Ass of Can Whooping
Gold Member
Is anyone else super surprised that DarkMage619 has a problem with it? Or is it just me?
Are you suggesting he might be a fanboy? That would be impossible since he owns all platforms.
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Is anyone else super surprised that DarkMage619 has a problem with it? Or is it just me?
So ? The sarcastic reply is likely a response to people DM'ing him with stupid commentary. You don't write a reply like that without anything provoking it.
How about the disingenuous "this will hurt publishers/developers" BS that is repeated ad nauseum?I don't think gamers are upset about the trial thing itself, in an ideal case every game on every platform should either have a free trial, or a trial window in which they can safely refund the game.
This being kept behind a pay wall is what seems to be the problem, or at least that's the way I'm reading it.
How about the disingenuous "this will hurt publishers/developers" BS that is repeated ad nauseum?
Nonsense. He doesn't address that sarcastic tweet to DMs or even suggest they were in response to DMs. It wasn't a "reply" at all as it was addressed to absolutely no one.
I fucking knew it.Hurt ? Probably not 'hurt' but I can foresee some people choosing not to buy a game after the 2 hr trial that they might have bought otherwise. I know because I've done that a few times with EA Play trials.
But annoy them for sure, even Matt thinks so and he's probably in a better position than most to make comments like that.
Can all PlayStation users benefit from these 'forced' trials or are they behind a paywall? Just like anyone can use Sony's game save cloud storage you just have to pay for it.And Sony charges zero money for trials.
They’re forcing developers to implement a trial system but they aren’t limiting that to subscribers.
If anyone without premium subs cannot get the trial - that’s the publishers decision, not Sony.
But the pubs have no excuse - the system will be implemented because Sony insisted it is implemented.
Oh and streaming - lol. See you in 20 years.
The gamer! We care most about the gamer and here the gamer is paying for a trial access. This also might cost money to the devs too if they arent compensated for that access.They don't cost money to who? The dev\publisher? Or the gamer?
Pretty succinctly put. Sure it's a value to have some trials added but as Matt Piscatella stated it might cause some pushback from publishers. As long as Sony is doing all the heavy lifting and publishers are compensated for the access they are granting to the paying PS gamers, people are completely able to pay for this trial access. I still hope this forced participation doesn't become a thing beyond Sony's platform.Y'all keep changing what the active discussion point is so frequently.
From what I can see the two main points are that 1/ the trials are locked behind the highest tier and the lower tiers get nothing and 2/ forced trials would probably piss off publishers.
For point 2, the comparison with EA Play is still a bit irrelevant as EA Play trials are EA's choice on their own published games, they're not making every publisher to do that.
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The one remedy for point 2 is that/if Sony is taking full ownership of creating 'trial' time gates on games and letting people download them and locking after the two hour is over, but that still leaves the other issue of this being locked behind the highest tier of their sub service. Value adding, yes, but they're basically locking demos behind a paywall no matter how anyone wants to paint it.
Saved me from buying 2042Hurt ? Probably not 'hurt' but I can foresee some people choosing not to buy a game after the 2 hr trial that they might have bought otherwise. I know because I've done that a few times with EA Play trials.
But annoy them for sure, even Matt thinks so and he's probably in a better position than most to make comments like that.
I haven't trusted this dude since he tried to push the narrative that Gamepass makes people buy more games. I'll never believe this shit, doesn't make any sense to me, so he just came off as very untrustworthy pushing PR spins.
He got relevant by supposedly being a guy that would just put out numbers but turns out he is most likely a paid shill.
I thought about writing "but then we're gonna ask him to prove it by posting pics of his DMs" but let it go, should have added that in lol.
Again, you don't write a sarcastic/witty reply like that almost half an hour after the initial tweet unless something prompts it. People generally don't tend to do that.
I fucking knew it.
Saved me from buying 2042
Now think why is behind a paywall and why on the other site we have people saying poor devs… while the devs are saying this is bad!The more I think of this the more I hate it. It is Sony requiring demos but using that to entice people into buying their service which is something that actually competes with publishers of games not on the service. I think demos are great and should be available to all potential customers because if they are on the fence, they are more likely to give you a couple of hours to try out your game then they are to plop down 70 bucks. It should be a win-win, but instead it is being kept behind a paywall.
There's a 28~ minute gap between his original tweet with the news and him saying this will receive pushback from publishers and the next tweets where he's sarcastically saying 'but please tell me how publishers work'. 28 minutes may as well be an eternity on twitter.
EA Play's trials are 10 hours long, and they're on the lower tier of their subscription service, and essentially bundled in 'free' with game pass ultimate, and their higher tier straight up gives full access to the game.
This (PS Now) trial feature is relegated to the highest tier of their sub service and the two lower tiers are shit out of luck.
I don't know if he started it, but he is the one that gave credibility to it, given that people assumed he was looking at the numbers and not just taking them for a PR spin.
You're telling me Matt stated that GamePass™ encourages gamers to buy "MORE" games, yet this new PS+ Premium feature will be bad for publishers and devs? HOW?! How can the same person hold both points of view?
You're telling me Matt stated that GamePass™ encourages gamers to buy "MORE" games, yet this new PS+ Premium feature will be bad for publishers and devs? HOW?! How can the same person hold both points of view?
The BOLDED is a good thing for publishers and developers. So what's the problem now?
The PS+ Premium trials will be 10 hours long if the publisher of the game decides so. They must be at least 2 hours but the publisher is free to decide its length.EA Play trials are 10 hours long too.
It helps them earn more money from high spender playrs with no extra cost/work for them and at a very low risk. It has been explained to you multiple times in this thread.But I'm not fully getting how gatekeeping trials behind the higher end of their tier subscription is a good thing for either the publisher or developer.
It's called, gamer amnesia. Only pops up from tribe to tribe.I find it funny that some ppl just seemed to not know game trials are a thing right now, or how they even work.
Interesting.
Game Pass has historical data for a few years that shows the trends of people buying things while subscribed increasing compared to Xbox gamers who aren't subscribed to the service.
For this service, we don't have any point of reference like that so far. So we can't really compare them right now.
Besides that, the one big difference between what GP offers and what this is that you get full new releases on day 1, this is only promising trials.
So GP is mitigating the need for people to buy new games, since they're getting a lot of them day 1 anyway.
Apologies, I don't have actual written evidence for you yet so I only have my memory to go from as of now. From what I remember, Xbox 360 required them at launch as it was one of the features they advertised for the console's launch. I remember launch game achievements either being ridiculously easy or ridiculously hard until gears of war showed developers how to do them better. I remember trophies being added either late 2008 or 2009, right before the "It only does everything" slim rebrand and right after MGS4. I remember people begging Konami for trophies on this game specifically because it released so close to the launch of trophies.
I don't think gamers are upset about the trial thing itself, in an ideal case every game on every platform should either have a free trial, or a trial window in which they can safely refund the game.
This being kept behind a pay wall is what seems to be the problem, or at least that's the way I'm reading it.
The gamer! We care most about the gamer and here the gamer is paying for a trial access. This also might cost money to the devs too if they arent compensated for that access.
Pretty amazing, huh?Sony isn't forcing anybody to keep it locked behind the PS+ Premium paywall. Any publisher can allow it to every PS gamers for free if they choose to. It's up to the publisher to do that. Are you saying Sony is to blame because they aren't forcing every publisher to make all game shave 2 hour game trials for every PS gamer?
True. Similarly, I've sometimes jumped the gun and purchased the game only to realize that it wasn't for me. I think this will be a really good thing for gamers. And I've a feeling that Xbox will also adopt this or a similar feature if this works out for PlayStation -- which, again, would be fantastic for gamers.During the 360 days, I bought shit loads of XBLA and XBLIG because they had demos/trials. I probably bought 10 twin stick shooters on XBLIG alone. And believe it or not I'd say most of them I bought were better than Geometry Wars. Even though these games are dirt cheap it doesn't matter. I'm not rolling the dice on a potentially shit game even if it's only $5 or 400 Xbox pts back then. And same holds true now.
And the same hold true for bigger budget games. I'm not going to randomly buy a $60 game unless it's a tried and true kind of franchise (sequel-itis).
I've bought way fewer of these kinds of budget games since Xbox One because demos/trials are rare for these budget games now.
The 2 hour trial should be welcomed even more than back then because 360 demos you could play forever (although indie games were 10 minute timers). So a gamer who doesn't want to pay a dime buying a game could download and play 1000 games. 2 hr timers and only for some games gets a cheap gamer only so far.
True. Similarly, I've sometimes jumped the gun and purchased the game only to realize that it wasn't for me. I think this will be a really good thing for gamers. And I've a feeling that Xbox will also adopt this or a similar feature if this works out for PlayStation -- which, again, would be fantastic for gamers.
P.S. And the 2-hour timer is the minimum amount of time for the trial. These trials can currently go up to 6 hours.
Sony isn't forcing anybody to keep it locked behind the PS+ Premium paywall. Any publisher can allow it to every PS gamers for free if they choose to. It's up to the publisher to do that. Are you saying Sony is to blame because they aren't forcing every publisher to make all game shave 2 hour game trials for every PS gamer?
The paywall whining would look more genuine if this started months ago. We've known about these trials since last year
But where's muh sony gamepass was more important
Geez.....new information seems to be revealed all the time. Probably a good idea, at this point, to just wait for official word from Sony as to what is what in all this.
If you had bolded the line about all games having a free trial or trial window to refund, I would have been with you 110%.
But I'm not fully getting how gatekeeping trials behind the higher end of their tier subscription is a good thing for either the publisher or developer.
If it was even something like a few days or week(s) earlier access to day 1 games, that I can see as a legit value add, but this is basically locking free demos behind a paywall.
Everything from last years Schrier leaks was rumor and heresy until officially confirmed, it took a long while after the initial leaks for the PS Pass to be official as well, there was little point in people arguing about it back then, besides the PS Pass was the much bigger and more relevant news of the two at that point. So that's where most discussion went.
Nothing nefarious about it really.
Just like we are not paying for game save cloud storage only online play access? If you like this fine but I remain unconvinced that we should be paying for trial access. Like I said if devs are compensated for their forced participation people are free to pay if they are so inclined.The gamer is NOT paying for game demos. They are paying for the FULL PS+ Premium subscription. This is only one part of that subscription.
A trial shouldn't cost any money at all. Also unless Sony allows for streaming of these trial games it would be quite cumbersome to download a full 50+GB title to play it for 2 hours. This should be part of the baseline PS+ Essential at most.
For those complaining about demos being behind a paywall I ask you this!? Did you complained when online went behind a paywall with Microsoft? Or when Nintendo and Sony did it years after?
If you didn’t complain, congrats your are too late! The worse has already been done! Years ago!
I find it very odd that a guy who is a professional in the industry isn't asking more questions rather than expressing outright negativity and sarcasm with no more details about this than anyone else.
Very good points I didn't consider.Plus it's a legit value add because it'll give publishers and devs more bites at the apple to convert potential buyers into actual buyers. There are many times today where a publishers best time to pitch a game to gamers is on pre-order hype or the first few weeks the game comes out. But with this, they can create multiple waves of potential buyers. Plus, people need to realize that it's a 2 hour minimum. A publisher can make it longer if they like.
I didn't say it was good for consumers (my very first comment on this thread was as a playstation player, i would be very happy). I was highlighting the fact that there is a difference from a 2 hours playtime refund policy and a 2 hour trial where someone said they are the same thing. It is not.If I understand you correctly, you are talking about corporations preying on people being less likely to ask for a refund even if they don't like something.
How is that good for consumers?
With this route, the default is you can try before you commit to buying instead of having to put your money upfront. It is the same tactic corporations use when they offer free trials but you have to give them payment information because often people forget to cancel.
Free demos were rare and not wide-spread. Hell, most came with a paid for magazine on the rack or a subscription.I'd love for those same people to also tell me when we used to get demos for "free"? I've been playing video games since 1987/1988 when I was a young kid. I never got demos for "free".
For context, I only owned the following..........
- NES
- SNES
- Game Gear
- Sega Saturn
- PS1
- PS2
- PS3
- PS4
- PS5
My assumption is that Sony is using that PS Premium money and giving it to these publishers on a "Click through Purchase" type of way. GHG has done a great job showing us what it looks like with EA's game trials stuff. When the time runs out the gamer can quickly and easily purchase the game on the PS Store. Or they can buy it before the time runs out.
My hope is that he is asking questions behind doors but given my understanding of an analyst, I am not 100% sure that's in his roles and responsibilities. I would hope that other journalists are.
Either way, I don't think asking on twitter is probably going to be the way to get answers, I think it would have to be behind the scenes.
I remember my uncle buying magazines with tons of pc game demos disks.I'd love for those same people to also tell me when we used to get demos for "free"? I've been playing video games since 1987/1988 when I was a young kid. I never got demos for "free".
For context, I only owned the following..........
- NES
- SNES
- Game Gear
- Sega Saturn
- PS1
- PS2
- PS3
- PS4
- PS5
We could get into the conversation about the fact that twitter accounts are used for both professional and personal opinions and the whole "these opinions are my own" .He says in later tweets he is reacting to the same article posted in this thread. I'm not saying he should be investigating. He isn't a journalist. As a professional in the industry, however, I think if he is going to say anything then he should be reserving judgement until the information is officially released. I would think NPD would rather appear neutral.
We could get into the conversation about the fact that twitter accounts are used for both professional and personal opinions and the whole "these opinions are my own" .
Edited cause he does basically repeat my position.