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Rumor: Ryzen 4000 series to offer up to 20% extra performance over 3000 series.

SantaC

Member
AMD Zen 3 (Source: Red Gaming Tech)

  • the integer performance should be about 10-12% higher
  • the FPU performance should be up to 50% higher
  • the average IPC gain should come out at + 17%
  • the clock rate gain of the current engineering samples (for the server area) is 100-200 MHz
  • the number of CPU cores from Ryzen 4000 should be equal to Ryzen 3000
AMD would be making several adjustments: Integer performance (integer calculations) will increase with 10 to 12 percent, while FPU performance (floating-point calculations) should increase by up to 50 percent. At the same time, slightly higher clock rates are expected. There is chatter of 100 to 200 MHz, which, together with the 17 percent increase in IPC, suggests a core performance increase of around anywhere from 15 to 20 percent compared to Zen2.

The new chips will be fabbed on the new 7 nm EUV (Extreme Ultraviolet) process from contract manufacturer TSMC and the architecture seems to be updated once again. Zen3 is said to be the last generation for the now aging AM4 socket. AMD will keep the number of cores similar to Ryzen 3000, which is six to sixteen physical CPU cores.



If this is true; AMD is about to take the gamer advantage which is Intels last stronghold.
 
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On the box of my 3700x it says 3600/4600. It's not even close to those clocks. It can't go further then 4,2.
So I advise anyone interested in the 4xxx series, to wait for reviews after launch.
 

Leonidas

Member
AMD will lose ground in multi-thread in 2020 by the fact that once 10th Gen launches soon they are no longer competing against HT-less CPUs. Intel 10th Gen having HT across the board is up to 25-30% extra performance over 9th Gen for multi-thread apps.

I'll believe Ryzen beating Intel in gaming when I see it. AMD has improved in this area but they are still behind and when 10th Gen launches very soon even a $250 i5 will have higher performance than a $500 AMD "gaming" CPU without the HT-limitation which held back 9th gen i5s.

zen3 is almost a year away. 10th Gen Intel launch is eminent. Intel will still have the gaming CPU crown (the only thing that matters for a PC gamer like me) for most if not all of 2020.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
AMD will lose ground in multi-thread in 2020 by the fact that once 10th Gen launches soon they are no longer competing against HT-less CPUs. Intel 10th Gen having HT across the board is up to 25-30% extra performance over 9th Gen for multi-thread apps.

I'll believe Ryzen beating Intel in gaming when I see it. AMD has improved in this area but they are still behind and when 10th Gen launches very soon even a $250 i5 will have higher performance than a $500 AMD "gaming" CPU without the HT-limitation which held back 9th gen i5s.

zen3 is almost a year away. 10th Gen Intel launch is eminent. Intel will still have the gaming CPU crown (the only thing that matters for a PC gamer like me) for most if not all of 2020.
You've been saying this and yet we still have no 10nm desktop CPU release date in sight. There was a wccftech rumor that they might come early 2020, but that has been the most recent news on it. It's also not known if whether IceLake will arrive on mainstream or HEDT first. Also, there is still the major issue of clock speeds Intel has to deal with.

10nm has and still is a disaster. Semiaccurate has been one of the most reliable reporters on CPUs.
 

Leonidas

Member
You've been saying this and yet we still have no 10nm desktop CPU release date in sight.

I'm not talking about 10nm, I'm talking about 10th Gen. HT is on all the CPUs. 25-30% extra multithreading performance across the board.

ahh... its you again.

You can't refute facts. Zen2 looked good against 9th gen because most Intel CPUs didn't have HT. In early 2020 all of them do, 25-30% increase to multi-thread scores.
 
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zen3 is almost a year away. 10th Gen Intel launch is eminent. Intel will still have the gaming CPU crown (the only thing that matters for a PC gamer like me) for most if not all of 2020.
What crown you talking about? x game runs on intel at 180fps and on the AMD counterpart at 172fps. Intel pars cost more then the AMD equivalent and you really can justify spending more money just to have a few more frames?
I thought hardware fanboyism doesn't exist in 2019. Let me remind you, both are multi billion dollar companies that don't care about you. Once you realize that, the only thing you should worry about is performance per dollar, IE gaming at desired framerate as cheaply as possible.
 

Leonidas

Member
What crown you talking about? x game runs on intel at 180fps and on the AMD counterpart at 172fps. Intel pars cost more then the AMD equivalent and you really can justify spending more money just to have a few more frames?
I thought hardware fanboyism doesn't exist in 2019. Let me remind you, both are multi billion dollar companies that don't care about you. Once you realize that, the only thing you should worry about is performance per dollar, IE gaming at desired framerate as cheaply as possible.

Wanting the best performance makes you a fanboy these days? Interesting...

But I can refute you.

Everything I posted in this thread is a fact. You are refuting facts if you refute me in this thread...
 

JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
What crown you talking about? x game runs on intel at 180fps and on the AMD counterpart at 172fps. Intel pars cost more then the AMD equivalent and you really can justify spending more money just to have a few more frames?
I thought hardware fanboyism doesn't exist in 2019. Let me remind you, both are multi billion dollar companies that don't care about you. Once you realize that, the only thing you should worry about is performance per dollar, IE gaming at desired framerate as cheaply as possible.
Leonidas has an interesting desire to downplay everything AMD does.

Intel is by no means dead and do have some cards to play, but what they have done this year is an abomination. The 10900X was absolute trash in terms of price/performance.
Intel badly needs another 2600K.

Leonidas is technically correct that the best pure gaming CPU is 9900K, but its still a terrible value when compared to the 3700X (and now 3800X has been seeing some nice discounts). The performance lost from CPU performance is more than made up for by the extra $100+ that can go towards a better GPU.

Also, something Intel has done that hasn't gotten them near enough heat is the fact that they are now taking all the best binned 9900K CPUs adding $50+ to the cost and selling them as special edition CPUs 9900KS.

Anyone who buys a 9900K is not going to get near the overclockability that prior KS 9900Ks had.
 

Leonidas

Member
Leonidas has an interesting desire to downplay everything AMD does.

I don't wish to downplay anything AMD has done, I wish they had better performance. You should know this by now. I value the best performance CPU. And for GPU I value the best performance + next-gen features, especially now since next-gen is less than a year away.

AMD doesn't lead in either area. Maybe they will with Zen3 and RDNA2, that is definitely a possibility but those things aren't releasing any time soon.

Leonidas is technically correct that the best pure gaming CPU is 9900K, but its still a terrible value when compared to the 3700x

Anything over 3600 is a terrible gaming value from AMD (~95% the performance of 3900x at less than half the price).

Intel vastly improves their gaming value with 10th gen. i5 10th Gen will perform better than Ryzen 9 3900x "gaming" CPU.
 
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JohnnyFootball

GerAlt-Right. Ciriously.
Anything over 3600 is a terrible gaming value from AMD (~95% the performance of 3900x at less than half the price). Intel vastly improves their gaming value with 10th gen. i5 10th Gen will perform better than Ryzen 9 3900x.

When the i5 10600K launches soon it will be a better value than any Zen2 CPU priced $250 or more.
Do you have any benchmarks to back this up or are you just pulling these numbers out of your ass? I certainly haven't seen anything from Intel, but then again I'll pay more attention once they actually release a 10nm (or less) CPU.
 
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Leonidas

Member
Do you have any benchmarks to back this up or are you just pulling these numbers out of your ass? I certainly haven't seen anything from Intel, but then again I'll pay more attention once they actually release a 10nm (or less) CPU.

i5 10600K has higher clocks than 8700K, it will be a faster CPU than the 8700K, not rocket science... 8700K is already faster than the $500 3900x in gaming.

i5 10600K in performance terms is essentially a higher clocked 8700K. i5 10600K is faster than 3900x in gaming.

We'll see the actual benchmarks early next year, but this is about the easiest it gets when it comes to "pulling numbers out of ones ass".
 
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i5 10600K has higher clocks than 8700K, it will be a faster CPU than the 8700K, not rocket science... 8700K is already faster than the $500 3900x in gaming.

i5 10600K in performance terms is essentially a higher clocked 8700K. i5 10600K is faster than 3900x in gaming.

We'll see the actual benchmarks early next year, but this is about the easiest it gets when it comes to "pulling numbers out of ones ass".
6 core without hyperthreading already experiences frame stuttering in modern games targeting jaguar 8 core. Now that we have true 8 core consoles coming up with decent performance even 6 core with hyperthreading might experience stuttering.
 

Fake

Member
Your interpretation is flawed. I simply want the best gaming performance. AMD simply doesn't have the best gaming performance.
If you wish AMD to be better I 100% sure will not be done by downplaying AMD in every news thread. Send them an email, answer #AMD on twitter, facebook, etc... www.amd.com have tools to send feedback, of course, if you really wish what you saying.
 

DESTROYA

Member
I’ll believe when I see it
On the box of my 3700x it says 3600/4600. It's not even close to those clocks. It can't go further then 4,2.
So I advise anyone interested in the 4xxx series, to wait for reviews after launch.
Exactly , most 3000 series can’t boost to promised speeds in most cases.
Where I want to see AMD really push into is the mobile laptop market, we’ve seen some AMD CPU and nVidia GPU combos in laptops but the current 3750H top mobile AMD CPU falls short even from the intel i5 9300H.
 

Shin

Banned
On the box of my 3700x it says 3600/4600. It's not even close to those clocks. It can't go further then 4,2.
So I advise anyone interested in the 4xxx series, to wait for reviews after launch.
They released a fix for that within a week or two after that became news, did you update?
 

Xdrive05

Member
I will have to go for AMD as well but will i be able to use my 212 Evo cooler?

You have to get a conversion kit (basically a cross bar iirc), which isn't too expensive - $15 or something on Amazon. I had to get one for my Tomahawk B450 for my 2600 build. FWIW my vanilla 2600 does 4.1 all day stress testing with great temps with the 212 evo I've been rocking for many years now.
 

PhoenixTank

Member
eh, ryzen 3000 series is a big leap over first generation.
Oh, I'm well aware. Just pre-emptively advising caution.

On the box of my 3700x it says 3600/4600. It's not even close to those clocks. It can't go further then 4,2.
So I advise anyone interested in the 4xxx series, to wait for reviews after launch.
3.6 GHz base, 4.4GHz single core short term boost, but your point stands.

You mean a bios update? I see that f50 bios is available for my board. I do have a pre agesa bios.
Does it actually fix anything?
Not lifechanging boosts, but yes. Worth a go if/when you have the time.
 

FireFly

Member
i5 10600K has higher clocks than 8700K, it will be a faster CPU than the 8700K, not rocket science... 8700K is already faster than the $500 3900x in gaming.

i5 10600K in performance terms is essentially a higher clocked 8700K. i5 10600K is faster than 3900x in gaming.

We'll see the actual benchmarks early next year, but this is about the easiest it gets when it comes to "pulling numbers out of ones ass".
Right, but this thread is about the Ryzen 4000 series, not the Ryzen 3000 series. The 8700K, which already has hyperthreading enabled, is 7.1% faster than the 3700X at 720p. So if the 4700X is 20% faster, it would be well ahead.

 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Right, but this thread is about the Ryzen 4000 series, not the Ryzen 3000 series. The 8700K, which already has hyperthreading enabled, is 7.1% faster than the 3700X at 720p. So if the 4700X is 20% faster, it would be well ahead.


Another thing that we may not be taking into account is that games will likely rely more and more on multiple cores and core count is something AMD is excelling at, not to even mention the price performance ratio (which is important and getting them many design wins and an Intel which is now saying that marketshare lead is not what matters the most to them anymore... :rolleyes:).
 

Leonidas

Member
Right, but this thread is about the Ryzen 4000 series, not the Ryzen 3000 series.

Right, but the post I was responding to and the one you quoted was about the 3000 series, not the 4000 series.

The 8700K, which already has hyperthreading enabled, is 7.1% faster than the 3700X. So if the 4700X is 20% faster, it would be well ahead.

Up to 20% quoted in some random applications is not even close to meaning 20% faster on average in gaming. Zen3 gaming performance speculation is futile at this point.
 
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CrisPy2019

Member
I don't understand this Intel Elitism here.

If I want more performance I would be dumb to buy a cpu that is double the price for 5% more performance.

I would invest that into a better GPU. And if I already have the best GPU possible. Faster ram or I would go for better cooling to OC everything.

And if I already have all of that I would buy the next best GPU that comes around. By buying a $500 dollar cpu instead of a $1000 cpu I already have the next $500 GPU basically for free.
Or I would go for a better display. Makes much more sense than having 5%more fps.

There is a reason why most people upgrade their GPU more than they upgrade their cpus.

And when it comes to 4k 8k gaming etc. GPUs are bottlenecking anyway.

And when I'm competitive I'd much rather practice than waste my time arguing about 5% on the internet with strangers. Therefore noone here being elitist actually has any use for the 5% anyway.
 
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FireFly

Member
Up to 20% quoted in some random applications is not even close to meaning 20% faster on average in gaming. Zen3 gaming performance speculation is futile at this point.
From my intepretation of the article, 20% was suggested as the upper end of the average performance increase we can expect.

But actually if AMD boost gaming performance by more than 13%, it should be enough to beat the i9 9900KS. I think that kind of performance improvement would be in line with past performance improvements. In fact, even a 10% improvement would be enough to beat out the 9900K by a few percent.
 
Wow if true this will make Intel totally irrelevant for gamers and all others.

At least until intel goes to 7nm in '21 or whenever its going to happen.
 

10000

Banned
I'm buying zen 2 mobile in 2020, will build a new rig on 2021, so I hope they maintain this lead over Intel on zen 4 because I hate monopoly so much
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
I don't understand this Intel Elitism here.

If I want more performance I would be dumb to buy a cpu that is double the price for 5% more performance.

I would invest that into a better GPU. And if I already have the best GPU possible. Faster ram or I would go for better cooling to OC everything.

And if I already have all of that I would buy the next best GPU that comes around. By buying a $500 dollar cpu instead of a $1000 cpu I already have the next $500 GPU basically for free.
Or I would go for a better display. Makes much more sense than having 5%more fps.

There is a reason why most people upgrade their GPU more than they upgrade their cpus.

And when it comes to 4k 8k gaming etc. GPUs are bottlenecking anyway.

And when I'm competitive I'd much rather practice than waste my time arguing about 5% on the internet with strangers. Therefore noone here being elitist actually has any use for the 5% anyway.

Thank you 🙏! Also, with the new consoles raising the bar yet again and game engines, even Unity, getting more and more use of multi core setups the advantage Ryzen has will flex more and more too.
 

Larogue

Member
Meanwhile at intel HQ
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