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[Mama Smurf]

I don't really give a crap about Star Wars over most other films, but these threads always amuse so I like to come in.

I don't think I'd be allowed into the club anyway as my preferred films list just doesn't make sense to most people:

1. ROTJ
2. ANH
3. TESB
4. TPM
5. AOTC

I also think Ewan McGregor is terrible in the prequels (though he's pretty good in most things) and liked Luke's scream.

It's like I'm the anti-Star Wars fan or something.

 

[SteveMeister]

Ian McDiarmid as the emperor in Empire Strikes back

That is so. fucking. cool. Man I can't wait for this!

And Temeura Morrisson sounded great.

As far as Stormtroopers go, there's a reason they're not called Clonetroopers in IV-VI. I think that we will see at least part of the reason in Episode III.

Spoiler

As we will see in Revenge of the Sith, the Clonetroopers are pre-programmed to turn against the Jedi at a given signal. In addition to the benefit of growing a vast new army of identically capable soldiers in only 10 years, Palpatine chose Kamino clones for their programmability. But that is a double-edged sword. First, the clones have short lifespans -- they'll continue aging at an accelerated rate and only have maybe 10 years of combat effectiveness at the most (though likely most are expected to die in combat long before that). In addition, someone COULD conceivably infiltrate the Kamino clone factory and implant a program in new clones AGAINST Palpatine (someone like Vader, for example). I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the clone factories destroyed at some point in Episode III (or perhaps in the upcoming TV series that will take place between Episodes III and IV.) So no, I think the clones are not around for IV-VI. I think the Stormtroopers are mostly conscripts. There are only two bits of "evidence" that might support them being clones: "TK427, why aren't you at your post?" and "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" I think the link is tenuous...

 

[Spiritreaver]

I don't think I'd be allowed into the club anyway as my preferred films list just doesn't make sense to most people:

1. ROTJ
2. ANH
3. TESB
4. TPM
5. AOTC

Eh, that's basically my list but I'd rate TPM one step higher. I was always bitched about for not liking ESB that much. Meh, the middle films of trilogies never get to me as much as the beginning and ends do. I just find them much more underwhelming in comparison with the others.

 

[Mama Smurf]

Well I suppose it's more like this:

1. ROTJ
2. ANH
3. TESB
.
.
4. TPM
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
5. AOTC

Doesn't come across in list form.

 

[Guzim]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace

yes, you read that right.

 

[ManaByte]

That is so. fucking. cool. Man I can't wait for this!

And Temeura Morrisson sounded great.

As far as Stormtroopers go, there's a reason they're not called Clonetroopers in IV-VI. I think that we will see at least part of the reason in Episode III.

Spoiler

As we will see in Revenge of the Sith, the Clonetroopers are pre-programmed to turn against the Jedi at a given signal. In addition to the benefit of growing a vast new army of identically capable soldiers in only 10 years, Palpatine chose Kamino clones for their programmability. But that is a double-edged sword. First, the clones have short lifespans -- they'll continue aging at an accelerated rate and only have maybe 10 years of combat effectiveness at the most (though likely most are expected to die in combat long before that). In addition, someone COULD conceivably infiltrate the Kamino clone factory and implant a program in new clones AGAINST Palpatine (someone like Vader, for example). I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the clone factories destroyed at some point in Episode III (or perhaps in the upcoming TV series that will take place between Episodes III and IV.) So no, I think the clones are not around for IV-VI. I think the Stormtroopers are mostly conscripts. There are only two bits of "evidence" that might support them being clones: "TK427, why aren't you at your post?" and "Aren't you a little short for a Stormtrooper?" I think the link is tenuous...

Lucas says they are clones. Lucas' word on Star Wars Lore >>>>>>>> yours.

 

[Hitokage]

Lucas says they are clones. Lucas' word on Star Wars Lore >>>>>>>> yours.

Is this the same Lucas who suddenly contradicted his previous explaination for the force, among other things pulled from his neither regions? Lucas may say they are clones NOW, but how about 20 years ago.

 

[Baron Aloha]

May as well...

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Phantom Menace

 

[ShadowRed]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace

yes, you read that right.

IAWTP

 

[ManaByte]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace

yes, you read that right.

I almost agree.

Actually it's more like:

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Attack of the Clones
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Return of the Jedi

Rastafarian Salamander Commandos >>>>>> teddy bears.

 

[Ristamar]

I hope Lucas changes his mind on this clone issue, and it just gets glossed over, forgotten, or contradicted over time. The Clonetroopers in AoTC were lethal and professional. The Stormtroopers in the classic trilogy seemed too stupid and incompetent to be clones.

 

[btrboyev]

Apparently the light saber effects in the dvd were totally enhanced but also it seems that in certain scenes, vaders lightersaber actually is pink instead of red...then in others its a nice bright red.

 

[ManaByte]

From the owner of HTF who has seen NON BOOTLEG COPIES of the DVDs:

"Be very careful about the impressions you get
from those screen shots. I and a few others
have seen this sequence and we all agreed upon
what *seems* to have been done.

I am being very careful about what I reveal here
but I am not convinced the screenshots are giving
the right impression."

 

[btrboyev]

what scene is he referring to?

 

[ManaByte]

what scene is he referring to?

The sabers you were talking about. He is saying not to base your opinion on screenshots of a BOOTLEG that is taken from the PAL DVDs.

 

[btrboyev]

ok, sounds good then. I didn't know these were PAL rips.

 

[DSN2K]

May as well...

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. A New Hope
4. Attack of the Clones
5. The Phantom Menace

IAWTP

 

[Spectral Glider]

Here's my ranks:

1. A New Hope (Solely because it works the most as a complete film, meaning one with an actual beginning, middle and end.)
2. Empire Strikes Back - Walkers, Snowspeeders, Yoda, the shock revelation, with better direction....all good stuff
3. Return of the Jedi - I loved finally seeing Jabba, his palace was the bomb, the Sarlacc pitt, speeder bikes, the final space battle and fight between Vader and Luke all overpower the minus of the Ewoks.
4. The Phantom Menace - Solely for the light saber battles and pod race.....the rest of the film is extremely marginal at best. Oh, and Ewoks > Gungans
5. Attack of the Clones - Aside from Jango chasing Obi-Wan through the asteroid field, I find barely anything to like about this flick......boring, just an utterly boring movie that tries to make up for it at the end with a rushed battle scene and Yoda fighting. None of it won me over.

 

[dynamitejim]

He is saying not to base your opinion on screenshots of a BOOTLEG that is taken from the PAL DVDs.

I thought they were taken from rips of the retail discs? We've seen screenshots from all three films, including menus, and I believe some of the extras. And I've heard they have the commentaries as well.

 

[ManaByte]

I thought they were taken from rips of the retail discs? We've seen screenshots from all three films, including menus, and I believe some of the extras. And I've heard they have the commentaries as well.

Yes. PAL retail discs. But they are compressed to a bunch of different formats that do strange things to the image quality. That's why you never base an opinion on a bootleg.

 

[GDGF]

I have a question. Is the StarWars TV show a definite? I've been wanting that since I was a kid. If so, what is the projected date for the pilot to air?

 

[ManaByte]

I have a question. Is the StarWars TV show a definite? I've been wanting that since I was a kid. If so, what is the projected date for the pilot to air?

If not 2006 then 2007 for the 30th Anniversary.

 

[GDGF]

Rock! I can wait a bit

Crap. It just dawned on me that I'll be 30 in 2007, too...

 

[Drensch]

I don't think the Midichlorian thing contradicts the force stuff in the first trilogy, but I stand by the conscription thing. That said(hypocrisy on the way) people get too hung up on anything Lucas does or doesn't do. I think people have a overly great impression of the first trilogy built up in their heads after 20 years.

 

[Spectral Glider]

I think people have a overly great impression of the first trilogy built up in their heads after 20 years.

Possible. But I also beleive that some people have a tendency to assume that because a film has Star Wars in the title, it can't possibly be bad.

I really don't see how some people can't tell the obvious differences from the two trilogies. The original was based on old Westerns....classic good guys versus bad guys on the new frontier (in this case, space.) The bad guy was clearly obvious, he wore all black. The simplicity in the plots were on puropose, give just enough information to move the good guys along from situation to situation and action scene to action scene. Like the old Saturday serials, that was the point. The new ones however are drenched in what is supposed to be a large deceptive plot complete with political overtones and filled with such "drama enducers" like galactic senate meetings and action scenes involving trade federations and blockades. Yeesh, how I almost long for the days when George didn't have the time or the budget to tell the whole story. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a more detailed or serious plot, the trouble arises when it's not written in an exciting manor and the actors don't give performances great enough for us to care.

The new trilogy also gets too caught up in the years of "geekdom" if you will, created in the absence of new material after the original trilogy ended in 83. We never hear the word Padawan in the original, yet it's peppered here in these. And exactly how many times is the phrase, "Be mindful of your thoughts" used in the first two? I know I've heard it too much already. The midicholorian thing is another example. Heck, nobody knew most of the names for the many, zany creatures appearing in the original flicks until they magically appeared on the toy boxes later on. It's almost become a series too wrapped up in itself. And the simple fact that Boba Fett goes from being a minor player who clumsily dies in ROTJ to having a father that is the base of an entire clone army shows me a Lucas willing to pander to the fan base. I know I had several different images come to mind when I first heard the phrase "clone wars" in the 77 original. None of them involved the minor character of a bounty hunter though. Turns out my wondering thoughts were more exciting than what George conceived.

One critic put it best in 99, I forget who it was.....this trilogy tells that part of the story that didn't need to be told. I believe he was right. Doesn't mean the movies are automatically terrible or that the third is already terrible. But it also doesn't mean that some of us are just imagining that the originals were better.

 

[Flynn]

I refuse to buy into Lucas' renaming and numbering of the movies.

Fuck episodes.

They are, in numerical order.

1. Star Wars
2. The Empire Strikes Back
3. The Return of the Jedi
4. The Phantom Menace
5. Attack of the Clones
6. The Revenge of the Sith

Let the Lucasfilm rebellion begin!

 

[jett]

I don't like the changed dialogue, I think the "ending" loses a bit of it's power. Oh well, too bad for the NEWBS.

And I hope that "weesa free!" thing was really a joke, but with George Lucas, you never know...

And...

Now, what he should have done was made the Prequels so as to be consistent with the Original Trilogy. Instead, he's made crappy Prequels, and for reasons passing understanding, has decided to taint the Original Trilogy by deciding to change it to be consistent with the Prequels.

And that is why he's a hack.

I couldn't agree more with you.

 

[Flynn]

Why couldn't Lucas have made three movies set in the same universe with completely differenct characters who intersect only briefly with the leads from the first film?

By chosing his route he's painted himself into an unmanageable corner full of inconsitancies and laugable coincidences.

 

[The Promised One]

but...accents aren't genetic.

LOL, Lucas is an asshat. He's God of the Asshats.

 

[Kon Tiki]

You guys are gonna love this...

Over on the HAT for Star Wars at www.hometheaterforum.com they're reporting that the revised ending for ROTJ now features a brief clip of the celebration on Naboo:

During the scene, you can hear a voice shouting, "Weesa free!!!"

Seriously.

 

[Willco]

Star Wars is dead to me now. This is the last time you'll ever see me participate in an official Star Wars topic anymore. Seriously.

 

[jett]

Why couldn't Lucas have made three movies set in the same universe with completely differenct characters who intersect only briefly with the leads from the first film?

By chosing his route he's painted himself into an unmanageable corner full of inconsitancies and laugable coincidences.

I agree, I think a KotoR-ish approach would have been the best(I haven't actualled played the game, though) one.

 

[The Promised One]

I agree, I think a KotoR-ish approach would have been the best(I haven't actualled played the game, though) one.

KotOR was the best SW story since the original trilogy.

 

[Flynn]

KotOR was the best SW story since the original trilogy.

For the first time in history, I agree with The Promised One.

The Red/Blue divide CAN be bridged!

 

[Warm Machine]

I'd say...

Empire Strikes Back 10/10
A New Hope 10/10
Attack of the Clones 9/10
The Phantom Menace 9/10
Return of the Jedi 8/10

I'd like Return more if the storyline took as many turns and had as many plot points as the others. Return has the most simple story out of all of them. I also don't like how Muppet Show Return is even aside from the Ewoks. Anyone who defends those puppets, especially Jabba's little pal, as looking better than CG needs to take off the fanboy goggles.

 

[Flynn]

Anyone who defends those puppets, especially Jabba's little pal, as looking better than CG needs to take off the fanboy goggles.

VS

I still prefer Muppets.

 

[Warm Machine]

VS

I still prefer Muppets.

Hell I agree when you compare to the Mummy movies which didn't even have great effects when they came out. CG has realized a hell of a lot better characters than the Mummy in the last 10 years. I always thought that the Mummy could have been far more effective given a practical effects and makeup. Movies were doing effective looking living corpses for years prior to that film.

BTW when I said Jabba's pal I was referring to the little laughing muppet that hangs out beside Jabba. Oh, and the blue elephant guy wasn't very good either nor was the tentacle that tries to grab C3PO in the dungeon.

 

[Kon Tiki]

Anyone who defends those puppets, especially Jabba's little pal, as looking better than CG needs to take off the fanboy goggles.

At least they are real, as in tangible.

His 'pal' is called Salacious Crumb. If you ever watched the behind the scences video of ROTJ, you would know why puppets are superior.

 

[BobbyRobby]

Possible. But I also beleive that some people have a tendency to assume that because a film has Star Wars in the title, it can't possibly be bad.

I really don't see how some people can't tell the obvious differences from the two trilogies. The original was based on old Westerns....classic good guys versus bad guys on the new frontier (in this case, space.) The bad guy was clearly obvious, he wore all black. The simplicity in the plots were on puropose, give just enough information to move the good guys along from situation to situation and action scene to action scene. Like the old Saturday serials, that was the point. The new ones however are drenched in what is supposed to be a large deceptive plot complete with political overtones and filled with such "drama enducers" like galactic senate meetings and action scenes involving trade federations and blockades. Yeesh, how I almost long for the days when George didn't have the time or the budget to tell the whole story. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a more detailed or serious plot, the trouble arises when it's not written in an exciting manor and the actors don't give performances great enough for us to care.

The new trilogy also gets too caught up in the years of "geekdom" if you will, created in the absence of new material after the original trilogy ended in 83. We never hear the word Padawan in the original, yet it's peppered here in these. And exactly how many times is the phrase, "Be mindful of your thoughts" used in the first two? I know I've heard it too much already. The midicholorian thing is another example. Heck, nobody knew most of the names for the many, zany creatures appearing in the original flicks until they magically appeared on the toy boxes later on. It's almost become a series too wrapped up in itself. And the simple fact that Boba Fett goes from being a minor player who clumsily dies in ROTJ to having a father that is the base of an entire clone army shows me a Lucas willing to pander to the fan base. I know I had several different images come to mind when I first heard the phrase "clone wars" in the 77 original. None of them involved the minor character of a bounty hunter though. Turns out my wondering thoughts were more exciting than what George conceived.

One critic put it best in 99, I forget who it was.....this trilogy tells that part of the story that didn't need to be told. I believe he was right. Doesn't mean the movies are automatically terrible or that the third is already terrible. But it also doesn't mean that some of us are just imagining that the originals were better.

My thoughts almost exactly. Great post.

 

[nathkenn]

I think it's not really that with the cg or puppets one is better than the other. The Jim Henson style puppets had a very distincitve character and it's one of the memorable things about star wars. the new trilogy's use of cg takes away that character and is sorely missed, by me atleast

 

[JoshuaJSlone]

But the DESIGN could be the same and done in CG. If it's the design difference you dislike, sure. But don't hate on the computers. Or is it the limited movement which is the character? Which, I guess could also be done in CG, but what a waste of potential.

 

[nathkenn]

it's just he way they move and are puppeted, it's not always about the potential, sometimes it's best to avoid reality. trust me, i have no hate for cg. I have a degree in computer animation

 

[Flynn]

BTW when I said Jabba's pal I was referring to the little laughing muppet that hangs out beside Jabba. Oh, and the blue elephant guy wasn't very good either nor was the tentacle that tries to grab C3PO in the dungeon.

Okay. I'm a dork. I know the names of and like Salacious Crumb and Max Rebo.

 

[Prine]

Heh, AOTC Yoda (CG) > TPM Yoda (Puppet)

CG Yoda was awesome. I think i'll always remember the scene where Yoda is teaching his class of padawans and Obi WAn enters to discuss the mystery of Kamino.

My List

Return of the Jedi
Empire Strickes Back
KOTOR
A New Hope
AOTC
TPM

I enjoyed all the storys

 

[ManaByte]

Heh, AOTC Yoda (CG) > TPM Yoda (Puppet)

I wonder how many people will scream bloody murder when the re-release of Episode I comes and the puppet is gone. They have already gone in and replaced it with the AOTC/ROTS CG Yoda. They aren't going to replace the OT puppet as they tried to make the CG one look like that puppet in the first place.

 

[jett]

I don't think anyone is going to give a shit if George Lucas makes changes in TPM.

 

[swoon]

1. The Empire Strikes Back
2. A New Hope
3. Attack of the Clones
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Phantom Menace

yes, you read that right.

yea that's mine. return of the jedi is a fucking awful film.

 

[border]

CG always looks fake. I don't think there's ever been a CG character where you weren't constantly being reminded of its phoniness. They just don't look right in the frame.

A good puppet can be far more convincing, so I tend to prefer them much more.

 

[Seth C]

CG always looks fake. I don't think there's ever been a CG character where you weren't constantly being reminded of its phoniness. They just don't look right in the frame.

A good puppet can be far more convincing, so I tend to prefer them much more.

Don't forget that real sets of tables and chairs are far more convincing than CG sets of tables and chairs!

 

[Kon Tiki]

Don't forget that real sets of tables and chairs are far more convincing than CG sets of tables and chairs!

That would be a witty post if it were not for personification.