Support NeoGAF

[feynoob]

Value of time is massive and growing, easily outweighs mid games on subs.

Mid games is your opinion, as not everyone has the same taste. Value of time is subjective.
But what matters is the price tag at the end of the day.
This year for example had a lot of big games. To buy them, you need to have a lot of money.

If Sony and MS offer 30$ subscription that have a lot of day1 for first and 3rd party games, most people will sub to them.

If you want to play EA/Ubisoft games, it's cheaper to sub to their sub, rather than paying the full price on PC.

The only thing that I will agree with you is managing all these subs. If you can manage them very well, you can save your time and money.

 

[Kokoloko85]

The only stats that are important to show if this game has succeeded, is sales and new gamepass subscribers. How many NEW Gamepass subscribers have joined since the previous 1 month/12 months and how many stuck around a month or 2 after.

How many collective players are playing, downloads, bullets shot or missions completed makes no difference and nonsense

The whole point of big games on gamepass is suppose to bring in new subscribers to the ecosystem. Supposedly games and console sales arent important to Xbox, and Gamepass was the focus, so lets see if the numbers are good enough.

And in this case, success isnt breaking even. Games like Halo Infinite and Starfield are meant to take Gamepass to great heights and change the industry. Thats what we were told by Xbox employees, of all paygrades including journalists and fans who championed how Gamepass was the future and Sony and Nintendo should follow….

 

[Interfectum]

Good numbers but directly comparing sales of a game to how many players another game has is a bit odd.

 

[Heisenberg007]

I like my desi friend Heisenberg007 but he has been on Starfield's case like his life depended on it

Eh, been sick, on bed, can’t play games for more than an hour. 90% of forum chatter has been about Starfield.

I wish Sony announces an SOP and some games so we can rather talk about that.

 

[Kokoloko85]

So let me get this straight
A: Game underperformed, because people on gaming forum thought it will have more CCU on Steam?
B: Game underperformed, because two games handed over free keys/had free weekends and because of that they have higher peak CCU on Steam

Brilliant analysis mate.
Can't wait for more

Only way to see if Starfield is a success, is how many new subscribers it brought in compared to previous months, how many new players stayed and overall sales.
Everything else means nothing.

This game was hyped to change the industry btw, we’ve been told for years sales dont matter, console sales dont matter, its all about Gamepass. So lets see the actual numbers that make a difference, not how many people have downloaded it Or playing it lol

 

[Negotiator101]

Eh, been sick, on bed, can’t play games for more than an hour. 90% of forum chatter has been about Starfield.

I wish Sony announces an SOP and some games so we can rather talk about that.

Must be a Starfield bug

 

[Bernoulli]

That is Microtransactions, not subs.
Everyone hates them with passion. They are the worst form of predatory transaction that preys on weak people with addictions.

it is subscriptions

on iPhone almost all apps switched from 1 time purchase fee to a monthly or yearly subscription

Same on PC

 

[ShaiKhulud1989]

Same on PC

I pay around $300 a month for subs and around $200 is my professional software that I can't buy perpetually.

It's plain hell.

 

[feynoob]

it is subscriptions

on iPhone almost all apps switched from 1 time purchase fee to a monthly or yearly subscription

Same on PC

Those are the shit ones. But that is the state of software service.

 

[Godot25]

Only way to see if Starfield is a success, is how many new subscribers it brought in compared to previous months, how many new players stayed and overall sales.
Everything else means nothing.

This game was hyped to change the industry btw, we’ve been told for years sales dont matter, console sales dont matter, its all about Gamepass. So lets see the actual numbers that make a difference, not how many people have downloaded it Or playing it lol

There are plenty of key metrics to decide if Starfield is success or not. But the problem is that only few of them will be known to public
A: How many new Game Pass subs are there thanks to Starfield
B: How many people renewed Game Pass thanks to Starfield
C: How many new subscribers will stay subscribed for more then month
D: How many Premium Editions for Early Access were sold
E: How many copies of the game were sold
F: How Microsoft managed to jumpstart sales of Xbox consoles thanks to Starfield
G: How many players Starfield has

As I said. Easiest way to say if Starfield is successful will be to look at quarterly report. If revenue of hardware and revenue of "Content and services" will exceed expectations then you know that Starfield is more successful then Microsoft anticipated.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Only way to see if Starfield is a success, is how many new subscribers it brought in compared to previous months, how many new players stayed and overall sales.
Everything else means nothing.

This game was hyped to change the industry btw, we’ve been told for years sales dont matter, console sales dont matter, its all about Gamepass. So lets see the actual numbers that make a difference, not how many people have downloaded it Or playing it lol

It's looking like a JAG.

Just Another Game

The idea that this game that has been in development for 8 years could come in and sell less than FF16, a game SO many called underperforming and that the spin be positive, is an absolute joke.

I mean ultimately the UK market doesn't matter as much in the greater scheme of things outside whether it is indicative of performance elsewhere, but the spin reeks of desperation.

 

[adamsapple]

Eh, been sick, on bed, can’t play games for more than an hour. 90% of forum chatter has been about Starfield.

I wish Sony announces an SOP and some games so we can rather talk about that.

Hope you get better soon, brother.

 

[PropellerEar]

Mid games is your opinion, as not everyone has the same taste. Value of time is subjective.
But what matters is the price tag at the end of the day.
This year for example had a lot of big games. To buy them, you need to have a lot of money.

If Sony and MS offer 30$ subscription that have a lot of day1 for first and 3rd party games, most people will sub to them.

If you want to play EA/Ubisoft games, it's cheaper to sub to their sub, rather than paying the full price on PC.

The only thing that I will agree with you is managing all these subs. If you can manage them very well, you can save your time and money.

What matters is, are you playing the games you want and are you enjoying your time with them.

If you're content with only games through subs, paying for games you don't choose, good for you.

 

[akaFullmetal]

Good start , just need to see those legs

 

[MaxwellParrish]

Wtf is chris doing here?




People still arguing he isn't comparing sales number to gamepass numbers?

Yeah, not really sure about what he us doing, but it is certainly pretty disingenuous and slightly disgusting

 

[Gameplay Gods Bless]

Starfield is No.1 in the UK boxed charts, which is impressive. It’s not the biggest physical launch of 2023 (it’s behind Hogwarts, Zelda, Star Wars, Resi 4, FF16 and Dead Island 2 on that list), but it’s almost identical to Diablo 4







since when gamepass counts in sales?

He means the Gamepass SF deluxe sales which grant you access to the first expansion, early access and some other goodies.

 

[Kokoloko85]

There are plenty of key metrics to decide if Starfield is success or not. But the problem is that only few of them will be known to public
A: How many new Game Pass subs are there thanks to Starfield
B: How many people renewed Game Pass thanks to Starfield
C: How many new subscribers will stay subscribed for more then month
D: How many Premium Editions for Early Access were sold
E: How many copies of the game were sold
F: How Microsoft managed to jumpstart sales of Xbox consoles thanks to Starfield

Yeah thats all under what I said. Sales and how many new subscribers there aew and how many stay.

G: How many players Starfield has

No lol

 

[SmokedMeat]

it is subscriptions

on iPhone almost all apps switched from 1 time purchase fee to a monthly or yearly subscription

Same on PC

iPhone was a massive wasteland of ftp, microtransaction filled trash, long before Apple Arcade showed up - which at $5 per month to play regular games may not be a bad deal for some.

On PC subs are nothing. Microtransactions are the real problem - especially when you’ve got Tencent getting them into already released games after they buy into the developer.
Humble if you want to consider it a sub is literally offering a bunch of games to own/sell/trade each month - not a rental service. For me it’s the best deal in all of gaming. Especially for those like me who don’t rush out to buy games day one. I pay a fraction of what everyone else is paying to play games.

 

[Robbinhood]

Christopher "Other" Dring

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah, not really sure about what he us doing, but it is certainly pretty disingenuous and slightly disgusting

People have brought it up, but imagine how disingenuous you would have to be to say AstroBot sold 50 million copies and is the best-selling game of the generation.

Wait for AstroBot 2 the sequel to the best-selling AstroBot franchise, bigger than Zelda and Mario.

Next, they'll come out with the AstroBot movie to celebrate Sony's best-selling game in its history.

Lost a lot of respect for the guy.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

He also has the timeline wrong as people have pointed out to him on twitter as he ignored early access. Looks like he is deflecting criticism as fanboyism rather than addressing the real issue with his reporting.

Losing a lot more respect for him by the hour it seems.

 

[Superayate]

It's looking like a JAG.

Just Another Game

The idea that this game that has been in development for 8 years could come in and sell less than FF16, a game SO many called underperforming and that the spin be positive, is an absolute joke.

I mean ultimately the UK market doesn't matter as much in the greater scheme of things outside whether it is indicative of performance elsewhere, but the spin reeks of desperation.

Srly, it has sold less than FF16 only from physical point of view, without digital datas how can you state that for overall sales ??
56% of Final Fantasy 16's UK sales were digital, for starfield it will be clearly higher, when you have the series S without drive, and the game sold on PC where it's 99% in digital. And all these results are obviously impacted by GamePass PC and console, and not taking that in account when speaking about sales for Starfield is an error.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Srly, it has sold less than FF16 only from physical point of view, without digital datas how can you state that for overall sales ??
56% of Final Fantasy 16's UK sales were digital, for starfield it will be clearly higher, when you have the series S without drive, and the game sold on PC where it's 99% in digital. And all these results are obviously impacted by GamePass PC and console, and not taking that in account when speaking about sales for Starfield is an error.

Based on the data we have available, there is no reason to praise these results as it is being praised here.

FF16 is also heading towards PC.

But what we know is that for physical a major PS exclusive outsold Starfield which was not just an exclusive but a major pillar when it comes to physical sales.

We also know based on what Chris said is that 40% of Xbox owners have gamepass, which means that the XSS players are likely gamepass users.

Who are most likely not going to buy this digitally. The fact that this is on gamepass is going to as many others have said, derail the digital sales more than most digital games.

 

[Bond007]

Gamepass is not a sale- im sorry.
People trying it out and all that, is not a sale.

I have it on gamepass, enjoy the game- but i didnt purchase it, its a long term rental- if i even decide to continue playing.

 

[demigod]

Super poor physical sales?, hitting no.1?.
PC has zero physical sales, and there have been first party games on Xbox that have already hit 90% digital sales according to past UK Sales threads.

All of a sudden UK boxed charts matter to you, gee i wonder why.

 

[Superayate]

Based on the data we have available, there is no reason to praise these results as it is being praised here.

The only datas we currently have is that Starfield is n1 in UK this week from retail sales point of view and that It’s not the biggest physical launch of 2022. Thats's all. There is nothing more and it's impossible to conclude about Starfiel success or fail.

FF16 is also heading towards PC.

That's not currently the case so who care ?

But what we know is that for physical a major PS exclusive outsold Starfield which was not just an exclusive but a major pillar when it comes to physical sales.

We also know based on what Chris said is that 40% of Xbox owners have gamepass, which means that the XSS players are likely gamepass users.

New time, wtf is this ? Do you any datas confirming that ?? Do you really think that Series X owners are not big part of game pass user ? For example I'm Gamepass user and I have a Series X, and all people I know that has a series X are also Gamepass users. And I'm pretty sure that's the case for many Series users here.

Who are most likely not going to buy this digitally. The fact that this is on gamepass is going to as many others have said, derail the digital sales more than most digital games.

Yes, that's obvious that Starfield digital sales will be impacted by Gamepass, and that's also will be the case for physical sales. But without real datas, you don't have any clue regarding the real impact now, so you don't have any idea about the overall sales for Starfield.

 

[tmlDan]

Yeah, not really sure about what he us doing, but it is certainly pretty disingenuous and slightly disgusting

remember, he's not an analyst, just a games industry reporter....they're not very smart

 

[Mr Moose]

The only datas we currently have is that Starfield is n1 in UK this week from retail sales point of view and that It’s not the biggest physical launch of 2022. Thats's all. There is nothing more and it's impossible to conclude about Starfiel success or fail.



That's not currently the case so who care ?



New time, wtf is this ? Do you any datas confirming that ?? Do you really think that Series X owners are not big part of game pass user ? For example I'm Gamepass user and I have a Series X, and all people I know that has a series X are also Gamepass users. And I'm pretty sure that's the case for many Series users here.



Yes, that's obvious that Starfield digital sales will be impacted by Gamepass, and that's also will be the case for physical sales. But without real datas, you don't have any clue regarding the real impact now, so you don't have any idea about the overall sales for Starfield.

 

[HeWhoWalks]

All of a sudden UK boxed charts matter to you, gee i wonder why.

Another zinger!

Folks really need to start checking their bias. If there are receipts showing you shittin' the bed in here, it's time to stop posting.

 

[azertydu91]

Another zinger!

Folks really need to start checking their bias. If there are receipts showing you shittin' the bed in here, it's time to stop posting.

Some warriors here "Hold my beer"

That's Amber heard just in case some didn't get the joke.

 

[Sanepar]

Why is subscription bad?
Not everyone has 70$ laying around the corner for every game.

There are many points to answer that but this one is a good take:

Larian's Publishing Director Comments on Weaker Subscription Deals; Says Best Way to Support is to Buy Games

Larian's Director of Publishing has taken to Twitter to comment on a recent article about weaker subscription deals hitting indie devs.

www.google.com

 

[feynoob]

There are many points to answer that but this one is a good take:

Larian's Publishing Director Comments on Weaker Subscription Deals; Says Best Way to Support is to Buy Games

Larian's Director of Publishing has taken to Twitter to comment on a recent article about weaker subscription deals hitting indie devs.

www.google.com

He would say that, because that is how he gets his bonuses.
It's like cars salesman saying buy cars for long trips, instead of renting them.

My point comes from consumer side.

 

[Rockman33]

i know we have to temper expectations because of gamepass, but it seems odd to say it was the biggest launch despite half a dozen games selling more than it.

All of those other games were multiplat. And Xbox is way more weighted towards digital than physical. What’s so difficult for you to understand?

 

[HeWhoWalks]

All of those other games were multiplat.

"might be the biggest launch of 2023..........if we, somehow, include Game Pass"

Not sure where the word exclusive is hiding in there, so his confusion is palpable. Dude has things ass backwards (he even got the year wrong in his initial tweet).

Also, neither Zelda nor FFXVI are multiplat, so that doesn't work either.

 

[Sanepar]

He would say that, because that is how he gets his bonuses.
It's like cars salesman saying buy cars for long trips, instead of renting them.

My point comes from consumer side.

Casual consumers buy 2-3 games per year and it is not because of price and it is because games is a hobby on their lives between many others. Subscription service is not a smart choice for them.

Rent can be great for who only play game on their lives and put 50-100h every month on videogames at least.

 

[Three]

All of those other games were multiplat. And Xbox is way more weighted towards digital than physical. What’s so difficult for you to understand?

Not true. FF16 was less multiplat than Starfield is. Zelda ToTK was less multiplat too.

 

[Superayate]

I was speaking about the fact that he can't say that the game pass user on xbox are mainly on Series S not Series X, we have no information regarding that point.

 

[Mr Moose]

I was speaking about the fact that he can't say that the game pass user on xbox are mainly on Series S not Series X, we have no information regarding that point.

Series S has sold more than Series X, I believe. Everyone always says that the little box is the perfect Gamepass machine.

 

[feynoob]

Casual consumers buy 2-3 games per year and it is not because of price and it is because games is a hobby on their lives between many others. Subscription service is not a smart choice for them.

Rent can be great for who only play game on their lives and put 50-100h every month on videogames at least.

When games cost that much price, your options are limited. Everyone wants to play those games, but only those who can spend it can play them.

 

[Sanepar]

When games cost that much price, your options are limited. Everyone wants to play those games, but only those who can spend it can play them.

Yeah man everyone wants... everyone only play games in their lives...

 

[MarkMe2525]

he is using gamepass to say it's the biggest launch

it doesn't make sense at all unless now downloads and sales are equal

"Downloads = sales"???
No where was that stated . You're building a strawman. In the streaming business, engagement is king. If a streaming provider launches content and a large portion of their audience engages with it, they consider that a successful launch.

So if MS sells more copies than their previous titles at launch, and a larger portion of the subscriber base plays the game at launch, it's common sense to claim its their biggest launch. This is a hypothetical as I haven't looked at the numbers myself

demigod I apologize if logic leaves you feeling triggered, that was not my intent.

 

[jm89]

No where was that stated though. You're building a strawman. In the streaming business, engagement is king. If a streaming provider launches content and a large portion of their audience engages with it, they consider that a successful launch.

So if MS sells more copies than their previous titles at launch, and a larger portion of the subscriber base plays the game at launch, it's common sense to claim its their biggest launch. This is a hypothetical as I haven't looked at the numbers myself.

Not it isn't common sense to claims it's the biggest launch, when he is comparing in his previos sentence to diablo 4 and other games that aren't on gamepass.

Biggest launch of what gamepass? He clearly didn't make any distinction and threw it in with those other games.

He doesn't even even compare it to other sub service games, which would be the correct way of comparing and saying it's the biggest launch.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Not it isn't common sense to claims it's the biggest launch, when he is comparing in his previos sentence to diablo 4 and other games that aren't on gamepass.

Biggest launch of what gamepass? He clearly didn't make any distinction and threw it in with those other games.

He doesn't even even compare it to other sub service games, which would be the correct way of comparing and saying it's the biggest launch.

What? he isn't speaking in code. "With sales numbers close to Diablo 4, and with the addition of players on gamepass, it MIGHT be the biggest launch of 2023." Paraphrased of course, but it isn't hard to comprehend what is being said.

You measure success of streaming content through engagement. If a streaming platform releases content and its engagement shoots through the roof, they consider that a successful launch.

 

[jm89]

What? he isn't speaking in code. "With sales numbers close to Diablo 4, and with the addition of players on gamepass, it MIGHT be the biggest launch of 2023." Paraphrased of course, but it isn't hard to comprehend what is being said.

FIne he says "Might be" doesn't really change what i was getting at. Biggest launch compared to what games? And using what metrics?

And can those metrics be applied to those other games? Answer is no as starfield gets an extra metric to help it so it "might be the biggest launch of 2023"

You measure success of streaming content through engagement. If a streaming platform releases content and its engagement shoots through the roof, they consider that a successful launch.

That measure of success needs to be compared to comparable games that come out on sub services.

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

FIne he says "Might be" doesn't really change what i was getting at. Biggest launch compared to what games? And using what metrics?

And can those metrics be applied to those other games? Answer is no as starfield gets an extra metric to help it so it "might be the biggest launch of 2023"

That measure of success needs to be compared to comparable games that come out on sub services.

It's time we stop arguing about how well games sold in charts and focus on how well they sold in our hearts

 

[MarkMe2525]

FIne he says "Might be" doesn't really change what i was getting at. Biggest launch compared to what games? And using what metrics?

And can those metrics be applied to those other games? Answer is no as starfield gets an extra metric to help it so it "might be the biggest launch of 2023"

That measure of success needs to be compared to comparable games that come out on sub services.

Might I suggest taking a step back and rereading the tweet. He is clearly comparing to all other 2023 releases. He is clearly defining his metrics, those being overall sales + gamepass.

What he clearly is not saying; Starfield sold the most, starfield made the most money, starfield is the biggest game ever. Actually, none of his claims are very controversial at all.

 

[thismeinteil]

Why does this feel like Halo Infinite 2.0?

Hyped to Hell before launch. Game is disappointing. Xbox diehards act like it was never over hyped, but review scores are still great. They say they are sinking hours into it, and the game is great, but they have time to respond to every negative or critical comment on vids and forums. Then we get sales positions and MS gives us vague numbers about how it's a success. No sales numbers, of course. Diehards act like the sales are great.

Now, we just got to wait a few months/a year for when MS admits is was disappointing and diehards agree. GOTG indeed.

 

[jm89]

Might I suggest taking a step back and rereading the tweet. He is clearly comparing to all other 2023 releases. He is clearly defining his metrics, those being overall sales + gamepass.

Well there is the problem. Comparing it to other releases but using metrics that can't by applied to all of them.

 

[MarkMe2525]

Well there is the problem. Comparing it to other releases but using metrics that can't by applied to all of them.

Lol it definitely seems like it's a problem for you. If you were to ask, "Which game was played by the most people during its launch week?", and that game was on gamepass, would you dismiss that? Is that logical?

 

[Ass of Can Whooping]

Which game was played by the most people during its launch week?

If that was Chris's metric that'd be fine, but it's not