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[IntentionalPun]

Could just be spartacus related; now you can "buy" the right to stream PS3 games.

Or as mentioned above; could just be old items in the database from the PSNow rental days.. being exposed accidentally.

A query gone bad can do that. Or these records could have been updated in the DB incorrectly.

 

[kingpotato]

Honestly, Sony has more work to do still in the PS4 BC for PS5 department. Fallout 4 has a bug for me where the audio desyncs from the game and then the menus stop working. Ape Escape 2 has super weird graphical issues even though it doesn't cause gameplay problems. The Hasbro Family pack has game breaking bugs/crashes with every game except Monopoly. I'm sure there is more but that's what I've encountered recently. Most of my library runs great, but I didn't expect to find these issues when these games aren't super rare.

 

[zaanan]

Selling digital games you already own isn't Backwards Compatibility.

Maybe not, but I’ll fucking take it if it means I can play Resistance series with a DS5

 

[[Sigma]]

Seen this multiple times personally(on PS4 and PS5), i'm not putting any eggs into this basket.

 

[nordique]

YES. I’ll accept nothing less. The fat PS3 is still the best console of all time when it comes to BC. Being able to play (almost) the entire catalogue of all three (at the time) PS generations was amazing – and the selection of digital PS1 and PS2 games was great too!

I’d say it’s tied with the Series X. Seems to play any Xbox One, 360 or OG disc that is thrown at it (in my experience) which is similar to the PS3 phat

 

[Sosokrates]

I think sony could do PS3 BC if they wanted to.

The PS5 is already powerful enough to run PC PS3 emulators well, and sony have all the PS3 code and stuff which would make it easier, plus they have more resources, they could have the ICE team working on this.

 

[wvnative]

I’d say it’s tied with the Series X. Seems to play any Xbox One, 360 or OG disc that is thrown at it (in my experience) which is similar to the PS3 phat

This isn't true at all....

 

[Neff]

Don't worry about the laborious process of retrofitting trophies into the games.

This. Fuck trophies. They take far too much effort to work into the games and the PS2 classics range for PS4 suffered because of it.

 

[nordique]

This isn't true at all....

Like I said, In my experience. I don’t have a game that hasn’t worked on it. My collection is not extensive

 

[yurinka]

There's over 400 PS1 and 300 PS2 games on PSN - that'd be a good place to start.

Yes, but I think they still would have to get their publishers/current IP owners to sign and have all their licensing stuff up to date.

TBH - I don't really know, how custom the rack hw is, but they run off of different storage etc so yea, there's hw-abstractions/virtualization going on that retail hw doesn't deal with.

As I remember the rack hardware had basically the one of 8 console motherboards embeedded to work separatedly with modified OS to stream video and controls and launch the games and hiding the home buttons to act as when in PS Now instead of what you do in a real console.

It's a good question how much they even want to scale right away. Streaming is largely still a loss-leading service at this point, for all players involved.

I think that in a new tier that would include only the downloadable games of PS Now + maybe the PS Plus Collection too (so basically their version of the base tier of GamePass) can be scaled day one to a worldwide scale. A lot of people would subscribe and they wouldn't have scalability issues because servers to download stuff can be anywhere in the world.

Streaming servers is different, because for game streaming latency is key, which means that the server must be relatively very close to the player to have an optimal experience. And they spend a shit ton of money on internet bandwith, and to have a lot of servers spread around the world would be too expensive, something not worth with their current business model. Plus in many countries or areas people at home has shitty internet connections and internet data caps, and 5G won't help during the first decade or so because as of now 4G coverage already sucks after many years: a big portion of the world doesn't have 4G coverage. So in terms of streaming -at least in the next few years- regarding countries support I think they may scale up a bit, but not much.

Eg. MS currently offers about 25% of the 360 library in their BC program, and that's considered a substantial enough offering that keeps people happy.

Regarding the amount of supported games in the case of MS and Sony of OG Xbox and PS2 titles, I think it has more to do with licensing issues with the IP owners of the games, or with their publishers considering that it isn't worth to spend investment in these very old games that almost nobody is going to buy today.

If the emulator is good enough to support let's say >90% of the games (ouside the ones with accesories) at -at least- original perfomance with no bugs and the only thing that the publisher has to do update their licensing stuff, to sign and get the money, many more publishers will be in. Which I assume is the MS case.

Meanwhile with PS3 if you have instead an emulator that supports around half of the games with full performance and no bugs, a third with bugs or performance issues that would work well if making some tweaks to the original game code or the emulator, and a third of games that won't work, the publishers may not be interested, possibly because they don't have the original source code anymore or the engine and tools with the versions they did use back then because newer ones may not be compatible. Same goes with telling them that must implement trophies, some publishers won't want to make that effort even if they can go in the same way fans do it in fan-made trophies for emulators that run on PC.

 

[thebigmanjosh]

Maybe not, but I’ll fucking take it if it means I can play Resistance series with a DS5

Resistance is one of the few PS3 games Ive been wanting to go back to that wasn’t remastered on PS4.

Just gimme access to all the PS1/PS2 classics I bought on PS3 with save states and upscaling.

 

[Fafalada]

Regarding the amount of supported games in the case of MS and Sony of OG Xbox and PS2 titles, I think it has more to do with licensing issues with the IP owners of the games

Of totally. But the point is emulator state doesn't need to be as complete as result either. It only needs to work 'good' against currently licensed games, and with the relatively slow trickle of new games, it's easy to keep up testing new titles as they come in.
Very different from trying to get several thousand working all at once (and unlike fan-projects, console-makers have to extensively test the lot to claim them compatible).

If the emulator is good enough to support let's say >90% of the games (ouside the ones with accesories) at -at least- original perfomance with no bugs and the only thing that the publisher has to do update their licensing stuff, to sign and get the money, many more publishers will be in.

Nah - that's not really a factor in these negotiations - eg. see relatively limited adoption of PS1 PSN releases(or how inconsistent the 'compatibility' list was between PSP/PS3/Vita, even though compatibility rate was like 99% from the start on all PS machines.
In fact PS2 library on PS3 grew at a much faster rate(even though emulator was not as robust) until Sony cut it short with PS4 launch.

 

[Classicrockfan]

Man if this were true and they had all the Omnimush and resistance games I’d buy them in a heartbeat.

 

[ethomaz]

Seems like a waste of time and money
I hope it at least give them some profit to invest in something else.

 

[yurinka]

Nah - that's not really a factor in these negotiations - eg. see relatively limited adoption of PS1 PSN releases, which had something like 99% compatibility rate from the start.
In fact PS2 library grew at a much faster rate(even though emulator was not as robust) until Sony cut it short with PS4 launch.

I assume they saw that sales were bad and the work they needed wasn't worth it. I think that another solution that wouldn't require tweaking, trophies and so on, like having a way more robust emulator and to skip the trophies requirement would help. Something that wouldn't require to touch the game code or implement anything.

Or even more, something that would skip at least partially the licensing step because would be PS3 games already signed to be sold on PS3: to include the PS1, PS2 and Minis games on the PS Now subscription and to sell them for streaming in a Stadia way. Maybe since they would be PS3 games running on PS3 hardware and they had the right to do it the paperwork would be way faster and most of it wouldn't be needed. Plus obviously the IP owners/publishers wouldn't need to do anything.

 

[DryvBy]

If I can play my PS3 games with upres filters, I'll be ecstatic. And if I can play my disc games? Even better.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.

 

[Mr.ODST]

Hopefully they let us play Warhawk and bring back the online.

 

[polybius80]

Regarding the amount of supported games in the case of MS and Sony of OG Xbox and PS2 titles, I think it has more to do with licensing issues with the IP owners of the games, or with their publishers considering that it isn't worth to spend investment in these very old games that almost nobody is going to buy today.

this is very interesting, back in the day console manufactures aparently never required licensing for backward compatibility because the system could run the game as it was or with extras that required no intervention from original devs, the licensing problems started as far as I know when xbox one required to modify the games to run them, as it work when you put a disc on it it downloads a special version instead of running the game on the disc so there is some changes required to the game that may violate the rights of the original developer/publisher the same applies for a modified ps2 game to add trophy support, if that is correct then in theory there is no licensing problem as long as your machine can run the games as the developers submitted them or maybe there are licensing problems that are relatively new taking into account the backward compatibility in the licensing of the game just as ps4 games can run on ps5 but is it contemplated on the license or its assumed there are no licensing issues if your game can run on a new system that dont exist at the time of releasing the game?

 

[Moridianae]

The most fascinating take I always find in these threads is the belief by some that, somehow, the original designers of the PlayStation 3 could not make it work for BC.

That's foolish. Of course they can, especially with folks like Cerny. The issue is whether they WANT to do it, not if they CAN do it.

 

[ManaByte]

The most fascinating take I always find in these threads is the belief by some that, somehow, the original designers of the PlayStation 3 could not make it work for BC.

That's foolish. Of course they can, especially with folks like Cerny. The issue is whether they WANT to do it, not if they CAN do it.

The original designers of the PS3 are gone. Kutaragi is making Terminators now.

 

[yurinka]

this is very interesting, back in the day console manufactures aparently never required licensing for backward compatibility because the system could run the game as it was or with extras that required no intervention from original devs, the licensing problems started as far as I know when xbox one required to modify the games to run them, as it work when you put a disc on it it downloads a special version instead of running the game on the disc so there is some changes required to the game that may violate the rights of the original developer/publisher the same applies for a modified ps2 game to add trophy support, if that is correct then in theory there is no licensing problem as long as your machine can run the games as the developers submitted them or maybe there are licensing problems that are relatively new taking into account the backward compatibility in the licensing of the game just as ps4 games can run on ps5 but is it contemplated on the license or its assumed there are no licensing issues if your game can run on a new system that dont exist at the time of releasing the game?

This licensing issue started when they (also Nintendo and Sony, not only MS) included BC games on digital stores, I assume back in PS3, 360 or the first Nintendo Virtual Console. Or whenever they wanted to port/remaster/remake a game for a new generation. The licensing is not related to backwards compatibility (meaning to play a game of a previous generation), it's related to selling the game in a new platform different than the old one. Or to be licensed to continue selling it X years after launch.

Companies like MS, Sony, Nintendo or the publishers if put their games on BC stores or make some work or spend money on licensing, testing, tweaking and whatever paperwork, emulator or hardware design is needed is because they think it will provide some profit for them. They do it for money, not to make you happy and allow you to spend your time with old games when you could buying and playing their current games instead.

Regarding the licensing issues: let's say Ferrari signed a 5 years license deal with Sega to use their cars in Out Run 2. On exchange for allowing Sega to use these cars, they have to pay some money to Ferrari. After 5 years they must remove their game from all stores, or to sign another license deal with Sega to extend it. Meaning Sega must pay again to Ferrari. And this is when the license available, maybe at that moment other game has the exclusive of certain cars during X years for videogames. Or the same with Capcom and Cadillac for the game Cadillacs & Dinosaurs. Or with any game using licenses from movies, comics or stuff like that. Or the ones using licensing from clothing brands or weapon brands, or that feature popular athletes.

Same happens with licensed music. Sega licensed some songs for Crazy Taxi. After some years had to remove the game from the stores, and if wanted to release it again somewhere else had to pay again -if possible- or to replace the musics.

Then there are games whose IP owner, typically the publisher or in a few old cases the main game creators aren't anymore in the business or aren't interested on putting their game on a new platform even if they don't have to do anything and it's free money for them. Or simply that person is dead or the company doesn't exist anymore and nobody knows where to find them or how to contact them, or have to investigate who owns the rights for that IP or game in case they sold it.

 

[Fafalada]

the licensing problems started as far as I know when xbox one required to modify the games to run them

The issue was introducing a new distribution channel (the BC games are also downloaded/sold online - which original agreements for disc-printing obviously didn't account for).
As I mentioned above, Sony was dealing with those same licensing issues at least since 2006 (PS1 classics), and there was no code modifications involved in PS1/PS2 classics programs. Microsoft ran into that with XBox 360 BC program as well, half a decade ahead of what they were doing in X1.

But there's likely many other legal ramifications - a digital game never goes 'out of print' so various licenses associated with the game have to be renegotiated accordingly also - lots of software ran into problems with their licensed soundtracks (not even BC titles, but proper re-releases too) and likely more.
We really need some legal-expert folks chime in here - there has to be some posters that have the background on here?

Or even more, something that would skip at least partially the licensing step because would be PS3 games already signed to be sold on PS3: to include the PS1, PS2 and Minis games on the PS Now subscription and to sell them for streaming in a Stadia way.

That's an interesting point. I vaguely recall that early days of PSNow did include some PS1/PS2 classics, but maybe I'm just imagining things, it's been nearly a decade now. Though it's hard to tell, technically streaming is a new distribution channel, so it likely required renegotiating that content too, even if it was faster. None of the cloud-streaming services have had access to more than a fraction of original platform to date either.

 

[009EspadaSageJay]

DOA5/ Ultimate is on PS now you still need to manual buy the DLC you can search for the DLC on Sony's website and also on the ps5 the fact that its coming up in the guys game section has less to do with BC and more to do with Sony allowing maybe full game downloads of certain games.

 

[yurinka]

That's an interesting point. I vaguely recall that early days of PSNow did include some PS1/PS2 classics, but maybe I'm just imagining things, it's been nearly a decade now. Though it's hard to tell, technically streaming is a new distribution channel, so it likely required renegotiating that content too, even if it was faster. None of the cloud-streaming services have had access to more than a fraction of original platform to date either.

To support the PS3 version of a PS1/PS2 Classic, as happens with their PS4 version, it only requires to have them included on their PS3 PSN store, not needed to be on PS Now before. Plus obviously getting the ok from its publisher and IP owner so also to have the related licensing rights up to date.

 

[Kokoloko85]

Very unlikely to be offered outside of a very curated subset of the library unfortunately due to licensing and publishing rights issues.

The key problem is of course that Sony themselves probably own less than 5% of the entire library, and so its not really up to them to offer titles for sale digitally.

Sadly thats probably true.
Id love to be able to buy/play the PS1 Library of games that are still on the PS3 PSN store, that shouldnt be too hard to work out but yeah your right, probably wont happen

 

[Sosokrates]

YES. I’ll accept nothing less. The fat PS3 is still the best console of all time when it comes to BC. Being able to play (almost) the entire catalogue of all three (at the time) PS generations was amazing – and the selection of digital PS1 and PS2 games was great too!

I agree that the PS3 phat has the most compatibility but the time I tried GT4 and vice city on my 40inch HDTV i was , PS2 games look discusting on HDTV.

On 1X and seriesX Ive had way more playtime with BC titles because a lot of key titles actually look and run better and not a painful experience for the eyes.

 

[DarkestHour]

Sony isn't smart enough to introduce PS3 BC. This is a bug or just PS Now showing as PS3.

 

[Rudius]

Series

A new game on PS5 could get close to that E3 trailer. I'd be happy with 1080p60 and top quality graphics.

 

[TGO]

The only flaw in peoples disregarding it with "it's just a PSNow glitch" is Dead or Alive 5 isn't available on PSNow.

 

[ManaByte]

The only flaw in peoples disregarding it with "it's just a PSNow glitch" is Dead or Alive 5 isn't available on PSNow.

Neither are the PoP games, but they were in the past. This is pulling old data including the old 90 day rental prices.

 

[drotahorror]

Series

Yes please. The Motorstorm games are the only reason I have my PS3 hooked up still.

 

[Chris_Rivera]

At the rate Rps3 project is going, 4k/60 versions of the games I want to play will be a reality. Msg4, resistance, etc are just about there, but take a beefy machine.

 

[ReBurn]

I'd love to be able to play my PS3 games on my PS5. It's probably just a store glitch, though.

 

[Kuranghi]

Kinda like how my TV "says" it has HDR, but it doesn't have a full color gamut, so it can't possibly be real HDR, it's fake HDR (or as I like to call it pHakeDR), it just accepts HDR content.

What do you mean by "full colour gamut"? Like 8-bit+2-bit FRC panel with vs. true 10-bit panel or your TV not being able to display 100% of BT.2020? No reasonably priced consumer TV can really do above 75% and sometimes true 10-bit panels have worse gradients than 8+2-bit panels. Afaik the colours are identically produced to our eyes, the FRC flashes two shades rapidly to fool your eyes into thinking its a shade in between the two, increasing the perceived bit depth.

With HDR as well basically no reasonably priced consumer display can do HDR without tonemapping to its lower peak brightness than the source material/capabilities. That doesn't mean HDR isn't amazing on my ZD9 at 1700 nits (Probably mostly way lower than that as well due to how it works), its spectacularly better than SDR. My flatmate has the 1000-nit XF90 and thats amazing again but higher black level, more blooming and not quite as bright. Then an edge-lit 400-nit telly just can't do HDR properly really.

If you have the latter quality of TV then fair enough, HDR is probably rubbish, but if its a FALD LCD with a decent number of dimming zones (24+ in 55",more or less depending on brand) then I wouldn't let lower than perfect colour volume put you off, you can search on youtube, movies and even games rarely use much of the BT.2020 space anyway, almost everything you see is still within REC.709, its weird in particular with games considering how its all fake to begin with but its probably a workflow thing. I've read of some developers who have tried to change workflows to accomodate/aid the implementation of HDR and they run into issues due to (I'd guess) the unfamiliar territory. So maybe changes like that aren't getting past internal testing at most modern devs and most indies certainly won't be doing stuff like that, let alone basic SDR-to-HDR conversions.

Apparently the QD-OLED panels from Samsung Display jump us all the way up to 90% which I can't wait to see in the form of the Sony A95K in June (?). Its gonna be sweet combined with the peak brightness and per-pixel dimming.

 

[20cent]

more like "we decided to keep game availability for older systems and you can now buy games for your PS3 through the PS5 store application" ?

 

[Represent.]

Just give me motorstorm and SSX since modern day publishers ARE TOO HIGH to bring them back

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

I will always maintain that backwards compatibility means putting my previous gen disk in the drive and being able to play it.

It's not TRUE BC if it's just streaming or some digital download from an extremely limited selection of a previous console's games. It's just fake BC at that point. There needs to be a new term made up for this streaming/digital download form of what they're calling BC.

Kinda like how my TV "says" it has HDR, but it doesn't have a full color gamut, so it can't possibly be real HDR, it's fake HDR (or as I like to call it pHakeDR), it just accepts HDR content.

Or like how games call themselves "full game" when there is tons of DLC locked behind a paywall. Let's take DOA5 as a great example, they will call it the full game, but it literally has hundreds of dollars of DLC that's not included and you have to buy separately to truly have the "full game". When any game has DLC, and it's not just included with the purchase of the "full game" automatically, they shouldn't be able to call it a "full game", it should be called the "base game".

There are a few other things like that I could mention, but I'm starting to get a little off-topic, so I'll stop.

These things really are a pet peeve of mine though. It burns my ass how companies continue to obscure terms that should have one meaning, but now means anything they decide to make it mean. And it also irritates me to know that this sort of thing will only continue.

I'll stop ranting now.

Dude I'm the same way. Pisses me off to no end. These companies have 0 ethics whatsoever and the gaming media and gamers let's them get away with it.

Like how Alan Wake Remaster is "4k" on my ps5. At what point did 1440p equate to 4k?

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

Mgs4, God of War ascension, infamous 2, motorstorm, killzone, Ratchet please!

 

[coffinbirth]

Ooooooooof

 

[bender]

The most fascinating take I always find in these threads is the belief by some that, somehow, the original designers of the PlayStation 3 could not make it work for BC.

That's foolish. Of course they can, especially with folks like Cerny. The issue is whether they WANT to do it, not if they CAN do it.

 

[Shifty1897]

There's no way native PS3 backcompat is happening on PS5. Let's move on.

 

[Esppiral]

There's no way native PS3 backcompat is happening on PS5. Let's move on.

Why not?

 

[SkylineRKR]

There are quite a bit PS3 games lost to time. And there is no way to play them anymore except for a PS3 or emulation. Xbox doesn't have everything playable either, but more than Sony and a good few of them are boosted. There is the option to replay NG2 (my most played game on Series), Otogi, RR6, Kameo and what not. I also beat Lost Odyssey and Revengeance on Series. You can at least play those.

Folklore, Motorstorm Trilogy, Infamous 1 and 2, Puppeteer, Ridge 7, Resistance trilogy (mainly 1 and 3) are games I would like to revisit. It would also be interesting to see a 4K 60 Heavenly Sword and even LAIR.

 

[TonyK]

If this becomes true... which PS3 games would be nice to buy?

 

[Y0ssarian]

If this becomes true... which PS3 games would be nice to buy?

- Dead Space 1-3
- God of War Collection I & II and Ascension
- inFamous & inFamous 2
- Jak and Daxter Trilogy HD
- Killzone 2 & 3
- Metal Gear Solid 4
- Ratchet & Clank Trilogy HD, A Crack in Time, & Tools of Destruction
- Resistance Trilogy
- Sly Cooper Trilogy HD & Thieves in Time

 

[FranXico]

- Dead Space 1-3
- God of War Collection I & II and Ascension
- inFamous & inFamous 2
- Jak and Daxter Trilogy HD
- Killzone 2 & 3
- Metal Gear Solid 4
- Ratchet & Clank Trilogy HD, A Crack in Time, & Tools of Destruction
- Resistance Trilogy
- Sly Cooper Trilogy HD & Thieves in Time

The Jak & Daxter games (PS2 classics for PS4) are playable on PS5 though.

 

[Y0ssarian]

The Jak & Daxter games (PS2 classics for PS4) are playable on PS5 though.

Good

 

[Shmunter]

So what, it’s a nothing burger?

 

[hemo memo]

When PS+ and PSNOW merge, you’ll be able to stream PS1-3 games so that’s the best you can for. In the meantime, Sony will do its absolute best to remaster and sell you the same games as much as possible.