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[Violet_0]

I don't get Baskervilles hate.

the story conclusion is pretty bad but the episodes as a whole is one of my favorites, actually. Lots of great little moments. It doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as The Blind Banker, which as well all know is unquestionably the actual worst Sherlock episode

Baskerville is a really fun standalone episode, which is exactly what the show needs more of. No more Moriaty, Magnussen or secret super agent nonsense, please

it kinda breaks my heart watching the montages of Sherlock solving all these mundane cases in seconds (which wasn't funny or clever, btw, just lazy writing) when every single one could be far more interesting than what we got if only they dedicated an entire episode to them

 

[arts&crafts]

For those wondering why Mary was so abruptly written out... I suspect it has a lot to do with her and Freeman splitting up.

They are actors, surely they could act like a couple in a tv show even if they broke up in real life. I heard the main guy in Castle and the main girl in Castle hated each other and there was 8 seasons!

 

[War Peaceman]

They are actors, surely they could act like a couple in a tv show even if they broke up in real life. I heard the main guy in Castle and the main girl in Castle hated each other and there was 8 seasons!

Sure, but due to the nature of the series it is easier to write out Mary. I think she had it coming anyway, just not so suddenly.

 

[arts&crafts]

Sure, but due to the nature of the series it is easier to write out Mary. I think she had it coming anyway, just not so suddenly.

True True, I am okay with her being gone I just feel like now they are going to spend the rest of the season talking about it instead of solving cases

 

[War Peaceman]

True True, I am okay with her being gone I just feel like now they are going to spend the rest of the season talking about it instead of solving cases

Agreed. It would have mad a better season cliffhanger. (Rewrite the episode as well)

 

[Ein Bear]

I suppose the actor's circumstances probably were a factor, but it's worth mentioning that Mary Watson does die in the original stories.

 

[The Jackdog]

They are actors, surely they could act like a couple in a tv show even if they broke up in real life. I heard the main guy in Castle and the main girl in Castle hated each other and there was 8 seasons!

or just write her out better

 

[brandywine]

I just don't like how pouty they've made Watson. In the stories he's always ready with his pistol and

Spoiler

all it took was some brandy and a new case for him to get over the events of The Final Problem.

I suppose the actor's circumstances probably were a factor, but it's worth mentioning that Mary Watson does die in the original stories.

Yeah I mentioned that a couple of days ago and there is even less mention made of it there, it doesn't even really get described.

 

[Siegcram]

well, that explains a lot.

Especially why he as a trained physician just let her die in his arms. Ice cold, Watson.

 

[Enduin]

Mary was insufferable so while the overall episode was rather meh it was great because of that ending. Hopefully they keep the grieving to a minimum, but I doubt it.

Mary was easily the biggest issue I had with the series since her introduction. She really brought things down for me as her presence on screen was always so crumby and the entire subplot with her was such trash.

Great start to 2017.

 

[Jackpot]

Especially why he as a trained physician just let her die in his arms. Ice cold, Watson.

For the first minute of Mary's death speech I thought it was a fake-out due to how little the actress responded to her wound. Every time they moved her or put pressure on it her expression didn't change at all.

 

[Deadly]

They are actors, surely they could act like a couple in a tv show even if they broke up in real life. I heard the main guy in Castle and the main girl in Castle hated each other and there was 8 seasons!

In the casts reaction video to the episode, Amanda Abbington says she "knew from very early on Mary was going to die, they were going to kill her off". Although we don't know if that's when she was casted as Mary or early on in the filming of S4.

Either way I'd be willing to bet it was planned before Martin Freeman and her split.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

I hadn't heard her and Martin split up before this thread, what a fucking bummer. But yeah, this death is part of 100 year old canon, so I'm guessing this is how they had always planned it. I'm guessing John's arc for the season is the inescapable guilt he's now stuck with, and if she died in ep 2 or 3, they'd have no time to really explore those feelings.

I had read somewhere that in past seasons, it's been John who was Sherlock's anchor to people, relationships, and the world in general, and that dynamic would be inverted in series 4, where Sherlock would have to be the one to pull John back from the abyss. Seems like we're set up for just that in the next two weeks.

edit: One other thing I forgot to mention. Was there NO better way for them to block the scene when Mary takes the bullet? It looked SO awkward. Like Norbury fires, Mary looks from Sherlock to Norbury, then jerks in front of him to take the bullet. It just looked so off.

 

[Otnopolit]

For the first minute of Mary's death speech I thought it was a fake-out due to how little the actress responded to her wound. Every time they moved her or put pressure on it her expression didn't change at all.

Yeah, she said in an interview that she loved being able to ham that scene up because it was a death scene. Said it gave her permission to overact!

As for them not attempting to save her, she got shot in the heart, there really wasn't anything that could've been done.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Mary's death is going to be revealed to have been totally faked, right?

 

[Otnopolit]

Mary's death is going to be revealed to have been totally faked, right?

Nah, she's as dead as Moriarity is. The drama of killing her off was too great, she made the show a little stacked in the crime solving department, and she dies in the books so it all fits.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Mary's death is going to be revealed to have been totally faked, right?

Ugh, please god no.

Also, the continual emphasis on "it's never twins" makes me wonder if that's going to apply to Mary instead of/as well as Jim.

 

[brandywine]

Mary's death is going to be revealed to have been totally faked, right?

No. She always dies.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

Ugh, please god no.

Also, the continual emphasis on "it's never twins" makes me wonder if that's going to apply to Mary instead of/as well as Jim.

Yeah, I don't think I can handle that type of fake out.

Something odd I was just thinking about. The Six Thatcher case and the boy in the car being connected is quite the coincidence. It didn't dawn on me during the episode, but there was no reason for those two cases to be intertwined. And yet two peculiar events that so happen to circle Sherlock's life directly impacted on each other. That's pretty sloppy for this show, unless I'm missing something.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

Yeah, I don't think I can handle that type of fake out.

Something odd I was just thinking about. The Six Thatcher case and the boy in the car being connected is quite the coincidence. It didn't dawn on me during the episode, but there was no reason for those two cases to be intertwined. And yet two peculiar events that so happen to circle Sherlock's life directly impacted on each other. That's pretty sloppy for this show, unless I'm missing something.

To say nothing of cars that apparently explode when rear-ended. I was also really surprised they went full-on premonition when Sherlock saw the empty space on their table. I actually had to turn on closed captioning, and then google "by the pricking of my thumbs".

 

[Meier]

I liked the episode. I hope John continues to feel like a real piece of shit due to his texting side piece story too.

 

[Grizzlyjin]

To say nothing of cars that apparently explode when rear-ended. I was also really surprised they went full-on premonition when Sherlock saw the empty space on their table. I actually had to turn on closed captioning, and then google "by the pricking of my thumbs".

It makes me think it was designed. Or the writers don't care anymore. Because the body leads him to the Thatchers. I don't think it would have even been considered a case if Sherlock didn't notice the statue was missing. Someone eventually got murdered, but that murder isn't really a mystery unless you have the knowledge about the previous statues being smashed.

A drunk driver just so happening to hit a car and make it explode is pretty extraordinary. The car containing the hidden body of a student who suddenly died a week ago, even more extraordinary. That family being 1 of 6 people in all of England that have Thatcher statues that could contain a flash drive that leads directly back to Mary...Oh, and there were only 4 of those in existence? It's just way too coincidental. I can't tell if that's a clue in a larger mystery or if the episode was sloppily written. A coincidence that big with no larger design or human hand pushing it goes against everything a Sherlock Holmes story is. That's always the point. It's not twins, or a ghost, or a coincidence.

 

[wetflame]

Jonathan Creeks return was better. still enjoyed it though.

I was a bit put off by how Jonathan

Spoiler

burned a man alive

in that episode. Not really what I expected to see from that show.

 

[tearsintherain]

Did they ever explain why Ajay was after the flash drive? My understanding was that it contained their "past history", so they couldn't betray each other... which would be pretty useless? Even Sherlock wonders why he was after it... and its never answered. I thought maybe Ajay wanted to use it to track down Mary's hiding spots, like that amazing passport hidden in a rock (LOL) but he never actually held it, it went from Sherlock to Mary.

Also do people in England really pronounce Ajay as A-J, instead of the Indian Uh J?

 

[Number45]

Did they ever explain why Ajay was after the flash drive? My understanding was that it contained their "past history", so they couldn't betray each other... which would be pretty useless? Even Sherlock wonders why he was after it... and its never answered. I thought maybe Ajay wanted to use it to track down Mary's hiding spots, like that amazing passport hidden in a rock (LOL) but he never actually held it, it went from Sherlock to Mary.

I got the impression that each stick contained *all* of the information, including their own.

Also do people in England really pronounce Ajay as A-J, instead of the Indian Uh J?

I actually assumed it was AJ rather than Ajay. Not sure how I'd have pronounced it - probably the same but only because there's a well known (less so now) cleaning product here called Ajax that's pronounced "Ayjax".

 

[Cafeman]

Did they ever explain why Ajay was after the flash drive?

My understanding is that AJay hated Mary for betraying him, wanted to kill her, and the flash drive had all her history on it (all of his history too) which he needed to track her down.

 

[Cafeman]

You know , the more I think about this episode , these are my conclusions:

- Mary is truly dead. I can't see any reason to fake this, or possibility that she secretly survived with her husband, a doctor, present. However, the 'go to HELL , Sherlock' means something other than telling him off. More info to be filled in next ep.
- John Watson is not in a sexting text affair with that woman, although perhaps tempted a moment. I think the middle-of-the-night texts were definitely to somebody ELSE. Either Sherlock, or his once-mentioned sister who he doesn't see much.
- the redhead is a red herring. Watching again, she is in front of the next-ep villain's poster. No affair happened. She might be working for the villain. That's all.

 

[The Jackdog]

even if this was a "setup" episode for the rest of the season, idk how you can be happy with getting 1/3 of a show that hasnt been on in 3 years as just setup

 

[Vyse The Legend]

You know , the more I think about this episode , these are my conclusions:

- Mary is truly dead. I can't see any reason to fake this, or possibility that she secretly survived with her husband, a doctor, present. However, the 'go to HELL , Sherlock' means something other than telling him off. More info to be filled in next ep.
- John Watson is not in a sexting text affair with that woman, although perhaps tempted a moment. I think the middle-of-the-night texts were definitely to somebody ELSE. Either Sherlock, or his once-mentioned sister who he doesn't see much.
- the redhead is a red herring. Watching again, she is in front of the next-ep villain's poster. No affair happened. She might be working for the villain. That's all.

That whole "sexting" subplot is definitely a set up for the next episode(s). I mean, Mary's post-mortem message was to "save" John Watson. Someone is clearly targeting him, and the redhead is likely their foot in the door.

 

[bodyofanamerican]

That whole "sexting" subplot is definitely a set up for the next episode(s). I mean, Mary's post-mortem message was to "save" John Watson. Someone is clearly targeting him, and the redhead is likely their foot in the door.

Speaking of which, is John in what seems to be a well/pit in the opening credits new? It is, right?

 

[VanquishUK]

Man what an average episode I hope it gets better. Having three episodes every two years and one of them is to setup the other two episodes is just sad. I was expecting more.

 

[broncobuster]

Not a great episode. I've read theories that this episode was meant to defy expectations of something or anything happening. To that end, it was a resounding success.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Oh and Sherlock getting pardoned to stop Moriarty then everybody but him forgetting Moriarty instantly felt like a Doctor Who cliffhanger brought over by Moffatt.

"Someone's trying to blow up the TARDIS? Sounds important. Oh well. Back to adventuring."

That was easily the worst part about the episode. I mean, the focus on Mary was horrid, but the collective amnesia on Moriarty, plus Sherlock's "I know what he's going to do next!" quickly turning it "Actually, I don't really know shit," really sucked. They completely took the wind out of the Christmas Special's sails.

 

[Eumi]

That was easily the worst part about the episode. I mean, the focus on Mary was horrid, but the collective amnesia on Moriarty, plus Sherlock's "I know what he's going to do next!" quickly turning it "Actually, I don't really know shit," really sucked. They completely took the wind out of the Christmas Special's sails.

Thinking about it that's likely why most people (myself included) are so cold on this ep. Sure, I'm not sure people expected or necessarily even wanted us to jump right into Moriarty but constantly teasing one storyline only to jump focus to another with zero buildup was never going to go over well.

 

[Vyse The Legend]

Thinking about it that's likely why most people (myself included) are so cold on this ep. Sure, I'm not sure people expected or necessarily even wanted us to jump right into Moriarty but constantly teasing one storyline only to jump focus to another with zero buildup was never going to go over well.

Indeed, plus they added insult to injury at the very end of the episode with the "Did You Miss Me?" DVD. It's like they actively wanted the audience to detest Mary.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

It's so dumb. Like if you wanna kill off Mary, okay, but this seemed like the dumbest, laziest way to do it.

I mean hell, just give her a terminal disease and give her one last case to solve with Sherlock, John, and Rosie. At least then you could have 90 minutes of feels and not this Bond-lite crap.

 

[Mascot]

I mean hell, just give her a terminal disease and give her one last case to solve with Sherlock, John, and Rosie. At least then you could have 90 minutes of feels and not this Bond-lite crap.

That sounds even worse than being a teleporting bullet-sponge.

 

[Kinyou]

The whole premise of the AGRA drive was super dumb. Why would you bring that on a mission?

I don't get it either. What's the point of an insurance like that when any betrayal would obviously involve killing the team.

 

[jett]

I forgot they had turned Mary into a supersoldier.

I wish they had forgotten too.

This episode is kind of awful so far. This actress looks so out place in this role, it's laughable.

 

[BTM]

Alright episode. Let's just hope the next 2 step it up a bit.

 

[Chuck]

...What happened to this show?

 

[mcrommert]

I remember when people put up their noses when elementary was announced...now its the only one that's still good

 

[squid]

Didn't realise people had turned on Sherlock so much. I thought season 3 was good, maybe not quite as good as season 2 (and I don't think they'll ever top Reichenbach Fall), but still really good tv, and better than season 1.

As far as Sherlock episodes go, I think this one is decent. The teenager case was pretty interesting, Sherlock and Mycroft are always great to watch together, and there were a few surprises in there. But yeah, the Mary agra stuff wasn't that great. And not looking forward to angry, single-dad Watson as a few others have already mentioned. Thought the old lady being the killer was pretty cool, but didn't really care about (and don't really remember) the details of what and how she did it. Motive was believable though and was cool how that led to her 'surprising' Sherlock.

Looking forward to the next 2 episodes; the new villain and getting into the Moriarty stuff.

 

[matrix-cat]

I still think it's pretty good, for the most part. I liked most of this episode until the ending. While it tends to be up its own arse a bit, Sherlock certainly hasn't shat the bed as hard as, say, Luther did.

Honestly my biggest problem with Sherlock is that they take so long between seasons that I can't remember a single thing that happened when they come back.

 

[BossDarkseid]

Felt it was a poor episode, but with some good bits. Moffat and Gattis do have a habit of doing little plot twists or cliffhangers to be "look at how clever we are" rather than having a good solution.

I have a slightly wild theory that Toby Jones will be the real Moriarty, a mathematics professor, and Andrew Scott was really Richard Brook...but that would be unnecessarily convuluted for the show already.

 

[Skux]

On one hand, there's only so many detective stories you can do before wanting to switch up the formula. British TV tends to do this a lot more often than American TV (which can air a whole 22-episode season of police procedurals with barely any character development).

On the other hand, elaborating on Mary's backstory ended up as one of the times they failed to switch up the formula for the better. The spy thriller stuff isn't a very good fit for Sherlock, and others are right when they say the actress never came across as a trained soldier (which was made plainly clear in the Georgia flashbacks).

Mary's standoff with AJ in Morocco was a completely silly scene. The guy has been bent on revenge for the last 6 years, and then busts into the room only to take cover in an archway to explain his whole motivation - despite seconds later saying he doesn't care if he lives or dies, in which case he should have killed Mary as soon as her saw her. It made no fucking sense.

Mary should have been killed by AJ, or by the old lady at the end (deliberately and not by Mary spontaneously teleporting to sacrifice herself). Her taking the bullet for Sherlock is unsatisfying because it has nothing to do with her past "coming back to get her" and yet the episode was selling us on that exact idea. It does nothing to close her arc and instead is used as a way to contrive some drama between Sherlock and Watson. Just sloppy and unsatisfying.

Edit: Oh shit I had the greatest idea. Mary should have died at the start of the episode and then Sherlock and Watson could have solved her murder and uncovered her secret past.

 

[Mascot]

Edit: Oh shit I had the greatest idea. Mary should have died at the start of the episode and then Sherlock and Watson could have solved her murder and uncovered her secret past.

That would have been much, much better than the disjointed bag of bones that was actually served up.

 

[Ein Bear]

Indeed, plus they added insult to injury at the very end of the episode with the "Did You Miss Me?" DVD. It's like they actively wanted the audience to detest Mary.

That was so dumb. "I thought that would get your attention" - so does she record a new 'in the event of my death' recording every couple of weeks or something, so that she can write whatever's relevant at the time on the front?

 

[munchie64]

I really liked the first half, the little cases were fun. The second half, not so much.

 

[mcrommert]

Felt it was a poor episode, but with some good bits. Moffat and Gattis do have a habit of doing little plot twists or cliffhangers to be "look at how clever we are" rather than having a good solution.

I have a slightly wild theory that Toby Jones will be the real Moriarty, a mathematics professor, and Andrew Scott was really Richard Brook...but that would be unnecessarily convuluted for the show already.

Its the same problem with his doctor who...and one that has driven me crazy

I mean the doctors death and the stupid way he gets out of it is the best example