diunxx
Member
But most of Star Wars is C-tier sci-fi, including the god awful prequel trilogy, the incredibly shitty third movie and the mediocre tv shows, TLJ was better written and more fun than 90% of Star Wars media out there.
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Lucasfilm desperately needs new leadership
- Thread starter EviLore
- Start date
AJUMP23
Gold Member
Move to France.
Umbasaborne
Banned
Disney it’s self hasn’t released a box office hit since 2019. The magic is dead
AJUMP23
Gold Member
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
Ghana better
Ammogeddon
Member
KK getting the boot would be the biggest thing to happen to Lucasfilm since Disney acquired them.
If I was in charge I would suspend all projects and map out the studios future lineup.
I would probably scrap all Star Wars projects, save for Andor which was decent, and finishes after S2 anyway. Mando would be taken back to the drawing board. Obviously I can’t comment on Ahsoka but I’d likely make changes after Season 1.
In the short term I’d focus on at least one lower budget, character driven story set in the OT era.
The flagship would be a movie trilogy with the same writers and directors for all 3. I’d set it several hundred years after the ST in a galactic dark age and ditch the rule of 2 for the Sith.
Here’s the controversial bit. I’d reboot Indiana Jones into a big budget limited TV series. Harrison Ford was a perfect Indy but I don’t accept he cannot be replaced.
If I was in charge I would suspend all projects and map out the studios future lineup.
I would probably scrap all Star Wars projects, save for Andor which was decent, and finishes after S2 anyway. Mando would be taken back to the drawing board. Obviously I can’t comment on Ahsoka but I’d likely make changes after Season 1.
In the short term I’d focus on at least one lower budget, character driven story set in the OT era.
The flagship would be a movie trilogy with the same writers and directors for all 3. I’d set it several hundred years after the ST in a galactic dark age and ditch the rule of 2 for the Sith.
Here’s the controversial bit. I’d reboot Indiana Jones into a big budget limited TV series. Harrison Ford was a perfect Indy but I don’t accept he cannot be replaced.
pel1300
Member
Has anyone seen many kids liking the sequel trilogy?
I feel that the ST is the least kid friendly of all SW movies. So much of it is meta commentary (almost 4th wall breaking) that most kids won't understand wtf is going on unless they happen to be hardcore SW fans.
Yeah the prequels had some boring senate hearing scenes, but I remember kids enjoying them.
Maybe I'm wasting my time w/ this question here because online, I hear ST defenders say that everyone in their personal life loves The Last Jedi and that it's only online that they see the hate. It's like we live in completely different realities.
I feel that the ST is the least kid friendly of all SW movies. So much of it is meta commentary (almost 4th wall breaking) that most kids won't understand wtf is going on unless they happen to be hardcore SW fans.
Yeah the prequels had some boring senate hearing scenes, but I remember kids enjoying them.
Maybe I'm wasting my time w/ this question here because online, I hear ST defenders say that everyone in their personal life loves The Last Jedi and that it's only online that they see the hate. It's like we live in completely different realities.
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Kacho
Member
My kids friends who are into Star Wars only like the OT and PT
pel1300
Member
There's a good video on youtube about how formerly trusted movie review channels such as Collider and Screenjunkies killed their reputations by shilling for Disney SW, leading to the rise of newer independent movie review channels like The Critical Drinker, Geeks & Gamers, Nerdrotic, Clownfish tv, etc, while some older review channels like Jeremy Jahns were able to remain honest and still have a good following today.
I could post it, but it might be too political as one of its main topics is the cancellation of Andy Signore (Honest Trailers creator)
I could post it, but it might be too political as one of its main topics is the cancellation of Andy Signore (Honest Trailers creator)
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DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Or they stole ideas and retconned them into something far worse than the original works.
Then Zahn had to write a "canon" book on his creation. Probably went something like this in the process,
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chromhound
Member
Fixed. Just like old times
Tams
Member
No.
The prequel trilogy has a mediocre story, though it is engaging enough, the casting of Anakin was wrong, and the dialogue dire, but it has lots to merit it. The cast are otherwise great, and the CGI fantastic for the time.
TLJ is not just boring, but shit in many ways. The story is one boring film long space chase about fuel with a side quest that goes nowhere, and the actors are shit apart from Carrie Fischer, Mark Hamill, and John Boyega.
LRKD
Member
Personally, I hope she stays in charge, or they replace her with someone worse. I LOVED Star Wars, but everything under Disney has been bad. It's way past time to move on from Star Wars. People need to wake up and move on. Let's be real it's just glorified corporate fan fiction anyways without George Lucas, and if you going to read fan fiction you might as well just go read fan fiction from actual fans on archiveofourown or something lmfao.
I'm ready for a brand-new sci-fi universe with none of the baggage of being Star Wars.
I'm ready for a brand-new sci-fi universe with none of the baggage of being Star Wars.
Darkmakaimura
Member
She's a "strong woman" so they won't get rid of her. They'll be too afraid of the Twitter mob if they do.
Salz01
Member
Maybe they threw her a bone, and wrote the part of naming Indy after the dog, or ’Junior’.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Exchanging Kennedy will do nothing. There are bigger forces at play here, especially within Disney.
Lord Panda
The Sea is Always Right
Good news is that Twitter isn't what it used to be. Thanks Elon.
Pilgrimzero
Member
Clone Wars and Rebels is some damn fine stuff.
The Ahsoka v Vader fight in Rebels is top tier. So is her last battle with Maul in Clone Wars.
But yeah I mostly agree with OP.
The Ahsoka v Vader fight in Rebels is top tier. So is her last battle with Maul in Clone Wars.
But yeah I mostly agree with OP.
Nydius
Member
Came here to write exactly this but
Tams
beat me to it.The Prequels have problems. A lot of problems. But they're leagues better than TLJ, or the haphazard sequel trilogy entirely. At least the Prequels knew what story they were trying to tell, even if there was a lot of flawed execution and Lucas heavyhanding the special effects because he could. The sequel trilogy had no fucking clue what story it wanted to tell. It begins with a lukewarm rehash of Episode 4, then goes into some meandering slow speed space chase where they completely abandon everything they had been building up with Finn, then closes with fan fiction to try and recapture box office receipts. All three movies were complete messes that even the strong acting of past leads couldn't carry. The sequels, and especially TLJ, were a bunch of concepts thrown against the wall to see what stuck.
Toons
Member
I disagree on a variety of thecontent quality opinions which is fine, but that doesn't really matter either way, what matters is this:
Disney bought Lucasfilm six years ago today and has already recouped its $4 billion investment
Disney bought Lucasfilm six years ago in a deal worth $4.05 billion and has already made back that investment with four Star Wars feature films that have grossed more than $4.8 billion at the box office.
www.google.com
Most of Disney's money doesn't come from the box office. Never has. Their money comes from merch sales. Its why in this season of almost everything doing disappointing numbers this won't hurt them much
And frankly, what exciting things was Lucasfilm doing prior to the buyout? Aside from clone wars, lucas wasn't doing anything interesting with the brand and it was bleeding cash and sitting on tons of potential that wasn't being used.
Star wars is in a better place right now than it has been for the last 25 years, because even if you dislike the main movie stuff theres still SOMETHING you'll probably like.
Toons
Member
You're correct, even with its flaws its far better crafted than any of the prequels. Better dialogue better acting and better visuals.
Toons
Member
Lol. The entire cast of the PT is phoning it in except for Ewan.
Adam driver out acted the entirety of the PT within 5 minutes of screen time... and daily ridley delivers a string performance as well.
A movie being about a chase or not doing make it bad, fury road is one long change scene, 12 angry men takes place entirely in one room... premise alone doesnt determine a films quality.
I saw a post earlier in the thread actually LAMENTING that the film tried to be intelligent instead of just being a shooty shooty space thing... is this really what we've stopped to? Preferring the latter over the former?
I will always reward ambition over lack of substance, even if the execution is flawed. I could honestly go on forever in this thread because I've analyzed these movies a lot, but its not necessary.
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Slicker than your average
Banned
Well guys we have the new star was trilogy already in this thread. See the above three posts. It's called the defence force saga.
Toons
Member
That saga is also better than the prequels though
Apologies for the triple posting though.
But seriously. Yall picking the prequels over this?
This is the best sequence of dialogue I've ever seen from ANYTHING star wars.
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They’re not phoning it in. It’s not the most gripping, emotional style, sure, but that’s a choice too. Lucas is a stoic guy and the prequels were full of politics, senators, royalty, soldiers, and Jedi. The world was more put together, in contrast with the OT’s time period.
Lucas took cues from Ancient Rome, too, on several levels. Our perceptions of that time are shaped from philosophers, generals, historians, emperors. Not spazzy hyper-emotional teenagers on TikTok who throw temper tantrums.
The sequel trilogy is shallow and superficial, more exciting moment to moment but with nothing of substance to show for it.
The prequels have serious problems but they also do a lot to expand Star Wars beyond just retreading the original trilogy. Lucas took risks to build something new, and that worldbuilding is infinitely better than the SQ.
LordCBH
Member
The worst offender of the sequels to me was TFA. A soulless rehash of a much better movie. Rise is an infinitely worse film sure, but it’s hard for me to dislike it as much as TFA when I had zero expectations of Rise being good in the first place.
I didn’t mind TLJ much, but what pissed me off was Rise just going a complete different direction with no build up or anything. Just “hey lol here’s the emperor again.”
The entire movie just felt like they made a ton of drastic changes when people didn’t like the movie before it, when it should’ve just run with it. I was looking forward to Rey and Kylo fighting it out, but instead they had to be lazy and just shoehorn Palpatine in it. Though I’m always happy to see Ian McDiarmid ham it up as the character.
I didn’t mind TLJ much, but what pissed me off was Rise just going a complete different direction with no build up or anything. Just “hey lol here’s the emperor again.”
The entire movie just felt like they made a ton of drastic changes when people didn’t like the movie before it, when it should’ve just run with it. I was looking forward to Rey and Kylo fighting it out, but instead they had to be lazy and just shoehorn Palpatine in it. Though I’m always happy to see Ian McDiarmid ham it up as the character.
Tams
Member
You can't even work her name right.
And she's completely wooden. Even JJ Abrams said so. Notice how she's done nothing of note since? Terrible actress.
Toons
Member
Sorry for the length but I appreciate this take and want to address it a bit
The premise of the PT is great i agee with that. But I dont feel Lucas does anything great with the setup. The clone wars cartoon uses its setting much, much better and actually explores the politics of multiple worlds and how they are affected. Even the bad batch shos does this better. The actual movies spend way too much time trying to force us to like anakin and, in the process, doing the opposite. Hes stronger than most of the cast out of the gate(which is fine but), his romance is forced and cringey, and his bond with kenobi is underbaked and only matters in the last hour of the last movie. And the stoic performances would be totally fine if the movies themselves didn't feel agnostic to what was happening... again until the last hour which id the beat stuff in the trilogy.
Each of the trilogies are build primarily around a single relationship. For the ot its luke and Vader. For the pt its anankin and kenobi. For the st its Rey and kylo. One thing the ST does is understand this hierarchy and what is the meat of the content being featured. The PT shoves the primary bond that centers the whole thing into the background until the very end. The ST does the opposite which makes the rest of it feel less depthful, but the primary thing is at least delivered upon.
Yes. The ST is much smaller in scale and scope but it's focus is also more acute. Even if the story beats dont totally line up it remains consistent on developing this relationship between the two leads and the actual star wars are the backdrop. I think the character development is far more depthful because of this and the changes they go through are tangible.
In the PT, everything just kinda happens around anakin, and the plot is driven by how he reacts. The rest of the cast dies nothing save for qui gon and kenobi in movie 1. In AOTC, they try to give kenobi something but ultimately it goes nowhere other than go lead him back to anakin for one last big fight scene. And you could say the same for Finn in TLJ except Finn at least undergoes a character change. Obi Wan enters and exists the movie the exact same character. We get exposition but the character himself has little reaction to this. Darth maul is there for no reason other than to die, which is fine if you actually make the big bad interesting. We are told dooku lost faith in the jedi and turned in between films, but we don't see any of that conflict , he is just cartoonishly evil upon introduction. The villains just don't have any depth in the trilogy, and the heroes are trapped in this endless cycle of procedure and debating about nonsense for most of the screen time, and it makes the jedi as a whole seem ineffective in the wrong ways, until a fight scene happens(and I understand the jedi being in effective is a plot point, but you have to have them at least trying something, otherwise there's no reason or anyone to believe anyone would back these folks in the first place).
So yeah my main thing is that the PT squanders the massive premise it promises, while the ST offers much less to chew on but it at least tries to he interesting with what is there. Dont get me wrong though, I appreciate all of them . I'm a huge star wars nerd and ill watch anything the franchise puts out even if i don't care for it.
Toons
Member
She's not wooden at all lol.
Pointing our a typo isn't an argument.
And who cares what JJ Abrams thinks about an acting performance lol?
None of the star wars leads have had major massive careers post star wars. Not Hamill, not ridley and certainly not Hayden, who disappeared entirely only to come back in Kenobi... and still not be great.
Sure she's getting outplayed by driver here but she's still a better actor than Hayden, and also better than a lot of Hamill stuff except for ESB and a few bits in ROTJ. Hes pretty meh in ANH, but thats probably Lucas directing him that way. TLJ proved his acting chops which we really hadn't seen the extent of before.
A decent director makes a world of a difference in an actors performance and RJ is ten times the director JJ Abrams is. Twenty times.
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Toons
I agree with a lot of your PT complaints, and I’ve basically never said anything positive about these movies until the ST came out. Now, looking back and rewatching them for the first time in a very long time, I get what they’re going for a lot more, and I’m not full of vitriol about it. Especially with the ST and D+ material to compare it to. Especially now…
Lucas wasn’t the best choice to direct, and a better fit there would’ve improved many scenes and performances, yes, but even then, he got a lot right, like pushing for all the actors’ training for the fight choreography, great scores, cutting edge tech that was like nothing ever filmed before, and the massive contrast between the republic in its days of plenty and the empire under decline and tyranny.
He did succeed in creating a vivid and ambitious scifi/fantasy world that took risks. He didn’t make the universe revolve around a handful of characters, and instead made the world exist on its own. So that’s why it feels like things happen and this story about Anakin doesn’t revolve around Anakin for most of the runtime. Really, it still does, but there’s a lot of worldbuilding supporting it.
Hollywood only ever remakes things 1:1 with a fresh coat of paint, with few exceptions. The PT is something different. It’s not the lightning in a bottle of the OT, but I can appreciate what it did.
Darkmakaimura
Member
I love the prequel trilogy despite some of its flaws. I also like how both different it was and also feels the same as the original trilogy of Star Wars.
We had new ships and new planets and lots of other colorful environments. Coruscant was like a dream come true.
Look at the sequel trilogy and there's almost nothing new. It's the same old ships and same old everything and it's just feels so boring. I hated that there was very little emphasis on aliens and everything was done by human beings the almost.
We had new ships and new planets and lots of other colorful environments. Coruscant was like a dream come true.
Look at the sequel trilogy and there's almost nothing new. It's the same old ships and same old everything and it's just feels so boring. I hated that there was very little emphasis on aliens and everything was done by human beings the almost.
ReBurn
Gold Member
The sequel trilogy was just lazy storytelling all around. Rey is the embodiment of a Mary Sue character and the way they doubled down on it in TLJ and Rise of Skywalker was disappointing. If a female lead is what they wanted it could have still been possible if they had stuck to Star Wars canon as it existed when Disney purchased it. Either Mara Jade or Jaina Solo would have been a more believable anchor for sequel movies.
The retcon wasn't necessary. It felt like they just wanted to destroy what Han Solo and Luke Skywalker were for no good reason.
The retcon wasn't necessary. It felt like they just wanted to destroy what Han Solo and Luke Skywalker were for no good reason.
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Lunarorbit
Member
I'd reimagine the first 6 star wars movies as if the clone wars had other clones besides Jango fett.
It's unfortunate for my vision that secret invasion is happening right now as Palpatine would still be pulling the strings and trying to purge jedi. The jedi would be the only ones to be able to sense a clone so they are targeted.
It'd be animated too. And Vader lives and willingly becomes a prisoner to get to know luke.
Kennedy needs to go.
It's unfortunate for my vision that secret invasion is happening right now as Palpatine would still be pulling the strings and trying to purge jedi. The jedi would be the only ones to be able to sense a clone so they are targeted.
It'd be animated too. And Vader lives and willingly becomes a prisoner to get to know luke.
Kennedy needs to go.
Tams
Member
Daneel Elijah
Gold Member
I liked her a lot in murder on the orient express.
kunonabi
Member
Diasy is fine she's just saddled with awful material. It wasn't really until the later parts of TFA that she became insufferable.
Hayden isn't a bad actor either he just struggled with Lucas being so hands off and he didn't have the experience to lift the material up like Mcdiarmid and McGregor could. His physical acting and expressions were excellent which is most likely why Lucas chose him.
Hayden isn't a bad actor either he just struggled with Lucas being so hands off and he didn't have the experience to lift the material up like Mcdiarmid and McGregor could. His physical acting and expressions were excellent which is most likely why Lucas chose him.
Meicyn
Gold Member
I think this is an unfair assessment of that movie given the context of its creation.
The Force Awakens was made the way it was because of the prequel trilogy. The internet was full of vitriol over George Lucas and how he had “ruined Star Wars”. The Red Letter Media Star Wars review trilogy of the prequels were must-watch and became legendary, and so it isn’t any wonder that when it was time to make a new trilogy, they needed to make the audiences feel like Star Wars was getting a “fresh start” and was going back to its roots. So they aped Episode 4 and brought back old cast. It was a brilliant move because it rekindled interest in Star Wars.
The Last Jedi on the other hand, I have almost nothing but contempt for. It felt like such a mean-spirited movie undermining the previous film. I will never forget how Rian Johnson took the potentially interesting premise of a Storm Trooper turned good and doing all this heroic shit and having force sensitivity leaving the door open for him to be another jedi, and just upending Finn’s character into being the resident cowardly minstrel played for laughs. Some of the most low-key racist shit I’ve seen in awhile and it’s infuriating watching Rian get a pass for it. I feel terrible for John Boyega, Rian did him dirty. He did the whole sequel trilogy dirty by making a film that let him pat himself on the back for how clever he was via subverting expectations, leaving nothing to work with for the third film.
Hayden gets a lot better in Episode 3 and in other films he’s totally fine. In Ep 2, in fairness, the character is supposed to be an awkward, inexperienced adolescent would-be monk/samurai stoic exploring romantic feelings for the first time and stumbling through it all, but Hayden doesn’t quite pull it off convincingly. That’s on George.
You’re right that his physical acting is great though and he and Ewan are legendary for the training they did to pull off the final duel. Only a handful of actors have gone that far for action scenes.
Honestly, it’s a shame that the fandom has targeted actors over the years, like Jake Lloyd, who played his part well and didn’t deserve to have his life ruined.
Daisy is fine too. Not her fault she’s written as a Mary Sue.
thismeinteil
Member
Small correction for the OP, while TLJ did profit, it didn't exactly perform well. Underperformed actually. After it opened just slightly under TFA, the projections for the final take were $1.8B+ WW. After its massive drop in the 2nd weekend, the projections were changed to $1.5B+ WW. It ended up doing $1.33B. It's legs just weren't very good.
But, yea, Lucasfilm, and really Disney, need better management. Will they get it? Probably not for awhile. They'd rather push some dumb narrative then actually tell interesting stories. And that goes all the way up to the top.
But, yea, Lucasfilm, and really Disney, need better management. Will they get it? Probably not for awhile. They'd rather push some dumb narrative then actually tell interesting stories. And that goes all the way up to the top.
NekoFever
Member
I watched it for the first time since the theatre a couple of weeks ago.
One thing I'd forgotten is that it's one of the ugliest blockbuster movies I can remember. It's got all these great, vibrant, colourful locations but everything looks uniformly grey because they took the modern trend for shooting everything without a lighting department as the DP has a hard-on for the low light performance of modern digital cameras and ran with it.
Just look at this shit. It looks like ungraded log footage. Someone at a Hollywood studio looked at this and thought it was fine.
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Slicker than your average
Banned
Also why does no one discuss the absurd insanity of star killer base. I know it was some pathetic attempt to one up the death star but come the fuck on. Ignoring the fact that a secret organisation that the republic doesn't know about is running around doing evil things. Where would they get that manpower, money and expertise to build a weapon like that.
But a laser than can shoot from one star system to another and hit the target within minutes is insane. The laser would need to be travelling several thousand times to the speed of light, yet we see light streak across the sky lmao.
Man TFA is so fucking bad, no wonder it got worse and worse.
Andor is the best thing that's come out of Disney, everything else is trash.
But a laser than can shoot from one star system to another and hit the target within minutes is insane. The laser would need to be travelling several thousand times to the speed of light, yet we see light streak across the sky lmao.
Man TFA is so fucking bad, no wonder it got worse and worse.
Andor is the best thing that's come out of Disney, everything else is trash.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
I remember back in the day I don't remember if it was here or that other place. We had some hardcore zealots that would defend TLJ with such fanaticism and ferociousness that it was quite impressive. I always wonder about fanatics and how their minds work. I'm glad that for most part everyone now recognizes how shit the sequel trilogy actually is.
DoctorEkkoUK
Member
To me it feels like any success SW has had since she took control has been despite her rather than because of her. I think most hardcore SW fans have been hoping for her exit for years at this point but apparently she made some kind of blood magic deal with the devil to be the untouchable head of Star Wars forever. No point dwelling on it, she feeds off our misery.
Toons
Member
No, she really doesn't. Lol.
I like tlj because I like quality performances and well shot action scenes, strong dialogue and visuals. You dont because... something definitely other than whatever you're posting here, like name typos.