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Sony president wants to improve margins on their multi-platform releases (Updated w/ analysis)

Now it's worse... ecosystem or streaming wars beings.
Agreed (on the premise, not it being worse).

Console wars look to be coming to an end (there will be a few resistance fighters for a few years, so it won't be over for a while) but gaming will go on, and hopefully the wars over content producers will be less intense when everyone can play everything anywhere... Let's go. Almost time to hug it out. Hopefully Microsoft are bold tomorrow in their new strategy...
 
how the fuck is any of this good for gaming?

play everything everywhere? miss me with that crap. it will water down products and reduce quality. These devs cant even get non broken games out on ONE platform, now they will have to make multiple versions, stretching themselves out further.

and you're championing for more live service GAAS trash?

how is ANY of this good? It shocks me how a gaming enthusiast can liek this news lmao

If PC ports mean Sony can sustain AAA gaming which is currently on an unsustainable path and if GaaS can maintain their revenue throughout the year when they don't have individual releases, so they can take their time with their releases, I'm all for it.

I don't have to play the GaaS games and games releasing on PC has no impact on me.
 

Topher

Gold Member
Imagine being this emotionally invested for brand cuckholding.

Think he will be posting tomorrow?

Will Smith Reaction GIF
 

Fabieter

Member
I guess we have to wait and see what that strategy really is first. We really don't even know what this interim CEO guy is proposing.

He needs to have a podcast.......next week.

Trying Not To Laugh Rooster Teeth GIF by Achievement Hunter

Less freedom at their studios and less exclusives is a safe bet.
 
Isn't Helldivers 2 Sony's most successful (EDIT: PC) launch? Take the lesson here, Sony. All of these companies are coming to the same conclusion...closed boxes can no longer support the cost of modern AAA game development.
 
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I blame 3 things.

1. People demanding 30+ hour, long ass games. Laughing and criticizing games that are less than 8 hours. No matter the quality.

2. Little fucking kids ruining gaming with their love of GAAS trash. Leading companies to lean further into the fortnite model.

3. MS training people to literally think buying games you like is BAD.

We are absolutely fucked.
Yeah, I've got to say that I've never understood why people want games that are 30+ hours. Almost anything that has a main story longer than 15 hours and I'm out. With maybe a couple of exceptions, a lot of the content is filler and a waste of my time.
 
how the fuck is any of this good for gaming?

play everything everywhere? miss me with that crap. it will water down products and reduce quality. These devs cant even get non broken games out on ONE platform, now they will have to make multiple versions, stretching themselves out further.

and you're championing for more live service GAAS trash?

how is ANY of this good? It shocks me how a gaming enthusiast can liek this news lmao
No one's championing for 'trash' of any kind.

Gaming can become much bigger when barriers to entry are torn down. No one buys one box to watch Netflix, and another to watch to watch HBO. Even Apple TV+, from the kings of the walled garden, is available everywhere.

It's even further advanced in music - you get either Spotify, Apple Music or whatever service, and get everything you need.

And it looks very much like a version of the above is coming to gaming. And not before time.
 

Neofire

Member
Maybe? No way to know. My point is that it is not factual to say PC ports caused Xbox's demise. People need to stop saying it is.
The data says otherwise, the 360 was a force and fast forward to the Xbox one gen(when pc games started to release day and date) unit sales tanked like crazy. Hell the general census of PC players is "why buy an Xbox" and they are right lol. Why buy one when everything is coming to.their preferred platform.

To be blunt, let's not spread misnomers like Xbox games going to PC kept the brand afloat because that is categorically false. Microsoft's Trillon dollar machine is doing that, something Sony does not and will never have.
 

IDWhite

Member
If you think Sony moving to multiplatform (it already is) would effect console sales you are off your absolute head and live in fantasy.

If you can have cross save between your PC and console and you dont own one or the other, it makes the other more appealing as you dont lose what you have on your original platform.

Not only that but your bros arent going to stop dropping cash on PS consoles if thats where their friends are and they dont care about PC gaming.

They do affect console sales. But not only that, they will lose control and profit over sales and services. And no, this is not fantasy.
If they continue relasing console exclusives on PC many people will inevitably migrate to it. Because not everyone has the need to go where their friends are or have his library on the same device, account, etc. No everyone has problems with game install and configuration on PC. And they are going to have PS, Xbox games and many other PC exclusives on one system.

Sure, the PC is more complex and more expensive at first, but you don't have to pay for online services or limit yourself to what Sony and its developers offer you. And, of course, you can do much more than play.

We are going to let time pass to see how Ps5 sales are going to be lower than those of Ps4, and how PS Plus subscriptions stagnate and decrease to exchange them for a few million more sales on PC from which they do not obtain the same percentage of profit and criticism.
 
Maybe the Marvel licenses aren't worth the damn money, Sony. Maybe the Hollywood writers and VAs aren't worth the asking price, either.

Their current drop in gaming profits is down to budget and licensing costs, but if they get too aggressive with multiplatform releases they're going to make demand for PlayStation consoles decline the same way Microsoft made demand for Xbox consoles decline. And PlayStation hardware is where Sony have complete control of the vertical stack; unless they have plans for PS Store on platforms like PC where that is where they prioritize PC releases, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

The key things Sony need to address with software development:

1: Costs. Trim down the fat leading to AAA games costing $350+ million going forward because that apparently isn't sustainable. Cut out the crappy consulting agencies that just want to collect fees while making work less creative. Cut back on the amount of Hollywood writers who in some cases aren't worth anywhere near their prices. Cut back on the Marvel licenses especially if the MCU continues to suck ass at the BO. And get more experimental with AI solutions to parts of the development pipeline.

2: Budget Variety. You need AA games, Sony. Not everything 1P-wise needs to be AAA $200 million-a-pop epics. Bring back your Parappas, your Ape Escapes, your Locorocos, your Dark Clouds, your Jet Motos and keep them sensibly budgeted. $20 - $50 million per game, tops. If you took some of that PC port money and put here instead, you'd get better numbers.

3: Mobile > PC. It's crazy how much Sony are prioritizing PC for multiplatform growth and not mobile, when there is both MUCH more money in mobile, AND there's less risk in devaluing the value perception of your own console that way. Literally just take the Nintendo approach, with mobile-centric spinoffs of IP like MLB The Show, Rachet & Clank, etc. And do a bit like Apple did with the Fantasian game in Apple Arcade, for something like a Legend of Dragoon or Dark Cloud. Some of these games you could even release on the console and PC as well.

I dunno. I still feel the current strategy is to prirotize GaaS for both console & PC Day 1 or at least so with most of those games. And while I think it's stupid, probably sticking to a 2-year window between console & PC for the non-GaaS titles. Really the window should be at least double that, but I'm worried Sony are forgetting that the console should always be at the center of the ecosystem experience, same mistake Microsoft made, and they aren't correcting for it before the rot begins to set in.

We'll get a better indication of what their strategy is for multiplatform support going forward. They just better hopefully be mindful that they aren't Microsoft; they aren't a $3 trillion megacorp whose gaming division is basically a write-off. Gaming is a core component for Sony and it's PlayStation consoles that are the center and biggest share of it.

Don't go forgetting that, Sony, or you'll regret making the same mistake as Xbox.
 

Hunnybun

Member
Selling games in a closed garden store like the PSN on console is where the money comes from. All those 3rd party games and DLC where Sony takes a 30% cut is where most of the money comes from. Not 1st party games. So the moment you stop focusing in giving reasons for ppl to buy more consoles, is the moment you start killing your business.

Apple makes a shitload of money from gaming and they dont make games. They own a closed garden store.

How do people find this so difficult to understand? You want your business to have as monopolistic a position as possible. Exclusive software from uniquely talented developers with great brands is a really good way to achieve such a position in the console space. Anything that undermines that is extremely risky.
 

hinch7

Member
Lol, guess they jumped on when MS got the brunt of it. Assuming we get even faster launches on PC.. PS5 may be my last traditional console.
 

wolffy66

Member
If PC ports mean Sony can sustain AAA gaming which is currently on an unsustainable path and if GaaS can maintain their revenue throughout the year when they don't have individual releases, so they can take their time with their releases, I'm all for it.

I don't have to play the GaaS games and games releasing on PC has no impact on me.
It really is unsustainable. These big games are such crazy gambles for the studios
 

aclar00

Member
Once the console dies what will become of "Playstation", the name and brand i mean? When i hear Playstation, i literally think of a station or console...cant call everything you play Sony games on Playstation. They might as well start rebranding everything PSN. Just become one of those products with an acronym that is really no longer an acronym.

Maybe im just old.
 
Also something to chew on: PC is NOT an open platform.

Yeah people say that a lot because you can swap in parts here and there, or run a bunch of different software and such. But let's really think about it. What companies own the most in the PC space?

Microsoft, Valve, Nvidia, Intel, and AMD. Microsoft owns the vast majority of PC OS market share, Valve owns the dominant storefront (any type) on PC, Nvidia and AMD (mainly Nvidia) dominate the GPU market, and Intel & AMD dominate the CPU market. But Valve, Nvidia, Intel, AND AMD's businesses heavily revolve around Windows, and who owns Windows? Yep, Microsoft.

If one company is who mainly sets the technical standards and specifications with their OS and kernel, their APIs, SDKs and so forth...how is PC exactly an "open" platform? You can mix and match some pieces of plastic and silicon here and there? You can do that with consoles, too, and we know they aren't open platforms.

The truth is, PC is only an "open" platform in idea, but in reality is effectively controlled by a singular corporation in each of the main areas. PC OS/kernel/OS APIs? Microsoft. CPU? Intel & AMD. GPU? Nvidia. Storefronts? Valve. And, Microsoft ultimately have the control in large aspects over all of these since everyone else is dependent on Windows for their customers.

Just keep that in mind when people keep trying to say PC is an "open" platform. It really isn't, not anymore.
 
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Midn1ght

Member
$300 million game budget.

This is the only metric that matters right now.

Big cinematic AAA game's budget have exploded in the last decade and keeping them exclusive is unsustainable regardless of how successful your console is.


A. Stop writing blank check to your darling studios and find ways to lower the cost (quality games yes but shorter).
B. Release these games shortly after or day one on multiple platforms to maximize your launch sale potential.
C. Make your console and subscription services appealing and not something that feels mandatory (online fee, raising console & game price, poor subscription offers, etc...)
 

Topher

Gold Member
The data says otherwise, the 360 was a force and fast forward to the Xbox one gen(when pc games started to release day and date) unit sales tanked like crazy. Hell the general census of PC players is "why buy an Xbox" and they are right lol. Why buy one when everything is coming to.their preferred platform.

To be blunt, let's not spread misnomers like Xbox games going to PC kept the brand afloat because that is categorically false. Microsoft's Trillon dollar machine is doing that, something Sony does not and will never have.

Just not true. Xbox One sales tanked long before they ported games to PC. Xbox One sales were so bad by 2015 that Microsoft lost the Call of Duty marketing rights to PlayStation. It wasn't until 2016 that Microsoft even announced their Play Anywhere initiative. So no, the data says exactly what I said: PC ports, factually, did not cause Xbox's demise.

And I did not say PC ports "kept the brand afloat" at all.
 
Once the console dies what will become of "Playstation", the name and brand i mean? When i hear Playstation, i literally think of a station or console...cant call everything you play Sony games on Playstation. They might as well start rebranding everything PSN. Just become one of those products with an acronym that is really no longer an acronym.

Maybe im just old.
PlayStation Studios… PlayStation+… PSN etc.

The path is 20th Century Fox ‘vs’ Paramount Pictures etc I think. With vs in quotes because they aren’t in direct competition like console manufacturers, just out to make as much money as possible and get as many people engaging with their content.
 

RoadHazard

Gold Member
So now that Xbox is probably going multiplat Sony is just gonna give away the huge advantage of having actual exclusives by not having any? Alright then.

Before anyone says that console sales aren't what's important anymore: No, they're not, but selling consoles (by giving people reasons to buy that console) is the only way for Sony to get all the revenue from people buying games and services in that ecosystem. Unless they're gonna create a Steam competitor I guess, which I don't see being very successful. Nobody wants yet another PC gaming storefront.
 
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Sy0lBwb.png

Here’s every single PS5 only game released from Nov 2020 to date.

You can subtract the ones we know are getting PC ports like Spider-Man, subtract the ones that aren’t actual AAA games like Astrobot and call of the mountain, subtract the ones that aren’t released yet like wolverine and DS2, and if you wanna be really strict you can subtract remakes like demon souls.

An absolutely pathetic amount is left. Just atrocious.
 
200.gif



I read that statement differently but who knows with translation.

I read it as him saying that was the case in the past, growing consoles but now they want to grow their 1st party games for more money

“In the past, we wanted to popularize console and the 1st party titles' main purpose was to make the console popular. It is true, but there is a synergy to it. So if you have strong first party content, not only with our console but also other platforms like computers, 1st party can be grown with multiplatform and that can help operating profit to improve. So that is another one we want to proactively work on.I personally think there are opportunities out there for improvement of margins, so I would like to go aggressive in improving our margin performance.”

Phil Spencer, Mike Ybarra, and Matty Booty circle jerking each other thought experiment emails rn
 

Ogbert

Member
Imagine the bank Sony would make releasing the spider-man games on all platforms.
Indeed.

But here’s the thing. It still might not be enough. The push to GaaS is the cynical conclusion of an industry that simply cannot survive on AAA games.

Sony has absolutely placed itself in a corner where being associated with exceptional graphical fidelity and cinematic spectacle comes at eye watering costs.

They want to move away from it.
 

Mr Moose

Member
Sy0lBwb.png

Here’s every single PS5 only game released from Nov 2020 to date.

You can subtract the ones we know are getting PC ports like Spider-Man, subtract the ones that aren’t actual AAA games like Astrobot and call of the mountain, subtract the ones that aren’t released yet like wolverine and DS2, and if you wanna be really strict you can subtract remakes like demon souls.

An absolutely pathetic amount is left. Just atrocious.
"If you add all of these variables, you see PlayStation as zero games!"
Damn, no wonder Xbox is fucked.
 

Ar¢tos

Member
Would Sony games, the big AAA ones, even make a decent profit on Xbox?
I can't imagine many Xbox players buying GT over Forza, or being interested in TLOU.
God of War maybe.
The GAAS games, sure, those is a good idea to release on Xbox and even Switch.
 
"If you add all of these variables, you see PlayStation as zero games!"
Damn, no wonder Xbox is fucked.
Do you have eyes? You don’t even need to add any variables. The list is pathetic as it is. It all fit on one screenshot on my iPhone 6.

The obvious point you somehow missed was the variables make it *EVEN* worse. Not just bad after adding them
 
No one's championing for 'trash' of any kind.

Gaming can become much bigger when barriers to entry are torn down. No one buys one box to watch Netflix, and another to watch to watch HBO. Even Apple TV+, from the kings of the walled garden, is available everywhere.

It's even further advanced in music - you get either Spotify, Apple Music or whatever service, and get everything you need.

And it looks very much like a version of the above is coming to gaming. And not before time.

And what is the barrier, exactly? When a lot of these same people are willing to spend hundreds of dollars on clothes they only wear twice their entire lives, shoes they don't even wear, Starbucks that eats up into thousands of dollars per year, and so forth...how is paying a few hundred bucks for a system that'll last them several years too much an asking price?

The technical peak with gaming in terms of immersion, hasn't been reached yet. Visually we are getting there, but in other aspects much more could be done. Technological innovations are the key in pushing immersion forward, but bog-standardizing the tech across the industry, effectively kills innovative advancements towards more immersion because everything suddenly has to be done at the industry level. Unique visions at companies partly spurred on by technological competition, dies. And whatever innovations or changes come about, are dictated by the companies with the deepest pockets, not the best ideas or implementations.

It's funny, because what you describe creates a false perception of a non-barrier for consumers, when it fact it just coalesces market control to a very small number of companies who, in this case, would be the ones with the absolute most money and likely already dominating with market control in other markets. And ultimately, as these companies have no real threats to usurp them, consumer choice worsens.

The "all games everywhere, "pro-consumer", future without boxes" gaming industry is actually the path to where gaming dies a creative death. We're like 50 years out from that type of reality existing naturally.

The war is already over. Microsoft waving the white flag allows Sony to focus on increasing revenue rather than worrying about marketshare.

I don't quite know about that. We don't "actually" know what Microsoft is doing, for starters, especially hardware-wise going forward.

But we'll see what Sony's plans are, in due time. Probably very soon, actually.
 
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RoadHazard

Gold Member
The war is already over. Microsoft waving the white flag allows Sony to focus on increasing revenue rather than worrying about marketshare.

But without market share Sony won't be making much money either. The big exclusives isn't what they make the most money from, it's services (PS+) and the cut they get from all games sold in their ecosystem. The exclusives are what brings people into that ecosystem. If they no longer have a compelling reason for people to be there, what are they gonna make money from? Just their own games (which are few and far between these days)? I foresee their total revenue going down in that scenario, not up.

MS is different, because they now own half the game publishing market, including a lot of high-revenue live service games.

If the answer in Sony's case is also "GaaS", count me the hell out.
 
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