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[BocoDragon]

I'd love to see a film that stages itself as a prequel set during the second renaissance. Explore that conflict in full, and then reveal towards the end that the whole film is actually occurring in a new version of the matrix set way after Revolutions. The new version is designed to prevent anomalies by keeping humanity in a constant state of conflict based on their own history. As systemic imbalance grows, we learn that the one might have returned...

In the Matrix Online, there was this subplot about a blind young woman who woke up in a hospital with a jumbled memory. Her name was an anagram of Thomas Anderson. I always loved that idea... Why not scrap the fact that it was in an MMO, and make her the protagonist of the new movie instead? No one would have any fucking idea what was going on. Is she a resurrection of the one? If so, then how is this a prequel? Re-enter the architect!

Spoiler

Not serious on that last bit.

I'd be there in a fucking second. I'm sure some of you will laugh at that idea... but whatever.

LMAO at the link.

 

[RionaaM]

So you have the Animatrix and you haven't watched it yet? Correct that shit

I will, don't worry. Planning on watching all episodes with these same friends as soon as we can.

Seems like The Second Renaissance is great, at least from the number of people saying I should watch it. Don't tempt me guys, I already told my friends I'd watch it with them!

Shouldn't it be "Welcome Back, Mr. Anderson"?

Nope, that's what Smith says at the beginning of the final fight in Revolutions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KlS4jTLIvt4&t=0m39s

I wish Neo having telekinesis and super-cool vision in the real world was explained by it being a higher level of the Matrix, and him dying caused him to wake up again.

But him having those abilities in the real world ended up with him just being magic.

I've heard a theory about Zion being just another layer in a more complex Matrix, and it was very interesting, even though I don't believe it myself.

I feel there's a lot of interesting ideas in the 3rd movie but still maybe only one movie spread across the last two. Part of the original movie's power is in its brevity - it explains gently, and leaves something to the viewer. The narrative leaps in the final two films get a bit too wordy and construct heavy to push through.

The Architect scene is amazing, though.

As I recall, the act of Neo entering Smith's program basically gives Smith (a program) some code - a slice of Neo - effectively making him a Virus. He's still a program, but operating under Neo's expanded rules and not under the safeguards of the system.

He's meant to be the other side of the coin to the Oracle (his nemesis). His ruthless pragmatism has given him the conviction that everything is cause-and-effect, and that free will is an illusion. This is meant to offset the very message the heroes had been running off of. Simultaneously he is showing how software (AI) runs virtually everything in the Matrix, and, properly configured, can be used to bend the rules (making Smith seem a little less impossible).

I don't entirely disagree, but the Oracle explains Morpheus' religious fervor in the first movie. The prophecy is the tentpole of his existence. It gave him the conviction to live and then when Neo turned out, the conviction that everything he believed was true.

The people of Zion clearly would call his bullshit, but he basically just recruited Michael Jordan. They went from running for their lives from any single agent to actually having a countermeasure. And the situation vs. the machines was near dire; even if the grand poobah's said not to encourage him, the populace clearly wanted something to believe in (see Neo's popularity in the real world).

Neo's newfound powers are never truly explained, but I get the impression he was more or less imprinted onto the Matrix itself, existing in both worlds so capable of seeing in both. But that doesn't explain his great WiFi range, so there's that...

This is a very though post, thanks for writing it. I can see how Neo would have transferred his powers into Smith, yes. I still don't get what the Merovingian is supposed to represent. The Oracle is the intuitive part of the Matrix, and the Architect is the logical one. Both are regarded as their creator. Who is the Merovingian then?

You make a pretty good point about Zion needing a charismatic leader, and Morpheus is exactly that. He gives them something to believe in, some hope. Still, he didn't seem the same character in the original movie than in the sequels, like he went overboard with his beliefs in the prophecy.

I'm glad to see some positive reflections on the sequels, OP. Maybe I'm just a Wachowski apologist, or maybe I was so young when I saw the sequels that my perspective is skewed. I don't really care either way.

I think the Wachowski's definitely knew what they were trying to say. When I was a teenager, the sequels were always the films I constantly went back to to try and "figure out". To others, maybe it was bad storytelling... but to me it was fascinating. I feel like I've got a pretty good grip on them now, and that's pretty gratifying.

The Wachowski's said something similar around the release of Cloud Atlas, but I think the following adequately sums up the sequels thematically: the idea of reality ought to be defined subjectively, rather than objectively. It doesn't matter which reality is "objectively true". Your reality is defined by the things that mean something to you. Neo begins with the search for objective truth... in what lies "beyond"... but he ends up anchoring his idea of reality in humanity, and more specifically in Trinity.

The architect's speech is so intentionally disorienting (meta, even), but the point is clear. The rabbit hole goes deeper, and the system of control doesn't end with the matrix. There's something more going on beyond Zion, the machines, and the agents. This is made clearer at the end of the second film when Neo is able to use his powers in "the real world". How deep is Neo willing to follow the rabbit hole? I think at one point Neo simply says "Fuck this. This isn't the shit that matters to me." He chooses love over the system, and in so doing he defines his own reality. He makes that choice the second he chooses to walk out on the architect. It's basically just existentialism 101.

In some ways, that idea is in direct contrast to the first film... but in other ways, the original basically begged the question. What if our world isn't real? Turns out it isn't... but can't you ask the same thing about the next layer of "real" you find yourself in? I think that's an important factor in tracking Neo's growth as a character. The whole trilogy is basically a search for meaning. Neo begins by searching for a reality beyond the one pulled in front of our eyes. He searches for it in computers, and in the beyond. He's convinced there's something more out there. In the first film, he finds it. In the sequels, doubt grows. How "real" is the real world? The architect gives us a scenario resembling an infinite regress. A system of multiple layers of reality, and repeating cycles...all designed to assert control. That entire sequence is basically a continuation of Neo's discussion with Morpheus.. only colder, more complex, and less human. He's literally talking to a computer, and what's his reaction? He flips the bird, says fuck you, and goes off to save his girlfriend.

Neo chooses to reject the architect's machinations, and thus breaks the system. I think it's intentional that we never really have a clear idea of what exactly this "system" entailed. We're never sure why Neo could use his powers in the real world (outside of the notion that the real world was just another layer for those that rejected the Matrix), and why Zion was caught up in this meta-cycle of destruction and resurrection. Neo never fully knew either, because he no longer cared. He see's that he's just one of the system's many tools, and he chooses to walk away. In so doing, he chooses to define his own reality through the people that mean the most to him, rather than through increasingly obscured, objective notions of "the real". He's fighting for something he believes in now; something human. He's lost the existential edge he had in the first film, and his arc is complete. The Matrix Revolutions represents the consequences of Neo's choice played out in real time. I don't know. I think it's pretty powerful stuff. Maybe a little bit obscure, but that's what made the entire trilogy live on in my head. All three films are fairly obscure, at least at first glance.

I think they're vastly underrated sequels.. and they make up a great trilogy overall. I felt the same way about Reloaded and Revolutions as you do now when I was younger... but my opinion has swapped in recent years. Revolutions has better pacing but I find Reloaded is the more intriguing of the two. That said, I'd concede that the first film works the best as a single tale. The sequels aren't as successful neither in terms of storytelling, nor in the communication of their ideas... Still, I think there's so much to dig into and all three are very important to me.

Anyway... tl:dr: Cool movies. I might be over-reading them, but I'm totally fine with that.

This is also really interesting. Lots of great posts in this thread, even if I can't quote them all. So you're saying that after his encounter with the Architect, Neo decided that we would believe what he wanted, and do everything because of his love for Trinity? That he kept fighting because of her? That it didn't matter anymore whether the "real world" was real or not? That he rejected the machines' control system, as he had rejected the Matrix before?

That makes a lot of sense, you know. It's great to read these interpretations, because they help me understand things that weren't clear to me, or that I had doubts about.

 

[Daft_Cat]

This is also really interesting. Lots of great posts in this thread, even if I can't quote them all. So you're saying that after his encounter with the Architect, Neo decided that we would believe what he wanted, and do everything because of his love for Trinity? That he kept fighting because of her? That it didn't matter anymore whether the "real world" was real or not? That he rejected the machines' control system, as he had rejected the Matrix before?

That makes a lot of sense, you know. It's great to read these interpretations, because they help me understand things that weren't clear to me, or that I had doubts about.

Yah. I think you've got it. Basically, the deeper the rabbit hole goes, the more Neo begins to understand that it's up to him to reconstruct his own reality.

The Matrix Reloaded is more or less an objective deconstruction of everything formulated in the first film... and Revolutions follows Neo as he subjectively redefines his reality according to what means the most to him.

As far as I know, this interview presents the most in depth explanation that the Wachowskis themselves have ever offered. It's a bit heady and abstract... but it helped me out a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXR4MCuA0o#t=1020

They only touch on The Matrix for a few minutes, but the entire interview is full of good stuff if you're interested in their work as a whole.

 

[Crazymoogle]

This is a very though post, thanks for writing it. I can see how Neo would have transferred his powers into Smith, yes. I still don't get what the Merovingian is supposed to represent. The Oracle is the intuitive part of the Matrix, and the Architect is the logical one. Both are regarded as their creator. Who is the Merovingian then?

The survivor of a much earlier Matrix. The "black market". The ultimate pragmatist. He has seen "The One" many times before and doesn't think rebooting the entire thing again is worth the trouble. If the Oracle argues intuition and the Architect argues the system, the Merovingian argues the game is fixed and you may as well enjoy what you've got. He also gives our heroes the knowledge that software can be negotiated with...if you have the right leverage. In many ways an evolution of Pantoliano's traitor from the first film.

You make a pretty good point about Zion needing a charismatic leader, and Morpheus is exactly that. He gives them something to believe in, some hope. Still, he didn't seem the same character in the original movie than in the sequels, like he went overboard with his beliefs in the prophecy.

I would agree; skipping ahead of their exploits hides any sort of progression for his character. It's easy to see that striking gold perhaps made him arrogantly confident, but I think we all might have enjoyed seeing the golden trio smashing the Matrix a bit and growing in stature rather than jumping to new guy Link and family.

 

[Escape Goat]

Yah. I think you've got it. Basically, the deeper the rabbit hole goes, the more Neo begins to understand that it's up to him to reconstruct his own reality.

The Matrix Reloaded is more or less an objective deconstruction of everything formulated in the first film... and Revolutions follows Neo as he subjectively redefines his reality according to what means the most to him.

As far as I know, this interview presents the most in depth explanation that the Wachowskis themselves have ever offered. It's a bit heady and abstract... but it helped me out a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXR4MCuA0o#t=1020

They only touch on The Matrix for a few minutes, but the entire interview is full of good stuff if you're interested in their work as a whole.

Lana pls. That hair looks likevshe ripped it off some muppet.

 

[RionaaM]

Yah. I think you've got it. Basically, the deeper the rabbit hole goes, the more Neo begins to understand that it's up to him to reconstruct his own reality.

The Matrix Reloaded is more or less an objective deconstruction of everything formulated in the first film... and Revolutions follows Neo as he subjectively redefines his reality according to what means the most to him.

As far as I know, this interview presents the most in depth explanation that the Wachowskis themselves have ever offered. It's a bit heady and abstract... but it helped me out a lot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MXR4MCuA0o#t=1020

They only touch on The Matrix for a few minutes, but the entire interview is full of good stuff if you're interested in their work as a whole.

I'm afraid to watch that video for fear of Cloud Atlas spoilers, which I haven't seen yet. Is it safe to watch?

The survivor of a much earlier Matrix. The "black market". The ultimate pragmatist. He has seen "The One" many times before and doesn't think rebooting the entire thing again is worth the trouble. If the Oracle argues intuition and the Architect argues the system, the Merovingian argues the game is fixed and you may as well enjoy what you've got. He also gives our heroes the knowledge that software can be negotiated with...if you have the right leverage. In many ways an evolution of Pantoliano's traitor from the first film.

I would agree; skipping ahead of their exploits hides any sort of progression for his character. It's easy to see that striking gold perhaps made him arrogantly confident, but I think we all might have enjoyed seeing the golden trio smashing the Matrix a bit and growing in stature rather than jumping to new guy Link and family.

I get now who the Merovingian is, but I still fail to understand his function in the big picture. His motivation is trading information and taking advantage of everything he could, but what is his real purpose?

 

[APZonerunner]

In terms of Matrix-related stuff, the two-part Animatrix episode about how it all came to be and the human/machine war and all that is probably the second best part of the whole thing after the first movie. Great little piece of storytelling.

 

[agrajag]

I wish there were more info on the previous Ones. And Zion being destroyed/rebuilt.

 

[Daft_Cat]

I'm afraid to watch that video for fear of Cloud Atlas spoilers, which I haven't seen yet. Is it safe to watch?

Yah, it's safe. Just watch from around 17 to 20 minutes. When they bring the discussion back to Cloud Atlas (which they don't really spoil) just turn it off.

 

[Guy.brush]

Remember that even right after Matrix 1, one of the flaws people were pointing out was the cow argument.

"Why not use cows as batteries?" Simulate a lawn and DONE.
No Chosen Cow trying to break free.

The battery aspect of the world building never made any sense.
Can't remember if that was ever addressed in any game, animatrix, interview?

 

[Pandaman]

Remember that even right after Matrix 1, one of the flaws people were pointing out was the cow argument.

"Why not use cows as batteries?" Simulate a lawn and DONE.
No Chosen Cow trying to break free.

The battery aspect of the world building never made any sense.
Can't remember if that was ever addressed in any game, animatrix, interview?

The machines didn't want to end humanity, the matrix was the solution to keep the humans alive and the machines safe from them.