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Reggie: "Xbox(2) ... is a mistake"
- Thread starter Kon Tiki
- Start date
BeOnEdge said:
:lol
Sega (unlike Nintendo) was a worthless joke of a company that somehow never figured out how to turn a profit from the Dreamcast and the Genesis. Good riddance to that POS company.
At the rate at which Microsoft is going, they will likely end up making games for the N6. :lol
Kobun Heat said:
Hahaha... Kobun level headed.
I never said MS didn't have missteps. I don't think I applied a 'double standard'. All I'm basing my argument is on what the customer gets vs. what the company invests in.
It's sad someone that does reporting as a 'gaming journalist' moves so quickly to dismiss MS' efforts as you have (sure Mr. Level Headed).
If you really think this:
,
you really are short sighted.
MS has spent tons of money and made some really bad decisions, but to just trivialize their effort and successes saying 'give me twenty billion dollars right now and I'll be a key player in the console race by Friday' is just ignorant.
This is without getting into WHY MS got into console gaming in the first place, which is to PROTECT their business, which all boils down to where the PC/Media center of the future will reside. But of course, you couldn't even begin to think of that.
Well, when the next viable competitor is the N-Gage, there's really not too many other choices. Again, I don't care about that. I care about having a great up-do-date product on my hands.jarrod said:
Nintendo is in a hole with their console business. They've gone from being the #1 hardware manufacture to a fading 3rd. They sell less and less console hardware and software each gen. Gamecube is almost on its death bed.
Of course Nintendo going to talk crap, they're taking a constant beating.
Of course Nintendo going to talk crap, they're taking a constant beating.
jarrod said:
This will be my last post on this, but you sure completely distort what I try to convey.
There's just no option for portable gaming other than the GBA. Is that so hard to understand? Of course it's going to be successful. And I'm not saying it's a bad product, as I don't think it is, otherwise it would've bombed. Does that make it a great product? Absolutely not. But sure, when there's no other option, you take what you can get.
I just think we could've gotten a significantly better product and Nintendo would've been profitable. I can't see why people keep excusing this. It's ridiculous. Same with the price of the GBA carts. What a damn rip off.
Or maybe you're just bad at getting your point across.IJoel said:
Mobile gaming doesn't exist? You really think GBA has essentially gotten it's market and userbase by default? "Hanhdeld Console Gaming" doesn't have to exist, if consumers didn't like GBA as a product they simply wouldn't buy it. You can play games at home or on your phone/pda/PocketPC/nGage anyway, Game Boy is in no way a necessity.IJoel said:
In terms of media, silicon ROM is notably expensive. Cart pricing can't be helped really, though it's pretty clear Nintendo's sensitive to this issue (dropping GBA license fees to drive down MSRPs, investing in 3DROm as a low cost replacement).IJoel said:
Kobun Heat said:
Nintendo's not invincible, they recorded a quarterly loss for the first time in their entire history last fiscal year, and that not only happened in Q2 but quickly again in Q4, with their shift from the GBA to the DS it could happen sooner than you think especially if the DS fails
MS never intended to make money on the Xbox, they were prepared to lose $5B on it, so as long as their losses (is it @ $3B?) are above that figure its not considered a failure
Date of Lies
Banned
Xbox is obsolete hardware too, GeForce 2.5 (or 3) my ass.
This just isn't an argument. Would you have rather MS pushed to get the latest, up to date, more none-obsolete graphics card and microprocessor so you could pay 300$ more for an Xbox? I think there was better out on the market at the time than what they put in Xbox, (unless I'm completely shitting myself tech-wise), it just wouldn't have been a good business choice to make the consumer pay twice as much.
This just isn't an argument. Would you have rather MS pushed to get the latest, up to date, more none-obsolete graphics card and microprocessor so you could pay 300$ more for an Xbox? I think there was better out on the market at the time than what they put in Xbox, (unless I'm completely shitting myself tech-wise), it just wouldn't have been a good business choice to make the consumer pay twice as much.
TekunoRobby said:
This is just normal corporate strategy BS. Competitor A attempts to do something different, and then Competitor B immediately claims A's plans are unsound.
Even if Nintendo (or Sony for that matter) thought that a late 2005 Xenon launch was a good idea, they would never say so. In fact, Sony and Nintendo are both probably quite worried about a 2005 Xenon launch, so its in their best interest to slam M$'s strategy as foolish and a mistake. Enough quotes like Reggie's above in the Wall Street Journal and Big Bill & Friends might start to question their timing.
The last thing Nintendo or Sony want is a strong Xenon launch 6 to 12 months before they launch their systems. By 2006, Microsoft may have slightly inferior technology (debatable), but they will have an installed base and cost advantage that could position the Xenon as the next Genesis. (or the next Dreamcast.... but Microsoft has much more business sense and cash than Sega to try and prevent that type of disaster)
To put it this way, if you were Microsoft, would you want to launch Xenon in 2006 at the exact same time as the two most successful gaming companies in the world? Who in the world would want to go up against Gran Turismo 5, FF13, Mario & Zelda Revolution, etc. right out of the gates? I'd rather have a year head start than repeat the last 4 years of Xbox's questionable "success" (industry & hardcore respect, billions in loses).
Top 50 GBA games in Na have outsold top 50 Xbox games in NA? I don't believe that. I see the NDA charts posted here and GBA sales are weak. I beleive last month or the month prior to that the best game was something like 60k. How is that good? I believe the GBA software sales are even worse than GC aswell.
jarrod said:
To generate a preference of course they have to be in competition. If GBA is the consumers choice why arent there more developers concentrating on GBA? Theres far more people that prefer GBA yeah? Why not advertise GBA version of POP over console versions?
Can we compare dual shock 2? Memory cards? Tamagotchis? Any other consumer products?
You are bonkers
I believe you don't know what you're talking about. Let's take a quick look at the top 5...Shompola said:
Xbox
-Halo: Combat Evolved (3,528,480)
-Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell (1,462,138)
-Project Gotham: World Street Racer (1,174,130)
-Grand Theft Auto Double Pack (1,093,768)
-Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon (945,412)
GBA
-Pokemon Ruby/Sapphire (4,100,929)
-Super Mario World: Super Mario Advance 2 (2,251,797)
-Super Mario Advance (2,126,166)
-Mario Kart: Super Circuit (1,858,833)
-Yu-Gi-OH! Eternal Duelist Soul (1,271,694) old numbers from April 2004
Kobun Heat
Member
By the way, I do consider it well within the realm of possibility that MS could dominate the next generation, considering the forward progress they've made. I just don't consider it a foregone conclusion.
EDIT: Oh, I guess we're talking about something totally different now. Back to work.
EDIT: Oh, I guess we're talking about something totally different now. Back to work.
Insertia said:Nintendo is in a hole with their console business. They've gone from being the #1 hardware manufacture to a fading 3rd. They sell less and less console hardware and software each gen. Gamecube is almost on its death bed.
Of course Nintendo going to talk crap, they're taking a constant beating.
Since you like to focus on trends: NEC (huge corporation), Sega and Matsushita (another huge corporation) all made consoles that never made money. NEC is now making the Flipper (GCN), Matsushita is now making the GOD drive (GCN) and Sega is now making games for the GCN. Based upon past trends, Microsoft is next in line to eventually exit this industry and make games (or some other product) for a Nintendo console.
To be fair, there's a shit ton of GBA software that doesn't sell anything... but the top of the charts does quite well. Also, Top 50 lists don't take into consideration things like sales trends & momentum - this time next year the Top 50 XBX could indeed have surpased GBA.
I think everyone needs to calm down.
Reggie didn't make it out to be that MS was doomed or anything...he (and alot of Nintendo) just seems to think it's a mistake. And I'm sorry, but I agree with him to a point.
If we find out that not only is Xenon is coming out, arguably, too soon without the power edge they attracted their audience with this generation AND if they make the wrong decisions regarding BC, HD-DVD and other features that people expect from them then yes Nintendo is correct. However, if they make the right decisions and capitalize on an early Christmas launch then they could be on to something. Features aside, the benifits/negatives of the Xenon aside ('cos we still don't know enough to say anything) there's also something else that's bad about an early launch for MS. When Christmas comes next year and people will see the beautiful swan songs for GAMECUBE & PS2, while alot of the X-BOX last breaths have either been moved to or overshaddowed by the Xenon launch. So where does that leave current (especially recent) X-BOX buyers? They'll have to upgrade while the other two systems are still going. It gives mass consumers the impression that the first X-BOX's life has been shortened...hell I mean GAMECUBE is getting RE4 & the new LOZ next year as HIGH profile sellers...what will X-BOX have?* And if there's no BC to help the transition all that X-BOX momentum just WON'T carry over well into Xenon!
Another thing I'd like to mention is each user-base will be starting over next generation so quoting GAMECUBE's current status (which is profitable and not far from X-BOX's marketshare anyways) doesn't mean the same will happen with "Revolution". I seriously doubt Nintendo will ignore MS and make a pastel colored, toy-like system again like they did this generation. That's the main reason they "beat" Nintendo so far this generation...'cos Nintendo shot themselves in the foot. Hooray, they "beat" a limping Nintendo...got news, Nintendo won't be limping next generation so what will MS do then?
Oh yeah and I have something to say to those X-BOT's that said MS shouldn't take advice from Nintendo in the hardware business...Why are they FOLLOWING Nintendo's system architecture, plans (focus less on features & power and more on the games) & business partners then? Yeah...that's right, shut up!
*PS-Please don't play the "list war", Jade Empire will be about the only high profile exclussive X-BOX game next year and I don't see it selling too well. RE4 and the new LOZ are higher profile and I don't see X-BOX having the staying power with those titles...which may be a reason why Xenon is coming so earlier!
Reggie didn't make it out to be that MS was doomed or anything...he (and alot of Nintendo) just seems to think it's a mistake. And I'm sorry, but I agree with him to a point.
If we find out that not only is Xenon is coming out, arguably, too soon without the power edge they attracted their audience with this generation AND if they make the wrong decisions regarding BC, HD-DVD and other features that people expect from them then yes Nintendo is correct. However, if they make the right decisions and capitalize on an early Christmas launch then they could be on to something. Features aside, the benifits/negatives of the Xenon aside ('cos we still don't know enough to say anything) there's also something else that's bad about an early launch for MS. When Christmas comes next year and people will see the beautiful swan songs for GAMECUBE & PS2, while alot of the X-BOX last breaths have either been moved to or overshaddowed by the Xenon launch. So where does that leave current (especially recent) X-BOX buyers? They'll have to upgrade while the other two systems are still going. It gives mass consumers the impression that the first X-BOX's life has been shortened...hell I mean GAMECUBE is getting RE4 & the new LOZ next year as HIGH profile sellers...what will X-BOX have?* And if there's no BC to help the transition all that X-BOX momentum just WON'T carry over well into Xenon!
Another thing I'd like to mention is each user-base will be starting over next generation so quoting GAMECUBE's current status (which is profitable and not far from X-BOX's marketshare anyways) doesn't mean the same will happen with "Revolution". I seriously doubt Nintendo will ignore MS and make a pastel colored, toy-like system again like they did this generation. That's the main reason they "beat" Nintendo so far this generation...'cos Nintendo shot themselves in the foot. Hooray, they "beat" a limping Nintendo...got news, Nintendo won't be limping next generation so what will MS do then?
Oh yeah and I have something to say to those X-BOT's that said MS shouldn't take advice from Nintendo in the hardware business...Why are they FOLLOWING Nintendo's system architecture, plans (focus less on features & power and more on the games) & business partners then? Yeah...that's right, shut up!
*PS-Please don't play the "list war", Jade Empire will be about the only high profile exclussive X-BOX game next year and I don't see it selling too well. RE4 and the new LOZ are higher profile and I don't see X-BOX having the staying power with those titles...which may be a reason why Xenon is coming so earlier!
DrGAKMAN said:
Sadly, they could really use them this year...
DrGAKMAN said:
This is a very good point and one that isn't often made. M$ long term plans for Xbox support really aren't clear... They may have some good shit up their sleaves left for 2005, but very little of it has been revealed. Will M$ simply abandon Xbox in Q4.05? I wouldn't put it past Microsoft to significantly reduce support, but it would absolutely ruin their reputatation and their chances of success with Xenon if they can't successfully manage two platforms until at least Xmas 2006. They likely have a few titles from Rare which haven't been announced that could support their 1st Party Xbox publishing through to 2006.
AlphaSnake
...and that, kids, was the first time I sucked a dick for crack
Here's a little something they teach in Business 101:
If you're losing money, but are gaining a significant bit of marketshare: you're winning.
If you're making money, but at the same time severely losing marketshare: you're losing.
And this is ultimately what's going on. Nintendo's console marketshare is severely dropping and we all know this. Anybody who tries to say that it's not severely dropping is a fool in denial. Microsoft is looking at the big picture; looking down ahead; looking at what's in store. They have their prospects laid out and their projections in front of them. The Xbox is a success. The userbase is very devoted and will be more so when the next-gen version hits. MS knew that they were going to lose money. Their stance on the issue has always been gaining it back towards the end of the Xbox's cycle (which I think they've just began doing) and software. They're not losing a terrible amount of money on the Xbox, and haven't been for a while.
So now that they've got marketshare and a household name, this is where the follow-up to the Xbox comes into play and begins to rack in the profits and pick up even more marketshare.
What's going to happen to Nintendo? Their newest console won't be even as worthy as the GC. The "revolution" will be waived off by many who've already purchased their PS2s and Xbox-2s. And you know why? Because despite profiting, Nintendo lost a shit load of marketshare this generation; way too much.
Watch it happen.
If you're losing money, but are gaining a significant bit of marketshare: you're winning.
If you're making money, but at the same time severely losing marketshare: you're losing.
And this is ultimately what's going on. Nintendo's console marketshare is severely dropping and we all know this. Anybody who tries to say that it's not severely dropping is a fool in denial. Microsoft is looking at the big picture; looking down ahead; looking at what's in store. They have their prospects laid out and their projections in front of them. The Xbox is a success. The userbase is very devoted and will be more so when the next-gen version hits. MS knew that they were going to lose money. Their stance on the issue has always been gaining it back towards the end of the Xbox's cycle (which I think they've just began doing) and software. They're not losing a terrible amount of money on the Xbox, and haven't been for a while.
So now that they've got marketshare and a household name, this is where the follow-up to the Xbox comes into play and begins to rack in the profits and pick up even more marketshare.
What's going to happen to Nintendo? Their newest console won't be even as worthy as the GC. The "revolution" will be waived off by many who've already purchased their PS2s and Xbox-2s. And you know why? Because despite profiting, Nintendo lost a shit load of marketshare this generation; way too much.
Watch it happen.