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[vivftp]

2023 is good to be a rough year for Sony. They are damage controlling big time.

What an unusual comment. 2023 has the potential to be one of their biggest years every, if not THE biggest year ever. This is due to:

1) Games. In terms of first party titles & console exclusives so far for 2023 we know of Spider-Man 2, Stellar Blade, Forspoken, Final Final 16, Horizon Call of the Mountain (no date, but they're practically marketing it as a launch title), and we know 2 unannounced live service games will be launching before the end of this fiscal year at the end of March 2023 (my guess is Helldivers 2 and TLOU MP). Of course there will also be MLB which is already on PS, Xbox and Switch. Given Sony's PC push it stands to reason to that it'll make its way there, and we know Sony San Diego has been hiring for mobile talent, so a mobile MLB The Show seems like it's in the works as well. Then we know that Destiny 2 will have one of its biggest updates ever with Lightfall in February.

Add to that the entire PSVR2 lineup for the entire year. All of this is before we've even gotten their showcase to market the next wave of games after God of War. There's a VERY slim chance that Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth may be in that year as well, but that might be a 2024 title.


2) PSVR2. We know that PSVR2 will have "more than 20 major games at launch" and previews so far have been over the moon at the experience it provides. It's coming early 2023

3) PS5 sales. The PS5 availability has already been picking up and they plan to ship 18 million units this FY, and have to ship ~15 million in the last 3 quarters of this FY to hit that goal. That leads into next FY where Sony has stated they plan for the PS5 to surpass the sales curve of the PS4. That means they have to ship over 23 million PS5's at the very least next FY, which in itself I think may be a record for any PlayStation console. Then we have the recent leak from Tom Henderson saying that they actually plan to ship 30.5 million PS5's next FY, which I think may be a record for any home console in history (someone please correct me).

4) PlayStation Productions. We know that the TLOU HBO series will be out in 2023. We also know that the Gran Turismo movie is set for August 2023. We know that the Twisted Metal TV series has completed filming, so it could very well launch in 2023 as well.


So yes, with 2023 already shaping up to be quite a packed year for their games (again, this is before we've even gotten their showcase), and with the prospect of them breaking Playstation, or even maybe industry records for console sales, how is 2023 gonna be rough?

 

[Stooky]

What has been falsely represented?

Free radio music's is mostly commercial pop music. Where each song is made to chart for a week then it disappears. You want the Cardi B of games? Also artist make most of there money tour. That song on the radio is more like advertisement for you to buy their album and buy tickets to their show.

 

[Sosokrates]

You can't deny that Sony's games have higher budget and production values. They simply are better at the moment

This year, yes because of delays.

from sound design to graphics to mo-cap to gameplay mechanics to scope.

The problem here a lot of what you say subjective. Forbidden west may have the best visuals ive seen but if I dont like other aspects it doesn't matter. Infinite has the best sound this gen imo and I prefer it to forbidden west. Im looking forward to Ragnarok, the story trailer looked excellent I wish that was coming day1 to ps extra.
Sony games are not above everything else in terms of sound, gameplay, scope and the technical sophistication of there visuals, SSm and naughty dog excel at story, attention to detail and polish. Where as most games will have a generic cave or wall, these devs will go the extra mile and add wear and tear, some weeds growing, Maybe some gravetti etc.

Games take time and if ms dont deliver next year with first party then I will have legitimate concern. But bar any disasters they have some great devs and there games will come and should amaze just as much as sonys top brass.

But this is really coming down to a subjective opinions so theres not much more to really discuss.

 

[DenchDeckard]

Is there any update on how sonys big blockbusters are performing right now. What's the completion percentage vs units sold on Horizon. God of war will be truly great I think but spending 200 million to make horizon for it to swim in 8 out of tens and not sell too well is not sustainable either, right? How often will we receive 200 million dollar budget games that are truly exclusive if this trend continues.

I think sonys model shows as much uncertainty as any sub service right now. Sure, God of war will sell millions, so will spider man 2 but I truly believe last of us 2 hasn't performed as well as they hoped. What else is there that is truly an blockbuster experience. Games like ghost of tsushima and horizon are only as good as a decent assassins creed really imo and many, many others from what I can gather.

When they go ps5 exclusive they will be lucky to sell 3 to 5 million copies for the next couple of years. That ain't going to break even, never mind make a profit. I don't think PC can bolster that number.

 

[Panajev2001a]

A lot of people saying, "I'll gladly $70." So would I. We can assume everybody here has no problem spending money on big games they want. However, when you start seeing enough of those same incredible games coming to you for effectively free year after year, month after month, how many times will you be as willing to spend that same $70 time and time again if you don't have to? This isn't just about $70 games, but $60 games, too. If I have a choice between keeping my damn money in my pocket and instead using that to go out to a nice restaurant or get something else nice that I want, that's precisely what I'll do. And I say this as someone who has plenty to spend and buy just about whatever I want. But at some stage there comes a point where "effectively free" for a low monthly fee starts to look a lot more appealing than dropping $60.

Why would I feel bad about it when the company whose game is on there got paid, their game development costs partially or fully covered in the case of first party studios and some third party studios, and when a company chose to offer me such an incredible deal? I will indulge and keep indulging to my heart's content. Let them worry about their business bottom line. They didn't put money in my pocket, so I won't give them a dollar more than I feel is necessary.

You are perfectly entitled to enjoy the current offer and help to push in your little turf the industry towards subscription services and help devalue game prices.
I just hope you are not kidding yourself that you can have your cake (diversity of publishers and devs and very large single player and multiplayer experiences) and eat it too (game design will not change, game devaluation / subscription services will not change how games are made and monetised) and are honest in saying “do not really care what it can lead to, iOS++ like gaming landscape, I am just enjoying the moment”.

Your post is game devaluation is many words: “why should so pay for games when so can get them all for free?” (GPU fees become like paying the shop owner to get in the candy store after hours and unsupervised).

 

[Panajev2001a]

Games like ghost of tsushima and horizon are only as good as a decent assassins creed really

Oh come on man, get over yourself…

 

[Godot25]

Is there any update on how sonys big blockbusters are performing right now. What's the completion percentage vs units sold on Horizon.

Well. Sony is bundling Horizon Forbidden West with PS5 consoles to move copies. That should probably tell you all you need to know.
There is a pretty basic rule when talking about Sony games. If game is successful, Sony will brag about sales. If they are not that hot, they are quiet.

 

[shaddam]

I'm ok with this. Sure, it would be great to have GOW:Ragnarök level games on day one for "free", but I have an idea what would happen to the quality in long term. I could even see GOW releasing in monthly episodes to keep people subbed. I dont want lesser games for free

 

[Heisenberg007]

This year, yes because of delays.


The problem here a lot of what you say subjective. Forbidden west may have the best visuals ive seen but if I dont like other aspects it doesn't matter. Infinite has the best sound this gen imo and I prefer it to forbidden west. Im looking forward to Ragnarok, the story trailer looked excellent I wish that was coming day1 to ps extra.
Sony games are not above everything else in terms of sound, gameplay, scope and the technical sophistication of there visuals, SSm and naughty dog excel at story, attention to detail and polish. Where as most games will have a generic cave or wall, these devs will go the extra mile and add wear and tear, some weeds growing, Maybe some gravetti etc.

Games take time and if ms dont deliver next year with first party then I will have legitimate concern. But bar any disasters they have some great devs and there games will come and should amaze just as much as sonys top brass.

But this is really coming down to a subjective opinions so theres not much more to really discuss.

I disagree with the Sound Design thing. Returnal has by far the best design this generation of any game, even better than Horizon Forbidden West. I've heard great things about TLOU 1 Remake's sound design but didn't get a chance to play it yet, so I can't comment.

But you gotta try Returnal if you haven't with proper 3D audio headphones. It's the best I've ever heard. You'll love it.

And for Ragnarok coming on day 1 on PS Extra >> that's the entire point, I think. In my opinion, Ragnarok looks so fantastic and epic because it's not on PS+ Extra on day one. Any move that limits the sales and revenue potential of a game title will dictate how much budget it gets for development.

If Ragnarok was launching on PS+ day one, it wouldn't look this awesome. And that's what Jim, Shu, Zelnick, Shawn, and others have been saying in different ways.

 

[Sosokrates]

What an unusual comment. 2023 has the potential to be one of their biggest years every, if not THE biggest year ever. This is due to:

1) Games. In terms of first party titles & console exclusives so far for 2023 we know of Spider-Man 2, Stellar Blade, Forspoken, Final Final 16, Horizon Call of the Mountain (no date, but they're practically marketing it as a launch title), and we know 2 unannounced live service games will be launching before the end of this fiscal year at the end of March 2023 (my guess is Helldivers 2 and TLOU MP). Of course there will also be MLB which is already on PS, Xbox and Switch. Given Sony's PC push it stands to reason to that it'll make its way there, and we know Sony San Diego has been hiring for mobile talent, so a mobile MLB The Show seems like it's in the works as well. Then we know that Destiny 2 will have one of its biggest updates ever with Lightfall in February.

Add to that the entire PSVR2 lineup for the entire year. All of this is before we've even gotten their showcase to market the next wave of games after God of War. There's a VERY slim chance that Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth may be in that year as well, but that might be a 2024 title.


2) PSVR2. We know that PSVR2 will have "more than 20 major games at launch" and previews so far have been over the moon at the experience it provides. It's coming early 2023

3) PS5 sales. The PS5 availability has already been picking up and they plan to ship 18 million units this FY, and have to ship ~15 million in the last 3 quarters of this FY to hit that goal. That leads into next FY where Sony has stated they plan for the PS5 to surpass the sales curve of the PS4. That means they have to ship over 23 million PS5's at the very least next FY, which in itself I think may be a record for any PlayStation console. Then we have the recent leak from Tom Henderson saying that they actually plan to ship 30.5 million PS5's next FY, which I think may be a record for any home console in history (someone please correct me).

4) PlayStation Productions. We know that the TLOU HBO series will be out in 2023. We also know that the Gran Turismo movie is set for August 2023. We know that the Twisted Metal TV series has completed filming, so it could very well launch in 2023 as well.


So yes, with 2023 already shaping up to be quite a packed year for their games (again, this is before we've even gotten their showcase), and with the prospect of them breaking Playstation, or even maybe industry records for console sales, how is 2023 gonna be rough?

I think 2023 will be good for sony but a tiny bit weaker then 2022 in broad appeal.
PSVR2 is a bit of a metoo product, which is not to say its bad, but bringing the PSVR more in line with the quest 2 and PC solutions is not that new or exciting for the mass market. I think it will appeal to people who have a psvr1 or a quest 2 and want a upgrade. But for people who have tried VR and found it collecting dust it does seem more of the same.
Final fantasy has its fanbase but there games are not really pushing any new boundaries,Forspoken looks ok and stellar blade while looking good does not have much buzz.

Spiderman 2 if released will be the biggest driver for 2023 for playstation. But I would not be shocked if it slipps into 2024. Despite insomniacs impressive turn out of quality titles. Spiderman 2 is a big undertaking.
It guess it depends on which direction they go, they could just adapt and upgrade the city from s1 or they could make a new city from scratch for the PS5, no doubt insomniac are under a lot of pressure to make the marquee next gen open world action game. I actually want them to take longer because I dont if its possible to improve the open world aspects or deliver the expectations of a "next gen" open world game in 3 years.

 

[Three]

Free radio music's is mostly commercial pop music. Where each song is made to chart for a week then it disappears. You want the Cardi B of games? Also artist make most of there money tour. That song on the radio is more like advertisement for you to buy their album and buy tickets to their show.

I don't want the Cardi B of games. Just pointing out that the enthusiast crowd are not people concerned about paying for music and buying tickets even though a cheap alternative with no ownership exists (with mixed in ads).

 

[Heisenberg007]

Well. Sony is bundling Horizon Forbidden West with PS5 consoles to move copies. That should probably tell you all you need to know.
There is a pretty basic rule when talking about Sony games. If game is successful, Sony will brag about sales. If they are not that hot, they are quiet.

You couldn't be more wrong with that generalization. Three examples:

1. We never heard updates about God of War's sales performance. Was it a failure? Because when Sony did share, they shared that GOW has sold almost 20 million copies.
2. Sony didn't share any update on TLOU 2. Some people speculated that TLOU 2 was a failure. But we know that GOT sold 8 million copies, and TLOU 2 was always ahead of GOT. In fact, TLOU 2 is tracking ahead of TLOU 1 in sales.
3. Sony didn't share any data on Horizon Zero Dawn. But then we found out (and even I was surprised!) that HZD had sold more than 20 million copies.

Sony didn't report numbers for any of these games. And all three of these were mammoth successes.

 

[Sosokrates]

I disagree with the Sound Design thing. Returnal has by far the best design this generation of any game, even better than Horizon Forbidden West. I've heard great things about TLOU 1 Remake's sound design but didn't get a chance to play it yet, so I can't comment.

But you gotta try Returnal if you haven't with proper 3D audio headphones. It's the best I've ever heard. You'll love it.

And for Ragnarok coming on day 1 on PS Extra >> that's the entire point, I think. In my opinion, Ragnarok looks so fantastic and epic because it's not on PS+ Extra on day one. Any move that limits the sales and revenue potential of a game title will dictate how much budget it gets for development.

If Ragnarok was launching on PS+ day one, it wouldn't look this awesome. And that's what Jim, Shu, Zelnick, Shawn, and others have been saying in different ways.

Does "3d audio" need to be turned on in ps5 settings to get returnals 3d audio? I think the first time i played it i had it turned off because i dont like the way it makes movies sound.

 

[Tarnpanzer]

In other words, they don't want to release games day 1 on Game Pass like Microsoft. We already knew that.

If they would release their AAA-Games 1 year later on Extra, this would be fine. Since you barely can play anything Day1 without getting a much more polished or feature-rich version months after release(see Spiderman, Horizon 2 or Ratched) I would have no problem waiting 1 year for these games.

 

[Three]

Well. Sony is bundling Horizon Forbidden West with PS5 consoles to move copies. That should probably tell you all you need to know.
There is a pretty basic rule when talking about Sony games. If game is successful, Sony will brag about sales. If they are not that hot, they are quiet.

Sony has bundled some of their best selling games and so has MS. They have not bragged about some of their best selling games units until years later. NPD doesn't even include bundles and HFW still charts. The bundles are to increase margins on hardware sold, not to shift copies of poor performing games. Sony even did a GTA5 PS4 bundle for crying out loud. Want to tell me GTAV is a poor performer too?

 

[Heisenberg007]

That's the reason why the AAA industry is in the state that is (remasters, remakes, sequels). Because the budget for marketing and graphical fidelity (motion capture etc) has become so big, that no innovation is done at that level. On one hand you guys denounce the lack of innovation in AAA area, but at the same time you want big budget games and production value.

I personally have more fun in indies and AA games than in the big AAA games. They become so predictable in terms of story, narrative, gameplay.

Not other publishers, but Sony is still taking huge risks though, despite spending $100-$200 million on each game.

• God of War (2018) was rebooted and completely different from previous games in the franchise: third-person combat, different mythology, no jump, AI companion, etc.
• TLOU 2. They fucking killed Joel!
• Returnal. AAA, third-person, rogue-like, bullet-hell that's tough as nails?!
• Ghost of Tsushima. A Japanese game made by a Western game studio with no Japanese connection, in a world where everyone is offended by everything.
• Death Stranding. Seriously, the biggest risk. A star-studded cast in an open-world game that is about delivering packages.
• GOWR. It seems very likely that Kratos might die in this game and there may a couple of "Abby" type surprises in there.

So both things can be true at the same time in Sony's case.

They are making big-budget AAA games that cost $100-$200 million to make. But they are taking risks at the same time. What more do we need?

 

[Godot25]

You couldn't be more wrong with that generalization. Three examples:

1. We never heard updates about God of War's sales performance. Was it a failure? Because when Sony did share, they shared that GOW has sold almost 20 million copies.
2. Sony didn't share any update on TLOU 2. Some people speculated that TLOU 2 was a failure. But we know that GOT sold 8 million copies, and TLOU 2 was always ahead of GOT. In fact, TLOU 2 is tracking ahead of TLOU 1 in sales.
3. Sony didn't share any data on Horizon Zero Dawn. But then we found out (and even I was surprised!) that HZD had sold more than 20 million copies.

Sony didn't report numbers for any of these games. And all three of these were mammoth successes.

What? Sony publicly said that God of War sold 3,1 million copies in first three days and 5 million copies in first month and 10 million copies by May 2019. They actually provided pretty clear picture about sales of that game.
Same for HZD. They stated that game sold 2,6 million copies in two weeks, then 7,8 million copies after year and 10 million copies after two years and 20 million copies by February 2022.

So yeah. Sony did not provided any numbers for Rift Apart, Gran Turismo 7, Forbidden West. Only number for Returnal is 700 copies. Similar to PS4 gen when they did not talk much about sales of Death Stranding and Days Gone. And we know that Days Gone sold so much copies that Sony did not greenlit a sequel.

And to be honest, that TLOU2 sales are not that impressive considering fact that new IP (Ghost of Tsushima - 9,73 million copies by July 2022)) sold almost same amount of copies as sequel to one of the best rated games in history that got 93 on OpenCritic and clusterfuck of Game of the Year awards.

 

[Heisenberg007]

Does "3d audio" need to be turned on in ps5 settings to get returnals 3d audio? I think the first time i played it i had it turned off because i dont like the way it makes movies sound.

I don't remember the exact settings because I never tweak them. But I think yes, 3D audio should be turned on, Linear PCM selected, there are 5 3D audio profiles to pick from. Use the one that sounds the best to you (they have now added multiple options for comparisons). It's really cool.

In Returnal, you can pinpoint the exact location the enemy could be with just the sounds. Sometimes, you can even identify what type of enemy it is (even if you don't see them). It's super immersive.

 

[Godot25]

Not other publishers, but Sony is still taking huge risks though, despite spending $100-$200 million on each game.

• God of War (2018) was rebooted and completely different from previous games in the franchise: third-person combat, different mythology, no jump, AI companion, etc.
• TLOU 2. They fucking killed Joel!
• Returnal. AAA, third-person, rogue-like, bullet-hell that's tough as nails?!
• Ghost of Tsushima. A Japanese game made by a Western game studio with no Japanese connection, in a world where everyone is offended by everything.
• Death Stranding. Seriously, the biggest risk. A star-studded cast in an open-world game that is about delivering packages.
• GOWR. It seems very likely that Kratos might die in this game and there may a couple of "Abby" type surprises in there.

So both things can be true at the same time in Sony's case.

They are making big-budget AAA games that cost $100-$200 million to make. But they are taking risks at the same time. What more do we need?

If you think that Returnal had 100-200 million budget I have bridge to sell to you.

It's funny that people are using Returnal when talking about how Sony "can't afford to put their games into PS Plus day one" when Returnal is prime example of low-erish budget game that is so focused in what they tried to do, that it is best game from last year from Sony first-party and would probably hugely benefited from increased exposure through sub service. Especially when many people glossed through it because of insane 80€ pricetag.

 

[vivftp]

I think 2023 will be good for sony but a tiny bit weaker then 2022 in broad appeal.
PSVR2 is a bit of a metoo product, which is not to say its bad, but bringing the PSVR more in line with the quest 2 and PC solutions is not that new or exciting for the mass market. I think it will appeal to people who have a psvr1 or a quest 2 and want a upgrade. But for people who have tried VR and found it collecting dust it does seem more of the same.
Final fantasy has its fanbase but there games are not really pushing any new boundaries,Forspoken looks ok and stellar blade while looking good does not have much buzz.

Spiderman 2 if released will be the biggest driver for 2023 for playstation. But I would not be shocked if it slipps into 2024. Despite insomniacs impressive turn out of quality titles. Spiderman 2 is a big undertaking.
It guess it depends on which direction they go, they could just adapt and upgrade the city from s1 or they could make a new city from scratch for the PS5, no doubt insomniac are under a lot of pressure to make the marquee next gen open world action game. I actually want them to take longer because I dont if its possible to improve the open world aspects or deliver the expectations of a "next gen" open world game in 3 years.

- You're countering the PSVR2 facts and impressions we've gotten with your own personal interpretation of what you think will be the situation.
- Final Fantasy 16 will be a huge release for them, especially in Japan.
- Forspoken and Stellar Blade are brand new IPs and we'll see what sort of audience they draw.
- Spider-Man 2 has a current 2023 release scheduled. We can talk hypotheticals until the cows come home, but that doesn't matter. We go with what the facts currently are. As for your personal feelings, well that's nice and I hope you enjoy it. Indeed, Spider-Man 2 stands to be one of, if not their biggest title of 2023.


With the sheer amount of unknowns from their studios and how many projects they've got underway, and games that were pushed out of 2022 to be in 2023 due to the pandemic delays, there's a very real possibility of 2023 rivaling the ludicrous amount of first party and console exclusive games we got 2020. The PSVR2 and its lineup alone will greatly add to that list.

 

[Sosokrates]

I don't remember the exact settings because I never tweak them. But I think yes, 3D audio should be turned on, Linear PCM selected, there are 5 3D audio profiles to pick from. Use the one that sounds the best to you (they have now added multiple options for comparisons). It's really cool.

In Returnal, you can pinpoint the exact location the enemy could be with just the sounds. Sometimes, you can even identify what type of enemy it is (even if you don't see them). It's super immersive.

After the recent PS5 update i changed the 3d audio settings because the update did something regarding audio but I cant remember what, I remember the 3d test profiles sounding better though. So I will see how Returnals sound is since ive recently brought it.

 

[Lasha]

There are different tiers to everything.

If you're going to argue that someone who has a physical collection of ultra-HD blu rays, a complete home cinema system with a projector and 7+ surround reference quality sound speakers is the same as your average joe who just plops on the sofa and watches his movies via netflix on an uncalibrated HD TV then I'd tell you you're wrong.

As far as movies go theres physical media (at differing tiers), Kaleidescape, digital downloads and digital streaming (it gets messy here because the streaming services and even the devices used to stream make a difference). All of those options suit different types of customer.

There is a distinct difference between someone who is simply a fan of their hobby and someone who is an enthusiast. One visit to avforums will show you the gulf between different people. The same thing applys in gaming. We have some legit enthusiasts here and we have some people who claim to be but aren't (actions and attitudes speak volumes). It's not about gatekeeping, it's the reality of the situation.

The ultimate litmus test is how individuals react when you take the content they need for their hobby away from them, hence most people who are completely and utterly serious about it will prefer physical media over anything else - simply because just the thought of them no longer having access makes them uneasy.

It's not an exact science, nothing like this is but it would be disingenuous to suggest everyone is the same just because they get involved in some way shape or form.



Let me put it this way, I struggle to see how someone who claims to be an "enthusiast" would be against those who care about ownership and the overall health of the industry that oversees their hobby. A lot of these discussions boil down to "fuck you, I get cheap access to games, don't care about anything else". It's all good until it's not.

Do you actually believe what you just wrote? Youre describing materialism or consumerism more than enthusiasm. Enthusiasm has to do with interest rather than how much money you spend. What a weird way to try and gatekeep.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

2023 is good to be a rough year for Sony. They are damage controlling big time.

Wrong thread?

 

[Stooky]

Well. Sony is bundling Horizon Forbidden West with PS5 consoles to move copies. That should probably tell you all you need to know.
There is a pretty basic rule when talking about Sony games. If game is successful, Sony will brag about sales. If they are not that hot, they are quiet.

Sony saves their sales numbers for when it will make the largest impact and track the best. Games are bundled with systems to push console sales. Its actually a better indicator that the game is projected to sell well. These bundles are planned far in advance with the release of the game.

 

[Godot25]

Sony saves their sales numbers for when it will make the largest impact and track the best. Games are bundled with systems to push console sales. Its actually a better indicator that the game is projected to sell well. Often these bundles are planned years in advance of the release of the game.

Yeah. I'm sure sales of PS5 would be lower if the did not bundeled Forbidden West...
/s

 

[Sosokrates]

You're countering the PSVR2 facts and impressions we've gotten with your own personal interpretation of what you think will be the situation.

Like what?
Im just echoing information from digital foundry and kinda funnys PSVR2 reports. What personal interpretation are you referring to

Final Fantasy 16 will be a huge release for them, especially in Japan.

Yes in japan.

Forspoken and Stellar Blade are brand new IPs and we'll see what sort of audience they draw.

Ok captain obvious, that does not change the impression and reactions people and the press have had to these games which has been nothing special.

Spider-Man 2 has a current 2023 release scheduled. We can talk hypotheticals until the cows come home, but that doesn't matter. We go with what the facts currently are. As for your personal feelings, well that's nice and I hope you enjoy it. Indeed, Spider-Man 2 stands to be one of, if not their biggest title of 2023.

Like 90% of conversation here is speculation. But i have reasons for my speculation if you disagree please explain why. I mean my speculation is based on a lot of facts. Sm2 is open world, it is a next gen exclusive. What open world game has raised the bar in 3yrs? Sm2 may just be another action combat game with a great story and gameplay, which is something i also said, weird how u only focus on the negetive.
It really depends on which direction insomniac want to go, wouldn't you agree. Nothing bad about either approach. But it will determine development time.

 

[wolffy71]

Ok but they are going to put there games on a game service day one, anyway. Just a question of when.

 

[Stooky]

Yeah. I'm sure sales of PS5 would be lower if the did not bundeled Forbidden West...
/s

Im sure Sony thought stores would be stock piling PS5 by now.

 

[Hobbygaming]

That's the reason why the AAA industry is in the state that is (remasters, remakes, sequels). Because the budget for marketing and graphical fidelity (motion capture etc) has become so big, that no innovation is done at that level. On one hand you guys denounce the lack of innovation in AAA area, but at the same time you want big budget games and production value.

I personally have more fun in indies and AA games than in the big AAA games. They become so predictable in terms of story, narrative, gameplay.

I'm not complaining about innovation, I love all sorts of games AAA, AA and small indies. I really like where gaming is at right now, there's so much good stuff out there

 

[Heisenberg007]

If you think that Returnal had 100-200 million budget I have bridge to sell to you.

It's funny that people are using Returnal when talking about how Sony "can't afford to put their games into PS Plus day one" when Returnal is prime example of low-erish budget game that is so focused in what they tried to do, that it is best game from last year from Sony first-party and would probably hugely benefited from increased exposure through sub service. Especially when many people glossed through it because of insane 80€ pricetag.

Isn't it convenient that you missed every other game on the list and, therefore, the point I was trying to make?

For your convenience, let's remove Returnal from that list. All the other games are big blockbuster titles. So my point still stands. Sony makes $100-$200 million games and still takes risks.

 

[Loxus]

Jim Ryan said, "We believe in generations" just a few months before Sony quietly confirmed that three of its planned launch titles were cross-gen with PS5 and PS4 (and Horizon was confirmed cross-gen the same day the game was announced, same with Spidey and Sackboy; Gran Turismo may have been a late choice to port down, according to some rumors but probably we'll never know for sure.)

So, okay, I guess maybe those beliefs held strong for 4 whole months?

Also, knock it off with your circular logic that them making a new box means they believed in making a new box. People understand new hardware is meant to deliver on new expectations. This gen has been frustratingly slow to deliver what elitists might call "true next-gen" (although in terms of play speed and cool controller features, this generation genuinely arrived), and we can debate about whether cross-gen has actually been an anchor on these first few years of games or if it's just a matter of the state of the industry and technology that next-gen exclusives aren't kicking ass like past gens, but nobody is looking at the current slate of PS5 and Xbox Series titles and considering them to be Mission Accomplished.

If they didn't believe in Generations, there wouldn't be a PS5 or PSVR2, plain and simple.

 

[vivftp]

Like what?
Im just echoing information from digital foundry and kinda funnys PSVR2 reports. What personal interpretation are you referring to

You're "metoo" speculation on how it will be received. You have no factual basis to back up that assertation. This is the only modern VR headset available to console owners. Its predecessor was a gen 1 headset that was the best selling VR headset until Quest 2 came along and this promises far superior capabilities, far easier setup and a more robust launch library. Why try to downplay its potential?

Yes in japan.

Indeed

Ok captain obvious, that does not change the impression and reactions people and the press have had to these games which has been nothing special.

And this means what? I was pointing out that PlayStation already had a reasonably large and diverse lineup for 2023 before we've ever had their showcase. A game is a game, and we'll have to wait until they launch to see just how good they are and how well received they are. The recent Forspoken trailer from 4 weeks ago has 1.5 million views on the PlayStation channel and the Stellar Blade trailer from 8 days ago has 500k views. Definitely not the highest heights that game trailers have hit, but it at least shows some interest is out there. This isn't unusual for new IP

Like 90% of conversation here is speculation. But i have reasons for my speculation if you disagree please explain why. I mean my speculation is based on a lot of facts. Sm2 is open world, it is a next gen exclusive. What open world game has raised the bar in 3yrs? Sm2 may just be another action combat game with a great story and gameplay, which is something i also said, weird how u only focus on the negetive.
It really depends on which direction insomniac want to go, wouldn't you agree. Nothing bad about either approach. But it will determine development time.

I'm talking about how large Spider-Man 2 will be for their lineup. If you want to dive into the fine details of how the game will be designed, then fine. I have no interest in discussing that as it's 100% speculation.


Your posts are unusual, seemed geared towards taking my talking points and trying to put negative spins on them. Most curious indeed.

 

[skit_data]

Does "3d audio" need to be turned on in ps5 settings to get returnals 3d audio? I think the first time i played it i had it turned off because i dont like the way it makes movies sound.

I don't remember the exact settings because I never tweak them. But I think yes, 3D audio should be turned on, Linear PCM selected, there are 5 3D audio profiles to pick from. Use the one that sounds the best to you (they have now added multiple options for comparisons). It's really cool.

In Returnal, you can pinpoint the exact location the enemy could be with just the sounds. Sometimes, you can even identify what type of enemy it is (even if you don't see them). It's super immersive.

Isn’t 3D audio only active in games that support the feature, not in movies or other content? I.e the only content that ”activate” the 3D audio are games supporting the feature?

 

[Godot25]

Isn't it convenient that you missed every other game on the list and, therefore, the point I was trying to make?

For your convenience, let's remove Returnal from that list. All the other games are big blockbuster titles. So my point still stands. Sony makes $100-$200 million games and still takes risks.

And what convinced you that Microsoft is not making 100-200 million games with risks and still releasing their game into subscription day one? Long development times (which costs more money?) or fact that Microsoft allowed The Coalition to stop churning new Gears game every third year to make something new and fresh?

I mean, every first-party studio that Microsoft bought expanded in last few years which costs more money (shocker, I know). They are willing to reboot games to find something great (Everwild) or bring expansive third-party to help with development (Perfect Dark or Age of Empires IV).

I know that many Sony fans likes to bring Halo Infinite into conversation when talking about "harm of Game Pass," but can we all agree that H:I was more 343's fault than Game Pass fault (especially when main problem with that game is live service component of free-to-play multiplayer)? Because every other Game Pass game in last few months was great despite being in Game Pass. Forza Horizon 5, Age of Empires IV, Psychonauts 2, Microsoft Flight Sim, Gears 5, Ori, Gears Tactics etc. Like, can you provide example of one first-party Microsoft game when you said "yeah, Game Pass caused that it was bad?"

At the end of the day, market will decide. If they like subscription service that has Call of Duty/Starfield/Forza/Indiana Jones/Fable/Gears/Diablo/Everwild in it or they like paying 80€ for every game.

 

[Heisenberg007]

And what convinced you that Microsoft is not making 100-200 million games with risks and still releasing their game into subscription day one? Long development times (which costs more money?) or fact that Microsoft allowed The Coalition to stop churning new Gears game every third year to make something new and fresh?

I mean, every first-party studio that Microsoft bought expanded in last few years which costs more money (shocker, I know). They are willing to reboot games to find something great (Everwild) or bring expansive third-party to help with development (Perfect Dark or Age of Empires IV).

I know that many Sony fans likes to bring Halo Infinite into conversation when talking about "harm of Game Pass," but can we all agree that H:I was more 343's fault than Game Pass fault (especially when main problem with that game is live service component of free-to-play multiplayer)? Because every other Game Pass game in last few months was great despite being in Game Pass. Forza Horizon 5, Age of Empires IV, Psychonauts 2, Microsoft Flight Sim, Gears 5, Ori, Gears Tactics etc. Like, can you provide example of one first-party Microsoft game when you said "yeah, Game Pass caused that it was bad?"

At the end of the day, market will decide. If they like subscription service that has Call of Duty/Starfield/Forza/Indiana Jones/Fable/Gears/Diablo/Everwild in it or they like paying 80€ for every game.

Umm ... my eyes. Because I haven't seen those games yet with production values that scream $100 - $200 million budgets.

 

[Haggard]

No, it's not but you are in the really small minority of people that do that. Most will stay subscribed long term, even when they stop using the service!

People aren't collectively suffering from Alzheimer's and forget what they're paying for.....

 

[recma12]

Is there any update on how sonys big blockbusters are performing right now. What's the completion percentage vs units sold on Horizon

I have a feeling HFW bombed.
Game is 29.99€ everywhere here in the EU now, plus download codes (from the PS5 bundle) can be had for 20€ on eBay.

Says alot that people rather want 20€ than play HFW on their brand new PS5.

 

[Godot25]

Umm ... my eyes. Because I haven't seen those games yet with production values that scream $100 - $200 million budgets.

It's refreshing to know that you are able to predict budget of Fable, Perfect Dark, Startfield and Indiana Jones games. Because I have a sense that Microsoft is spending way more money on their first-party games then in 2014-2017 when Game Pass did not existed.
I'm sure next Call of Duty games will be made by 80 people in barn just because they will be releasing that game into Game Pass
It's also strange that EA is announcing one story-driven SP game after another since they have their own "day-one" subscription service.

Let's be clear. Nobody have a "proof" that releasing your game into subscription day one is negatively effecting budget of games. Sony fans are parroting that narrative because Sony head honchos have said it. The moment Sony will allow their first-party to be released into their subscription day one, Sony fans would be celebrating that as a "victory for gamers." It's same thing as Jimbo said few years ago that nobody is playing old games. And Sony fans keep repeating that until Sony digged into backwards compatibility first with PS5 and then with their old consoles. And now it is best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Sosokrates]

You're "metoo" speculation on how it will be received. You have no factual basis to back up that assertation.

Whats speculative about it? The PSVR2 is like if the quest 2 and PSVR1 fucked and had a superior offspring, no doubt it will be one of the best headsets, but its not really doing anything that new in the VR space hence the "metoo" comment.

Why try to downplay its potential?

Im not. But what leads you to believe its going to be some huge hit which will propel playstation in 2023?
Im not downplaying it, im being more of a realists. PSVR2 is an update, a great update, but its not doing anything that has not already been done before. While the quest 2 has been selling well from a content perspective VR has not had many big hits since half life Alyx and the games sony have shown for PSVR2 are nothing new or exciting, just bring stuff done before to an up to date VR level. Climbing and shooting in horizon vr or playing re village maybe exciting for some but its been done before and didnt really move the VR needle and I dont think it will move the needle much for VR on console, especially considering you much have much change after £1000 to play it.

And this means what? I was pointing out that PlayStation already had a reasonably large and diverse lineup for 2023 before we've ever had their showcase. A game is a game, and we'll have to wait until they launch to see just how good they are and how well received they are. The recent Forspoken trailer from 4 weeks ago has 1.5 million views on the PlayStation channel and the Stellar Blade trailer from 8 days ago has 500k views. Definitely not the highest heights that game trailers have hit, but it at least shows some interest is out there. This isn't unusual for new IP

I mean your originally argument that 2023 will be ps5s best year... Maybe in sales but you an I both know this conversation is not only about sales. Your proving my point gor me, those games are not as anticipated as gow and horizon fw hence why I think 2023 will be slight weaker the 22.

Your posts are unusual, seemed geared towards taking my talking points and trying to put negative spins on them. Most curious indeed.

Lol, dont get upset just because the actual reality of things may not be how you want things to go.

I mean my agrument is not even negative the ps5 having a better 2022 compared to 2023 is not bad or abnormal. I mean in 2022 they had 3 games from there best developers...

 

[vaibhavpisal]

Umm ... my eyes. Because I haven't seen those games yet with production values that scream $100 - $200 million budgets.

I suggest you to play them then.

Flight Simulator, Forza Horizon are polished and definitely must be expensive.

Psychonauts 2 is AAA 3D platformer in this day and age, one of most risky games. It's amazing.

 

[GymWolf]

One makes business sense, the other does not.

One fuck the clients (that bought a ps5 for nextgen games) in the ass for pure greed, the other is actually convenient if you don't swim in gold and still want to play stuff at day one.

But yeah if you are a sony shareholder, it makes all the sense in the word.

 

[Hobbygaming]

I've heard great things about TLOU 1 Remake's sound design

It is phenomenal. They've added so many details. Water puddles really sound like you're getting your feet wet, you can hear frogs near lilly pads, flies near trash, melee with wood and metal pipes sound authentic, they put a lot of nuance into the game

 

[Heisenberg007]

It's refreshing to know that you are able to predict budget of Fable, Perfect Dark, Startfield and Indiana Jones games. Because I have a sense that Microsoft is spending way more money on their first-party games then in 2014-2017 when Game Pass did not existed.
I'm sure next Call of Duty games will be made by 80 people in barn just because they will be releasing that game into Game Pass
It's also strange that EA is announcing one story-driven SP game after another since they have their own "day-one" subscription service.

Let's be clear. Nobody have a "proof" that releasing your game into subscription day one is negatively effecting budget of games. Sony fans are parroting that narrative because Sony head honchos have said it. The moment Sony will allow their first-party to be released into their subscription day one, Sony fans would be celebrating that as a "victory for gamers." It's same thing as Jimbo said few years ago that nobody is playing old games. And Sony fans keep repeating that until Sony digged into backwards compatibility first with PS5 and then with their old consoles. And now it is best thing since sliced bread.

What?! LOL. I'm not predicting anything. You are.

You're asking me to believe that Fable, Perfect Dark, Avowed, etc. have development budgets of $100-$200 million. I'm asking to see them first and whether those games actually look like they have that kind of budget.

 

[vivftp]

Whats speculative about it? The PSVR2 is like if the quest 2 and PSVR1 fucked and had a superior offspring, no doubt it will be one of the best headsets, but its not really doing anything that new in the VR space hence the "metoo" comment.

Im not. But what leads you to believe its going to be some huge hit which will propel playstation in 2023?
Im not downplaying it, im being more of a realists. PSVR2 is an update, a great update, but its not doing anything that has not already been done before. While the quest 2 has been selling well from a content perspective VR has not had many big hits since half life Alyx and the games sony have shown for PSVR2 are nothing new or exciting, just bring stuff done before to an up to date VR level. Climbing and shooting in horizon vr or playing re village maybe exciting for some but its been done before and didnt really move the VR needle and I dont think it will move the needle much for VR on console, especially considering you much have much change after £1000 to play it.

It's bringing foveated rendering, eye tracking and headset haptics to the table. Plus of course the adaptive trigger and controller haptics. It'll also be bringing its library. The point of my original post is that cumulatively 2023 has the potential to be one of their biggest years ever and this is part of that. For some odd reason you seem to be arguing that each individual thing needs to be THE major thing that "propels PlayStation in 2023" when in fact it's everything combined.

I mean your originally argument that 2023 will be ps5s best year... Maybe in sales but you an I both know this conversation is not only about sales. Your proving my point gor me, those games are not as anticipated as gow and horizon fw hence why I think 2023 will be slight weaker the 22.

I said, "2023 has the potential to be one of their biggest years every, if not THE biggest year ever." Key word potential. Also, I'm unsure why you're focusing only on the games and PSVR side of my original post and ignoring the potentially record breaking console figures and the possibility of 3 major PlayStation Productions projects drop in a single year. Again, all of this before they've even had their showcase which would introduce the next wave of games for them to market after God of War.

Lol, dont get upset just because the actual reality of things may not be how you want things to go.

I mean my agrument is not even negative the ps5 having a better 2022 compared to 2023 is not bad or abnormal. I mean in 2022 they had 3 games from there best developers...

Why do you think I'm upset? Because I question your points and possibly your motives?

Your arguments seems designed to downplay and dismiss points using speculation and your personal feelings to try and support what you're saying.

Either way, I'm done speaking with you on this. Have a good day

 

[Bernd Lauert]

Sony makes $100-$200 million games and still takes risks.

Returnal was somewhat risky, even though its budget probably wasn't that big. Everything else though? Not even close. Sony found their formula and they make sure to stick to it.

 

[Negotiator101]

Yeh the abyss of 2022. Until they claw themselves out of it that's how it will remain.



100% serious. With those review scores, with it being Neogaf game of the year, Halo Infinite should have sold well as a $70 if it weren't "free" on a subscription service right? Might have given them a healthy dose of direct revenue.

You talked about pressure, where exactly is it coming from?

Hint: your personal feelings don't count - the market (and subsequent outcomes) in the real world paints an opposing picture.

The Halo thing to me had many issues running up to launch. First of all they separated the campaign and MP (which was F2P) and both taken as separate games were lacking in content (and still are). Marketing was also lacklustre and it seemed like it was a "get it out the door" mentality. Long story short it was not the marquee event a new Halo game should be.

Top brass IMO are looking very carefully at what Microsoft are doing with GP.

 

[Chukhopops]

Let me put it this way, I struggle to see how someone who claims to be an "enthusiast" would be against those who care about ownership and the overall health of the industry that oversees their hobby. A lot of these discussions boil down to "fuck you, I get cheap access to games, don't care about anything else". It's all good until it's not.

I literally said I’m ok with Sony doing what they want to do, I’m not forcing anything. It makes their sub a bit useless in my opinion but that’s it.

Also lol if you think I’m against the « overall health of the industry », whatever that means. This industry is healthy with all main actors raking in billions from their gaming division. What’s not healthy for it is constant price increases and the AAA model in general with its obsession with visuals at the cost of anything else.

In fact I’d be happy if the sub model resulted in more varied, smaller games instead of 300M budget AAA games… but it won’t happen since it’s not what the majority wants.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Returnal was somewhat risky, even though its budget probably wasn't that big. Everything else though? Not even close. Sony found their formula and they make sure to stick to it.

PSVR 2 says Hi

 

[Little Chicken]

"We can't afford to" is all he had to say.

 

[crackajack]

would probably hugely benefited from increased exposure through sub service. Especially when many people glossed through it because of insane 80€ pricetag.

doubt
The people who actually were interested and willing to pay that "insane" pricetag, were probably those who sing now praise (and some of course might be disappointed and spread some hate because they did not like it enough or at all, especially for that price), while those I just try it because it's "free" players, possibly already forget what they tried a few minutes after when they already jumped to the next "worthless" free game.
Anyone who was only hindered by the price always could wait a bit, speculate on the inclusion in old PS+, and now anyone a bit interested can try it with all praise and reviews available to read on the new extended PS+ and eventually on PC soon for again usual pricetag. You just have to have a taste yourself, some restraint in your spendings and not just follow sheep or locusts.
MS are doing what they are doing, because they failed to built that loyality and user base over the years and dropped the ball several times for mostly no reason and are now in a weird overcompensating imho unncecessary catch up mode. Sony might have seen flatrates for gaming first, PS+, gaika and onlive exist and were bought because of that, but they only saw it as an additional market path. Buying Bethesda alone and having great hw would have sufficed to finally grow MS's share, but buying AB for an actual insane pricetag which has a ROI lying decades in the future, and adding GP to the mix rather manically just burns money with questionable effects on market share and revenue, consumer behavior/conditioning and in the long run on game quality. Mobile games got much better but mostly still suck, weirdly not because of controls but rotten financing, and this is where GP is forcing everyone towards. They might ruin/change the market for everyone, by finally commiting to their market entry. The current honeymoon phase, where many seem to think MS will pay for anything endless money and developers can now finally do whatever they like, fantasizing about the source never drying up, while it might lead to a painful divorce, where MS realizes that they make less than their competitors per employee and than correct their course, dramatically, again. It's after all a company on the stock market and numbers will not show consideration about how fun and important this current GP was for their growth. Halo's coop might be unimportant but just stating that you are not focusing on it (while it actually already runs and possibly wouldn't cost a fortune and take forever to test) might already show a glimpse where MS is not commited to just pay forever for something that they promised and certainly could do.