly going to be at the system level and it is not fully seen as to what a developer even needs to do to enable it. PSSR doesn't even need an updated SDK like the other features in the PS5 Pro like the additional CPU boost, extra memory, are enhanced GPU and rtx.
Second, developers are ALREADY making assets that go beyond what we see on the base consoles. Just as you'll see a game perform better on a higher end video card, a game will also perform better on the PS5 Pro simply from a hardware perspective.
Bert Big Balls
Member
Honestly there should be a minimum requirement to create games that use all of the basic features of the console like the adaptive triggers etc. What's the point in developing for a new console if you aren't even going to put in the minimum effort?
DaleinCalgary
Member
Good developers will know what to do with it
Kacho
Member
Yeah, Phil talked about this a few years ago when he was asked about the possibility of a mid-gen refresh. They already did 4K last gen, so what's the marketing focus for the next one? 8K? How do you get people excited for that?
kbear
Member
It’s not a big enough leap, tho. Both the PS4 Pro and Xflop One X were bigger proportionate leaps. This is a disappointment and unnecessary overall, and actual devs that the head of Gameindustry.biz spoke to at GDC all agree.
No one is saying it should be a generational leap. Disingenuous line
Exactly, and this is just another one to add to the pile. I’m not surprised they’re not excited about it, especially with the performance boost being on the lower end.
James Sawyer Ford
Member
CPU isn’t a limiting factor in most games, as 99% run at 60 fps
And those modes tend to look blurry, so better looking version of those 60 fps modes is very much welcome
Also there’s many cases where performance modes dip a bit more, this should easily get them to be closer to locked
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