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[Nydius]

There’s no way this game was in full production for 5 years. Arkane Austin was working on other shit. Looking at the amount of content the game has, and everything else really, can’t see this game being in full production for more than three years.

Everything about this game screams rebooted mid development, possibly more than once, with a bunch of internal confusion about what they were trying to accomplish until they were rushed to put a product out the door.

The same story as Anthem.

 

[Krathoon]

Why do the vampire nests have giant hearts? What are their purpose?

The game does have some weird ideas. They made their own mythos.

 

[Pelta88]

59 on meta?

Damn

 

[fart town usa]

Does anyone else find this guy insanely annoying?

I don’t want to be cruel, but his voice and bizarre intonation drives me round the bend.

He also sounds like he has rabies.

I agree 100% and yet I watch his stuff. Not for insight, just because.

It's strangely mesmerizing.

 

[Luigi Mario]

Ok, so that means Microsoft had ~3 years overseeing this project. No supposed financial burden due to a combination of the gamepass model and Microsoft's backing yet this is the product that gets shoved out the door.

Sorry, but it doesn't correlate.

Just think about all the talking points that would have been brought up if Redfall had received a high Metascore and widespread acclaim. Certain people would be praising Microsoft for publishing such a well-received original IP, however Bethesda greenlighting and financing the game's development would barely get mentioned.

 

[adamsapple]

There’s no way this game was in full production for 5 years. Arkane Austin was working on other shit. Looking at the amount of content the game has, and everything else really, can’t see this game being in full production for more than three years.

No definitely not, something somewhere got real side tracked, it's like how despite being announced and 'in development' for such a long time, the actual development of Athem all took place in the final 18 months.

We don't know if there were any versions of this game scrapped and restarted between 2017 and 2023.

This would make for a real interesting No Clip style documentary

 

[Justin9mm]

Imagine what will happen if Starfield if bad

Nothing from an actual change perspective! Xbox will keep pretending it's all good and people who have an Xbox with GP will still have an Xbox with GP and life will go on. GP is their life blood. Nothing to see here.

Xbox fans (I myself have a Series X with GP Ultimate) have always been in denial when it comes to the Xbox has no games narrative. Xbox needed GP to not die! Which is a bad thing for competition, we don't want papa Sony to get an even bigger head than they already have!

But if Starfield is bad, there's going to be some entertaining threads on GAF. The drama is good! lol

 

[dotnotbot]

No definitely not, something somewhere got real side tracked, it's like how despite being announced and 'in development' for such a long time, the actual development of Athem all took place in the final 18 months.

We don't know if there were any versions of this game scrapped and restarted between 2017 and 2023.

This would make for a real interesting No Clip style documentary

Well, this means all or most of production happened under MS umbrella then.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

I agree 100% and yet I watch his stuff. Not for insight, just because.

It's strangely mesmerizing.

Agreed. I get the impression he drinks pints of mouthwash daily.

 

[adamsapple]

Well, this means all or most of production happened under MS umbrella then.

Could be, it's just speculation on my part. Arkane is a studio with good pedigree, they didn't start off the project with the goal to make this pos, something somewhere in the production went ary.

 

[Flabagast]

Poll is off fellow gaffers, game has now fallen below 60 on PC...

 

[ArcaneNLSC]

I remember when Arkane's head proudly said that Redfall's vampires was an allegory on rich. Guess they went "eat the rich" before "finish the game"

Still it is hilarious how with all the hype of "Arkane does not miss" we got Redfail, joining the ranks of Forgotten. It is like FO76 from BGS essentially.

You could say it was very rich of them to put out a game in such a poor state

 

[Chiggs]

Phil's Twitter feed:

 

[El Pistolero]

It is the final straw.

For once, Ryan is right on the money.

I think that all of this will be water under the bridge once Starfield launches (I expect it to fare really well critically)...

 

[Neon Xenon]

So how quickly do you think this game will get a price drop?

When the price does drop, here's a name for a thread: Pricefall

 

[Krathoon]

This is making me want to install my Arkane games.

 

[Krathoon]

Oh. I bet the price of the game will drop like a rock. I may buy it if it is $30.

 

[semiconscious]

Does anyone else find this guy insanely annoying?

I don’t want to be cruel, but his voice and bizarre intonation drives me round the bend.

He also sounds like he has rabies.

'this game is broke. it's unfinished. it's unpolished. it's unexcusable...'

takes one to know one?...

 

[Krathoon]

Do stores still have that policy where you can't return a game if you opened it?

Does Microsoft Store have refunds?

Really, you could form a lawsuit over that if they keep releasing broken games.

 

[adamsapple]

Do stores still have that policy where you can't return a game if you opened it?

Does Microsoft Store have refunds?

Really, you could form a lawsuit over that if they keep releasing broken games.

yes
yes
er .. ok

 

[sainraja]

Do stores still have that policy where you can't return a game if you opened it?

Stores do, yes.

Does Microsoft Store have refunds?

It depends, and the options you select might also influence the decision. I have been denied a refund for a game where I had less than 30 minutes of playtime. If the game is actually buggy and unplayable, it's an easy case, but if you try to be honest, e.g., say you didn't like the game or it wasn't what you thought, it's a denial (you can't really select those as an option to do a refund, so basically, you have to say what might not be applicable). Over the phone, you might have a better chance.

 

[Krathoon]

yes
yes
er .. ok

So, you are better off going digital so you can get a refund.

Still, they are trying to make it so you have a subscription so you can't demand any money back.

 

[Jaybe]

 

[Krathoon]

We have reached a point where publishers are using patches as way to make false promises. It is kind of like a scam.

Sometimes, they take the money and run. That happened with Ultima 9.

 

[Krathoon]

We need to start having a "chimney test" on games.

 

[LegendOfKage]

I think it is not possible to claim all 19 titles anymore.
For example I was unable to claim Fallout4 and Until Dawn.

I just checked, and both are still there for me. Maybe it depends on your region.

 

[Varteras]

Could be, it's just speculation on my part. Arkane is a studio with good pedigree, they didn't start off the project with the goal to make this pos, something somewhere in the production went ary.

Do you think perhaps they lost key people? Because this is very uncharacteristic of them. Though one would think that any high profile departures would have been news as it seems to be these days. I don't remember any such news.

 

[adamsapple]

Do you think perhaps they lost key people? Because this is very uncharacteristic of them. Though one would think that any high profile departures would have been news as it seems to be these days. I don't remember any such news.

The only notable thing I can find is that one of the co-founders left in 2017, but no such report of a talent exodus with him. I don't know if one co-founder leaving would have such a massive impact, especially as by 2017 the studio would be firmly established, not a start-up.

Arkane Studios co-founder exits after 18 years

Moving on to "reflect on what is important to me and my future"

www.polygon.com

 

[StreetsofBeige]

That's the new line of chimneys out right now with asphalt insulation.

 

[Krathoon]

I think what happened is that there was a little development hell and then they had to get it out the door.

It also seems like there was some cost cutting with the cutscenes.

Just speculating. Has anyone played through the entire game?

I would say this turned out better than the Saints Row reboot.

 

[Astray]

The idea that Xbox management couldn't overturn the Redfall ship if they wanted to is laughable, they clearly had no issues in changing the scope of development, from cancelling a PS5 version to changing the game's MTX-based system, to delaying the game these are all decisions that Xbox management had already made that surely changed the trajectory of the title in some way. They also thought this was not only worth releasing, but they also gave it more promotion than Hifi Rush!

They also had the option of aborting or completely rebooting development at any time as well. The idea that they had 0 options is basically cope from the same people who told you that they should have all the credit for HiFi Rush. The outrage about this game is just a preview for what will happen if Starfield is anything less than P E R F E C T.

Turning multiplat-focused titles into system sellers is a slippery slope.

 

[Balducci30]

Well… it ain’t great. Shame. You can see elements of old Arkane but why god would they try to make a co op looter shooter - not even if this was polished to hell would it actually work as a good game. Sad.

 

[Krathoon]

It is kind of like they made a $40 game and they are trying to sell it for $70.

It is a AA game, not at AAA one.

I am fine with that, but don't charge $70.

 

[Krathoon]

It kind of reminds of the recent Valkyrie Elysium game. It was similar quality, but they charged $40.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I think a bunch of the problems with this game is that it was initially primarily a PS5 game, following the Deathloop and Ghostwire pattern. Then according to the director of Redfall, MS comes in and says we just got bought by MS and that was a huge seed change. They said, no PS5, were gonna do Game Pass, Xbox and PC.

This was a PS5 games rushed out to Game Pass. Look at the issues with Ghostwire on Xbox.

 

[McCarth]

It is kind of like they made a $40 game and they are trying to sell it for $70.

It is a AA game, not at AAA one.

I am fine with that, but don't charge $70.

Isn’t this ultimately the fear of what the gamepass model can do?

“Downgrade” AAA titles to keep costs and scope down to drive quicker release to the service, then recoup with additional features and paid MTX if engagement warrants?

 

[Krathoon]

Isn’t this ultimately the fear of what the gamepass model can do?

“Downgrade” AAA titles to keep costs and scope down to drive quicker release to the service, then recoup with additional features and paid MTX if engagement warrants?

Yeah. That is totally what they are doing. This is a Gamepass game. They are building up the library.

 

[Crispy Gamer]

I agree 100% and yet I watch his stuff. Not for insight, just because.

It's strangely mesmerizing.

Same here man

 

[fart town usa]

It is kind of like they made a $40 game and they are trying to sell it for $70.

It is a AA game, not at AAA one.

I am fine with that, but don't charge $70.

I said something similar earlier in the thread. The footage of Redfall reminds me of the jank you see in some early VR games, but at least VR titles generally sell for 20-40 (usually less) and the jank is kind of to be expected at times in those early releases. Plus, even a janky VR game can be crazy fun cause you're actually in the game.

This 4 player coop shooter is on sale for $19 right now (PSVR2) and it's cross-platform (I think)



Redfall has no business being as bad as it is at launch and no one should be giving it a pass.

 

[Feel Like I'm On 42]

The thing that bothers me so much about Redfall is Microsofts willingness to let it release in this state. By the way by all accounts it is a different game on PC. Graphics, performance, and obviously mouse and keyboard are so much better according to people who've played in on both platforms. It's still not a good game on PC mind you.

How that relates to Microsoft? They allowed the Series consoles to get an unplayable, ugly game with terrible deadzone and controller response as the first $70 game. They allowed that to happen to their loyal customers.

That's beyond being "tone deaf and out of touch". They're also setting a really bad precedent because if they allow their own first party games to release in such pitiful condition, how can we expect third party games to release on these consoles?

 

[Salz01]

It’s odd. I wasnt going to download it, since it’s shit. Save the bandwidth. But now it seems it sucks so bad I want to experience it myself. I might download it. Just so I can harp on it it too after actually playing it. Maybe thats their entire goal? Been debating about cancelling my Xbox sub.

 

[Ozzie666]

The thing that bothers me so much about Redfall is Microsofts willingness to let it release in this state. By the way by all accounts it is a different game on PC. Graphics, performance, and obviously mouse and keyboard are so much better according to people who've played in on both platforms. It's still not a good game on PC mind you.

How that relates to Microsoft? They allowed the Series consoles to get an unplayable, ugly game with terrible deadzone and controller response as the first $70 game. They allowed that to happen to their loyal customers.

That's beyond being "tone deaf and out of touch". They're also setting a really bad precedent because if they allow their own first party games to release in such pitiful condition, how can we expect third party games to release on these consoles?

Their hands off approach, freedom and trust approach for developers is coming back to haunt them. They thought HALO Infinite was in a good place and had no idea it was terrible. Is that because they didn't see it? or do they not understand gaming and development at all? Even after HALO was shown, they seemed impressed with it before the public backlash and the internet went crazy.

I seriously don't know any more. It's disturbing.

 

[Gambit2483]

Do you think perhaps they lost key people? Because this is very uncharacteristic of them. Though one would think that any high profile departures would have been news as it seems to be these days. I don't remember any such news.

I have a feeling 2 things happened

1. The budget dried up quick. Maybe that's part of the Gamepass effect but you can tell Corners were cut (low presentation efforts, missing animations, lack of playtesting, etc.) and I can only assume it's because they didn't have the budget for it.

2. They needed more time and were told to just ship it out based on a limitation MS put on themselves. Remember, they guaranteed that the game would be out by June. They knew it needed more time but...arbitrary promises to keep.

 

[Ansphn]

Oh. I bet the price of the game will drop like a rock. I may buy it if it is $30.

Wait until it's $9.99 with 3 month free Gamepass and a $50 gift card.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Their hands off approach, freedom and trust approach for developers is coming back to haunt them. They thought HALO Infinite was in a good place and had no idea it was terrible. Is that because they didn't see it? or do they not understand gaming and development at all? Even after HALO was shown, they seemed impressed with it before the public backlash and the internet went crazy.

I seriously don't know any more. It's disturbing.

I dont work in a game company, but NEVER should any company in any industry give their employees too much money or freedom to do whatever they want. I'm not saying be micromanaging slave masters with a whip, but every process and project needs coordination, timleness and execution. Both bosses and workers need to honour that and live by it. It's not a "boss or worker is right situation" It's both being accountable.

In finance, our dept has to do financials and submissions end of month, quarter and year. We know the cadence and calendar. You follow it. If something break down, you work OT. You dont say to the boss, "sorry I'm late, but I'll get around to do the submission to US head office next week". No, you sit there and do it till it's done and done well enough to submit.

Even if you watch Shark Tank, I've heard Daymond John say many times you got to focus. And the worst situation to have is too much money or too little money. When you got too much resources and time, you kind of dick around not giving a shit.

My old boss (who retired) could be a nagger sometimes, but overall very good. Easily the most organized and on-time boss ever. Whether its getting us in the department to get things done with flow chart time lines, or him even just showing up at the meeting, he was always on time. Looking back, at the time he could be a nagger, but man did he get us to do shit efficiently and on time.

You dont even need fancy flow charts to be organized. You just got to know your task and do it well. And then pass it off to the next guy in time so he/she can do their part.

Maybe a lot of these issues stem from covid downtime and work from home where everyone trying to coordinate video game making on conference calls for two years and now 3 times a week has lead to serious breakdowns. I dont know.

 

[ryantetric]

Just played a few hours on PC as Dev, and it was pretty fun overall. The gunplay feels like Deathloop or B4B. There's tons of resources and loot to collect, found a bunch of decent weapons. I tried to not watch too much of the previews and whatnot but it's what I was expecting so far for the most part. I didn't run into anything so far that was buggy or weird, but then again didn't play coop yet. Does it really become that bad after many more hours?? And this is coming from playing a lot of Dead Island 2, in which I need to finish that first before getting too into this one. The outrage of the internet doesn't surprise me anymore but I dunno what people were expecting.

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Gave it a fair shot, played for 4 hrs. I am thinking this is a GAAS title day 1 release. They removed a ton of stuff that would indicate as such after Suicide Squad debacle.

Map is like a huge Arkane level. It's open world but you don't just press a stick to reach your objective. It needs some exploration to do. Also gun fights and gameplay loop is quiet engaging. Also the puzzles are truly elaborate, Sea of Thieves style. Game obviously expects you to spend a ton of time to figure it all out eventually.

They need to do a whole bunch of rebalancing wrt loot, encounter placement etc. And fix all visual bugs and glitches. It will be awesome after that.

 

[Simpkin92]

Why not buy a PS5 ? It's an easy anwser

I plan to. Never been anti PlayStation, just always loved Halo, the controller layout, and general aesthetics of Xbox. Going to buy Spider-Man, God of War, and Returnal when I do

 

[Bridges]

8 and a half hours in now and am starting to see some frustrating glitches. Most of the game it's just been dumb visual stuff I can laugh off or the enemies occasionally getting stuck in geometry, but at a certain point we had a player get stuck in the ground who could not move until we restarted. Later on the same thing happened to me. Seems to be caused my running and sliding and colliding with certain objects.

Still enjoying the game, but the more I play the more apparent it becomes that the game is completely unfinished.

The worst part about all of this though is the 17G achievements.
Why would they do this, on top of everything else negative surrounding this game, how does a first party studio not know the stigma around odd numbered GS. It's just comical that this game of all games is the one to do it.

 

[Pimpollo818]

rolled credits. a trainwreck of a game. reminds me of one of those "this movie is so bad I couldn't stop watching"

pros:
weapon animations are solid

cons: everything else
-open Hub runs counter to Arkane's strengths. the deliberately paced gameplay and maps are gone. there are interiors to explore, sure, some even forcing you from using the front door, but almost no thought is required nor is player creativity encouraged like it was in Prey.
-why bother: resources, in world texts, clearing vampire hearts
-sped through the game once I found the petrification wave gun _ stake gun combo could 1 shot bosses