Spaceman292
Banned
These Devs trying to kill the hype for BG3 are fucking hacks and should feel bad a out themselves.
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Studios consider Baldur’s Gate 3 anomaly : “It’s Rockstar-level nonsense for scope”
- Thread starter Buggy Loop
- Start date
Mitsurugi Reiji
Member
This is exactly what this is. Nobody is expecting standards to change for RPGs from small developers. From big developers, it is not unfair to expect some innovations that take the medium forward, even then AAA games with not a lot of new innovations are still celebrated by most gamers if the games' vision is executed well.
Luipadre
Member
I wasnt sure about getting this game, i loved CRPGs when i was young. My favorite game was icewind dale, but i find these games overwhelming nowadays. Despite all of this, i think i might give this game a try. It just looks so ambitious and the cutscenes looks so good too with great facial animations and VA work. Definitey a new standard for RPGs
Josemayuste
Member
"-But how do we explain to our AAA lords and bosses, that a studio which slowly crawled its way from Indie dev hell into AAA gaming heaven is going to '_____' (
) our ' ____ ' (
) into Oblivion with its upcoming game- -I know mate, let's start a discussion on Twitter about it and beg not to be fired after the folks notice that we have been touching our ' ____ ' (
) for almost 20 years- - Great- "
) our ' ____ ' () into Oblivion with its upcoming game- -I know mate, let's start a discussion on Twitter about it and beg not to be fired after the folks notice that we have been touching our ' ____ ' () for almost 20 years- - Great- "
Red5
Member
How is this new? Didn't Bioware do the same with Mass Effect? Laying the foundation with 1 and then continuing till 3? Even Josh Sawyer did the same with Pillars of Eternity 1 which they refined it to a better sequel in 2, unfortunately it didn't perform well to fund a third one.
Isn't this the definition of iteration and improving? What every studio does with established franchises.
Isn't this the definition of iteration and improving? What every studio does with established franchises.
amigastar
Member
reductio argument (reductio ad absurdum). I bet 98% who bought the game with their free will don't care about the bear scene.
It possibly has to do more with their passion and seriousness making a good game, huh?
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Varteras
Gold Member
You know that was a joke, right?
amigastar
Member
Went right over my head
Varteras
Gold Member
Lol no worriesWent right over my head
struggler_guts
Member
Oh they aren't underdogs anymore, their team quadrupled in size to 400+ during the dev of BG3 and once it's fully released everyone will know that Larian is top dog
Last Hearth
Member
POE is not a innovative game. It's just a copy of the IE games from the late 90s. It plays exactly the same except for a different set of combat rules, it's still RTWP combat, the dialogue system is exactly the same, there is no new interactivity with the environment. It's mostly nostalgia bait. Larian actually is one of the few developers that is doing innovative game play within the RPG genre.
Last Hearth
Member
Dead corpses can't notice anything.
Red5
Member
Yeah but that didn't stop them from being good games, played and finished POE twice, not innovative but it was never billed as innovative since the main kickstarter drive was for it being a continuation of the IE games from Bioware and Black Isle and the fans got what they asked for. I found the story and characters to be better written than BG2 too, Chris Avellone and Tom Sawyer wrote better stories than Bioware, but Bioware had the overall better package.
Fuz
Banned
And that's why they're great games.
John Bilbo
Member
But will you or will you not play this game for a moral reason?
Last Hearth
Member
But without innovation, every game is just more of the same and eventually consumer interest fades, people were at first very interested because they haven't seen an IE game in more than a decade. But as the IE revival happened in the mid 2010's to late 2010s, nobody tried to do anything different than what's already been done, and eventually the consumer got tired of the same old same old.
Obsidian choose not to innovate.
Warablo
Member
Not only that, but felt like the lip sync was better than most games despite having so much quests.
Spaceman292
Banned
Even if Bioware wanted to emulate it, they just don't have the talent anymore. Pretty certain that the next Mass Effect and Dragon Age are gonna suck hard.
Guilty_AI
Member
I sincerely hope devs steer away from rdr2 as an example of a good 3rd person action game
Guilty_AI
Member
Well, its definitely better than Forspoken
Mister Wolf
Gold Member
Well, its definitely better than Forspoken
It's early access incarnation is better than Forspoken.
Spaceman292
Banned
Ummm... Actually, making good games is problematic and you should kinda stop it, y'all, yikes....... Not a good look......
captainpat
Member
Not really seeing an issue with their point. A lot of game devs don't have the budget and manpower to make a game like BG3 is not really a spicy take.
Guilty_AI
Member
Problem is, some of the devs saying this do work for studios that have both the manpower and budget for it. We're talking people from Insomniac, Obsidian and Blizzard here.
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No game in the entire industry has got close to Witcher 3 period. This game was and still is a miracle
kiphalfton
Member
These fuckers complaining have been resting on their laurels for way too long. Assuming they were even good to begin with.
All I can say is "Git gud, and stop bitching".
To give them slack is to accept mediocrity, and nobody should be doing that (especially when paying for it).
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Larian's THE only crpg dev who respects their console audience so its no surprise these devs lacking integrity to begin with would make these kinda comments. Most crpgs are broken beyond repair and feel like scams on console, not even getting half the care, updates, and features of the PC.
I'm glad they're getting embarassed
I'm glad they're getting embarassed
Wildebeest
Member
It is impossible to make a RTWP game that is as good as a well-designed turn based one. Especially now when people expect characters to have way more feats and activatable abilities than 2E DnD. Making a RTWP party based CRPG is just going for people with nostalgia for the golden age of RTS games, or people with absolutely no patience for combat systems who just want it to be easy and over in the blink of an eye.
EDMIX
Member
? I'm hype for Baldur's Gate 3 too, but holy shit, stop attacking other teams cause you like a game....
Thats like me loving GT7 (good ass game btw) and saying some shit like Forza series is a "cAsH gRaBz" cause they release a lot of them, they are also of great quality, score highly and I'm sure those teams work really fucking hard to those games out, but I do not try to praise PD, by attacking Turn 10 or Playground games or something weird like that.
I don't see anything from Assassin's Creed that is "cash grab" regarding their releases, the fact that they even have teams the size of 700, 2000, 3000 etc shows their deep investment into those releases in the first place, if it was a fucking "cash grab" wouldn't they have shorter development times, less people working on the game etc? So I don't see enough to make that point and I'm sure we can praise what Larian Games, without attacking other development teams as if they are not working on hard on Assassins Creed games.
lolz doubt.
1. Assassin's Creed first semi-RPG started development years before Witcher 3 ever released.
2. Ubisoft has been doing open world games for GENERATIONS before CDRP even did 1 for your comment to ever really make sense.
3. Exactly what was copied? As in, what did Witcher 3 do, that was never done before in any other open world game, that Ubisoft copied or something? lol
I don't really care if someone likes one game over the other, I bought the whole Witcher series day 1, ironically the AC RPGs I bought years after release and will buy Baldur's Gate 3 day 1, I'm sorry but I don't see that those AC RPGs are lessor or copied anything from Witcher 3, that didn't already exist regarding open world titles.
It'd kinda be like saying Star Wars Outlaws is coping No Man Sky cause they go into space and to different planets and explore (ignoring completely that is genre focused and has been a thing since before gaming, thus would make sense to be in a video game).
So AC IV released clearly years before Witcher 3, it would be like me saying Witcher 3 is copying AC, as in now its open world, ohhh now he can swim under water, thus they MUST have copied AC IV
So using the above examples, I'm sure can see how someone might think one team is copying the other team....if you never played ACIV or other Ubisoft titles, it means you'd play Witcher 3, see AC Origins or some other AC RPG title and assume some of those elements where copied from Witcher 3, when they have existed in some form in Ubisoft titles prior.
So I'm not here to tell you Ubisoft invented Swimming and CDPR copied them....I'm telling you a shit ton of those elements have existed before and AC being an open world RPG was happening before Witcher 3 ever released...., by publisher that has been doing open world games since before CDPR was even a team, that sounds reasonable that those elements make sense in AC regardless of Witcher 3's existence.
So I'm 99.9% sure we can respect what Larian Games is doing, without trying to disrespect or belittle other developers.
cripterion
Member
Bioware is dead and Obsidian kinda sucks nowadays.
EDMIX
Member
lol maybe.
I don't think this game doing well will do much regarding Bioware as I don't think their goal was to make a bad game or something. So I never get the whole "wake the team up" or "take notice" etc, I don't fucking think Bioware is just NOT WANTING to make a good game, in their minds they think they have a good game, it wasn't that good.
The end. lol
I think its really as simple as that.
Obsidian is really hit or miss, I can't say sucks as they are still better then most tbh, but they still have their own issues, but still a cut above most development teams regarding RPGs. As in, I don't most of us will have an issue with Pillar's Of Eternity 3 or something, that sounds like a day 1 for lots of RPG fans. So lots of hit or miss sure, I don't know if I can say they suck lol
We have teams launching games with zero AI lol
cartman414
Member
Just because it isn't one of your AAA walking simulators?
balls of snow
Member
Lol, witcher 3 revelation was sidequests actually giving the same quality as the main quest. Like really, almost every single big AAA open world rpg has to give pittance to cdpr if all is fair in the world. From Sony's Horizon to Ass Creed franchise to the upcoming Fable.
I have played and finished every mainline ass creed game and prior to origins, the sidequests in ubi games were
* Collectibles.
* Doing shit for darwin or some other historical figure. It was rote and not once memorable. Literally just a cameo.
In origins, Bayek gets to plunder pyramids (optional) which was more involved than anything pre-origins. Even had a whole secret izu plot if you plunder them all. Another memorable quest was helping out a friend which betrayed Bayek (main quests) and you do the typical assassin thing. But then you get to comfort the kids (optional) and then in the expansion even confront the son out for revenge for his father (optional).
In odyssey, the island where you had to choose between two rebel factions (optional) was a highlight and very witcher 3 like. Fighting mythical beasts (optional) where you had to investigate the area and ask around instead of going to a place and fight. Kassandra actually having dialogue options with similar fonts to witcher 3 dialogue system is also damn dead give away.
Ubisodt copied cdpr. 100 out of 100 gamers who play both will say the same.
EDMIX
Member
yea...none of that is exclusive to Witcher 3 though....
sooo nothing is what you are saying?
So this whole "choose between two rebel factions" is like saying those games are copying Fallout New Vegas or Fallout 3 or Skyrim like Stormcloaks or Imperials...as someone that loves RPGs sir, you are not talking about a new concept. Even playing Witcher 3, its not like i'm saying "ooooh snap bro, Witcher 3 is copying SKYRIM, choosing between 2 factions, that is very Skyrim like"
that is in many RPGs.
If anything, you merely highlighted that maybe you didn't play enough of those RPGs to know it wasn't a new concept invented by CDPR.
So I can now see a bit more clearly on why you think AC is copying Witcher 3, it sounds you may have not know those concepts are not really new. Even then, its like I'm telling you they are copying Elder Scrolls, those ideas exist in RPGs, its not something only 1 team made EVER in history or something.
Those are common place in RPGs...
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The new AC games definitely feel very Witcher-y. Origins was amazing though. Probably my second favorite AC game behind Black Flag. Odyssey was decent.
Valhalla was so damn long that I quit playing it after like 60 hours and still had over half the map left to unlock and each region felt like it had the same Go meet person/people > help them > they join you formula and it just felt repetitive. Like I was just doing the same exact thing over and over again but with a different story each time.
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balls of snow
Member
Witcher 3 made it mainstream, blind as you are with cdpr hate, it really did change open world rpg. Skyrim was a sandbox rpg or are we equating skyrim and ac origins, ie can I pick an apple in origins and put it in Alexandria and will the apple still be there.
If fallout new vegas was such a revelation in the mainstream why then did ubisoft not made ac3 like fallout new vegas. Why then only after 2015 do we get these big rpgs with a guy/girl on a horse exploring a big horizontal play area with lots of talking and dialogue choices.
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balls of snow
Member
Same it was too much. Also, was dissapointed there was not a big sprawling city like Athens or Sparta in Valhalla. Historically accurate but damn brown and boring.
EDMIX
Member
? You went from the copied them to they made it mainstream
It sounds like you just didn't know those elements existed before...
If you love or hate any IP is irrelevant to what we are saying. To say someone copied something, objectively tell us what was invented by them, that was done by Ubisoft. That has nothing to do with if you love or hate either game, its something you can find, show evidence of, give an example of etc.
So...the point being made isn't that Skyrim is like AC Origins, its that an element in that game, existed before, thus makes sense in other RPGs, it was not to compare them 1.1 directly as it sounds like you are confused on what is being compared. That was merely to show you choosing between 2 factions isn't a new concept in gaming...
Irrelevant.
The point was never that it was some MAASSSSSIVE idea, it was merely that it existed in games before.
1. That is completely false as we had open world RPGs before 2015
2. Having MORE open world RPGs during that generation also had to do with both PS4 and XONE having Bluray for more storage
I don't know what to tell you mean, nothing you've presented is evidence that this team invented any of those ideas to then say someone copied them...
StereoVsn
Member
I mean these are small indie companies like Sony, MS and Activision (soon to be MS).
It's bullshit to excuse their own incompetence. Sawyer especially should not be saying anything here.
balls of snow
Member
1) Well yeah witcher 3 made it mainstream that ubi (and sony) poured money copying a big 100 hour western rpgs with shiton of handcrafted sidequests. They saw how much it was selling and wanted the same.
2) I very well know of beth games having 100 hours each in fallout 3 and skyrim back in the day and they are their own beast. Nobody copied them really because nobody thought they could make money out of it. Or they like this topic with baldurs gate 3, thought beth games were outliers. Hello there, witcher 3 showing what an indie studio could do.
3) Can you definitively say that without witcher 3's influence and reach we would have the exact same assassins creed game as we have now.
EDMIX
Member
I don't see any evidence of this, you have yet to prove anyone copied anyone or that CDPR invented those ideas.
AC Origins started development in 2013....before the release of Witcher 3 and lots of the elements even in Origins, are already in other AC titles and other open world Ubisoft titles.
Horizon Zero Dawn started development in 2011.
You literally went from "copied" to "made it mainstream" the moment all those examples started to disprove your whole argument.
Yup, that is basically my point. Ubisoft did open world games for generations, AC Origin's started development years before Witcher 3's release and those elements already exist in open world RPGs.... So their shift to making AC a huge open world RPG started before Witcher 3 released.
So I'm sure Witcher 3 has influenced a lot, but I don't see enough to claim some of those titles copied them, when they literally were in development eons before Witcher 3 even released.
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balls of snow
Member
Origins started 2014, was delayed a year too and came out 2017. Our disagreement is semantics then. Copied here i would replace with influenced then. As in, without witcher 3 the landscape of big AAA open world game would be very different as it would be influenced by a different game at the time.
EDMIX
Member
Origins to my understanding starts development after AC IV and was likely started far before that with the writers, artist etc. I agree our disagreement is semantics.
It remains debatable if Witcher 3's influence effect those games already in development. I think a lot of the big open world AAA titles, you'd still see come out.
So we already had these types of titles and it would be hard to pin point where that influence would be exactly. We have open world before, we had them as RPGs most times, mounts, dialogs trees etc.
So BG3 having any of those elements could merely be based on them being genre norms as oppose to a direct influence of Witcher 3 or something and AC Red having those elements very well could be based on how Ubisoft has done many, many past open world games. I'm not saying zero influence exist from that game, merely its hard to prove when those elements have existed before Witcher 3, sometimes even by the very teams that we are talking about.
So If BG3 or Dragon Age IV or Elder Scrolls VI or Pillar's Of Eternity 3 or AC Red have a faction to choose from, in a huge open world, riding horses, how do we know they choose to do that cause Witcher 3, when those very same developers choose to do those elements in their games before Witcher 3? It would be like making it sound like Todd Howards having horses in Elder Scrolls VI is because Witcher 3 and not because he already did that in a past title himself.
So i'm sure CDPR was influenced by many teams to make that game and in turn will influence other teams, but some of theses teams that are established might be doing this cause they originally felt it made sense in their past titles, not cause they saw Witcher 3.
Hibs
Member
What the fuck is this bullshit? Fuck you and stop making shitty games.
Even if you don't have the budget or employee numbers, you can still create good written characters, and a story to go along with it. Yet this seems an impossibility these days. Even AAA devs bombing left and right.
The talent in the industry these days is definitely lacking.
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