Support NeoGAF

[Kenpachii]

I don't understand this Intel Elitism here.

If I want more performance I would be dumb to buy a cpu that is double the price for 5% more performance.

I would invest that into a better GPU. And if I already have the best GPU possible. Faster ram or I would go for better cooling to OC everything.

And if I already have all of that I would buy the next best GPU that comes around. By buying a $500 dollar cpu instead of a $1000 cpu I already have the next $500 GPU basically for free.
Or I would go for a better display. Makes much more sense than having 5%more fps.

There is a reason why most people upgrade their GPU more than they upgrade their cpus.

And when it comes to 4k 8k gaming etc. GPUs are bottlenecking anyway.

And when I'm competitive I'd much rather practice than waste my time arguing about 5% on the internet with strangers. Therefore noone here being elitist actually has any use for the 5% anyway.

I disagree for two reasons

1) Lots of games are CPU bound and u will never get rid of it until u can upgrade that cpu. and upgrading a cpu with only 20% more performance is kinda useless. I upgrade my cpu when it gives me 3x the performance at least.

2) The reason why most people upgrade there ram / gpu / ssd is because they are easily replaceable without much hassle while CPU that's not the case.

Upgrading a cpu mostly involves what makes it expensive, annoying and something people don't want to bother with.

-) buy a new motherboard ( rebuild your pc )
-) buy new memory
-) buy a new cpu.
-) have to reinstall windows which could be seen as a major reason to not want to ever upgrade really. something that prevents me mostly from upgrading my CPU or motherboard at any rate.
-) and these days buy a new nvme to optimize performance to get maximum out of your motherboard where u put your windows on as u don't want to deal with it in the future anymore.

It's a lot of money and a lot of effort.

Then another big issue is that CPU generations are going out of date after a certain time. I bought a 9900k, but i bet in 5 years from now that whole series of cpu's will not be sold anymore which if you bought a lower model, i will not be able to upgrade anymore or upgrading towards available 9900k's are going to be super expensive. the only other option is going to be second handed mode and yea that's just a mine field on its own.

And before we start but ryzen. Ryzen is great. I absolutely like there concept sadly there execution isn't that great at the end or much functional for me personally and probably most of the pc gamers.

Ryzen just isn't fixing the issue when u upgrade over a longer period of time. There is no indication or knowledge upfront of your old motherboard will actual support those new cpu's. mate of mine had to rebuy a new motherboard because his first gen ryzen motherboard didn't ended up liking that 3900x even remotely. Same for the memory.
Then when u realize that the first gen ryzen is only 2 years old with the last gen official supported ryzen chips already upcoming. Most people probably won't be upgrading there CPU's for 5-6 years at least these days. which even ryzen won't make much sense in.

( ps the only reason he upgraded his 1000 series ryzen by the way was because the cpu series was kinda shit already from day one ).

if i had 1000 bucks to spend and have a 3 year old gpu. I would spend it all on the CPU solution and sit a year or so longer on with a more outdated gpu, instead of buying mid level products that once u upgrade one of them the bottleneck is noticable.

Ryzen 4000 rumors: Allegedly can offer an up-to 20 percent extra perf over Ryzen 3000

New sources report further performance gains with Ryzen 4000 - there is talk of 17 percent more IPC and 100 to 200 MHz higher clock frequencies....

www.guru3d.com

If this is true; AMD is about to take the gamer advantage which is Intels last stronghold.

That's some good stuff right there. If that's 17% more performance it would kill off intel lineup completely. That is if they can deliver on it.

 

[longdi]

Ryzen 3000 is pretty damn energy efficient at its given clocks.
See my findings here.

Zen2 ECO 8C/16T 4.38Ghz 46W 38(C)

Eco mode is just a bios setting where you can lock down any zen2 cpu into a low power mode! Imagine a year later, matured 7nm, Sony could drop the HT, lock the boost to 4Ghz. PS5 cpu can run 30w? Ps4 pro has 310w. Which means Sony could dedicate 250w to the GPU. Sucks that Sony may not have...

www.neogaf.com

 

[JohnnyFootball]

If i had 1000 bucks to spend and have a 3 year old gpu. I would spend it all on the CPU solution and sit a year or so longer on with a more outdated gpu, instead of buying mid level products that once u upgrade one of them the bottleneck is noticable.

True, but there is absolutely no reason to consider a 14nm Intel CPU. They are dead ends as far as upgrades are concerned. If somebody is looking to upgrade, I'd not hesitate to recommend Ryzen 3000, but I'd also say if they have waited this long to might as well wait and see what Ryzen 4000 delivers. I expect that my X570 will be compatible, but AMD has made no promises.

 

[Pejo]

Slightly off topic, but does the 4000 series still use the socket AM4?

 

[GreatnessRD]

Slightly off topic, but does the 4000 series still use the socket AM4?

Yes, this is supposed to be the last AM4 socket. The 4000 series is also suppose to have X670 motherboards, too.

 

[diffusionx]

Ryzen just isn't fixing the issue when u upgrade over a longer period of time. There is no indication or knowledge upfront of your old motherboard will actual support those new cpu's. mate of mine had to rebuy a new motherboard because his first gen ryzen motherboard didn't ended up liking that 3900x even remotely. Same for the memory.
Then when u realize that the first gen ryzen is only 2 years old with the last gen official supported ryzen chips already upcoming. Most people probably won't be upgrading there CPU's for 5-6 years at least these days. which even ryzen won't make much sense in.

I bought a Ryzen X370 with a 1600 and put a 3700X in there this year. I don't know what your friend's issue was but new Zen chips work fine with those old motherboards. I am actually very happy with the way AMD has supported those older chipsets and I was able to get a nice speed bump at a pretty reasonable cost and a quick install.

What is the problem with buying a brand new motherboard after five years, exactly? That is a long time.

 

[Iorv3th]

These aren't supposed to be out for desktop until fall 2020 right?

I'm wanting to upgrade soon but might wait for next set of chips.

 

[PhoenixTank]

These aren't supposed to be out for desktop until fall 2020 right?

I'm wanting to upgrade soon but might wait for next set of chips.

CES is a week away. Wait for news there, IMHO. Very little concrete info right now.

 

[marquimvfs]

I bought a Ryzen X370 with a 1600 and put a 3700X in there this year. I don't know what your friend's issue was but new Zen chips work fine with those old motherboards. I am actually very happy with the way AMD has supported those older chipsets and I was able to get a nice speed bump at a pretty reasonable cost and a quick install.

What is the problem with buying a brand new motherboard after five years, exactly? That is a long time.

Maybe it's a power issue. Some cheap motherboards don't have a vrm that is capable of running a ryzen 9. Beside that, the compatibility is pretty good indeed.

 

[Marlenus]

Fingers crossed, but take with a bucket of salt. So many pre-launch rumours for 3000 series were wrong.

The IPC rumours were true. Clocks and product stack were miles off.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

The IPC rumours were true. Clocks and product stack were miles off.

AdoredTV was to blame for a large part of it.

He posted this and while the naming scheme wasn't too far off, the prices and clock speeds most definitely were.

 

[kraspkibble]

awesome! i really wish AMD had worked out for me. hopefully they will still be kicking Intel's ass by the time this 9900K starts struggling.

anyway, i'm not sure i'd be buying a 4000 series. it's likely the last release with AM4 chipset, DDR4, + PCIE 4.0. might as well just wait another year for Zen 4 and get "AM5", DDR5 + PCIE 5.0. well i suppose it's likely AMD will keep AM5 on DDR4 and use DDR5 on Threadripper. 2021 might be a bit too early but definitely would expect DDR5 on both AM5 + TR by 2022.

 

[JohnnyFootball]

awesome! i really wish AMD had worked out for me. hopefully they will still be kicking Intel's ass by the time this 9900K starts struggling.

anyway, i'm not sure i'd be buying a 4000 series. it's likely the last release with AM4 chipset, DDR4, + PCIE 4.0. might as well just wait another year for Zen 4 and get "AM5", DDR5 + PCIE 5.0. well i suppose it's likely AMD will keep AM5 on DDR4 and use DDR5 on Threadripper. 2021 might be a bit too early but definitely would expect DDR5 on both AM5 + TR by 2022.

Right now, I have 3900X and am somewhat regretting it because it is absolute overkill for me.

I am considering trading it in for an 8-core/16 thread 4000 series if I don't lose money and there are IPC/clockspeed improvements in like the 4800X.

If I could pull it off without losing money. I'd happily trade my 3900X/2080 Ti for a 4800X/3080 Super if the 3080 Super was on par performance wise and featured full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 support.

But probably not.

 

[Marlenus]

AdoredTV was to blame for a large part of it.

He posted this and while the naming scheme wasn't too far off, the prices and clock speeds most definitely were.

Funnily enough I can see something like that being the Ryzen 4k product stack. Prices are wrong (still think 16c Ryzen 4k will be $750) and clocks are probably wrong although maybe there will be one SKU with a 5Ghz single core boost if the Milan +200Mhz over Rome transfers to consumer products.

 

[SantaC]

These aren't supposed to be out for desktop until fall 2020 right?

I'm wanting to upgrade soon but might wait for next set of chips.

AMD said that theyre on a 12-18 month schedule.

Ryzen 3000 came out in july. You do the math.

 

[Dontero]

i am hoping 4600 will be nicely priced

 

[CrisPy2019]

I disagree for two reasons

1) Lots of games are CPU bound and u will never get rid of it until u can upgrade that cpu. and upgrading a cpu with only 20% more performance is kinda useless. I upgrade my cpu when it gives me 3x the performance at least.

2) The reason why most people upgrade there ram / gpu / ssd is because they are easily replaceable without much hassle while CPU that's not the case.

Upgrading a cpu mostly involves what makes it expensive, annoying and something people don't want to bother with.

-) buy a new motherboard ( rebuild your pc )
-) buy new memory
-) buy a new cpu.
-) have to reinstall windows which could be seen as a major reason to not want to ever upgrade really. something that prevents me mostly from upgrading my CPU or motherboard at any rate.
-) and these days buy a new nvme to optimize performance to get maximum out of your motherboard where u put your windows on as u don't want to deal with it in the future anymore.

It's a lot of money and a lot of effort.

Then another big issue is that CPU generations are going out of date after a certain time. I bought a 9900k, but i bet in 5 years from now that whole series of cpu's will not be sold anymore which if you bought a lower model, i will not be able to upgrade anymore or upgrading towards available 9900k's are going to be super expensive. the only other option is going to be second handed mode and yea that's just a mine field on its own.

And before we start but ryzen. Ryzen is great. I absolutely like there concept sadly there execution isn't that great at the end or much functional for me personally and probably most of the pc gamers.

Ryzen just isn't fixing the issue when u upgrade over a longer period of time. There is no indication or knowledge upfront of your old motherboard will actual support those new cpu's. mate of mine had to rebuy a new motherboard because his first gen ryzen motherboard didn't ended up liking that 3900x even remotely. Same for the memory.
Then when u realize that the first gen ryzen is only 2 years old with the last gen official supported ryzen chips already upcoming. Most people probably won't be upgrading there CPU's for 5-6 years at least these days. which even ryzen won't make much sense in.

( ps the only reason he upgraded his 1000 series ryzen by the way was because the cpu series was kinda shit already from day one ).

if i had 1000 bucks to spend and have a 3 year old gpu. I would spend it all on the CPU solution and sit a year or so longer on with a more outdated gpu, instead of buying mid level products that once u upgrade one of them the bottleneck is noticable.



That's some good stuff right there. If that's 17% more performance it would kill off intel lineup completely. That is if they can deliver on it.

I don't get what you are saying. You disagree with yourself. You upgrade your CPU when it's a 3x benefit? Because 20% does not make sense for you, so you uprade when you have 300% more performance.

I mean 3x better is like 10 years.

So you upgrade the GPU more then. Because I doubt you wait 10 years to upgrade your GPU. See I agree.

And ryzen does fix that upgrade path problem. If your friend buys the cheapest ryzen Mainboard with a 1200 and then wants to upgrade to a higher wattage 3900 his fault for not thinking or forgetting the bios update or cheaping out on a shit Mainboard.

If you know what you do or don't care about aftermarket cooling installing a new cpu takes 5minutes. Unscrew cooler remove cpu add cpu apply thermal paste screw cooler back. And someone that wants the performance does not care about how much time it costs to make the PC faster anyway.