iHaunter
Member
It 100% does require the SSD. Unless you want to play at 720p.
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PC Gamer: Turns out Ratchet and Clank: Rift Apart CAN run on a hard drive thanks to DirectStorage 1.2
Topher
Gold Member
Which means you can play the game without a SSD, but at 720p. That means it isn't required.
iHaunter
Member
Indirectly does. No one is going to play it at 720p.
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Steam deck users would.
Silver Wattle
Gold Member
That is never what this was about, it's about insomniac claiming it couldn't be run as-is without the ps5 SSD.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Depending on how heavy the game is we might be playing this at 800p(FSR 2 'Balanced')...so 480p(16:10)??
Ironically, many Deck users have NVMe drives ranging from 2200MB/s to 3500MB/s.Well yeah, but he said that in June 2020:
Nixxes says in the removed blog post from July 2023:
Direct Storage 1.2 SDK was released April 2023. IIRC, Forspoken was the first Direct Storage game and that released January 2023. Nixxes added the adaptive streaming to the game sometime in the last year or 2. His statement could have been true, especially if the context was "as-is" on a PS4 or external HDD on PS5. 720p/Ultra Low isn't "as is". I'm sure DF will test it at Recommend/High/RT on different drives to get an idea of the baseline drive needed for PS5 quality. I'd guess a SATA SSD will do the trick.
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Gamerguy84
Member
When the console came out it showcased all the new tech inside. There are games more impressive with loading than ratchet. It was still a cool feat back then to load up a new world while going through a Rift.
Topher
Gold Member
C Corndog nothing in that sentence equates to
MasterCornholio
saying anything is "impossible". You know that.
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Topher
Gold Member
Well he does say he is speaking generally. I don't think that is necessarily an incorrect statement. If we go by these system requirements for R&C where SSD is required to achieve higher performance then that would seem to indicate exactly what he was saying.
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Yes you do.
Topher
Gold Member
lol....ok, I'm not going to play silly games.
Edit: I see. You edited your post after the fact and added the point you left out entirely before. Silly games.
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You mean just like you did with your post.
Topher
Gold Member
I'm not the one putting quotes in my post without any context and moving goalposts all at the same time. That's just you.
ChiefDada
Gold Member
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I didn’t move any goalposts. My point is the same as it was back then.
I’ve made my point.
It’s a joke. You won’t like it.
Eating crow - Wikipedia
Hoddi
Member
I have most of my games on a 6TB HDD but with a 480GB SATA SSD cache. It works really well and I mostly can't tell the difference from games running on my NVMe drive.
I wouldn't dream of using it without the cache though. I'm interested to see how well it works in R&C.
Hoddi
Member
Resolution has nothing to do with whether it runs on HDD or not. The question is whether it can run well at medium/high settings when using an HDD. Doesn't matter if it's 720p or 4k.
Topher
Gold Member
I agree with you, but I'm also wondering why they say SSD is required for the higher performance targets.
ShadowNate
Member
What even is these news? Is this the gotcha on the marketing of the developer and Sony for a game that was a PS exclusive?
Sure it will run in HDD. Will the PC port run well on it provided the PC port will be a good one at all (very doubtful at day one)?
Will it be as fun to play with a mechanical drive? How much longer will the loading times be?
Sure it will run in HDD. Will the PC port run well on it provided the PC port will be a good one at all (very doubtful at day one)?
Will it be as fun to play with a mechanical drive? How much longer will the loading times be?
Hoddi
Member
You mean for running at 60fps as opposed to 30fps? I don't read too much into that, to be honest. I think that the 30fps reference has more to do with the CPU and GPU rather than the disk it's running off.I agree with you, but I'm also wondering why they say SSD is required for the higher performance targets.
Running off HDD might show some delayed texture loads and longer loading times. But I don't really think it will affect framerate as such.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
Interesting. So how does that setup work? I remember the hybrid HDD/SSD drives they had like FireCuda. It was a mechanical drive with onboard cache to speed them up. On Steam Deck, many game loading times are CPU-limited, so there's not much difference between SSD(2400MB/s) and microSD(100MB/s). Especially PS4-gen games are that way. As the PS5 gen rolls on I'd expect more games to rely on at least SATA SSD speeds. IIRC the Valley of the Ancients UE5 demo was using ~300-400MB/s when I tried it.
Looking forward to seeing your results! Didn't mean to shit on you or anything. I just figured most people moved on for gaming, but I understand the benefits of mechanical for backup and media storage(I have an 8TB external USB drive for that purpose).
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I didn't know the steamdeck had a mechanical hard drive
ChiefDada
Gold Member
I think real time opening rift sequence and camera wipes between levels will be off the table and instead will all be video clips, similar to how they treated HFW on PS4. Literally every visual feature that made Ratchet the PS5 showcase that it was will be removed. Hence my labeling of comparison between PS5 and PC minimum/"very low" settings as disingenuous. It's weird how some want to downplay Sony's pioneering of storage tech 3 YEARS AGO, but if it makes them feel better about themselves I'm all for it.
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
Dude! I am fucking AMPED to try out Direct Storage out on this game. This is one of the few games where I feel it will utilize the shit out of my rig.
I wanted to buy Forspoken to try it out, but I don't want to pay for a game that I don't hold in high regard, as it would be a glorified Direct Storage demo for me.
After seeing all of the nice photos of the game, provided by the GAF community here, I was sold; especially seeing limited gameplay.
I wanted to buy Forspoken to try it out, but I don't want to pay for a game that I don't hold in high regard, as it would be a glorified Direct Storage demo for me.
After seeing all of the nice photos of the game, provided by the GAF community here, I was sold; especially seeing limited gameplay.
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
@720p, very low settings and none of graphicall setting enabled. So in other words, No you can’t play the game that was like on the PS5.
Insomniac was still right. At the end the still recommend SSD.
They're going off the article that the thread is created from
"While this news benefits those still using older PCs with HDDs, the official specs page notes that the game can only be played at 720p and 30fps with a hard drive. Higher settings will reportedly require an SSD, as shown in the above image."
Of course a lot of people including the article jump to conclusions and ignore the nuance of what they're saying. minimum spec is HDD and even then it recommends an SSD for that minimum.
Judging by the 8GB RAM limit I would say the low and high settings vary considerably and high will probably struggle to run with a slow HDD. Then again, Direct Storage might allow a beefier GPU to offset data throughput requirements at the cost of some GPU power.
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asdasdasdbb
Member
Because you will need an SSD to play without it looking like a blurry mess.
Skifi28
Member
I don't really have a horse in this race, but if you need 2023 technology that wasn't available at the time to make it work on an HDD, then wouldn't that make the statement correct at the time?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
I'm really excited to see DirectStorage 1.2 in action. It's too bad that this thread has devolved into system warring rather than talking about what benefits the tech can bring to ancient SSDs and even HDDs.This is a Seagate Barracuda 2TB with the BulkLoadDemo compiled with Direct Storage 1.2
1.47GB/s is really impressive stuff for an old Hard Drive.
![[IMG]](https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53051974109_14cd995b55_o_d.jpg "[IMG]")
Snake29
RSI Employee of the Year
R&C has been in development before 2019. Direct Storage for PC or anything that could help make room for the CPU wasn't really there other then some other smaller software solutions. The PS5 has it's own solution to handle these tasks which won't require resources from CPU or GPU.
winjer
Gold Member
DS 1.2 doesn't bring that much above DS 1.1
It has some improvements for HDDs and it's faster for PCI Gen5 SSDs.
But for SATA and PCIe Gen4 and Gen3, there is almost no gains in performance.
Maybe I should post the compiled version of the BulkLoadDemo with Ds 1.2, so people can test it.
I don't know if there are many people here interested in it.
Guilty_AI
Member
I think the greatest benefit is that it gives devs even less reasons not to use it. Now they can benefit by targeting lower specs alongside improving the experience on new hardware.
Buggy Loop
Member
It's an academic interest more than a real use case.
Peoples will drool at the Digital Foundry analysis of it, then shrug it off a few days later and install the game on..... you guessed it.. an SSD.
I've been on SSD for ~13-15 years
Buggy Loop
Member
This is a Seagate Barracuda 2TB with the BulkLoadDemo compiled with Direct Storage 1.2
1.47GB/s is really impressive stuff for an old Hard Drive.
Makes me wonder, what would stop DirectStorage implementation on older Xbox One? Since it's an API for directX12, which is supported on that console, wouldn't that potentially boost loading times?
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It's the GPU decompression part that interests me the most. I know it was available in 1.1 but I believe either Forspoken did not use it or shipped with 1.0 (or maybe it was updated to 1.1)?
Not holding my breath for this. They will have to change their storage subsystem to take advantage of DS 1.2 and it seems not too many are interested in doing that. Cloud Imperium Games for instance changed their entire storage subsystem for Star Citizen and saw massive gains when it comes to loading assets and load times from an SSD to the point that an HDD is effectively unusable for that game. The possibility has been there for years but nobody has bothered. Consoles had HDDs until 2020 and even now the lowest spec PCs have HDDs so developers as is usual took the path of least resistance and changed nothing. Even without DirectStorage into play, they could have done things to take much better advantage of SSDs. DS has been available for a long time now and it's the first game that will fully use it and it's a port by Sony.
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winjer
Gold Member
I think Forspoken was released with the 1.1 dlls. But the game only used DS 1.0
Hoddi
Member
I wouldn't read too much into those numbers. This demo's dataset is just 3MB and it's all coming out of the drive's DRAM cache.This is a Seagate Barracuda 2TB with the BulkLoadDemo compiled with Direct Storage 1.2
1.47GB/s is really impressive stuff for an old Hard Drive.
Check the drive in Task Manager and you'll see it running at 500MB/s.
asdasdasdbb
Member
I think you are overestimating how much effort Nixxes is going to put into this. They must have decided that between DS 1.2 and slashing the texture resolution, that was enough to make it work on a platter drive without too much effort.