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[winjer]

Alright guys I loaded up the Nsight, had to update it to some nightly build and it appears as tho, it's using actually both units. However based on profiler I am getting pretty significant load (around 20% on Tensor) while CUDA cores is around 50% utilized. This is paired by RAID0 of SN850 (1TB units, both load at 95%), made some benchmark with data from KC: D. I cannot really post it, or show it to you, both of these things are private property (and second one is in NDA, I can only say percent), but I am preparing visual benchmark when RTX IO went live in UE 5. Obviously I am trash at graphics, so it's going to be ugly, but functional. I am aiming to show the user if the SSD or GPU is the weakest link.

Also since the percentage, my PC is 3900x R9, 64GB of 3600 DDR4 RAM and RTX3900.

Also fun fact, CPU was at 50%, just due to load on PCIe bus.

So thanks for engagement, I've learnt something : )

Just out of curiosity, could you test what kind of Tensor Core utilization is there, when using DLSS?

 

[Dream-Knife]

True, on PC’s this will put more emphasis on compute, bandwidth, and VRAM allocated to manage this (the consoles being able to stream data on demand and uncompressed in GPU accessible RAM avoids all those three costs).

Wouldn't directstorage cut down on vram costs though? If the system can move assets directly to the gpu, that means it can stream faster requiring less of a area/level/scene to be loaded in at once.

 

[M1chl]

Just out of curiosity, could you test what kind of Tensor Core utilization is there, when using DLSS?

On my RTX3090 it's around 50% in something like Control, but after your post I tried it at Cyberpunk latest version, without modifying anything and it was around 62% (to 4K, Quality settings). However the whole GPU sucks much less of an energy than without DLSS, because Tensor cores are more primitive (my guess). However if I am training some neural network, it can be 100% utilized and fans don't really ramp up. Also it depends how much detail you have on the screen, if you look in the sky or in the ground it drops to 1-9%.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Finally the proper proof that PC is more than capable of delivering next-gen SSD powered I/O levels of performance.

And it's not the final form yet. GPU decompression (RTX IO included) is on it's way.

Finally "PC has bottlenecks and won't get to console I/O level" narratives will be gone.

It's still going to depend on the specific PC build, though. If your SSD has sucky performance, DirectStorage won't suddenly make it a beast no matter the general uplift it would bring. If your CPU is too weak (too slowly clocked, not enough cores & threads), decompression will still be hampered. If your GPU is the limitation (not enough spare compute, not enough spare VRAM), then decompression with that will still be hampered regardless of DirectStorage.

You're going to need at least somewhat capable hardware anyway but the big differentiator with PC versus console (and will always be true) is that builds can run a very wide gamut and attempting to optimize performance for such a range of configurations will always be less optimized than doing such for a console system. So you are still going to need some amount of raw compute/VRAM overhead on PC to try matching fully optimized console performance.

What DirectStorage does, thankfully, is lower the amount of that required overhead, especially on the SSD storage side (which is its intent; I'm just also saying that this in turn has benefits to lowering some CPU/GPU/RAM/VRAM requirements as well, so the rest of the system will benefit). The question is by how much, particularly once current-gen games on Series & PS5 (especially exclusives, particularly with the latter) start fully leveraging their SSD I/O for things beyond just fast loading times.

How much uplift will things like DirectStorage provide for tight, just-in-time asset streaming to avoid using as much of the VRAM for pre-caching as possible, is something we'll still need time to see.

Wouldn't directstorage cut down on vram costs though? If the system can move assets directly to the gpu, that means it can stream faster requiring less of a area/level/scene to be loaded in at once.

It does, or at the very least it would help cut down on system RAM (DRAM) costs where, before, data for VRAM of GPU would need to go into system RAM and then transfer that to the GPU VRAM over PCIe.

I'm not exactly sure if DirectStorage is exactly the same as GPUDirectStorage, but the latter allows the GPU to access the M.2 storage devices directly and transfer the data into VRAM, skipping the need for the CPU to put it in system RAM and then put it into GPU VRAM. That combines with Resizable BAR so that not only does GPU have all the data it needs within its VRAM which can be treated as a contingent pool of memory between GPU & CPU with a virtual address map (SAM/BAR), but now the GPU can ease on what data it needs in the VRAM at any given time with the file I/O improvements (DirectStorage).

That said, the consoles still provide a number of optimization benefits that DirectStorage doesn't, or potentially can't, due to the nature of the PC market. But it and SAM/BAR will help lower the amount of hardware overhead needed to match console-level of optimized performance by a lot, more than it's ever been able to previously. And these things will be iterated on in the future with efficiency improvements; hopefully they're good ones.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Wouldn't directstorage cut down on vram costs though? If the system can move assets directly to the gpu, that means it can stream faster requiring less of a area/level/scene to be loaded in at once.

Yes, you can cut some of that so it may recover some slack so to speak.

 

[manfestival]

so like this game runs at a natural smooth 10 fps without FSR?

 

[On Demand]

Precisely.

That person is on fanboy overload.


People wondering why PS5 is brought up. Ummm....the game is coming to PS5?????? Relax.

 

[MasterCornholio]

You people are still trying to push the "ps5 god tier sdd" immaculate "i/o complex", "6 lane" none-sense which has already been debunk a hundred times.

Its funny because the only people that were calling anyone a liar was people saying MS were lying about Direct Storage and Velocity Architecture.

People were saying that the Xbox and PC version of games would need elevators and that Xbox and PC wouldn't be able to run certain games like the 2020 PS5 demo.

All of which have been debunked. Not only can PC run the 2020 PS5 demo, it runs it at a higher resolution and FPS WITHOUT DirectStorage and using old windows 10 storage system.

Then we have the matrix demo which proves yet again that there no god tier SDD or myth-tical i/o complex as xbox series and PS5 runs identically.

Not just that but the loading speed is also the same. Actually it loads faster on the xbox series. Guess what the matrix demo will be released on PC in less than 3 weeks and we will see it perform with an even better resolution and FPS and load the same or faster on PC.

Then you have the loading speeds of dozens of games with completely identical loading times or difference that is around a second or less. This completely debunks the myth-tical ssd and i/o complex or that other platforms need elevators.

This DirectStorage and Win 11 Storage is further proving that. You couldn't take that so you have to comment about the PS5.

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Remember the viral quote "Epic game had to completely redesign UE5 to leverage PS5 SSD/IO". Yet Matrix loads faster on the Xbox Series...Now you are claiming there hasn't been a game that fully leverages the SSD/IO? So which is it?

In fact Control for example uses PS5’s kraken compression and XS still loaded faster.


Its not using GPU decom. This has already been confirmed. Not surprising, you jumped straight to the mythical i/o complex which has already been debunked.

I remember the days when PS5 was supposed to be 22GB/s and destroy everything to the point games on other platform would either not work, be lower quality or need elevators and that the solution like DirectStorage, Velocity Archetecture were PR marketing myths.

You really don't need to be worried about the I/O. Square has plenty of experience with speedy I/O systems (FF7R on PS5 for example) so I'm pretty sure they won't have any issues with Direct Storage. I'm not sure how good this game will be but Square will take full advantage of Direct Storage and the PS5s I/O system. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

You just need to chill out a bit.

 

[iHaunter]

Seems like not that much different from what they archived without DirectStorage.

2.6s to 2.2s
5.0s to 4.6s

Well in % it is around 10% gains.

Edit - It was the best results… the others shows a lower difference like 2.1s to 1.9s.

Those numbers don't look right.

 

[ethomaz]

Those numbers don't look right.

These are the the numbers in the pictures comparsion.

 

[iHaunter]

These are the the numbers in the pictures comparsion.

I mean from their end. Looks too small to brag about?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Sure but that would be a separate topic, the article used in the OP and post # 2 are only talking about the direct storage API integration for this game, it's the first game on PC to use it.

Got nothing to do with console. Console folks can relax and take a seat for a minute

Wierd thread policing when this video is clearly also about PS5

 

[jroc74]

Some more info:



And once again, PS5 is brought up....because its brought up in the video...

Agree with those saying the SSD's are the biggest features about these consoles.

Can't wait to see future games that fully leave last gen behind.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I'm certain that once GPU decompression becomes available it will make its way to the to the Xbox. Right now the only decompression hardware accelerated on the Xbox is decompression of textures. The rest is handled the traditional was using its CPU.

This isn't accurate. Xbox Series X has 2 hardware decompressors. One is for BCPack (that's purely for textures), the other is ZLIB for non-texture data.

 

[Tripolygon]

 

[sendit]

False. That slide is fake news. The Playstation 5 uses RDNA1.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Those numbers don't look right.

 

[Tripolygon]

Those numbers don't look right.

They are right, here is what Ono says about why that is.

You might be wondering if that’s substantially faster than games run without DirectStorage, and Ono admits the answer is actually no, not yet: while you’ll definitely see a huge speed boost from an SSD over the magnetic spinning platters of a hard drive, and from an NVMe SSD over a slower SATA-based drive, the current implementation of DirectStorage in Forspoken is only removing one of the big I/O bottlenecks — others exist on the CPU.

 

[staticshock]

Says one of the main people spreading misinformation about SSD and IO for the past 2 years.

I'm just setting the record straight with indisputable facts for those who came in here with the "but its not as good as PS5 god ssd/io" mantra. Which has no basis in facts.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

Nah that's more of a you problem. I know the video was just about Direct Storage on PC. Consoles don't really have a part in this since neither of them use it to my knowledge.

I'm more curious as to how this will work with RTX I/O and if AMD is going to do something similar.

I'm pretty sure the Series systems use DirectStorage; IIRC the implementation for PC has been spun out from what they have on console.

PS5 doesn't use DirectStorage, because 'DirectStorage' is just Microsoft's version/implementation of a software file I/O framework and API stack. Sony have their own file I/O framework and API stack for similar features, obviously, so they wouldn't use a naming that plays into nomenclature used for a series of Microsoft products

They are right, here is what Ono says about why that is.

I wonder if CPUs will start coming with decompression engines built-in. Some are already coming with neural engines built-in like Apple's M1 and M2 chips; specific ASIC logic for decompression engines would be a good next step and take away the need for larger & larger CPUs with more & more cores just being used for decompression of data.

Sounds like a logical next step IMO, but it would have to wait for a new generation of CPUs at the very earliest.

It is one part of it, the second part is Direct Storage. On PC there is probably never going to be a fixed HW for decompression, but GPU can do this well (on it's tensor cores, which isn't really utilized without DLSS), so it's good to use them to do the job.

I don't think that'll hold true, tbh. Integrated SoCs/APUs are continuously adding more hardware acceleration baked-in; data decompression engines of varying capabilities to optimize that process for those designs just seems like a natural next step.

Especially considering that not all PCs in the future are going to have upgrade paths for all GPU types, or any GPUs in some cases. Never mind laptops, tablets etc. which would probably like to not get too far left behind on the big file I/O shift, those decompression engines built-in could benefit a lot.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

If regular ass Win32 is actually capable of being that fast then I can live with my DirectStoragless Win10 for another few years I guess.

It's not exclusive to w11

 

[sendit]

You people are still trying to push the "ps5 god tier sdd" immaculate "i/o complex", "6 lane" none-sense which has already been debunk a hundred times.

Its funny because the only people that were calling anyone a liar was people saying MS were lying about Direct Storage and Velocity Architecture.

People were saying that the Xbox and PC version of games would need elevators and that Xbox and PC wouldn't be able to run certain games like the 2020 PS5 demo.

All of which have been debunked. Not only can PC run the 2020 PS5 demo, it runs it at a higher resolution and FPS WITHOUT DirectStorage and using old windows 10 storage system.

Then we have the matrix demo which proves yet again that there no god tier SDD or myth-tical i/o complex as xbox series and PS5 runs identically.

Not just that but the loading speed is also the same. Actually it loads faster on the xbox series. Guess what the matrix demo will be released on PC in less than 3 weeks and we will see it perform with an even better resolution and FPS and load the same or faster on PC.

Then you have the loading speeds of dozens of games with completely identical loading times or difference that is around a second or less. This completely debunks the myth-tical ssd and i/o complex or that other platforms need elevators.

This DirectStorage and Win 11 Storage is further proving that. You couldn't take that so you have to comment about the PS5.

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Remember the viral quote "Epic game had to completely redesign UE5 to leverage PS5 SSD/IO". Yet Matrix loads faster on the Xbox Series...Now you are claiming there hasn't been a game that fully leverages the SSD/IO? So which is it?

In fact Control for example uses PS5’s kraken compression and XS still loaded faster.


Its not using GPU decom. This has already been confirmed. Not surprising, you jumped straight to the mythical i/o complex which has already been debunked.

I remember the days when PS5 was supposed to be 22GB/s and destroy everything to the point games on other platform would either not work, be lower quality or need elevators and that the solution like DirectStorage, Velocity Archetecture were PR marketing myths.

DirectStorage and similar technoglies (ie RTX I/O) have been in development for years in regards to solving the I/O bottleneck that PCs have. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at? This isn't some revelation that just happened because of the PS5. What people disregarded was the benefits this change brings. Do you actually think the I/O bandwidth has been tapped on the PS5? Or no other use cases will expand and require more? Do you expect software to remain stagnate?

 

[Snake29]

Says one of the main people spreading misinformation about SSD and IO for the past 2 years.

I'm just setting the record straight with indisputable facts for those who came in here with the "but its not as good as PS5 god ssd/io" mantra. Which has no basis in facts.

Spreading misinformation?

You really sound like a salty PC masterrace (You know, those members of that nerd club who live in a bubble and think there's nothing better in the world than what's in their PC in terms of hardware.) dipshit in the basement of his parents, who only gets some attention on the Internet.

It's more like you can't handle that Cerny was on point from the start. Based on you post....you still have these nightmares.

 

[alabtrosMyster]

We are going to see a great deal of open world games this gen and I want to see how all of them use that storage.

This is what worries me, open world everything all the time would suck big time.

We have enough games like this.

 

[MAtgS]

 

[NEbeast]

You people are still trying to push the "ps5 god tier sdd" immaculate "i/o complex", "6 lane" none-sense which has already been debunk a hundred times.

Its funny because the only people that were calling anyone a liar was people saying MS were lying about Direct Storage and Velocity Architecture.

People were saying that the Xbox and PC version of games would need elevators and that Xbox and PC wouldn't be able to run certain games like the 2020 PS5 demo.

All of which have been debunked. Not only can PC run the 2020 PS5 demo, it runs it at a higher resolution and FPS WITHOUT DirectStorage and using old windows 10 storage system.

Then we have the matrix demo which proves yet again that there no god tier SDD or myth-tical i/o complex as xbox series and PS5 runs identically.

Not just that but the loading speed is also the same. Actually it loads faster on the xbox series. Guess what the matrix demo will be released on PC in less than 3 weeks and we will see it perform with an even better resolution and FPS and load the same or faster on PC.

Then you have the loading speeds of dozens of games with completely identical loading times or difference that is around a second or less. This completely debunks the myth-tical ssd and i/o complex or that other platforms need elevators.

This DirectStorage and Win 11 Storage is further proving that. You couldn't take that so you have to comment about the PS5.

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Remember the viral quote "Epic game had to completely redesign UE5 to leverage PS5 SSD/IO". Yet Matrix loads faster on the Xbox Series...Now you are claiming there hasn't been a game that fully leverages the SSD/IO? So which is it?

In fact Control for example uses PS5’s kraken compression and XS still loaded faster.


Its not using GPU decom. This has already been confirmed. Not surprising, you jumped straight to the mythical i/o complex which has already been debunked.

I remember the days when PS5 was supposed to be 22GB/s and destroy everything to the point games on other platform would either not work, be lower quality or need elevators and that the solution like DirectStorage, Velocity Archetecture were PR marketing myths.

Jeeze, who tf cares enough to write all that?

Enjoy your box of preference.

 

[ChiefDada]

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Your entire post was quite the spectacle, but I chose to address the most egregious of your statements:

1. To date, Digital Foundry has not tested (or have not released results) of R&C gameplay performance using a gimped SSD. They have proposed testing this, but curiously they have not followed up on it. Even if they did, the PS5 i/o will still contribute immensely, regardless of what you want to believe.

2. Even prior to PS5 release, developers tried in vain to explain to people that the i/o storage architecture was chiefly responsible for PS5 revolutionary speed and data management. During the PS5 tech reveal, Mark Cerny mentioned how the SSD was just one factor, and why drive speeds would remain theoretical without the i/o architecture Sony has developed.

3. Xbox velocity architecture is great, but it would be silly to assign superlatives to the Xbox Series storage architecture when the PS5 exists.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

You people are still trying to push the "ps5 god tier sdd" immaculate "i/o complex", "6 lane" none-sense which has already been debunk a hundred times.

Its funny because the only people that were calling anyone a liar was people saying MS were lying about Direct Storage and Velocity Architecture.

People were saying that the Xbox and PC version of games would need elevators and that Xbox and PC wouldn't be able to run certain games like the 2020 PS5 demo.

All of which have been debunked. Not only can PC run the 2020 PS5 demo, it runs it at a higher resolution and FPS WITHOUT DirectStorage and using old windows 10 storage system.

Then we have the matrix demo which proves yet again that there no god tier SDD or myth-tical i/o complex as xbox series and PS5 runs identically.

Not just that but the loading speed is also the same. Actually it loads faster on the xbox series. Guess what the matrix demo will be released on PC in less than 3 weeks and we will see it perform with an even better resolution and FPS and load the same or faster on PC.

Then you have the loading speeds of dozens of games with completely identical loading times or difference that is around a second or less. This completely debunks the myth-tical ssd and i/o complex or that other platforms need elevators.

This DirectStorage and Win 11 Storage is further proving that. You couldn't take that so you have to comment about the PS5.

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Remember the viral quote "Epic game had to completely redesign UE5 to leverage PS5 SSD/IO". Yet Matrix loads faster on the Xbox Series...Now you are claiming there hasn't been a game that fully leverages the SSD/IO? So which is it?

In fact Control for example uses PS5’s kraken compression and XS still loaded faster.


Its not using GPU decom. This has already been confirmed. Not surprising, you jumped straight to the mythical i/o complex which has already been debunked.

I remember the days when PS5 was supposed to be 22GB/s and destroy everything to the point games on other platform would either not work, be lower quality or need elevators and that the solution like DirectStorage, Velocity Archetecture were PR marketing myths.

Lol, calm down man. It is not that serious

Besides you have some bad assumptions here. If you think current games are maxing out PS5's I/O (or even the Series consoles, for that matter), you're fooling yourself. The Epic demo released in 2021 was not the same demo as the the 2020, so we can assume the 2020 one could run on other systems at that fidelity or even better, but using the 2021 demo as proof of that is nonsensical.

DF's test with R&C doesn't act as any proof PS5's I/O is some smoke-and-mirrors show. It just means that Rift Apart isn't tapping the full breadth of its decompression capabilities. Also, it's about more than just bandwidths; latency timings, check-in, parallel channel access etc. are also as important or arguably more important than just raw bandwidths. If anything, DirectStorage is just showing something I said a long time ago: both Microsoft and Sony have found ways to address main bottlenecks of file I/O in cost-efficient ways, they've just taken different approaches to implementing it and those approaches have their advantages and disadvantages.

Sony's advantage is that, at least theoretically, it should offer some better performance in the long haul, even if the theoretical peaks are not quite reached. But it's also a design built specifically for one hardware spec, so flexibility and scalability is somewhat poor. Microsoft's advantage is that they have a more software-driven implementation that is highly flexible and scalable to a large number of device profile configurations.

The main drawback being that, depending on hardware capabilities of those devices, you won't get quite the same maximum level of performance as a more specifically curated design for a single hardware profile. That's why it shouldn't be too surprising if/when there are PS5 games (specifically 1P) later in the future able to do certain things with asset streaming that the Series consoles just won't be able to manage without making some compromises in other areas.

These shouldn't really be seen as negatives, however, and you shouldn't feel the need to try downplaying PS5 in this area just because you feel some vindication with this news from GDC. All the same, hopefully this news will get some of the people claiming certain types of games just flat-out would never be possible on Series S or X this gen, to stop making those ridiculous claims. Even if PS5's I/O is ultimately the more capable of the two (and will most likely prove this once more current-gen only 1P games arrive), DirectStorage will help keep Series systems competitive in terms of file I/O throughout the generation. Besides, most multiplats will target I/O performance that gives good enough results on both platforms so you're looking at only maybe 5% of games in the gen that really push Sony's I/O to its peak, and those will all most likely be first-party.

If any of this turns out being wrong, so be it. I'm just saying don't get all huffy-puffy about this stuff lol.

 

[M1chl]

I'm pretty sure the Series systems use DirectStorage; IIRC the implementation for PC has been spun out from what they have on console.

PS5 doesn't use DirectStorage, because 'DirectStorage' is just Microsoft's version/implementation of a software file I/O framework and API stack. Sony have their own file I/O framework and API stack for similar features, obviously, so they wouldn't use a naming that plays into nomenclature used for a series of Microsoft products



I wonder if CPUs will start coming with decompression engines built-in. Some are already coming with neural engines built-in like Apple's M1 and M2 chips; specific ASIC logic for decompression engines would be a good next step and take away the need for larger & larger CPUs with more & more cores just being used for decompression of data.

Sounds like a logical next step IMO, but it would have to wait for a new generation of CPUs at the very earliest.



I don't think that'll hold true, tbh. Integrated SoCs/APUs are continuously adding more hardware acceleration baked-in; data decompression engines of varying capabilities to optimize that process for those designs just seems like a natural next step.

Especially considering that not all PCs in the future are going to have upgrade paths for all GPU types, or any GPUs in some cases. Never mind laptops, tablets etc. which would probably like to not get too far left behind on the big file I/O shift, those decompression engines built-in could benefit a lot.

Well I don't think much companies have the muscle to do it, Nvidia can definitely, however I don't think there is a need for that. Also on PC there is obvious push to have the solution working with different data sets, since there it's an open platform, so I believe that this is the best solution. It's super quick and you can use unused HW (units) in your PC. So what's not to love.

 

[cartman414]

Slightly erroneous vid. All NVMe SSDs are m.2, but not all m.2 SSDs are NVMe.

 

[Mr Moose]

This isn't accurate. Xbox Series X has 2 hardware decompressors. One is for BCPack (that's purely for textures), the other is ZLIB for non-texture data.

Isn't he saying the hardware decompressor is handling both BCPack and ZLib, not that it has two?

 

[DaGwaphics]

1. To date, Digital Foundry has not tested (or have not released results) of R&C gameplay performance using a gimped SSD. They have proposed testing this, but curiously they have not followed up on it. Even if they did, the PS5 i/o will still contribute immensely, regardless of what you want to believe.

 

[staticshock]

DirectStorage and similar technoglies (ie RTX I/O) have been in development for years in regards to solving the I/O bottleneck that PCs have. I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at? This isn't some revelation that just happened because of the PS5. What people disregarded was the benefits this change brings. Do you actually think the I/O bandwidth has been tapped on the PS5? Or no other use cases will expand and require more? Do you expect software to remain stagnate?

All I know is the facts that Direct Storage has performed on par or better than PS5's SSD and IO at every category. Those are the facts that we have and that completely contradicts all conjecture and misinformation we had coming into this gen. There's no need for elevators on other platform..And I expect DS when fully utilized and realized like its console counterpart in XS, will be on par and better.

Spreading misinformation?

You really sound like a salty PC masterrace (You know, those members of that nerd club who live in a bubble and think there's nothing better in the world than what's in their PC in terms of hardware.) dipshit in the basement of his parents, who only gets some attention on the Internet.

It's more like you can't handle that Cerny was on point from the start. Based on you post....you still have these nightmares.

First of all, I own a PS/X and PC. I literally have no preference so don't come for me.

On the other hand Cerny is so on point that loading times with DirectStorage on XS loads the same or better than the SSD/IO on PS5?
Cerny wasn't right. You were wrong. Just look at all the claims you made, every single one of them have been wrong.
I can't believe you can post about SSD/IO with a straight face...

Your entire post was quite the spectacle, but I chose to address the most egregious of your statements:

1. To date, Digital Foundry has not tested (or have not released results) of R&C gameplay performance using a gimped SSD. They have proposed testing this, but curiously they have not followed up on it. Even if they did, the PS5 i/o will still contribute immensely, regardless of what you want to believe.

They tested a 1.7 GB/s on the Matrix demo which worked flawlessly.
Second, its funny how you credit PS5's I/O while a limited SSD is being used.
Yet Direct Storage on XS is outperforming the PS5 with literally half the SSD speed.
If PS5's IO is god-tier, then DS must be a god killer.

2. Even prior to PS5 release, developers tried in vain to explain to people that the i/o storage architecture was chiefly responsible for PS5 revolutionary speed and data management. During the PS5 tech reveal, Mark Cerny mentioned how the SSD was just one factor, and why drive speeds would remain theoretical without the i/o architecture Sony has developed.

Direct Storage on XS outperform PS5 with half the SSD speed. But PS5's storage is the one with the revolutionary speed and data management? Like are you kidding me? This is what i'm talking about. The facts are completely the opposite.

The facts are pretty blatant that Direct Storage outperforms PS5 I/O. The only one here relying on bruteforce is literally PS5? Like seriously...

Yet you praise the PS5 for inferior I/O.
I have no doubt that DS and RTX I/O will easily outperform in practice when the benchmarks are here.

3. Xbox velocity architecture is great, but it would be silly to assign superlatives to the Xbox Series storage architecture when the PS5 exists.

Xbox velocity architecture literally outperforms the PS5 using half the SSD speed.
Yet PS5 I/O is better? This is insanity!

They are right, here is what Ono says about why that is.

That's Forspoken's implementation to be exact.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

Isn't he saying the hardware decompressor is handling both BCPack and ZLib, not that it has two?

Well, Microsoft says 2 in their hotchips presentation that it's 2 decompression engines, one for texture decompression and the other is for general data. And their engineers via twitter since before and after release have suggested that there are two of them and they operate in parallel.

I suppose it could be viewed as it being a single hardware decompression block that just supports two different types of compression codecs, both capable of operating simultaneously. But it kinda works out the same.

 

[staticshock]

Lol, calm down man. It is not that serious

Besides you have some bad assumptions here. If you think current games are maxing out PS5's I/O (or even the Series consoles, for that matter), you're fooling yourself. The Epic demo released in 2021 was not the same demo as the the 2020, so we can assume the 2020 one could run on other systems at that fidelity or even better, but using the 2021 demo as proof of that is nonsensical.

The 2020 demo has already been proven to run on PC without direct-storage or mesh shaders or fancy SSD.
You continue to spread misinformation. The creators of UE5, the creator of Lumen and Nanite literally both told you that. MULTIPLE TIMES. But somehow you consider them as idiots that don't know what they are talking about.

The creator of Nanite and multiple other Unreal engines engineers have also told you that the 2021 Valley of the Ancient demo that was released on PC and ran on both consoles were MORE heavy and taxing than the 2020 demo. But again you consider them as idiots.

Literally you consider the creator of nanite as an idiot. cause clearly he doesn't know what he is talking about.

Not only that we have specs from the Matrix demo and can compare them with the Valley of the ancient demo, which creator of nanite already said was more taxing than the 2020 demo.

Not only that the matrix demo will be released on PC in literally 3 WEEKS. And guess what? PC will run it at native 4k without even direct storage. But that wont stop you from continuing to push your misinformation.

- 2020 demo had only 6.14 GB of nanite data
- Valley 2021 demo had slightly less nanite data but way more texture data that the 2020 demo.
- Valley 2021 demo was way more taxing than the 2020 demo (2x+)
- Valley 2021 demo needs only 3 GB Ram and 7 GB VRAM (I/O)

The conclusion is basic logic.

Here is the 2020 demo running on PC. Clearly these engineers are lying.

DF's test with R&C doesn't act as any proof PS5's I/O is some smoke-and-mirrors show. It just means that Rift Apart isn't tapping the full breadth of its decompression capabilities. Also, it's about more than just bandwidths; latency timings, check-in, parallel channel access etc. are also as important or arguably more important than just raw bandwidths. If anything, DirectStorage is just showing something I said a long time ago: both Microsoft and Sony have found ways to address main bottlenecks of file I/O in cost-efficient ways, they've just taken different approaches to implementing it and those approaches have their advantages and disadvantages.

Sony's advantage is that, at least theoretically, it should offer some better performance in the long haul, even if the theoretical peaks are not quite reached. But it's also a design built specifically for one hardware spec, so flexibility and scalability is somewhat poor. Microsoft's advantage is that they have a more software-driven implementation that is highly flexible and scalable to a large number of device profile configurations.

The main drawback being that, depending on hardware capabilities of those devices, you won't get quite the same maximum level of performance as a more specifically curated design for a single hardware profile. That's why it shouldn't be too surprising if/when there are PS5 games (specifically 1P) later in the future able to do certain things with asset streaming that the Series consoles just won't be able to manage without making some compromises in other areas.

This is pure nonsense, Direct Storage on console has performed on par and even outperformed the PS5 in every way on almost all games. If there were a difference. We would see it by now. This is the same narrative we heard before launch. That "other platforms will need elevators", "this won't run on other platforms", or "only the flying section will work on PS5".

Even if PS5's I/O is ultimately the more capable of the two (and will most likely prove this once more current-gen only 1P games arrive)

It isn't every single game so far has proved that.

If any of this turns out being wrong, so be it. I'm just saying don't get all huffy-puffy about this stuff lol.

All of it has been wrong. UE5 creators have told you several times that you are wrong.
But you regard them as idiots.
You don't care about the truth.

Matrix demo will drop in 3 weeks on PC and PC will run it flawly in higher resolution, fps and without even using direct storage and you won't bat an eye and continue spreading your misinformation.

Claiming the creators of UE5 doesn't know what they are talking about.

 

[Self_Destructive]

You people are still trying to push the "ps5 god tier sdd" immaculate "i/o complex", "6 lane" none-sense which has already been debunk a hundred times.

Its funny because the only people that were calling anyone a liar was people saying MS were lying about Direct Storage and Velocity Architecture.

People were saying that the Xbox and PC version of games would need elevators and that Xbox and PC wouldn't be able to run certain games like the 2020 PS5 demo.

All of which have been debunked. Not only can PC run the 2020 PS5 demo, it runs it at a higher resolution and FPS WITHOUT DirectStorage and using old windows 10 storage system.

Then we have the matrix demo which proves yet again that there no god tier SDD or myth-tical i/o complex as xbox series and PS5 runs identically.

Not just that but the loading speed is also the same. Actually it loads faster on the xbox series. Guess what the matrix demo will be released on PC in less than 3 weeks and we will see it perform with an even better resolution and FPS and load the same or faster on PC.

Then you have the loading speeds of dozens of games with completely identical loading times or difference that is around a second or less. This completely debunks the myth-tical ssd and i/o complex or that other platforms need elevators.

This DirectStorage and Win 11 Storage is further proving that. You couldn't take that so you have to comment about the PS5.

You people then result to glorifying Rachet & Clank, which was also debunked by DF by taping off the SSD and running it on 1.7 GB/s SSD.

But people still couldn't give up on the house of cards so they make up things like. "Oh the i/o complex is doing all the work and the ssd doesn't really matter."

So which is it, the magically i/o complex or the ssd? Cause XS with slower SSD is performing better or virtually the same in ALL games.

So if its "mythical i/o complex"...why can't it be a "mythical direct storage and velocity architecture"?

Whats next? claiming that the current games are not taking full advantage of the PS5 ssd/io? that's a joke. Developers have and are already overhauling their engine to take advantage of the ssd/up for loading.

Remember the viral quote "Epic game had to completely redesign UE5 to leverage PS5 SSD/IO". Yet Matrix loads faster on the Xbox Series...Now you are claiming there hasn't been a game that fully leverages the SSD/IO? So which is it?

In fact Control for example uses PS5’s kraken compression and XS still loaded faster.

U ok bruh?

 

[deeptech]

Hey S staticshock i see you say matrix demo releasing on PC in 3 weeks, is that real, any source? Cool if true, also no need to prove stuff to console users man, they must defend and confirm their purchase to the death like always

 

[ethomaz]

What a bullshit… everybody knows PS5 doesn’t support FidelityFX.
There are dozen of threads here in GAF only talking about that

 

[ethomaz]

Slightly erroneous vid. All NVMe SSDs are m.2, but not all m.2 SSDs are NVMe.

That is not accurate too.
If you look at NVMe specs it works in all type of form factor:

“It is the industry standard for solid state drives (SSDs) in all form factors (U.2, M.2, AIC, EDSFF)”

So no… not all NVMe SSD are M.2.

 

[yamaci17]

i hope it somehow works on my trusty old pcie 3 b450 board

 

[Tripolygon]

That's Forspoken's implementation to be exact.

What specifically about my post is not exact enough?

 

[ChiefDada]

What are you confused about? DF used a 3.5gb/s NVME SSD in the video you referenced. They subsequently proposed to gimp the 3.5gb ssd by covering portion with tape. This has not happened yet.

 

[EDMIX]

This is what worries me, open world everything all the time would suck big time.

We have enough games like this.

Well we already have a good amount of linear games and open world as a concept simply makes more sense.

Think about, its not like you leave your house and a fucking series of cut scenes start playing before you get to work. So you'll see more open world concepts as they naturally allow for lot of gameplay elements to occur, ironically even linear ones.

As in a character in a FF title can walk into cave and the rocks fall behind them annnnnnnd dungeon.

Even titles like Resident Evil can be done with a open world format, ie Leon goes to this part of town, gate gets overrun by zombies, you need a key to get into the next place etc.

So because of this, it means naturally you clearly already exist in a "open" world by default, within that game can have segments that can use the concept of linear without THE WHOLE GAME being that, which means you'll likely keep seeing em. It doesn't help that Elder Ring is moving all those units btw.

 

[staticshock]

What specifically about my post is not exact enough?

i was just noting that Forspoken is not fully utilizing the current available Direct Storage let alone the future version of Direct Storage. There were still many bottlenecks that Direct Storage could eliminate that they left untouched.

Hey S staticshock i see you say matrix demo releasing on PC in 3 weeks, is that real, any source? Cool if true, also no need to prove stuff to console users man, they must defend and confirm their purchase to the death like always

Epic games told Digital Foundry that UE5 will release in spring 2022. Right on schedule UE5 preview came out in Feb 22nd. The preview process has historically taken around 5-6 weeks. Usually there are up to 7 previews and Epic releases a new preview version every week.

But for UE5 preview, Epic is doing biweekly releases. So we are at preview 2. Which means UE5 official release will come right after preview 3. At or around the second or third week of April. Which ofcourse lines up with the spring date they gave last year.

 

[DaGwaphics]

What are you confused about? DF used a 3.5gb/s NVME SSD in the video you referenced. They subsequently proposed to gimp the 3.5gb ssd by covering portion with tape. This has not happened yet.

Why would they waste their time testing drives that aren't supported by the system? They tested one of the slowest supported drives available. I guess they could try a hdd too, but what's the point.

I'd already call the drive 2GBs slower than the recommendation gimped.

 

[3liteDragon]

Here’s the question I’ve had since the beginning, MS first said DS was exclusive to W11 & then made it available to W10 users after the backlash.

But W11 has a revamped software I/O stack that helps DirectStorage reach it’s full potential in throughput, so when a game is designed to take full advantage of DS, how is that even gonna run on Windows 10?

 

[alabtrosMyster]

Well we already have a good amount of linear games and open world as a concept simply makes more sense.

No, not for a game... I don't care how you think it should "make sense", it should be fun first... if you can do it well in an open world, well more power to you.

I prefer focused and well designed encounters instead of the random BS / emergent gameplay you get in these games, it's all the same re-skinned game. You start on a limited map with limited access, learn the basics, then get the map with some kind of fog of war on it, unlock "towers" and "bases", get the check list of adventures with icons, follow the GPS to get to the next adventure. When you get in a story mission you end up having to remain in the general region so you don't do it cheaply, etc.

The environments are also "samey" within any given game (Elden ring seems to be better in that regard).

I would say that it's possible, but honestly... I play one every two or three years and I always feel bad after (no matter how well made the combat loop is)

 

[vpance]

Here’s the question I’ve had since the beginning, MS first said DS was exclusive to W11 & then made it available to W10 users after the backlash.

But W11 has a revamped software I/O stack that helps DirectStorage reach it’s full potential in throughput, so when a game is designed to take full advantage of DS, how is that even gonna run on Windows 10?

No clue but it's supposed to be a gimped version of DirectStorage on Win10.

I wouldn't worry about it though, since it's not like games next year will run like ass on Win10 DS and then silk on Win11.

 

[Snake29]

All I know is the facts that Direct Storage has performed on par or better than PS5's SSD and IO at every category. Those are the facts that we have and that completely contradicts all conjecture and misinformation we had coming into this gen. There's no need for elevators on other platform..And I expect DS when fully utilized and realized like its console counterpart in XS, will be on par and better.


First of all, I own a PS/X and PC. I literally have no preference so don't come for me.

On the other hand Cerny is so on point that loading times with DirectStorage on XS loads the same or better than the SSD/IO on PS5?
Cerny wasn't right. You were wrong. Just look at all the claims you made, every single one of them have been wrong.
I can't believe you can post about SSD/IO with a straight face...

They tested a 1.7 GB/s on the Matrix demo which worked flawlessly.
Second, its funny how you credit PS5's I/O while a limited SSD is being used.
Yet Direct Storage on XS is outperforming the PS5 with literally half the SSD speed.
If PS5's IO is god-tier, then DS must be a god killer.


Direct Storage on XS outperform PS5 with half the SSD speed. But PS5's storage is the one with the revolutionary speed and data management? Like are you kidding me? This is what i'm talking about. The facts are completely the opposite.

The facts are pretty blatant that Direct Storage outperforms PS5 I/O. The only one here relying on bruteforce is literally PS5? Like seriously...

Yet you praise the PS5 for inferior I/O.
I have no doubt that DS and RTX I/O will easily outperform in practice when the benchmarks are here.


Xbox velocity architecture literally outperforms the PS5 using half the SSD speed.
Yet PS5 I/O is better? This is insanity!

That's Forspoken's implementation to be exact.

What has Cerny his claims to do with anything outside of the PS5?

You really want to turn this topic into a UE5 thread?

You….you are just a salty little boy.

 

[EDMIX]

it should be fun first.

? Where did I say it shouldn't? A lot of your post is a shit load of a assumptions of what I mean lol

You are basically forcing some fake fucking argument based on something that was never stated.

I prefer focused and well designed encounters instead of the random BS

All that can occur in a open world title though, the shit you are talking about is based on bad games that do that, that isn't some default, staple, definition of a open world game any more then forced walking, loads of cut scenes and QTE's are in linear titles.

Thats like me fucking saying some dumb shit to you like "NO THANKS BrOz, I prefer open worlds free of FORCED WALKING sims, loads of QTEs and cut scenes, I mean is this a game or a movie?" It forces this idea that LINEAR is only this, OPEN WORLD is 100% ONLY towers etc.

Unless I'm literally saying it in a post, stop forcing that argument. All I can reply on is what you tell me you like, I can't just assume you must support forced walking and QTEs, its immature as fuck and tries to assume way too much.


So I'm sorry man but open world games are not

all the same re-skinned game

any more then all linear games are all forced walking sim, interactive movies and QTE fest...

So I get that you saying you prefer focused well designed encounters, but for fuck sakes, where on Earth did you hear I say otherwise? I don't even think you fully understand anything thats being stated btw, you seem to be in some rage mode of just making it sound as if by default I'm saying more towers and more bases or some dumb shit. You want that to be the argument instead of just reading the post....

Open world makes more sense for developers because its by default how we see the world. We go outside to go to a store, drive there and shit happens lol We don't walk out and a fucking black screen shows up and we end up at work with no explanation or something. So even if you wanted those linear concepts, that can be made IN AN OPEN WORLD, as in you can have a open world with no towers, no bases and no check list, many fucking titles exist like that mind you.

1 .You can have a post apocalyptic title where a mission can have no list, no guide and simply a quest to go to a place to do something like bring medicine to a sick kid to help unit a tribe, clan, group
2. You can have an encounter where the game just makes it happen on your way back from doing a said mission like "you better not have saved that kid, we funa fight now" lol
3. You lose the fight, end up in a (dungeon) where they kidnapped you and are selling you to some slave traders and must find a way to escape and kill your way out.
4. You leave with loot and you are in a new city you have never seen before as you got knocked out (black screened), you ask around to get directions back to your city, camp etc, make new friends.


So sir, all that shit can happen in a open world game. It means a publisher/developer can literally entertain many concepts at once. A limited area for this part, a fixed scene for this part, a situation that occurs thats not random etc. While still having the natural open concept that people expect a world to be like. So I expect us to see more open world titles, but please stop making it sound as if that is a request for towers, bases and checklist. If I can understand what you want based on what you said and not assume, I'm 99% sure you can do the same.