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[Arkeband]

This is why the soldiers interviewed have said they don't think the creator can do a good job with this case. She is guiding the discussion to what she believes is the reason and that he should be given leeway because of it.

From the military's point of view, his reasoning doesn't matter.

Maybe that's a problem. Our military only really answers to itself. In its own self interest, it has its own justice system. And our military is not a bastion of integrity.

We currently operate an indefinite prison/torture site in Guantanamo, we had Abu-Ghraib, we employed PMC's like Blackwater who we have VIDEO EVIDENCE of them killing civilians while in transit (veering off the road to run over pedestrians), and the footage revealed in WikiLeaks' Collateral Murder tapes, where the military not only killed journalists, but they then killed a van full of children sent to recover the bodies, and then ground troops repeatedly ran over the bodies, while the helicopter pilots made glib commentary. We wouldn't have known about this unless it was leaked. This was to remain [redacted].
It was recently found out that we have been paying for middle-eastern military leaders' male child sex slaves.
And most recently, we bombed an MSF hospital for over half an hour while survivors were frantically contacting our military telling them to stop - the bombings did not immediately stop. Our military has committed atrocities, but we always find some way to justify them, or shift blame to the newest boogeyman.

We basically condition our soldiers to behave in inhuman ways for the sake of "the mission", and we expect them to somehow retain all mental faculties. Despite overwhelming numbers of veterans coming home with PTSD and other debilitatations, as long as they can "keep it together" while out on the field, they're fine - otherwise they get life in prison or the death penalty.

We trust the military because they "keep us safe", yet we haven't actually fought a war that truly threatened our soil in decades. Our worship of our war heroes has invaded every facet of American life, from millions doled out to sports events to increase recruitment, to the pamphlets handed out outside of high school lunchrooms. Get them early, get them young, and they'll be loyal to you. Maybe this is inherently wrong, and maybe they're wrong in Bowe Bergdahl's case.

 

[SummitAve]

What's the mystery behind this one? Why he was a fuckboy and deserted?

Who he is, why he did it, what spending 5 years with the Taliban is like, what were the consequences, details surrounding the trade, how the president got around congress ect.... Just a few things off the top of my head. I don't know how you can consider his perspective and not find it interesting.

Edit: poster above nailed it.

 

[Haunted Tank]

Spoiler

So, Jason Bourne, huh?

 

[Briarios]

I think this one is going to drop with a thud. Per the soldiers in his unit that they interviewed, they are convinced that Serial can't look into this thing for the facts behind it without layering in their own "We hate the war and this is why" bias.

This isn't a true crime type of drama, and there aren't facts and nuance to figure out like the first one. This is a fairly straight forward case in which he left his base and the reasons behind why he did it are fairly irrelevant from the military's point of view. His departure put the lives of way more soldiers at risk than the stuff that he was claiming to try and fix. The search for him was massive.

How about you actually listen to the podcast before deciding you already know they dont have relevant information, because you have no idea of the focus yet. No one does. But, I despise people that feel like they know everything and there is nothing more to learn ... That's the whole problem with the US in a nutshell. People believe the first thing they're told and refuse to reexamine their beliefs for any reason. Immigration, healthcare, climate change -- people dig in, decide they know everything, and stop listening.

I hate it.

 

[Wreav]

Very interesting, I hadn't followed the case at all.

Despite his grand intention of getting a meeting with a higher up/general, you really do get the sense that this desertion was more about him living up to the superhero image he saw himself in, maybe to the point of not believing that he'd actually be punished, and instead get a hero's welcome for whistleblowing. Eager to see where this goes.

His explanation of being in the pitch black basement, not able to see his hands, and slowly losing a grip on what it was to be human was haunting. I imagine that after a stint in a shitsville little outpost like he was at, your mind begins to play tricks on you, and he very may have well thought that desertion was his only remaining option.

 

[theepicoftyler]

Very interesting, I hadn't followed the case at all.

Despite his grand intention of getting a meeting with a higher up/general, you really do get the sense that this desertion was more about him living up to the superhero image he saw himself in, maybe to the point of not believing that he'd actually be punished, and instead get a hero's welcome for whistleblowing. Eager to see where this goes.

Yeah, I haven't followed it much either, but I feel like the hero fantasy was a much bigger motivator. The part about demonstrating the dangerous incompetence of his superiors seems like a "Oh shit, what I did was bad" rationalization.

 

[studyguy]

Oh cool. Lets do this.

 

[JoeyJungle]

She isn't.


That teaser for the next episode...

?? Yes she is

 

[Futureman]

I don't know why people think Serial has to be some murder mystery type show.

Serial tells one story—a true story—over the course of a season. Each season, we follow a plot and characters wherever they take us. We won’t know what happens at the end until we get there, not long before you get there with us. Each week we bring you the next chapter in the story, so it's important to listen to the episodes in order.

All it says is the podcast tells a story following the plot and characters.

this one sounds interesting. So this is the first time Bowe has talked about his experience?

 

[gamechanger87]

How about you actually listen to the podcast before deciding you already know they dont have relevant information, because you have no idea of the focus yet. No one does. But, I despise people that feel like they know everything and there is nothing more to learn ... That's the whole problem with the US in a nutshell. People believe the first thing they're told and refuse to reexamine their beliefs for any reason. Immigration, healthcare, climate change -- people dig in, decide they know everything, and stop listening.

I hate it.

I mean, they have the relevant information. Any additional information regarding the military's case they would not have because it is in the military's possession. His fucking defense attorney doesn't even have it which is why he wrote a long opinion which is publicly available.

http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-03-27/bergdahl-lawyer-says-he-was-awol-not-a-deserter

http://go.bloomberg.com/assets/content/uploads/sites/2/Bergdahl-03252015-Press-Statement.pdf

His lawyer concedes that he left, but is arguing that it should be AWOL because he intended to return and not pure desertion. He and his attorney are arguing that he only went AWOL as he intended to return and this wasn't pure desertion. The military's report hedges its bets on the AWOL versus desertion distinction.

Hell, his defense attorney doesn't deny that he wrote emails to his parents containing anger and resentment with the entire war.

Why don't you get off your high horse and read the articles available to understand the case rather than just listen to a podcast? I'm not just making shit up, I've actually looked into this topic previously.

 

[Futureman]

I mean what more is there to say besides the story is very interesting and it should be a compelling podcast?

I think you are basing your distaste off the idea that Serial should be about some mystery/thing that needs to be solved which isn't correct.

 

[gamechanger87]

I don't know why people think Serial has to be some murder mystery type show.



All it says is the podcast tells a story following the plot and characters.

this one sounds interesting. So this is the first time Bowe has talked about his experience?

He has never publicly talked about it, but things have been released through his attorney. The two pages he wrote on his captivity sound like hell on earth and harken back to VietCong PoW stories.

 

[sometimes i game]

Yeah I think this is an unfair criticism leveled at Serial-they didn't set out to "Solve" a mystery, that's just what some listeners wanted. They presented the facts and timeline and interviews, just enough to make you say "this is fucked up."

Not exactly, Sarah says in the first episode or two ~"if you want to solve this with me nows the time to start paying attention" and in the final episode she comments on how in the beginning, solving this seemed so attainable, she just had to look over the facts, get a hold of some people and figure out who was lying.

It was "let's solve this!" until it was apparent that she couldn't speak definitively / report speculation, then it became "here are some rumors i found! here's a recap of what we know!"

It's a great piece of media, it just doesn't know what it wants to be.

 

[Emarv]

I don't know why people think Serial has to be some murder mystery type show.

All it says is the podcast tells a story following the plot and characters.

this one sounds interesting. So this is the first time Bowe has talked about his experience?

I don't think it has to be anything. It can be whatever NPR wants. For my money, I just wish it was still about small town true-crime. I consumed a lot of that growing up and really find it fascinating to learn about a small-community and how it works and who is in it and how something tore it all apart.

A high-profile case like Bergdahl that many already have highly passionate, political views on is just less interesting to me. It's maybe a more interesting national buzz story with greater fallout, but what I liked about Season 1 was that it was basically a high-quality version of Dateline NBC.

Not something that will probably be made into a national documentary. But that's just me. I hope it's good.

 

[Futureman]

It's a great piece of media, it just doesn't know what it wants to be.

part of the reason for that is they never knew it would explode with such popularity.

 

[diffusionx]

Not exactly, Sarah says in the first episode or two ~"if you want to solve this with me nows the time to start paying attention" and in the final episode she comments on how in the beginning, solving this seemed so attainable, she just had to look over the facts, get a hold of some people and figure out who was lying.

It was "let's solve this!" until it was apparent that she couldn't speak definitively / report speculation, then it became "here are some rumors i found! here's a recap of what we know!"

It's a great piece of media, it just doesn't know what it wants to be.

It just wants to be a great piece of media. I'm not sure if Koenig truly wanted to definitively solve the case, maybe she did, but that's because she's not experienced in that world, she like most of us think of the criminal justice system in black and white, like an episode of Law & Order, where the truth is out there it just needs to be found. I think she realized this a lot earlier than the show lets on though, because it became obvious to me that they structured the episodes to really play with the audience and tell a story, which is what TAL does and this is what made it a great piece of media. The problem is that, by the end, people were still thinking about it like a Law & Order episode, as evidenced by the fact that people were desperately clinging onto this idea that the last episode would reveal everything, like Sayed confessing or Jay confessing or some shit. The real world isn't that neat.

 

[Moose_Wrangler-]

I'm excited to give this a listen. My girlfriend grew up in his hometown. When we went to visit a couple years ago I remember asking her why there were ribbons hung all over town and who this "Bring home Bowe" guy was that was on banners and signs everywhere. From what shes stated he was super weird when she was in highschool and everyone was really surprised when he joined the military.

 

[komplanen]

This is going to be so amazing!

 

[Dalek]

Not exactly, Sarah says in the first episode or two ~"if you want to solve this with me nows the time to start paying attention" and in the final episode she comments on how in the beginning, solving this seemed so attainable, she just had to look over the facts, get a hold of some people and figure out who was lying.

It was "let's solve this!" until it was apparent that she couldn't speak definitively / report speculation, then it became "here are some rumors i found! here's a recap of what we know!"

It's a great piece of media, it just doesn't know what it wants to be.

Here's the transcripts for Episodes 1 and 2 of serial:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tf9zC1atDaClrBt2waYpMQP8UHB034FdxzvhajOFw2A/edit

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1cy0p5YZ98oxeIJnkRY5gyu0lGfGv7uz2s8JhG72RPS4/edit

Go ahead and do a "Find" on those pages and search for "solve" and tell me what you find.

 

[ryseing]

Personally, I'm not familiar with this case, so I'm fine with the Serial crew going in this direction.

Have no doubt it'll be as high quality as the majority of S1 was.

 

[Dalek]

Personally, I'm not familiar with this case, so I'm fine with the Serial crew going in this direction.

Have no doubt it'll be as high quality as the majority of S1 was.

I'm not familar with it either, but so far I'm riveted.

 

[ReAxion]

already can't wait for the next one.

 

[jtb]

It just wants to be a great piece of media. I'm not sure if Koenig truly wanted to definitively solve the case, maybe she did, but that's because she's not experienced in that world, she like most of us think of the criminal justice system in black and white, like an episode of Law & Order, where the truth is out there it just needs to be found. I think she realized this a lot earlier than the show lets on though, because it became obvious to me that they structured the episodes to really play with the audience and tell a story, which is what TAL does and this is what made it a great piece of media. The problem is that, by the end, people were still thinking about it like a Law & Order episode, as evidenced by the fact that people were desperately clinging onto this idea that the last episode would reveal everything, like Sayed confessing or Jay confessing or some shit. The real world isn't that neat.

I'd be shocked if she didn't expect it to be messy as hell. I mean, she was a crime (?) reporter for the Baltimore Sun for a long time before This American Life (that's how she came into contact with the story in the first place, iirc). At the end of the day, I think it wants to be responsible journalism, and there's no way you could possibly come to any kind of definitive conclusion with all the holes in the evidence and still be responsible by the end of S1 imo. There's no shame in saying "We just don't know" at the end of an investigation, that doesn't mean that the investigation wasn't a worthwhile endeavor.

 

[Dalek]

Spoiler

Sarah: That's me-calling the Taliban.

O_O

The hour flew by!!!!!!!

 

[ReAxion]

Spoiler

Sarah: That's me-calling the Taliban.

O_O

The hour flew by!!!!!!!

Fuckin' same.

(and it was only 44:00)

 

[Dalek]

Fuckin' same.

(and it was only 44:00)

Ah ok-I had it playing on a speaker while I was cooking breakfast and cleaning up. I'll relisten to it this weekend.

Here's the website that has the video described of his "turnover" in the start of the episode:
https://serialpodcast.org/season-two/maps

And also that flyover map.

 

[Soybean]

This isn't NPR, FYI. It's made by Chicago Public Media and distributed by PRX.

 

[DietRob]

I figured a season 2 of Serial would have started with a bit more fanfare than this. I really enjoyed the first one but if it wasn't for this thread I would have no idea that a new one started today.

Going to listen to ep1 sometime today.

 

[internetwolf]

this guy LEFT his post!?

It's going to be hard to have as much sympathy here as I had for adnan

 

[Dalek]

this guy LEFT his post!?

It's going to be hard to have as much sympathy here as I had for adnan

Reddit is already talking about this episode, too.

https://www.reddit.com/r/serialpodcast/comments/3w7nbk/season_2_episode_1_dustwun/cxu2cdr

I'm a Marine Corps vet, I was in during his dumb adventure. He screwed over a ton of people across all branches. He cost a lot of people their lives. He's an idiot, of course your command is stupid every command is stupid no matter the branch. You maneuver around them and take care of your people. I will rage listen to this season, this will not be an enjoyable ride for me and many other service members.

 

[aerts1js]

this guy LEFT his post!?

It's going to be hard to have as much sympathy here as I had for adnan

Well, the podcast isn't necessarily trying to get you to sympathize him.

 

[ivysaur12]

My commute only finished halfway through the first episode, but jesus, what an idiot.

 

[Wreav]

this guy LEFT his post!?

It's going to be hard to have as much sympathy here as I had for adnan

He was just going on a run to town for some gin.

 

[internetwolf]

Well, the podcast isn't necessarily trying to get you to sympathize him.

I know I'm just saying it'll be a different experience for me this time around. Not even a bad thing.

 

[aerts1js]

I know I'm just saying it'll be a different experience for me this time around. Not even a bad thing.

Yeah; I agree.

 

[Demoskinos]

I was listening along enjoying myself then it gets to the end and I sat straight up and blurted out "what the fuck?"

That is one hell of a way to end the first episode. Gawd damn.

 

[komplanen]

Good first episode. I'm interested in this story right now despite it revolving around the US Military. Going to be interesting to see how he survives the courts.

 

[Ophelion]

I was listening along enjoying myself then it gets to the end and I sat straight up and blurted out "what the fuck?"

That is one hell of a way to end the first episode. Gawd damn.

It seemed completely audacious. I remember thinking, "Can she really just do that?"

I guess she can.

 

[Demoskinos]

It seemed completely audacious. I remember thinking, "Can she really just do that?"

I guess she can.

Yeah, I mean how the hell does

Spoiler

a civilian just casually get in contact with the taliban like that? That is nuts.

But if this is where we're going with this season already regardless of how Bergdahl comes off it should be an interesting. ride.

 

[Black-Wind]

I'll give it a shot buuuut I don't like the topic at all.

I felt that part of the beauty and appeal to the first season was that is was a strange lil cold case that most of America never heard about and we could look into it together. Did he do it? Was it his shitty friend? Was it some other guy who may have been in the area and has connections to these kinda murders?

This ... is something everyone has heard about and most people have already condemned him in their mind.

 

[Wreav]

Yeah, I mean how the hell does

Spoiler

a civilian just casually get in contact with the taliban like that? That is nuts.

But if this is where we're going with this season already regardless of how Bergdahl comes off it should be an interesting. ride.

I'm always seeing articles about how journalists have a contact with ISIS or the Taliban, so I don't think it's that outlandish.

 

[SyNapSe]

I wonder what the intention was by making it a surprise release? Why wouldn't they want media stories hyping it up pre-release?

 

[Dr.Acula]

After the first season, it's really smart that all the people involved in this season are journalists, millionaire Hollywood people, the US military and

Spoiler

the Taliban

.

I'd like to see people try and stalk and dox the US military like they did with Jay and other people.

P.S.: Brought to you by The X-Files

 

[Afrocious]

It's somewhere in the official Daredevil season 1 thread.



That was the HBO documentary The Jinx.

Thanks!!!

 

[Fuu]

Great first episode. And yeah, that ending. I'm not familiar with this story (I'm not from the US) and I dig the military angle, so it will be a good ride. I don't care that there isn't a mystery or that the main subject of the history isn't sympathetic, so far it's already an interesting story told in an interesting way, which is what I was expecting.

 

[Fuu]

I'll give it a shot buuuut I don't like the topic at all.

I felt that part of the beauty and appeal to the first season was that is was a strange lil cold case that most of America never heard about and we could look into it together. Did he do it? Was it his shitty friend? Was it some other guy who may have been in the area and has connections to these kinda murders?

This ... is something everyone has heard about and most people have already condemned him in their mind.

Didn't that end up becoming sort of a problem with the first season? Random internet users digging and getting obsessed in ways that were less than ideal.

I wouldn't be surprised if they would like to distance themselves from that kind of thing this time by going with a higher profile case.

 

[CDX]

Spoiler

Sarah: That's me-calling the Taliban.

O_O

I know.

I was like she just did what? I didn't know you could do that. And she's so casual about it.

 

[Gigglepoo]

This ... is something everyone has heard about and most people have already condemned him in their mind.

Isn't that partly why it's fascinating? Granted, a lot of people won't change their minds no matter what they hear, but many others will think about the military and soldiers in a new light. As the first season showed, few issues are purely black and white. I expect season two to take us down a similar path.

 

[VanMardigan]

Season 2 is out! Time to make another obviously guilty dude look slightly less guilty!!!

Also, I'm not feeling the intro. I wanted her to stick to the flow of the original:

-Open with a person talking through a recorder
-Same theme music plays
-Have Ira Glass introduce the episode
-Cue Sarah talking


Is that so hard!!!! Instead there is no theme music until 3 minutes in, and then it's a remix?!?!?!? I waited a year for this? lol, I'll still listen to it.

 

[Timeaisis]

Season 2 is out! Time to make another obviously guilty dude look slightly less guilty!!!

Also, I'm not feeling the intro. I wanted her to stick to the flow of the original:

-Open with a person talking through a recorder
-Same theme music plays
-Have Ira Glass introduce the episode
-Cue Sarah talking


Is that so hard!!!! Instead there is no theme music until 3 minutes in, and then it's a remix?!?!?!? I waited a year for this? lol, I'll still listen to it.

Yeah, the remixed theme music is dumb.